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Re: Hatred, Untruthfulness, and Alzheimer (was: "Indescribably Sad and Pathetic")

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  • ted.wrinch
    he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism and desire for personal attention Not hate as such - he s too divorced from passion for that - but
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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      "he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism and desire for personal attention"

      Not hate as such - he's too divorced from passion for that - but opposition, deep antipathy: what else would drive him to spend so many years on a subject that is academically insignificant and contains material that, apart from what he sees as its political import, he mostly regards as similar.

      "He is also obsessed alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the sense that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and esotericism, but about himself."

      We agree there. His pseudo-academic performance on WC and intellectual duelling with 'Steiner defenders'
      impresses the faithful (Diana's spent years lauding the group - who she calls 'we' - for it's supposed high standards of evidence and reasoning, supposedly in contra-distinction to those of the 'Steiner defenders'. There isn't much left of this record now :)). The avoidance of the personal in favour of 'fact debates' is an illusion, as Dennis observed, and he is as personally involved as anyone else. The undue respect they accord him feeds his self-regard and he does seem to enjoy the negative energy they create, applying little censure to the insults and excesses that go with it (early on in my time on WC, I pointed out to him that he was much more tolerant to his friends than those he opposed; he responded by claiming the opposite, in spite of all the public evidence to the contrary: no one demurred).

      T.

      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ironically, there's one particular Sugar Cherub who won't develop
      > dementia or Alzheimer or ulcers because of hate. I'm talking about PS,
      > of course, or Der Staudi if you prefer, who is a different animal from
      > the others because he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism
      > and desire for personal attention, and the passionate hatred among the
      > others serves as an energy he is feeding off. He is also obsessed
      > alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the sense
      > that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and
      > esotericism, but about himself.
      >
      > I noticed that Dennis just called PS on exactly that point, and it
      > wasn't unexpected that Dan (I don't have a code name for him yet), who
      > is usually very slow to react, quite patient, jumped in immediately with
      > an ad hom warning. The reason is very simple: From his very arrival in
      > Sugarland 11 or 12 years ago, PS has been Dan's favorite and
      > indispensable pet who is always welcomed with a red carpet VIP
      > treatment. Why? Well, it's not merely his academic pretenses. The
      > crucial reason is that prior to the arrival of PS, Dan was going solo
      > with his Nazi War Dance. Nobody else, not even the most hardcore
      > Cherubs, shared Dan's obsession with linking Steiner to Hitler and
      > anthroposophy to Nazism in those days. In this field, PS has done a
      > momentous amount of hard work that Dan could never dream of
      > accomplishing. So PS is not only Dan's pet; he's his Golden Goose, and
      > every post of his is a Golden Egg.
      >
      > So Dennis must immediately leave Dan's Golden Goose alone lest he get a
      > week on the bench. This is what that murderous madman got (who is really
      > honeysweet on the inside and ready for repentance and salvation someday,
      > just like Son of Sam and the Hillside Strangler were), which means that
      > criticizing Dan's Golden Pet is exactly as serious in his eyes as
      > threatening to kill school teachers by gutting them like fishes. And it
      > goes to show that Sune was nuked from Sugarland for calling PS a liar,
      > and I left in disgust after Dan ad home-warned me for calling a
      > statement of his a lie, although that was clearly an ad statementem and
      > not an ad hominem.
      >
      > Like I said, PS isn't likely to develop Alzheimer, for instance, for the
      > same reason as the others. He's bilingual for once, and he is obsessed
      > by personal ambition and intellectual exhibitionism rather than
      > passionate hatred. On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness,
      > especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful
      > untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause
      > Alzheimer I believe. I'm not a medical researcher, but I'm thinking of a
      > character like the late Elizabeth Claire Prophet. What PS can do to
      > counteract this danger is to learn many more languages, perhaps, but
      > that's what's expected of professional historians, so he's got his work
      > cut out for him.
      >
      > Tarjei
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
      > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Yes, that was my point about the WC denizens shortly after I joined
      > that group. The words in quotes, I expect everyone remembers, are her
      > own that she directed against me for her own bizarre reasons. It's very
      > clear from her comment this morning, and the general behaviour of
      > others, that they are "feeding [their] own animosity against what [they]
      > hate". It's not healthy and can only end in tears (or dementia - we've
      > seen that multi-language ability may help protect against it; I'm sure
      > it's only a matter of time before evidence becomes available indicating
      > that hate induces it).
      > >
      > > T.
      > >
      > > Ted Wrinch
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Yea -- what was it again? Something like, Why not celebrate and
      > promote
      > > > what you love instead of developing ulcers, high blood pressure, and
      > > > dementia by feeding your own animosity against what you hate?
      > > >
      > > > Tarjei
      > > >
      > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
      > > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Over on WC, Diana has thanked Alicia for 'getting her day off to a
      > > > great start' by pointing her to an article mocking the recent
      > creation
      > > > of homoeopathically potentised biodynamic wine glasses. What 'an
      > > > indescribably sad and pathetic' person she must be to need to
      > ridicule
      > > > others in order to make herself and her day 'great'.
      > > > >
      > > > > T.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ted Wrinch
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • elfuncle
      Our Beloved Sister has been extremely challenged by a legion of demons clinging to her soul, passionate possessive hostility against the Holy Spirit and his
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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        Our Beloved Sister has been extremely challenged by a legion of demons clinging to her soul, passionate possessive hostility against the Holy Spirit and his messenger lasting for decades, causing her to kick against the pricks day and night, even in her sleep, kicking, kicking -- even kicking her husband out of bed so hard he hit the wall because she dreamed he was an anthroposophist. She loves cats, but there was this dude once who dreamt he was kicking a cat, but there was no cat there, so instead he kicked the wall and broke his toe. Yes indeed, our Beloved Sister has been going through a lot, much suffering and many tribulations, but she's a fierce fighter, I know, and she's coming out of it on top, I can see that, because her esoteric studies are promising to pay off, although she keeps running up against obstacles, especially in terms of her own understanding: Her confusion.

        But we're here to help, aren't we? We're here to love and assist; that's what Lovathons are all about. I've been sayhing all along that our Beloved Sister ought to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad and concentrate at this stage on Biblical Christianity as a primary foundation for anthroposophical Christology and cosmology, which she may pick up again later, illumined by her Biblical studies. And I've always said she ought to focus especially on the apostle Paul: His epistles and the Book of Acts.

        The latest RS lecture she is grappling with is Lecture 9  in the cycle Theosophy of the Rosicrucian GA 099), titled Planetary Evolution 1, whi8ch she calls "really wild" and "a challenge to summarize." But in spite of her failure to understand all of it -- nobody said anthroposophy was easy! -- there's something like a spark flashing up inside her when she writes:

        "(If I'm reading this right, it suggests we will one day be gods.)"

        Christ is knocking and divinity is awakening in her! She's knocking at Heaven's Door, and Heaven is opening!

        "And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." ( -- Luke 11:9)

        "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."  ( -- Revelation 3:20-22)

        In spite of the fact that there are things in Steiner's lecture she doesn't understand, just like every seeker after truth and light is challenged by the grandeur of such magnificent complexity that boggles the mind and silences the wise, -- here is something that obviously sank in very deep:

        ' Steiner pauses to emphasize: "Take these words quite literally, as all religious documents must be taken." '

        Exactly, Sister! That's what I've been trying to tell you all along! Read the Gospels and Paul's Epistles!

        "Correspondences were also proposed to plants and minerals, but I'm afraid I lost track of that. It made no sense."

        Again, turn to the Bible, Beloved Sister.


        About plants:

        "Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." ( -- Luke 12:27)

        "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. ( -- Matthew 24:32-42)

        (Read a little Steiner, especially his lectures on the Luke Gospel, and you'll find that the fig tree corresponds to the Buddha's Bodhi tree; these two trees represent the same thing in Buddhism and Christianity. I hope it's all beginning to make sense now, just a little.


        About minerals:

        "And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out."  ( -- Luke 19:37-40)

        Now you may beginning to understand, Dear Sweet Beloved Sister, that minerals are also alive, that they also have a consciousness, just like you and I did on Ancient Saturn.

         
        Our Beloved Sister continues:

        "(As for points of discussion, all I can say is if anyone has any clue what any of this means, please let us know.)"

        What all this means, or any of it? Mysterious are the ways of the Lord, his wonders to behold, my friend. (I don't think that's in the Bible, but somebody said it once and it sounds pretty good, doesn't it?) But here's what Paul had to say about sacred mysteries for people like you desire to embark upon a path of understanding and initiation:

        "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." ( -- 1 Corinthians 13)

        As you know, Beloved Sister, charity means love in this King James translation of the Holy Scriptures. And that's what we're all about here at Anthroposophy Tomorrow: Loving you and all your fellow Sugar Cherubs just like Christ loves us all. That's why we have these Lovathons. And just like Paul says, our love for y'all suffereth long, and is kind, envieth not, vaunteth not itself, isnot puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

        To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I'm aware that the Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you because they seem to have pulled off an April Fool's joke on you, something about wine glasses. And I think you should be very happy on their behalf and rejoice at their joy and thank the gods for the opportunity of giving them such joy. Blessed is he who gives joy to others, whether it's through a simple inspired Lovathon or through the humble service of believing in a joke -- that's what April Fool's Day is all about. If you've been a fool, you've been God's fool.

        "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men." ( -- 1 Corinthians 1:25)

        Tarjei

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ironically, there's one particular Sugar Cherub who won't develop
        > dementia or Alzheimer or ulcers because of hate. I'm talking about PS,
        > of course, or Der Staudi if you prefer, who is a different animal from
        > the others because he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism
        > and desire for personal attention, and the passionate hatred among the
        > others serves as an energy he is feeding off. He is also obsessed
        > alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the sense
        > that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and
        > esotericism, but about himself.
        >
        > I noticed that Dennis just called PS on exactly that point, and it
        > wasn't unexpected that Dan (I don't have a code name for him yet), who
        > is usually very slow to react, quite patient, jumped in immediately with
        > an ad hom warning. The reason is very simple: From his very arrival in
        > Sugarland 11 or 12 years ago, PS has been Dan's favorite and
        > indispensable pet who is always welcomed with a red carpet VIP
        > treatment. Why? Well, it's not merely his academic pretenses. The
        > crucial reason is that prior to the arrival of PS, Dan was going solo
        > with his Nazi War Dance. Nobody else, not even the most hardcore
        > Cherubs, shared Dan's obsession with linking Steiner to Hitler and
        > anthroposophy to Nazism in those days. In this field, PS has done a
        > momentous amount of hard work that Dan could never dream of
        > accomplishing. So PS is not only Dan's pet; he's his Golden Goose, and
        > every post of his is a Golden Egg.
        >
        > So Dennis must immediately leave Dan's Golden Goose alone lest he get a
        > week on the bench. This is what that murderous madman got (who is really
        > honeysweet on the inside and ready for repentance and salvation someday,
        > just like Son of Sam and the Hillside Strangler were), which means that
        > criticizing Dan's Golden Pet is exactly as serious in his eyes as
        > threatening to kill school teachers by gutting them like fishes. And it
        > goes to show that Sune was nuked from Sugarland for calling PS a liar,
        > and I left in disgust after Dan ad home-warned me for calling a
        > statement of his a lie, although that was clearly an ad statementem and
        > not an ad hominem.
        >
        > Like I said, PS isn't likely to develop Alzheimer, for instance, for the
        > same reason as the others. He's bilingual for once, and he is obsessed
        > by personal ambition and intellectual exhibitionism rather than
        > passionate hatred. On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness,
        > especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful
        > untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause
        > Alzheimer I believe. I'm not a medical researcher, but I'm thinking of a
        > character like the late Elizabeth Claire Prophet. What PS can do to
        > counteract this danger is to learn many more languages, perhaps, but
        > that's what's expected of professional historians, so he's got his work
        > cut out for him.
        >
        > Tarjei
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
        > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes, that was my point about the WC denizens shortly after I joined
        > that group. The words in quotes, I expect everyone remembers, are her
        > own that she directed against me for her own bizarre reasons. It's very
        > clear from her comment this morning, and the general behaviour of
        > others, that they are "feeding [their] own animosity against what [they]
        > hate". It's not healthy and can only end in tears (or dementia - we've
        > seen that multi-language ability may help protect against it; I'm sure
        > it's only a matter of time before evidence becomes available indicating
        > that hate induces it).
        > >
        > > T.
        > >
        > > Ted Wrinch
        > >
        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Yea -- what was it again? Something like, Why not celebrate and
        > promote
        > > > what you love instead of developing ulcers, high blood pressure, and
        > > > dementia by feeding your own animosity against what you hate?
        > > >
        > > > Tarjei
        > > >
        > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
        > > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Over on WC, Diana has thanked Alicia for 'getting her day off to a
        > > > great start' by pointing her to an article mocking the recent
        > creation
        > > > of homoeopathically potentised biodynamic wine glasses. What 'an
        > > > indescribably sad and pathetic' person she must be to need to
        > ridicule
        > > > others in order to make herself and her day 'great'.
        > > > >
        > > > > T.
        > > > >
        > > > > Ted Wrinch
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >

      • elfuncle
        ... because ... behalf ... of ... One thing about the Sugar Cherubs is very sad, very tragic. They have a severe handicap: I ve been observing them now off and
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:

          > To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I'm aware that the
          > Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you because
          > they seem to have pulled off an April Fool's joke on you, something
          > about wine glasses. And I think you should be very happy on their behalf
          > and rejoice at their joy and thank the gods for the opportunity of
          > giving them such joy. Blessed is he who gives joy to others, whether
          > it's through a simple inspired Lovathon or through the humble service of
          > believing in a joke -- that's what April Fool's Day is all about. If
          > you've been a fool, you've been God's fool.
          >
          > "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of
          > God is stronger than men." ( -- 1 Corinthians 1:25)


          One thing about the Sugar Cherubs is very sad, very tragic. They have a severe handicap: I've been observing them now off and on for thirteen years, and they do indeed have a sense of humor, but this is extremely limited. They are only able to laugh or smile at the follies or misfortunes those they hate. They are totally incapable of self-irony, of laughing at themselves. That very idea seems to be completely unimaginable.

          This is a severe impediment to their striving to become genuine critical thinkers, because I've never seen a master of critical thinking who wasn't also a master of self-irony and self-depreciation. It's not only pride, it's something far more serious: The Sugar Cherubs are mentally, emotionally and spiritual handicapped because of this, and that's why they're so out of touch with reality, even the reality of jurisprudence, which is why they keep wasting time, effort, and their hard-earned money on lost lawsuits. And that maniac is now dreaming of a Nazi style night of long knives and carve up Waldorf teachers because he's approaching a wakeup call from all his babble about suing those teachers successfully for a million dollars each and that some top notch attorney should take that pipe dream case on a contingency basis of all things. They live in a fantasy world, totally divorced from reality, and this is intimately connected with their inability to laugh at their own follies and mistakes like normal people. That's why they need our compassion, our love, and our prayers and blessings.

          Tarjei
        • ted.wrinch
          To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I m aware that the Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you because they seem to
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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            "To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I'm aware that the Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you because they seem to have pulled off an April Fool's joke on you, something about wine glasses. And I think you should be very happy on their behalf and rejoice at their joy and thank the gods for the opportunity of giving them such joy."

            I know - I'm glad they're having such fun :). I only skimmed that blog, and the details they're pulling out now are rather funny. But the thing as a whole is steeped in caustic and virulent antipathy, so that, though it's an April Fool article, it's actually not so different form the normal stuff that they write. Which is why it still stands as talismanic for their general spirit of hatred, summed up by your apposite observation, with which I entirely agree:

            "They are only able to laugh or smile at the follies or misfortunes those they hate….The Sugar Cherubs are mentally, emotionally and spiritual handicapped because of this."

            You are right: this is a deep, deep impediment to them, that's obvious to anyone who's full humanity hasn't been crippled by looking at the world through a veil of antipathy for so long.

            T.

            Ted Wrinch

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I'm aware that the
            > > Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you
            > because
            > > they seem to have pulled off an April Fool's joke on you, something
            > > about wine glasses. And I think you should be very happy on their
            > behalf
            > > and rejoice at their joy and thank the gods for the opportunity of
            > > giving them such joy. Blessed is he who gives joy to others, whether
            > > it's through a simple inspired Lovathon or through the humble service
            > of
            > > believing in a joke -- that's what April Fool's Day is all about. If
            > > you've been a fool, you've been God's fool.
            > >
            > > "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of
            > > God is stronger than men." ( -- 1 Corinthians 1:25)
            >
            > One thing about the Sugar Cherubs is very sad, very tragic. They have a
            > severe handicap: I've been observing them now off and on for thirteen
            > years, and they do indeed have a sense of humor, but this is extremely
            > limited. They are only able to laugh or smile at the follies or
            > misfortunes those they hate. They are totally incapable of self-irony,
            > of laughing at themselves. That very idea seems to be completely
            > unimaginable.
            >
            > This is a severe impediment to their striving to become genuine critical
            > thinkers, because I've never seen a master of critical thinking who
            > wasn't also a master of self-irony and self-depreciation. It's not only
            > pride, it's something far more serious: The Sugar Cherubs are mentally,
            > emotionally and spiritual handicapped because of this, and that's why
            > they're so out of touch with reality, even the reality of jurisprudence,
            > which is why they keep wasting time, effort, and their hard-earned money
            > on lost lawsuits. And that maniac is now dreaming of a Nazi style night
            > of long knives and carve up Waldorf teachers because he's approaching a
            > wakeup call from all his babble about suing those teachers successfully
            > for a million dollars each and that some top notch attorney should take
            > that pipe dream case on a contingency basis of all things. They live in
            > a fantasy world, totally divorced from reality, and this is intimately
            > connected with their inability to laugh at their own follies and
            > mistakes like normal people. That's why they need our compassion, our
            > love, and our prayers and blessings.
            >
            > Tarjei
            >
          • ted.wrinch
            On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with oneself at the center of
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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              "On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause Alzheimer I believe."

              Didn't respond to to this as I think most agree on Staudi's fundamental, unremitting dishonesty. But, as I read through my last posting on his website article on three-folding I am still amazed at the bare-faced, dishonest manipulative prose he produced that allowed him to think he'd demonstrated that Steiner supported WW1. There are many other instances of dishonesty on show, albeit somewhat less prominent: the whole farce of our discussion over Brendan Karch's PhD thesis on Upper Sillesia is a case in point. His karma has to be ultimately not good from this kind of behaviour, but I wouldn't like to say how it will take shape…

              T.

              Ted Wrinch

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ironically, there's one particular Sugar Cherub who won't develop
              > dementia or Alzheimer or ulcers because of hate. I'm talking about PS,
              > of course, or Der Staudi if you prefer, who is a different animal from
              > the others because he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism
              > and desire for personal attention, and the passionate hatred among the
              > others serves as an energy he is feeding off. He is also obsessed
              > alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the sense
              > that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and
              > esotericism, but about himself.
              >
              > I noticed that Dennis just called PS on exactly that point, and it
              > wasn't unexpected that Dan (I don't have a code name for him yet), who
              > is usually very slow to react, quite patient, jumped in immediately with
              > an ad hom warning. The reason is very simple: From his very arrival in
              > Sugarland 11 or 12 years ago, PS has been Dan's favorite and
              > indispensable pet who is always welcomed with a red carpet VIP
              > treatment. Why? Well, it's not merely his academic pretenses. The
              > crucial reason is that prior to the arrival of PS, Dan was going solo
              > with his Nazi War Dance. Nobody else, not even the most hardcore
              > Cherubs, shared Dan's obsession with linking Steiner to Hitler and
              > anthroposophy to Nazism in those days. In this field, PS has done a
              > momentous amount of hard work that Dan could never dream of
              > accomplishing. So PS is not only Dan's pet; he's his Golden Goose, and
              > every post of his is a Golden Egg.
              >
              > So Dennis must immediately leave Dan's Golden Goose alone lest he get a
              > week on the bench. This is what that murderous madman got (who is really
              > honeysweet on the inside and ready for repentance and salvation someday,
              > just like Son of Sam and the Hillside Strangler were), which means that
              > criticizing Dan's Golden Pet is exactly as serious in his eyes as
              > threatening to kill school teachers by gutting them like fishes. And it
              > goes to show that Sune was nuked from Sugarland for calling PS a liar,
              > and I left in disgust after Dan ad home-warned me for calling a
              > statement of his a lie, although that was clearly an ad statementem and
              > not an ad hominem.
              >
              > Like I said, PS isn't likely to develop Alzheimer, for instance, for the
              > same reason as the others. He's bilingual for once, and he is obsessed
              > by personal ambition and intellectual exhibitionism rather than
              > passionate hatred. On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness,
              > especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful
              > untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause
              > Alzheimer I believe. I'm not a medical researcher, but I'm thinking of a
              > character like the late Elizabeth Claire Prophet. What PS can do to
              > counteract this danger is to learn many more languages, perhaps, but
              > that's what's expected of professional historians, so he's got his work
              > cut out for him.
              >
              > Tarjei
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
              > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes, that was my point about the WC denizens shortly after I joined
              > that group. The words in quotes, I expect everyone remembers, are her
              > own that she directed against me for her own bizarre reasons. It's very
              > clear from her comment this morning, and the general behaviour of
              > others, that they are "feeding [their] own animosity against what [they]
              > hate". It's not healthy and can only end in tears (or dementia - we've
              > seen that multi-language ability may help protect against it; I'm sure
              > it's only a matter of time before evidence becomes available indicating
              > that hate induces it).
              > >
              > > T.
              > >
              > > Ted Wrinch
              > >
              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
              > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Yea -- what was it again? Something like, Why not celebrate and
              > promote
              > > > what you love instead of developing ulcers, high blood pressure, and
              > > > dementia by feeding your own animosity against what you hate?
              > > >
              > > > Tarjei
              > > >
              > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
              > > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Over on WC, Diana has thanked Alicia for 'getting her day off to a
              > > > great start' by pointing her to an article mocking the recent
              > creation
              > > > of homoeopathically potentised biodynamic wine glasses. What 'an
              > > > indescribably sad and pathetic' person she must be to need to
              > ridicule
              > > > others in order to make herself and her day 'great'.
              > > > >
              > > > > T.
              > > > >
              > > > > Ted Wrinch
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Frank Thomas Smith
              ... And I think that both of you guys should finally learn the axiom: Don t fuck with Diana! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/23588
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                >
                > "On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause Alzheimer I believe."

                And I think that both of you guys should finally learn the axiom: "Don't fuck with Diana!"
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/23588

                Frank
              • elfuncle
                Our Beloved Sister is suffering a severe, albeit temporary, setback; she s backsliding a little. With such tremendous progress she s been making lately, this
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                  Our Beloved Sister is suffering a severe, albeit temporary, setback; she's backsliding a little. With such tremendous progress she's been making lately, this is not unexpected. Nobody ascends in a straight line, like in a linear diagonal:




                  In real life we all have our ups and downs, our good days and bad days:



                  I must have hit some nail too hard on the head in one of my last posts, because the viper is biting hard this time, ouch! -- characterized by severe paranoia:

                  "Tarjei: "I've been sayhing all along that our Beloved Sister ought to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad"

                  That's what your recent psychotic outbursts are all about, isn't it? That's why you've got to "love" me endlessly, you don't like it that I am studying Steiner. That deserves your scorn. I see. But I'm the one driven by "hate"? Look in the mirror, or in the reflective surface of Saturn, which is supposed to reflect everything back to you."

                  Sweet, sweet Sister, you didn't read my statement in full:

                  "But we're here to help, aren't we? We're here to love and assist; that's what Lovathons are all about. I've been saying all along that our Beloved Sister ought to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad and concentrate at this stage on Biblical Christianity as a primary foundation for anthroposophical Christology and cosmology, which she may pick up again later, illumined by her Biblical studies. And I've always said she ought to focus especially on the apostle Paul: His epistles and the Book of Acts." (My emphasis)

                  You see, some people use Goethe as a foundation for Steiner; others choose Blavatsky, but those authors may be heavy (especially Blavatsky), and nobody has explained the Mystery of Golgotha clearer than the apostle Paul. Our Bewloved Sister may have a strong aversion to Paul because of something that happened to her in the Middle Ages, perhaps in a dark and scary church with sinister ministers, and this may be the reason for this sudden backsliding, but if she can overcome this, salvation and bliss is beckoning her.

                  It's also very disturbing that she sees hate as love and love as hate, as if she carries the symptoms of Orwellian brainwashing: WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. This means we still have a lot of work to do with Sister, but like Paul said, love suffereth long, and is kind, envieth not, vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

                  And Brother Frank, throwing those four letter words around like that isn't helping. Use words of loving kindness, holy and sacred and divine words that the higher hierarchies would like to hear and see. When I just wrote some truth too hard for Sister and her friend Alicia to bear -- she says this forum is sick and vile and "an embarrassment to anthroposophy," which is a positive thing coming from her -- it was like sticking my finger into a hornet's nest. The hornets are like extreme wasps, and wasps are almost like bees, and bees make sweet honey. Let's help the Sugar Cherubs change their hornet's nest into a beehive so they can make sweet and tasty honey like they're supposed to.

                  Our Lovathon continues!



                  Tarjei


                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts.trasla@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause Alzheimer I believe."
                  >
                  > And I think that both of you guys should finally learn the axiom: "Don't fuck with Diana!"
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/23588
                  >
                  > Frank
                  >

                • ted.wrinch
                  Part of the end of PS and my exchange on three-folding was as follows
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                    Part of the end of PS and my exchange on three-folding was as follows (http://www.social-ecology.org/2009/01/rudolf-steiner%E2%80%99s-threefold-commonwealth-and-alternative-economic-thought/ ):

                    Ted Wrinch:

                    " 'The events now taking place are the opposite of our own intentions, which have come to expression in this very building. [ the Goetheanum ]

                    Again and again we must try to see clearly which stream of spiritual development we wish to see taken up by humanity, and today we have to say it is the opposite of the stream which has led to the terrible tragedy of these last years.'

                    [Rudolf Steiner, Fall of the Spirits of Darkness, 1916]

                    Which is the opposite of supporting the war."

                    Peter Staudenmaier:

                    "That is a very revealing statement. In the eyes of Steiner's admirers, if he said the war has developed in the opposite way he hoped for and has led to a terrible tragedy, this must mean that he opposed the war! Imagine applying the same notion to supporters of the Viet Nam war or the Iraq war.

                    This is an illustrative instance of the differences between anthroposophical thinking and historical thinking. Consider a figure like Robert McNamara, for example, one of the most prominent proponents of the US cause in the Viet Nam war. By anthroposophist logic, Robert McNamara actually opposed the Viet Nam war. After all, the outcome of that war was `the opposite of his own intentions,' and McNamara did come to see the war as a `terrible tragedy' and so forth.
                    Alas, this does not mean that he opposed the war."

                    The dishonesty of PS in staying "this does not mean that he opposed the war" is apparent. In the same year RS also said:

                    "Surely it must cut us to the quick that we live in an age when mankind's longing for peace is shouted down. [ Note 9 ] It is almost dishonest in these days, when mankind's longing for peace is shouted down in the way it is, to celebrate Christmas at all. Let us hope, since we are not yet confronted with the absolute worst, that a change of soul may take place so that, in place of the shouting-down of the longing for peace, there may come Christian feelings, a will for peace. If it does not, it may not be those who are striving in Europe today but, instead, others who come over from Asia who will one day take revenge for the shouting-down of the longing for peace and bring tidings of Christianity and of the Mystery of Golgotha to the ruins of European culture and spiritual life. Then the record will be indelible: At Christmas in the nineteen hundred and sixteenth year after the annunciation of peace on earth to human souls who are of good will, in the nineteen hundred and sixteenth year after the tidings of Christmas, mankind succeeded in shouting down the longing for peace!"

                    Rudolf Steiner, Karma of Untruthfulness, Volume One, 1916

                    Note 9: On 12 December 1916, via a speech in the Reichstag by Bethmann-Hollweg, the Central Powers offered a suggestion for peace negotiations which was rejected by the Allies.

                    T.

                    Ted Wrinch

                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause Alzheimer I believe."
                    >
                    > Didn't respond to to this as I think most agree on Staudi's fundamental, unremitting dishonesty. But, as I read through my last posting on his website article on three-folding I am still amazed at the bare-faced, dishonest manipulative prose he produced that allowed him to think he'd demonstrated that Steiner supported WW1. There are many other instances of dishonesty on show, albeit somewhat less prominent: the whole farce of our discussion over Brendan Karch's PhD thesis on Upper Sillesia is a case in point. His karma has to be ultimately not good from this kind of behaviour, but I wouldn't like to say how it will take shape…
                    >
                    > T.
                    >
                    > Ted Wrinch
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ironically, there's one particular Sugar Cherub who won't develop
                    > > dementia or Alzheimer or ulcers because of hate. I'm talking about PS,
                    > > of course, or Der Staudi if you prefer, who is a different animal from
                    > > the others because he seems not to be driven by hate, but by opportunism
                    > > and desire for personal attention, and the passionate hatred among the
                    > > others serves as an energy he is feeding off. He is also obsessed
                    > > alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the sense
                    > > that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and
                    > > esotericism, but about himself.
                    > >
                    > > I noticed that Dennis just called PS on exactly that point, and it
                    > > wasn't unexpected that Dan (I don't have a code name for him yet), who
                    > > is usually very slow to react, quite patient, jumped in immediately with
                    > > an ad hom warning. The reason is very simple: From his very arrival in
                    > > Sugarland 11 or 12 years ago, PS has been Dan's favorite and
                    > > indispensable pet who is always welcomed with a red carpet VIP
                    > > treatment. Why? Well, it's not merely his academic pretenses. The
                    > > crucial reason is that prior to the arrival of PS, Dan was going solo
                    > > with his Nazi War Dance. Nobody else, not even the most hardcore
                    > > Cherubs, shared Dan's obsession with linking Steiner to Hitler and
                    > > anthroposophy to Nazism in those days. In this field, PS has done a
                    > > momentous amount of hard work that Dan could never dream of
                    > > accomplishing. So PS is not only Dan's pet; he's his Golden Goose, and
                    > > every post of his is a Golden Egg.
                    > >
                    > > So Dennis must immediately leave Dan's Golden Goose alone lest he get a
                    > > week on the bench. This is what that murderous madman got (who is really
                    > > honeysweet on the inside and ready for repentance and salvation someday,
                    > > just like Son of Sam and the Hillside Strangler were), which means that
                    > > criticizing Dan's Golden Pet is exactly as serious in his eyes as
                    > > threatening to kill school teachers by gutting them like fishes. And it
                    > > goes to show that Sune was nuked from Sugarland for calling PS a liar,
                    > > and I left in disgust after Dan ad home-warned me for calling a
                    > > statement of his a lie, although that was clearly an ad statementem and
                    > > not an ad hominem.
                    > >
                    > > Like I said, PS isn't likely to develop Alzheimer, for instance, for the
                    > > same reason as the others. He's bilingual for once, and he is obsessed
                    > > by personal ambition and intellectual exhibitionism rather than
                    > > passionate hatred. On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness,
                    > > especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful
                    > > untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause
                    > > Alzheimer I believe. I'm not a medical researcher, but I'm thinking of a
                    > > character like the late Elizabeth Claire Prophet. What PS can do to
                    > > counteract this danger is to learn many more languages, perhaps, but
                    > > that's what's expected of professional historians, so he's got his work
                    > > cut out for him.
                    > >
                    > > Tarjei
                    > >
                    > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                    > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, that was my point about the WC denizens shortly after I joined
                    > > that group. The words in quotes, I expect everyone remembers, are her
                    > > own that she directed against me for her own bizarre reasons. It's very
                    > > clear from her comment this morning, and the general behaviour of
                    > > others, that they are "feeding [their] own animosity against what [they]
                    > > hate". It's not healthy and can only end in tears (or dementia - we've
                    > > seen that multi-language ability may help protect against it; I'm sure
                    > > it's only a matter of time before evidence becomes available indicating
                    > > that hate induces it).
                    > > >
                    > > > T.
                    > > >
                    > > > Ted Wrinch
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yea -- what was it again? Something like, Why not celebrate and
                    > > promote
                    > > > > what you love instead of developing ulcers, high blood pressure, and
                    > > > > dementia by feeding your own animosity against what you hate?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Tarjei
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                    > > > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Over on WC, Diana has thanked Alicia for 'getting her day off to a
                    > > > > great start' by pointing her to an article mocking the recent
                    > > creation
                    > > > > of homoeopathically potentised biodynamic wine glasses. What 'an
                    > > > > indescribably sad and pathetic' person she must be to need to
                    > > ridicule
                    > > > > others in order to make herself and her day 'great'.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > T.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Ted Wrinch
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Myla Robert LeMaster-Gruber
                    Bob Dylan, Knockin on Heaven s Door: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_swaxOidGU Myla
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                      Bob Dylan, "Knockin' on Heaven's Door:"
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_swaxOidGU

                      Myla

                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Our Beloved Sister has been extremely challenged by a legion of demons
                      > clinging to her soul, passionate possessive hostility against the Holy
                      > Spirit and his messenger lasting for decades, causing her to kick
                      > against the pricks day and night, even in her sleep, kicking, kicking --
                      > even kicking her husband out of bed so hard he hit the wall because she
                      > dreamed he was an anthroposophist. She loves cats, but there was this
                      > dude once who dreamt he was kicking a cat, but there was no cat there,
                      > so instead he kicked the wall and broke his toe. Yes indeed, our Beloved
                      > Sister has been going through a lot, much suffering and many
                      > tribulations, but she's a fierce fighter, I know, and she's coming out
                      > of it on top, I can see that, because her esoteric studies are promising
                      > to pay off, although she keeps running up against obstacles, especially
                      > in terms of her own understanding: Her confusion.
                      >
                      > But we're here to help, aren't we? We're here to love and assist; that's
                      > what Lovathons are all about. I've been sayhing all along that our
                      > Beloved Sister ought to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad and
                      > concentrate at this stage on Biblical Christianity as a primary
                      > foundation for anthroposophical Christology and cosmology, which she may
                      > pick up again later, illumined by her Biblical studies. And I've always
                      > said she ought to focus especially on the apostle Paul: His epistles and
                      > the Book of Acts.
                      >
                      > The latest RS lecture she is grappling with is Lecture 9
                      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/TheoRosic/19070602p01.html> in the
                      > cycle Theosophy of the Rosicrucian GA 099), titled Planetary Evolution
                      > 1, whi8ch she calls "really wild" and "a challenge to summarize." But in
                      > spite of her failure to understand all of it -- nobody said
                      > anthroposophy was easy! -- there's something like a spark flashing up
                      > inside her when she writes:
                      >
                      > "(If I'm reading this right, it suggests we will one day be gods.)"
                      >
                      > Christ is knocking and divinity is awakening in her! She's knocking at
                      > Heaven's Door, and Heaven is opening!
                      >
                      > "And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall
                      > find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." ( -- Luke 11:9)
                      >
                      > "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and
                      > open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with
                      > me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
                      > even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
                      > He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
                      > churches." ( -- Revelation 3:20-22)
                      >
                      > In spite of the fact that there are things in Steiner's lecture she
                      > doesn't understand, just like every seeker after truth and light is
                      > challenged by the grandeur of such magnificent complexity that boggles
                      > the mind and silences the wise, -- here is something that obviously sank
                      > in very deep:
                      >
                      > ' Steiner pauses to emphasize: "Take these words quite literally, as all
                      > religious documents must be taken." '
                      >
                      > Exactly, Sister! That's what I've been trying to tell you all along!
                      > Read the Gospels and Paul's Epistles!
                      >
                      > "Correspondences were also proposed to plants and minerals, but I'm
                      > afraid I lost track of that. It made no sense."
                      >
                      > Again, turn to the Bible, Beloved Sister.
                      >
                      >
                      > About plants:
                      >
                      > "Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and
                      > yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like
                      > one of these." ( -- Luke 12:27)
                      >
                      > "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and
                      > putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when
                      > ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
                      > Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these
                      > things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words
                      > shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not
                      > the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were,
                      > so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that
                      > were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving
                      > in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not
                      > until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming
                      > of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be
                      > taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the
                      > one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not
                      > what hour your Lord doth come. ( -- Matthew 24:32-42)
                      >
                      > (Read a little Steiner, especially his lectures on the Luke Gospel, and
                      > you'll find that the fig tree corresponds to the Buddha's Bodhi tree;
                      > these two trees represent the same thing in Buddhism and Christianity. I
                      > hope it's all beginning to make sense now, just a little.
                      >
                      >
                      > About minerals:
                      >
                      > "And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of
                      > Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise
                      > God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
                      > Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace
                      > in heaven, and glory in the highest. And some of the Pharisees from
                      > among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he
                      > answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their
                      > peace, the stones would immediately cry out." ( -- Luke 19:37-40)
                      >
                      > Now you may beginning to understand, Dear Sweet Beloved Sister, that
                      > minerals are also alive, that they also have a consciousness, just like
                      > you and I did on Ancient Saturn.
                      >
                      >
                      > Our Beloved Sister continues:
                      >
                      > "(As for points of discussion, all I can say is if anyone has any clue
                      > what any of this means, please let us know.)"
                      >
                      > What all this means, or any of it? Mysterious are the ways of the Lord,
                      > his wonders to behold, my friend. (I don't think that's in the Bible,
                      > but somebody said it once and it sounds pretty good, doesn't it?) But
                      > here's what Paul had to say about sacred mysteries for people like you
                      > desire to embark upon a path of understanding and initiation:
                      >
                      > "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
                      > charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though
                      > I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all
                      > knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove
                      > mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all
                      > my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and
                      > have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and
                      > is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed
                      > up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily
                      > provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in
                      > the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things,
                      > endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be
                      > prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
                      > whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part,
                      > and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then
                      > that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as
                      > a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I
                      > became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a
                      > glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall
                      > I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity,
                      > these three; but the greatest of these is charity." ( -- 1 Corinthians
                      > 13)
                      >
                      > As you know, Beloved Sister, charity means love in this King James
                      > translation of the Holy Scriptures. And that's what we're all about here
                      > at Anthroposophy Tomorrow: Loving you and all your fellow Sugar Cherubs
                      > just like Christ loves us all. That's why we have these Lovathons. And
                      > just like Paul says, our love for y'all suffereth long, and is kind,
                      > envieth not, vaunteth not itself, isnot puffed up, seeketh not her own,
                      > is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity, but
                      > rejoiceth in the truth.
                      >
                      > To Brother Ted I only want to say one little thing: I'm aware that the
                      > Sugar Cherubs are gloating in self-satisfaction and teasing you because
                      > they seem to have pulled off an April Fool's joke on you, something
                      > about wine glasses. And I think you should be very happy on their behalf
                      > and rejoice at their joy and thank the gods for the opportunity of
                      > giving them such joy. Blessed is he who gives joy to others, whether
                      > it's through a simple inspired Lovathon or through the humble service of
                      > believing in a joke -- that's what April Fool's Day is all about. If
                      > you've been a fool, you've been God's fool.
                      >
                      > "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of
                      > God is stronger than men." ( -- 1 Corinthians 1:25)
                      >
                      > Tarjei
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Ironically, there's one particular Sugar Cherub who won't develop
                      > > dementia or Alzheimer or ulcers because of hate. I'm talking about PS,
                      > > of course, or Der Staudi if you prefer, who is a different animal from
                      > > the others because he seems not to be driven by hate, but by
                      > opportunism
                      > > and desire for personal attention, and the passionate hatred among the
                      > > others serves as an energy he is feeding off. He is also obsessed
                      > > alright, but his obsession differs from the average Cherub in the
                      > sense
                      > > that it's not really about Steiner and anthroposophy and Waldorf and
                      > > esotericism, but about himself.
                      > >
                      > > I noticed that Dennis just called PS on exactly that point, and it
                      > > wasn't unexpected that Dan (I don't have a code name for him yet), who
                      > > is usually very slow to react, quite patient, jumped in immediately
                      > with
                      > > an ad hom warning. The reason is very simple: From his very arrival in
                      > > Sugarland 11 or 12 years ago, PS has been Dan's favorite and
                      > > indispensable pet who is always welcomed with a red carpet VIP
                      > > treatment. Why? Well, it's not merely his academic pretenses. The
                      > > crucial reason is that prior to the arrival of PS, Dan was going solo
                      > > with his Nazi War Dance. Nobody else, not even the most hardcore
                      > > Cherubs, shared Dan's obsession with linking Steiner to Hitler and
                      > > anthroposophy to Nazism in those days. In this field, PS has done a
                      > > momentous amount of hard work that Dan could never dream of
                      > > accomplishing. So PS is not only Dan's pet; he's his Golden Goose, and
                      > > every post of his is a Golden Egg.
                      > >
                      > > So Dennis must immediately leave Dan's Golden Goose alone lest he get
                      > a
                      > > week on the bench. This is what that murderous madman got (who is
                      > really
                      > > honeysweet on the inside and ready for repentance and salvation
                      > someday,
                      > > just like Son of Sam and the Hillside Strangler were), which means
                      > that
                      > > criticizing Dan's Golden Pet is exactly as serious in his eyes as
                      > > threatening to kill school teachers by gutting them like fishes. And
                      > it
                      > > goes to show that Sune was nuked from Sugarland for calling PS a liar,
                      > > and I left in disgust after Dan ad home-warned me for calling a
                      > > statement of his a lie, although that was clearly an ad statementem
                      > and
                      > > not an ad hominem.
                      > >
                      > > Like I said, PS isn't likely to develop Alzheimer, for instance, for
                      > the
                      > > same reason as the others. He's bilingual for once, and he is obsessed
                      > > by personal ambition and intellectual exhibitionism rather than
                      > > passionate hatred. On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness,
                      > > especially deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful
                      > > untruthfulness with oneself at the center of attention, may also cause
                      > > Alzheimer I believe. I'm not a medical researcher, but I'm thinking of
                      > a
                      > > character like the late Elizabeth Claire Prophet. What PS can do to
                      > > counteract this danger is to learn many more languages, perhaps, but
                      > > that's what's expected of professional historians, so he's got his
                      > work
                      > > cut out for him.
                      > >
                      > > Tarjei
                      > >
                      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                      > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, that was my point about the WC denizens shortly after I joined
                      > > that group. The words in quotes, I expect everyone remembers, are her
                      > > own that she directed against me for her own bizarre reasons. It's
                      > very
                      > > clear from her comment this morning, and the general behaviour of
                      > > others, that they are "feeding [their] own animosity against what
                      > [they]
                      > > hate". It's not healthy and can only end in tears (or dementia - we've
                      > > seen that multi-language ability may help protect against it; I'm sure
                      > > it's only a matter of time before evidence becomes available
                      > indicating
                      > > that hate induces it).
                      > > >
                      > > > T.
                      > > >
                      > > > Ted Wrinch
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yea -- what was it again? Something like, Why not celebrate and
                      > > promote
                      > > > > what you love instead of developing ulcers, high blood pressure,
                      > and
                      > > > > dementia by feeding your own animosity against what you hate?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Tarjei
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                      > > > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Over on WC, Diana has thanked Alicia for 'getting her day off to
                      > a
                      > > > > great start' by pointing her to an article mocking the recent
                      > > creation
                      > > > > of homoeopathically potentised biodynamic wine glasses. What 'an
                      > > > > indescribably sad and pathetic' person she must be to need to
                      > > ridicule
                      > > > > others in order to make herself and her day 'great'.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > T.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Ted Wrinch
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Myla Robert LeMaster-Gruber
                      The reference to being raped was going too far, man.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                        The reference to being raped was going too far, man.

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Our Beloved Sister is suffering a severe, albeit temporary, setback;
                        > she's backsliding a little. With such tremendous progress she's been
                        > making lately, this is not unexpected. Nobody ascends in a straight
                        > line, like in a linear diagonal:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > In real life we all have our ups and downs, our good days and bad days:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I must have hit some nail too hard on the head in one of my last posts,
                        > because the viper is biting hard this time, ouch! -- characterized by
                        > severe paranoia:
                        >
                        > "Tarjei: "I've been sayhing all along that our Beloved Sister ought
                        > to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad"
                        >
                        > That's what your recent psychotic outbursts are all about, isn't
                        > it? That's why you've got to "love" me endlessly, you
                        > don't like it that I am studying Steiner. That deserves your scorn.
                        > I see. But I'm the one driven by "hate"? Look in the mirror,
                        > or in the reflective surface of Saturn, which is supposed to reflect
                        > everything back to you."
                        >
                        > Sweet, sweet Sister, you didn't read my statement in full:
                        >
                        > "But we're here to help, aren't we? We're here to love and assist;
                        > that's what Lovathons are all about. I've been saying all along that our
                        > Beloved Sister ought to suspend her studies of Steiner a tad and
                        > concentrate at this stage on Biblical Christianity as a primary
                        > foundation for anthroposophical Christology and cosmology, which she may
                        > pick up again later, illumined by her Biblical studies. And I've always
                        > said she ought to focus especially on the apostle Paul: His epistles and
                        > the Book of Acts." (My emphasis)
                        >
                        > You see, some people use Goethe as a foundation for Steiner; others
                        > choose Blavatsky, but those authors may be heavy (especially Blavatsky),
                        > and nobody has explained the Mystery of Golgotha clearer than the
                        > apostle Paul. Our Bewloved Sister may have a strong aversion to Paul
                        > because of something that happened to her in the Middle Ages, perhaps in
                        > a dark and scary church with sinister ministers, and this may be the
                        > reason for this sudden backsliding, but if she can overcome this,
                        > salvation and bliss is beckoning her.
                        >
                        > It's also very disturbing that she sees hate as love and love as hate,
                        > as if she carries the symptoms of Orwellian brainwashing: WAR IS PEACE,
                        > FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. This means we still have
                        > a lot of work to do with Sister, but like Paul said, love suffereth
                        > long, and is kind, envieth not, vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
                        > seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth
                        > not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.
                        >
                        > And Brother Frank, throwing those four letter words around like that
                        > isn't helping. Use words of loving kindness, holy and sacred and divine
                        > words that the higher hierarchies would like to hear and see. When I
                        > just wrote some truth too hard for Sister and her friend Alicia to bear
                        > -- she says this forum is sick and vile and "an embarrassment to
                        > anthroposophy," which is a positive thing coming from her -- it was like
                        > sticking my finger into a hornet's nest. The hornets are like extreme
                        > wasps, and wasps are almost like bees, and bees make sweet honey. Let's
                        > help the Sugar Cherubs change their hornet's nest into a beehive so they
                        > can make sweet and tasty honey like they're supposed to.
                        >
                        > Our Lovathon continues!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Tarjei
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
                        > <fts.trasla@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                        > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > "On the other hand, the karma of untruthfulness, especially
                        > deliberate, calculating and spiritually harmful untruthfulness with
                        > oneself at the center of attention, may also cause Alzheimer I believe."
                        > >
                        > > And I think that both of you guys should finally learn the axiom:
                        > "Don't fuck with Diana!"
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/23588
                        > >
                        > > Frank
                        > >
                        >
                      • elfuncle
                        ... What reference to being raped? What am I missing here? Tarjei
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Myla Robert LeMaster-Gruber" <mylalemaster@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The reference to being raped was going too far, man.


                          What reference to being raped? What am I missing here?

                          Tarjei
                        • elfuncle
                          I ve get it, Myla. I wrote: Our Beloved Sister may have a strong aversion to Paul because of something that happened to her in the Middle Ages, perhaps in a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                            I've get it, Myla. I wrote:

                            "Our Beloved Sister may have a strong aversion to Paul because of something that happened to her in the Middle Ages, perhaps in a dark and scary church with sinister ministers, and this may be the reason for this sudden backsliding, but if she can overcome this, salvation and bliss is beckoning her."

                            In the Middle Ages there were inquisitions in Europe, and anti-heresy campaigns. Some people were burned at the stake in worst case scenarios, but they were relatively few, and witch-burning didn't really become an epidemic until the 17th century, in the Modern Age. But it was unlawful for any Christian to be a heretic. (Non-Christians, especially Jews, were exempt.) The clergy roaming the countryside to investigate reports and rumors of heresy could immensely feared. I don't know why our Beloved Sister has such a very bad attitude about medieval Europe, but she may have been a heretic. The most horrible thing the church fathers did in the early Middle Ages was the murder of Hypatia in March 415, which Steiner described in terrible detail. the Hypatia individuality lived in the 19th century as Helena Blavatsky, and her strong antipathy against Christianity was probably due to how she had died in her former existence. The Hypatia/Blavatsky individuality was an occultist, however, a very gifted clairvoyant in both of these incarnations, so she has nothing to do with our Beloved Sister.

                            Still, my mention of medieval sinister ministers was meant to to hint at heresy, inquisition, church authority, correct theological beliefs and so on, and perhaps being questioned by them in dark church basements, but I didn't think about rape at all. Your mind is even dirtier than Frank's!

                            Tarjei


                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Myla Robert
                            > LeMaster-Gruber" mylalemaster@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The reference to being raped was going too far, man.
                            >
                            > What reference to being raped? What am I missing here?
                            >
                            > Tarjei
                            >

                          • Myla Robert LeMaster-Gruber
                            Tarjei, I see... I try kind-of hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially these days; so I am sorry if and apparently for misunderstanding you. I
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 2, 2012
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                              Tarjei,
                              I see...
                              I try kind-of hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially these days; so I am sorry if and apparently for misunderstanding you.

                              I wasn't being dirty, in any event.

                              Myla

                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I've get it, Myla. I wrote:
                              >
                              > "Our Beloved Sister may have a strong aversion to Paul because of
                              > something that happened to her in the Middle Ages, perhaps in a dark and
                              > scary church with sinister ministers, and this may be the reason for
                              > this sudden backsliding, but if she can overcome this, salvation and
                              > bliss is beckoning her."
                              >
                              > In the Middle Ages there were inquisitions in Europe, and anti-heresy
                              > campaigns. Some people were burned at the stake in worst case scenarios,
                              > but they were relatively few, and witch-burning didn't really become an
                              > epidemic until the 17th century, in the Modern Age. But it was unlawful
                              > for any Christian to be a heretic. (Non-Christians, especially Jews,
                              > were exempt.) The clergy roaming the countryside to investigate reports
                              > and rumors of heresy could immensely feared. I don't know why our
                              > Beloved Sister has such a very bad attitude about medieval Europe, but
                              > she may have been a heretic. The most horrible thing the church fathers
                              > did in the early Middle Ages was the murder of Hypatia in March 415,
                              > which Steiner described in terrible detail. the Hypatia individuality
                              > lived in the 19th century as Helena Blavatsky, and her strong antipathy
                              > against Christianity was probably due to how she had died in her former
                              > existence. The Hypatia/Blavatsky individuality was an occultist,
                              > however, a very gifted clairvoyant in both of these incarnations, so she
                              > has nothing to do with our Beloved Sister.
                              >
                              > Still, my mention of medieval sinister ministers was meant to to hint at
                              > heresy, inquisition, church authority, correct theological beliefs and
                              > so on, and perhaps being questioned by them in dark church basements,
                              > but I didn't think about rape at all. Your mind is even dirtier than
                              > Frank's!
                              >
                              > Tarjei
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Myla Robert
                              > > LeMaster-Gruber" mylalemaster@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > The reference to being raped was going too far, man.
                              > >
                              > > What reference to being raped? What am I missing here?
                              > >
                              > > Tarjei
                              > >
                              >
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