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Re: Helmut Zander - The Biography [5]

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  • jmn36210
    Ted, C.W. Leadbeater only discovered the young Jiddu Krishnamurti in 1909. J-M ... lectures on Christian themes both before and after this date. But what did
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 13, 2012
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      Ted, C.W. Leadbeater only "discovered" the young Jiddu Krishnamurti in
      1909.

      J-M

      ==================================================================
      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
      <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
      >
      > I couldn't initially see the significance of Zander's 1906, as Steiner
      lectures on Christian themes both before and after this date. But what
      did happen at this time is the Krishnamurti incident. How Zander links
      this to Steiner's 'becoming a Christian' isn't clear but no doubt he
      tries to link it to Steiner's rejection of Krishnamurti as the vehicle
      of Christ's second coming (and probably paints this as a racist action,
      in the way Der Staudi does).
      >
      > I think that Tarjei is right and Steiner's Christian affiliation is
      sufficiently expressed in Chritianity as Mystical Fact in 1902 for it to
      be clear that Steiner had 'become a Christian' by then. Zander's thesis
      that this happened in 1906 looks so ill-informed that one wonders how he
      can maintain his academic credibility (one answer maybe that no one
      outside the Steiner movement probably cares very much). Looking through
      CMF, I noticed in the chapter entitled 'The Essence of Christianity'
      that Steiner points to the Zohar as knowing the truth of reincarnation.
      I found this very interesting site on Kabballah:
      http://www.kabbalah.info/, maintained by Bnei Baruch.
      >
      > The site is fascinating and has many well written and thoughtful
      articles. His view is that, in contra-distinction to Steiner's view of
      the late C19, the settlement of Israel is part of the last phase of the
      evolution of humanity, described in the Zohar, and that to the extent
      the Israelites can achieve knowledge of the inward wisdom of the Torah
      their problems will recede and they will become a light for the nations.
      >
      > On the site there are these passages:
      >
      > " Bear in mind, that everything has internality and externality.
      Israel, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is generally
      considered the internality of the world, and the seventy nations are
      considered its externality.
      >
      > [Zohar 66]
      > …
      >
      > "The more developed the creature is, the stronger he feels the force
      that compels him to resemble the Creator. That is why of all creations,
      man suffers most. And among the various degrees of humans, Israel suffer
      more than everyone else. And within Israel, those who are at the
      innermost degree. It is because the light, the force of life, which
      attracts us to it, begins its extensions from the innermost point in
      creation, from those desires which are the closest to the essence of the
      law, the attributes of giving, of bestowal. After that, along with the
      distancing of the light from the center, the light diminishes toward the
      outer layers.
      >
      > [Bnei Baruch, 2011]"
      >
      >
      http://www.kabbalah.info/eng/content/view/frame/4355?/eng/content/view/f\
      ull/4355&main
      >
      >
      > What occurs to me is how easy it would be to take this passage and, by
      doing an exegesis on it Der Staudi or Zander style, turn its meaning
      into the opposite of that intended by its authors. For instance, one can
      imagine Der Staudi saying: 'that expresses the standard notion of Jewish
      ethnocentric superiority. It shows a desire to subjugate the other
      peoples of the world ('the seventy nations are considered its
      externality'). The writer appears to believe that non Jewish peoples are
      closer to animals than Jewish people ('The more developed the creature
      is, the stronger he feels the force that compels him to resemble the
      Creator')." etc. Pretty much any spiritual teaching could be taken by
      people that ignore the spiritual in history, like Der Staudi, and turned
      into a caricature of itself in this way.
      >
      > T.
      >
      > Ted Wrinch
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" elfuncle@
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Interesting. Didn't he also write Christianity As Mystical Fact and
      the
      > > Mysteries of Antiquity (GA 8) in 1902? According to Zander, this
      would
      > > have been four years prior to "becoming a Christian." This is the
      same
      > > vein PS writes in when he says Steiner was an atheist in his
      thirties,
      > > before "converting" to theosophy. (And now we know that a few years
      > > after that, he "converted" to Christianity.)
      > >
      > > His autobiography is basically regarded as the ramblings of an
      > > individual who simply doesn't remember his younger years. If you
      want to
      > > know anything about Rudolf Steiner's inner soul-life in childhood
      and
      > > youth, you should consult experts like Zander and Staudenmaier. (If
      you
      > > don't, you have no interest in "scholarship.")
      > >
      > > Tarjei
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "jmn36210"
      <jmn36210@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In his autobiography [Mein Lebensgang = The Course of my Life (GA
      28,
      > > > Chapter 26)], Rudolf Steiner alludes to the fact that he
      spiritually
      > > > stood before the Mystery of Golgotha [Auf das geistige
      Gestanden-Haben
      > > > vor dem Mysterium von Golgatha], after stern battles of the soul,
      > > > before the turn of the century.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ****************************************************************
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From Chapter 12 of Dr Helmut Zander's expert biography:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > He became Christian during 1906.
      > > > 1906 is the spiritual baptismal year [das geistliche Taufjahr]
      > > > of Dr Steiner.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The talk about "having stood" [vom "Gestanden-Haben"] before
      > > > a "Mystery" [vor einem "Mysterium"] is probably, however,
      > > > a smokescreen for a confession of conversion [ein Konversions
      > > > -bekenntnis mit Nebelkerze].
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Steiner maybe - probably [Vielleicht - vermutlich] summarized
      > > > his Christ-experiences in the image of "having stood".
      > > > At the end of his life, he could be perfectly honest by saying
      > > > [konnte er wohl ehrlichen Herzens behaupten] he stood before
      > > > the Christ. But then one may legitimately presume: there never
      > > > was a dramatic turning point, when Steiner stepped into the Light
      > > > of Knowledge, as Paul after falling from a horse in front of
      > > > Damascus, in Luke's narrative. The metaphor of "having stood"
      > > > is more likely a summarization [eine Verdichtung] of long
      > > > transformation processes. The beauty of such verbal imagery
      > > > [Das Schöne an solchen Sprachbildern] is that it gives a great
      > > > deal of latitude to interpretation.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Peter Staudenmaier [WC - Message #22210]:
      > > >
      > > > "Zander's work is the gold standard for scholarly research
      > > > on the history of anthroposophy. That's why it irritates so
      > > > many anthroposophists.
      > > > <snip>
      > > > In his publications, in his teaching, and in his public
      > > > appearances, Zander is an unusually thoughtful and respectful
      > > > analyst of anthroposophy, offering extremely detailed and
      > > > refreshingly sober historical assessments of the breadth
      > > > of Steiner's work (...)"
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Jean-Marc
      > > >
      > >
      >
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