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Re: Seeking Sophia/Dottie

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  • dottie zold
    ... I agree. Yet, I feel compelled to call Sophia s voice forward from those who have experienced Her Essense. (I like caps, again) Bradford: I consider this
    Message 1 of 20 , May 1, 2004
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      > Sometimes you press the patience of Job.

      I agree. Yet, I feel compelled to call Sophia's voice forward from
      those who have experienced Her Essense. (I like caps, again)

      I consider this gas balloon
      > of feeling life, unpenetrated by Michael thought, swirling in a
      > Burka of dervish Godhead reverie, nothing to do with the grounded
      > nature of Spiritual Science.

      And that is fine. But if you knew Sophia like I know Sophia, a song
      in there somewhere:) you would know it has to do directly with the
      streams of Gnostics, Rosicruicians, Anthroposophia specifically. And
      Michael, being the mightiest son of Sophia, according to Mr.
      Prokofieff, mediates this offering in possibly the same manner as was
      when He was the countanence of the OT and that of the NT. I like the
      trio of ChristMichaelSophia and that is how I experience them almost
      as One in a sense.

      And if we look at this oneness it seems, and I am not sure I
      completely can state it from Dr.Steiners Isis Sophia Maria book, it
      it because they come from the same lineage of the star the Gnostics
      were able to experience. If we completely get past the historic
      aspects of the Golgatha event and contemplate on that which was
      before the beginning Dr. Steiner says we come to a star and from this
      star is the lineage of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and Sophia.

      I am of the Gnostic stream Bradford as was Jacob Boehme, Soliviev and
      others. I do not only get the physical word of it, although I am not
      able to express it back to you, but I get the beginningness and that
      is why I am at home in left field so to speak. My intuitions lead
      directly to the spirit connections and I 'feel' them or experience
      them. And it is not like you, and it is not better than you but it is
      different than your way. I am learning to get it your way are you
      learning to get it my way? I ask as you are committed that one can
      not experience the Godhead and Sophia and so forth, yet you are aware
      that we are working towards Spirit Man. No matter how far off this
      may be the seeds have been sown and are sprouting here and there. Not
      just in words but also in Intuition and Inspiration.

      I don't expect I am worthy for personal
      > interviews with the godhead.

      It's not an interview Bradford. It's an experience without words
      without thought just love and bliss. So much so that ones body caves
      in almost as this happens or at least it seems to as the body does
      not seem capable of handling that kind of bliss, almost as if the
      spirit must leave it in order for the vibration or whatever it is
      that happens to it. I don't think the spirit can stay in the body and
      experience the Godhead. So no interview.

      Let me express it bluntly. Not one of
      > us here is worthy of getting personal interviews with the godhead.

      No interviews.

      > Steiner has presented the facts of why this so and with these fact
      > we should be able to pin-point our own developmental positions. It
      > is called Self Knowledge.

      And it is different for each of us. Although those on a similar path
      will experience possibly similar moments of recognition. Are you
      saying that Dr. Steiner says all of us are unable to experience
      living within the Godhead? As well can you please direct me towards
      the lecture where he speaks of such a thing. I realize we are
      watching out for deception and so forth and must always however this
      does not negate the experiences of those that have experienced this.
      It almost reminds me of my born again Christian friends who say that
      any vision or inspiration I came across must be from the devil,
      deception, as only certain people, particulary Priests of the church.
      Male priests.

      Feel Sophia inside you? You don't even know what this feeling is.

      Actually Bradford, it is you who has no idea what this feeling is or
      you would have recognized it within me. You did not and do not. And
      you do not even think it possible. How do you suppose she can enter
      into the recesses of your heart when you deny Her so? It is not
      possible. She will keep walking the streets looking in vein for those
      who dare to have a real relationship with her.

      Not only do I know this feeling, I have seen Her. And it is the most
      awespiring vision one can have just about. It is exactly as Deborah
      posted earlier. I posted about it at the Ark a few years back. Which
      is interesting for me as I read your posts on different points of
      Soliviev and so forth as I came to this a few years back. I was not
      able to put it in words but come to it I did. I almost feel as if I
      am watching the world catch up to what I found while seeking abouts
      the Ark.

      For you it has swirled around Magadalene as the true Core of Reality,

      Bradford, it is the stream Magdalene represents. And you should know
      that by now with all your talk. Mabye if you decided to sense into
      Magdalene versus talking about her and explicating her you might
      understand and then if you are open enough she leads you to Sophia.

      She is the daughter representation of Sophia. She is the
      representative of Anthroposophia no matter how backwards that may
      sound. And if you look to see you will know of what I speak. She is
      not soley the Virgin Mother or Mother Mary. She is the three in one
      and Magdalene is included in this. I can not do anything to make it
      so, it is by itself. And a further mystery shall show itself before I
      pass from this life. I do not know by whom but I know it will be

      And she is not core, she is of the trinity. She is a part of the
      core. Just as Jesus was inhabited so was Magdalene.

      as the one the Father truly loves and Christ
      > adores more than others because of her sterling feeling life.

      Wrong. The Father loves all. The Father isn't even anyway in the
      manner you speak. I do not say the Father loved her more than the
      others. I say Jesus loved her more than the others and it is clear in
      the Nag Hammadi. And it is not like a love as we experience rather it
      is a love because she understood Him not because of any other thing.
      The love was unto the enlightment not the physical kind of love. The
      kiss was the sharing of knowledge not the physical kiss. Would you
      deny that she knew more than the others? Can you? Who knew more in
      your mind? And no it was not a Lazarus. And she knew before even a
      Lazarus was spoken of.

      And I
      > happen to love Magdalene's myth and more connect this to the
      > greatness of Corelli.

      It is not a myth it is a happening.

      > If you have followed Frank's wonderful translation of Myriam, such
      > gutsy fighter, certainly, must past through many trials of soul
      > before she can Swirl in Divine Sentimentality.

      What is Divine Sentimentality? And of course, just like
      the 'stepmother' or as the stepmother, she brought these from the
      lives past and transformed them at this particular point in time. And
      in all actuallity I believe they were already transformed before this
      particular point in time. That it was a living out for the witnessing
      of the Christs descent.

      It has been avoided just as many times. Read my lips. Endocrine

      Bradford, I don't understand your point on this. Maybe others do and
      then I would wonder if they did why they did not say something.

      > Pineal and Pituitary endorphins and swirly feelings with out
      > directed conscious intuition is not Michael School method.

      If you are referring to me and this 'swirly feeling' thing I have to
      say this is not my experience. It is very grounded. It was denied
      many times till I finally came to understand what was happening and
      was able to see how it was all laying out before me, including
      Christian Rosenkrutz. And I am watching it little by little come

      And I care not a whit for our understandings of Michael School method
      as if you are the say all be all to this point. Michael works in many
      ways and his ways are not our ways. You would have no idea with whom
      he works and how. I care not a whit for your claims on this.

      And now I ask for your Michael experiences Bradford. For one who
      writes much I ask very little. Just look inside your heart and bring
      them out. And if you come back to me one more time with 'oh your
      swirly dervish fishy whatever I will say again your silence speaks

      > leads feeling that is POF 101.

      And what lead thought Bradford? What is it that leads thought? Whose
      are we Bradford? Whose?

      God doesn't come down, this over used
      > phrase by every fundie, god doesn't come down and talk to you or
      > George Bush.

      God manifests Itself all the time. Messages are sent and are seen
      everywhere by those who can see them and hear them. Even Christ says
      for those who have ears to hear, hear ye, and those who have eyes to
      see, see ye. God does speak to us Bradford even through the ants in
      Hindu literature. We are not speaking of 'Dottie, stop picking on
      Peter and Tarjei'. So, if this is what you are envisioning of my
      meaning you are not correct.

      > mentioned recently that the Angels are working feverishling against
      > the Ahrimanic Deception... good grief.

      Yeah yea yeah Bradford. Me and Ahriman are hanging out together with
      Sophia and Michael having a few buds.(beer) You sound just like a
      fundie with the judgement on who can have the Sophia experience and
      God experience. Christ JEsus told us we are children of God and he is
      our Father. And my take is the body aspect but then again I know that
      gets me in trouble but the Doctor alludes to this as well if not
      coming straight out and saying it.

      Ahriman is not hanging out in my house Bradford. It seems you are the
      one who went and bought the lie that you can not have these
      experiences I am talking about. Hmmm.

      Standing before such a
      > lecture like "The Angels Work in the Astral body of Man" or
      > following the participation of the Angel in placing a human soul in
      > Language and Nurturing, Mothering, and Nurturing the Child through
      > their destiny...Angel-Angel-Angel.

      And who is the Angel working for Brad? Anyone we know? Whew.

      > To actually hear what you refuse to hear over and over again is
      > for Christ to bear the Father God, he was terribly alone as his
      > entire bone system was infused, as the Seraphim, Cherubim and
      > Thrones shivered their fire into the prepared condition of TWO
      > INITIATES and an ELOHIM.

      What the hell are you talking about? I won't hear this? Says who?

      That ain't us. Let's get real around here.

      Yup, your a fundie of a different nature it seems. You will block the
      door but not enter. Go through the door Brad experience your
      birthright as a child of God.

      > Holy Ghost, as well as ANGEL-Archangel-Archai is a part of those
      > Tongues of inspired flame you are hoping will leap out of poets
      > hearts and minds, the minute you mention that you are the true
      > of Sophia on Earth.

      Nope. Not it. I was just wanting to inspire you to share your Sophia
      experience so we could meet one another. That's all. I melt when I
      hear others who speak on her.

      And I do not really know what you mean by saying 'one is a true flame
      of Sophia'...what do you mean by this. Do you think I am claiming I
      am one with Sophia or whathave you? I am in the service of Michael,
      Brad, and Christ. It is Sophia I am seeking in consequence of this. I
      found Christ, Michael and now Sophia. It just deepens my life and
      allows me to keep deepening it and hopefully till the time it is for
      me to go back home.

      Lets ask Mike our resident shrink? He is used to handling
      > tough cases, his own biography has been a tough case, but I do
      > admire his realism.

      Hmm. Do you know my biography Bradford? And if you did or even take
      in a few of the things I mentioned on the Ark you would have a pretty
      good idea how it is that Christ came to me and why it is that I am
      able to experience Him in the manner I have shared before. I am that
      reverent child that Dr. Steiner speaks of in How To Know Higher
      Worlds. He spoke my life experiences as that which is needed to
      experience the higher worlds. I have not experienced the higher
      worlds per se, I have however experienced Christ Michael and Sophia.

    • dottie zold
      ... Dear Braford, last night I could not find a way to express why it was that I continue to press the question at times. And this morning I remembered the
      Message 2 of 20 , May 2, 2004
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        > > Sometimes you press the patience of Job.

        Dear Braford, last night I could not find a way to express why it was
        that I continue to press the question at times. And this morning I
        remembered the 'feeling' of when I first posed the question: I
        experienced a longing for Sophia to 'experience' our seeking Her out.
        It became a sob in my throat to show Her our love and in that I asked
        the question.

        I remember being on the Ark and experiencing Her there, and, Her
        almost seeking others out. And at times I would almost feel like I
        had the biggest secret in the whole world that wanted to be shared.
        But there were no takers. Well, that is wrong, there was Harvey,
        Catherine, Danny and Charlie for the most part and Stevie Zimm. And
        for the most part I did not know how to express it. It was Catherine
        that was able to slowly encourage it out of me. I mean I did not even
        know that Dr. STeiners group was the initiative for this Sophia: the
        hope of the world. I remember Catherine asking the question of our
        Angel of sorts or maybe it was Jerry but the point was the discussion
        of whom we felt guided America or even the Arks existance. I recall
        Catherines comments about her Angel in a sense and I remember this
        distinct feeling it was Sophia, and I did not even know Her then. But
        the beauty of what Catherine brought was that I realized I did indeed
        have this connection with this Sophia, whatever she has to do with
        Dr. STeiner,but I did not understand it until she fully showed
        herself to me. And whoa that is a big one. But She is still a small
        one in the Anthroposophic stream it seems so far. Maybe it's because,
        as a few people have mentioned, this is not the time. But that is not
        true for all of us.

        So, it was with a longing from within me to share with Sophia how
        much we love Her and seek Her. It wasn't about showing 'hey I am a
        flame or whathave you of Sophia, it was for Her. But I guess you did
        not get that.

      • Jo Ann Schwartz
        ... Dear Bradford, Well, no doubt you are correct, sir. There is [n]ot one of us here worthy of getting personal interviews with the godhead. And yet... And
        Message 3 of 20 , May 2, 2004
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          --- Bradford wrote:
          > I don't expect I am worthy for personal
          > interviews with the godhead. Let me express it bluntly. Not one of
          > us here is worthy of getting personal interviews with the godhead.
          > Steiner has presented the facts of why this so and with these fact
          > we should be able to pin-point our own developmental positions. It
          > is called Self Knowledge.

          Dear Bradford,

          Well, no doubt you are correct, sir. There is "[n]ot one of us here worthy of
          getting personal interviews with the godhead."

          And yet...
          And yet....

          Is there no room in your spiritual science for the mystery of Grace?

          In wonder,

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        • holderlin66
          ... Grace? ... Well as my dear brother, Bruce Almighty said to George Burns, say Good Night Gracie . Great Gracie was at bat, Michael School 3; Legion 23:
          Message 4 of 20 , May 2, 2004
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            Jo Ann Schwartz wrote:

            > Is there no room in your spiritual science for the mystery of
            > In wonder,
            > JoAnn

            Well as my dear brother, "Bruce Almighty" said to George Burns, "say
            Good Night Gracie". Great Gracie was at bat, Michael School 3;
            Legion 23: It was the 5th Inning and Gracie came to bat. Infield
            hits, bunts, and too many outs, nobody on base. I always liked the
            underdawgs. Well if we see our team work shared over the globe, with
            our shabby little RS hats, old mitts, worn out cleats..I guess it's
            the only team I would root for. But then I'm a Lord of the Rings

            While our fully funded flashy Corporate opponents all look like
            Cheshire cats: Say, JoAnn, just thinking outloud here, if we had
            roughly 700 semi-functioning Waldorf Schools and various other
            Anthro works over the globe, what do we think the estimated budgets
            of all those striving works amount to in relation to, let say the
            following examples?

            700 X $100,000.00 or $200,000.00. Another say, 200 centers, with
            maybe $25,000.00..What is our rough global budget? Now, who can
            measure grace against the numbers? I am curious just what the bottom
            line, might look like. Plus the investment of thousands and
            thousands of hearts, who with child or hope in hand call out for
            Divine Aid. Call forth with their incarnation and their children's
            incarnations, new schools, teachers and salaries.

            THE OTHER GUYS:

            "The military-academic complex is merely one of many readily
            perceptible, but largely ignored, examples of the increasing
            militarization of American society. While the Pentagon has long
            sought to exploit and exert influence over civilian cultural
            institutions, from academia to the entertainment industry, today's
            massive budgets make its power increasingly irresistible. The
            Pentagon now has both the money and the muscle to alter the
            landscape of higher education, to manipulate research agendas, to
            change the course of curricula and to force schools to play by its

            Moreover, the military research underway on college campuses across
            America has very real and dangerous implications for the future. It
            will enable or enhance imperial adventures in decades to come; it
            will lead to new lethal technologies to be wielded against peoples
            across the globe; it will feed a superpower arms race of one, only
            increasing the already vast military asymmetry between the United
            States and everyone else; it will make ever-more heavily armed,
            technologically-equipped, and "up-armored" U.S. war-fighters ever
            less attractive adversaries and American and allied civilians much
            more appealing soft targets for America's enemies. None of this,
            however, enters the realm of debate. Instead, the Pentagon rolls
            along, doling out money to colleges large and small, expanding and
            strengthening the military-academic complex, and remaking civilian
            institutions to suit military desires as if this were but the
            natural way of the world."


            "In 1958, the Department of Defense spent an already impressive $91
            million in support of "academic research." By 1964, the sum had
            reached $258 million and by 1970, in the midst of the Vietnam War,
            $266 million. By 2003, however, any of these numbers, or even their
            $615 million total, was dwarfed by the Pentagon's prime contract
            awards to just two schools, the Massachusetts Institute of
            Technology and Johns Hopkins University which, together, raked in a
            combined total of $842,437,294.

            War-Making U or U Make War?

            As it turns out, the military and the Department of Defense (DoD)
            have an entire system of education and training institutions and
            organizations of their own, including the many schools of the
            National Defense University system (NDU): the National War College,
            the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, the School for National
            Security Executive Education, the Joint Forces Staff College, and
            the Information Resources Management College as well as the Defense
            Acquisition University, the Joint Military Intelligence College --
            open only to "U.S. citizens in the armed forces and in federal
            civilian service who hold top secret/SCI (Sensitive Compartmented
            Information) clearances" -- the Defense Language Institute Foreign
            Language Center, the Naval Postgraduate School, the Naval War
            College, Air University, the Air Force Institute of Technology, the
            Marine Corps University and the Uniformed Services University of the
            Health Sciences, among others. In fact, scholar Chalmers Johnson has
            noted in his new book on American militarism, The Sorrows of Empire,
            that there are approximately 150 military-educational institutions
            in the U.S.

            While the service academies train a youthful corps of tomorrow's
            military officers, enrolled in the schools of the National Defense
            University are a group of selected commissioned officers, with
            approximately 20 years of service, and civilian officials from
            various agencies, including the Department of Defense, who are
            schooled in a curriculum that emphasizes "the development and
            implementation of national security strategy and military strategy,
            mobilization, acquisition, management of resources, information and
            information technology for national security, and planning for joint
            and combined operations." Further, good old' NDU sustains the golden-
            triangle military agencies, the high technology industry, and
            research universities by "promot[ing] understanding and teamwork
            among the Armed Forces and between those agencies of the Government
            and industry that contribute to national security." To this end, the
            school also opens spots to "industry fellows" from the private
            sector who, says NDU president and Air Force Lt. Gen. Michael M.
            Dunn, "bring ideas from industry to the Defense Department."

            The power of the Pentagon extends beyond an ability to frame or
            dictate research goals to significant parts of our civilian
            education establishment. Higher education's dependence on federal
            dollars empowers the DoD to bend universities ever more easily to
            its will. For example, as Chalmers Johnson notes, until August 2002,
            Harvard Law School "managed to bar recruiters for the Judge Advocate
            General's Corps of the military because qualified students who wish
            to serve are rejected if they are openly gay, lesbian or bisexual."
            However, thanks to a quick reinterpretation of federal law, the
            Pentagon found itself able to threaten Harvard with a loss of all
            its federal university funding, some $300 billion, if its law school
            denied access to military recruiters. Unable to fathom life ripped
            from the federal teat, Harvard caved, ushering in a new era of
            dwindling academic autonomy and growing military control of the

            The NSA, however, has to share the spotlight with a host of other
            military, militarized, or intelligence agencies and subagencies when
            it comes to the military-academic action The credo of the Army
            Research Laboratory (ARL) in Adelphi, Maryland, for instance,
            is "delivering science and technology solutions to the warfighter"
            which it strives to do by "put[ting] the best and brightest to work
            solving the [Army's] problems" by employing "a variety of funding
            mechanisms to support and exploit programs at universities and
            industry." The Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR) is
            also high on "University relationships" that provide it with "an
            excellent recruitment resource for high-caliber graduate and
            undergraduate students." Its SPAWAR Systems Center in Charleston,
            S.C, alone, has cooperative agreements with Clemson University, the
            University of South Carolina, The Citadel, the College of
            Charleston, Old Dominion University, North Carolina State
            University, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, the University of Central
            Florida and North Carolina A & T State University."
          • holderlin66
            God save America ... The race for the White House will be decided by fundagelicals. That s good news for twice-born George Bush John Sutherland Monday May 3,
            Message 5 of 20 , May 3, 2004
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              God save America ...

              The race for the White House will be decided by fundagelicals.
              That's good news for twice-born George Bush

              John Sutherland
              Monday May 3, 2004
              The Guardian

              The word "fundagelism" has never appeared in the columns of this
              newspaper. The term is, however, current in the blogosphere - that
              cyberforum which nowadays carries the most interestingly paranoid
              political debate. "Fundagelism" is not a word that trips easily off
              the tongue. It's a crunching together of the even more mouth-
              boggling compound "fundamentalist evangelism".
              George W Bush is a fundagelist. Dad wasn't. George H Bush (not
              renowned for his Wildean wit) delivered his most memorable wisecrack
              on walking into a room full of fundagelists: "Gee! I'm the only
              person here that's only been born once."

              His son is truly twice born, with two dads. Nor are the parents
              equal in the eyes of their son. The journalist Bob Woodward, as he
              recalls, asked the current president if he ever turned to the ex-
              president for help. "Well, no," replied Bush Jr: "He is the wrong
              father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal
              to in terms of strength. There's a higher father that I appeal to."

              There are, it is estimated, 90 million evangelical Christians in the
              US. If they can be mobilised, they will form a rock-solid foundation
              for November victory for the Republican incumbent. Chads need hang
              no more.

              Of course, not all American evangelicals are fundagelicals any more
              than all Muslims are Islamic extremists. But lukewarm evangelicals
              (like the Islamists) are more likely to vote for their own kind -
              even if extremist - than the opposition.

              What do fundagelicals instinctively oppose? Gay marriage, abortion,
              gun control, taxes, the UN (and the currently top-rated candidate
              for anti-Christ, Kofi Annan), withdrawal from Iraq, Michael Moore,
              Janet Jackson's left breast.

              What do they believe in? Christian values and the future as foretold
              in the Book of Revelation. According to a Time Magazine poll (which
              strains credulity but seems to be valid) 59% of Americans trust that
              St John's prophecies will be fulfilled - probably during their
              lifetime. November could be a last opportunity to vote for God's
              preferred candidate. Iraq (ancient Babylon) figures centrally in the
              fundagelist vision of things, as does the Rapture, and the imminent
              mass conversion of the Jews (hence fundagelist-Zionism).

              The White House has recently been accused of inveighing (via Nasa)
              against the movie The Day After Tomorrow (out on May 28) because it
              narrates the wrong apocalypse. One caused by man-made global
              warming, that is, rather than God's white-hot rage against sinners.
              The apocalypse depicted in Tim LaHaye's Left Behind books is, we
              assume, the US government-approved version.

              Fundagelism presents problems for the Democratic party as it girds
              itself for the coming campaign. John Kerry is a Catholic. A former
              altar boy, he is (to the irritation of Catholic bishops) in favour
              of women's reproductive rights. Last week Naral Pro-Choice America,
              the country's leading lobby for legal abortion, endorsed Kerry's

              Kerry so-called. Until a couple of years ago, the Democratic front-
              runner was assumed to be as Boston Irish as his namesake county.
              Newspaper sleuthing discovered that his paternal grandfather was, in
              fact, a Czech, Fritz Kohn, who changed his name. Kerry lost
              relatives in the Holocaust. Race-hate websites nowadays routinely
              abuse him as "Kerry (Kohn aka Cohen)". Famously, Kerry is a
              decorated Vietnam war hero who, like Siegfried Sassoon, threw his
              medals away in disgust at what he came to see as a futile colonial

              Was ever a candidate for the presidency more triangulated? Pro-
              choice Catholic, Shamrock-Jewish, warrior-pacifist? In any rational
              contest, to be all things to all voters should be an advantage. But
              with fundagelism riding high, Kerry looks 110% flip-flop.

              Last Thursday, the American PBS network ran a programme The Jesus
              Factor. It made (for Democrats and, dare one say it, democrats)
              depressing viewing. America, it suggested, is aching for certainty.
              Any certainty. Fundagelism supplies it. God help America is all I
              can say."
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