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Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY

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  • Kim
    This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man Regards,Kim ... in
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 2, 2011
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      This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
      Regards,
      Kim
      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
      >
      >
      > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
      >
      >
      > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
      >
      >
      > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
      >
      >
      > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
      >
      >
      > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
      >
      >
      > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
      >
      >
      > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
      >
      >
      >
      > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
      >
      >
      >
      > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
      >
      >
      >
      > RSVP
      >
    • dottie zold
      Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 2, 2011
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        Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
         
        Dodecahedron  Akasha
        Cube                 Earth
        Icoshedron(sp)  Water
        Octohedron       Air
        Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
         
        I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
         
        I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
         
        So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
         
        All good things,
        Dottie


         
        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



        --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

        From: Kim <kimgm@...>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM

         
        This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
        Regards,
        Kim
        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
        >
        >
        > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
        >
        >
        > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
        >
        >
        > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
        >
        >
        > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
        >
        >
        > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
        >
        >
        > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
        >
        >
        > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
        >
        >
        >
        > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
        >
        >
        >
        > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
        >
        >
        >
        > RSVP
        >
      • dottie zold
        Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.   http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html    ‎ The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron,
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 2, 2011
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          Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
           
           
           ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'

          But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
           
           


           
          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

          From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM

           
          Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
           
          Dodecahedron  Akasha
          Cube                 Earth
          Icoshedron(sp)  Water
          Octohedron       Air
          Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
           
          I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
           
          I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
           
          So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie


           
          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

          From: Kim <kimgm@...>
          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM

           
          This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
          Regards,
          Kim
          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
          >
          >
          > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
          >
          >
          > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
          >
          >
          > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
          >
          >
          > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
          >
          >
          > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
          >
          >
          > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
          >
          >
          > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
          >
          >
          >
          > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
          >
          >
          >
          > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
          >
          >
          >
          > RSVP
          >
        • elfuncle
          Dynamite link, Dottie. I ve been studying Pythagoras math lately. Even numbers are female, odd numbers are male (should be right down your alley), 5 is the
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 2, 2011
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            Dynamite link, Dottie.

            I've been studying Pythagoras' math lately. Even numbers are female, odd numbers are male (should be right down your alley), 5 is the number for marriage, the sum of 1, 2, 3, and 4 is the holy number of 10. Then there are the perfect numbers: Those that equal the sum of their divisors, like 6=1+2+3, 28=1+2+4+7+14 and so on. And then you have the Pythagorean triples or triplets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_triple

            ( 3 , 4 , 5 ) ( 5, 12, 13) ( 7, 24, 25) ( 8, 15, 17)
            ( 9, 40, 41) (11, 60, 61) (12, 35, 37) (13, 84, 85)
            (16, 63, 65) (20, 21, 29) (28, 45, 53) (33, 56, 65)
            (36, 77, 85) (39, 80, 89) (48, 55, 73) (65, 72, 97)

            I would love to see Dear Staudi's anti-esoteric analysis and critique of Pythagoras, using mathematics as his arguments and proofs ;)

            Tarjei

            , his holy number (10), perfect numbers

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
            >
            > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
            >  
            > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
            >  
            >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
            >
            > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
            >  
            >  
            >
            >
            >  
            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
            > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
            >  
            > Dodecahedron  Akasha
            > Cube                 Earth
            > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
            > Octohedron       Air
            > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
            >  
            > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
            >  
            > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
            >  
            > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
            >  
            > All good things,
            > Dottie
            >
            >
            >  
            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Kim <kimgm@...>
            > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
            >
            > Regards,
            > Kim
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
            > >
            > >
            > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
            > >
            > >
            > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
            > >
            > >
            > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
            > >
            > >
            > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
            > >
            > >
            > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
            > >
            > >
            > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
            > >
            > >
            > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > RSVP
            > >
            >
          • dottie zold
            Okay, the five platonics must be the five chakras, and then one below and one above. And then i will bet that the five colums, of the seven match the true form
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 3, 2011
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              Okay, the five platonics must be the five chakras, and then one below and one above. And then i will bet that the five colums, of the seven match the true form of the chakras of the body! These are the building blocks of man:) Lo this is man :) oh I am so happy today

              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



              --- On Sun, 10/2/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

              From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
              Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 2:54 PM

               
              Dynamite link, Dottie.

              I've been studying Pythagoras' math lately. Even numbers are female, odd numbers are male (should be right down your alley), 5 is the number for marriage, the sum of 1, 2, 3, and 4 is the holy number of 10. Then there are the perfect numbers: Those that equal the sum of their divisors, like 6=1+2+3, 28=1+2+4+7+14 and so on. And then you have the Pythagorean triples or triplets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_triple

              ( 3 , 4 , 5 ) ( 5, 12, 13) ( 7, 24, 25) ( 8, 15, 17)
              ( 9, 40, 41) (11, 60, 61) (12, 35, 37) (13, 84, 85)
              (16, 63, 65) (20, 21, 29) (28, 45, 53) (33, 56, 65)
              (36, 77, 85) (39, 80, 89) (48, 55, 73) (65, 72, 97)

              I would love to see Dear Staudi's anti-esoteric analysis and critique of Pythagoras, using mathematics as his arguments and proofs ;)

              Tarjei

              , his holy number (10), perfect numbers

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
              >
              > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
              >  
              > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
              >  
              >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
              >
              > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
              >  
              >  
              >
              >
              >  
              > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
              > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
              > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
              >  
              > Dodecahedron  Akasha
              > Cube                 Earth
              > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
              > Octohedron       Air
              > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
              >  
              > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
              >  
              > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
              >  
              > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
              >  
              > All good things,
              > Dottie
              >
              >
              >  
              > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Kim <kimgm@...>
              > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
              > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
              >
              > Regards,
              > Kim
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
              > >
              > >
              > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
              > >
              > >
              > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
              > >
              > >
              > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
              > >
              > >
              > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
              > >
              > >
              > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
              > >
              > >
              > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
              > >
              > >
              > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > RSVP
              > >
              >

            • dottie zold
              http://www.chioshealing.com/HealingLevel1/ChakraSystem/chakrasystem.htm   Taz on the idea of the 10 it also has to do with the Tree of Life which has ten
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 3, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                 
                Taz on the idea of the 10 it also has to do with the Tree of Life which has ten spheres
                 
                What is known is that there are 3 Trees of Life and Four Worlds. And five on each side of the pillar, including the one of the Crown and the one of the Root, not including the center line which is Christ line.
                 
                So, what that means is that we have 3 x 5 = 15   1+5 = 6 pointed star within. add this to the 4 worlds and we have 10  
                 
                or we could do 3 x 10 = 30  divided by 5 = 6 pointed star within. add this to the 4 worlds and we have 10

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Mon, 10/3/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 8:29 AM

                 
                Okay, the five platonics must be the five chakras, and then one below and one above. And then i will bet that the five colums, of the seven match the true form of the chakras of the body! These are the building blocks of man:) Lo this is man :) oh I am so happy today

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Sun, 10/2/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

                From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 2:54 PM

                 
                Dynamite link, Dottie.

                I've been studying Pythagoras' math lately. Even numbers are female, odd numbers are male (should be right down your alley), 5 is the number for marriage, the sum of 1, 2, 3, and 4 is the holy number of 10. Then there are the perfect numbers: Those that equal the sum of their divisors, like 6=1+2+3, 28=1+2+4+7+14 and so on. And then you have the Pythagorean triples or triplets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_triple

                ( 3 , 4 , 5 ) ( 5, 12, 13) ( 7, 24, 25) ( 8, 15, 17)
                ( 9, 40, 41) (11, 60, 61) (12, 35, 37) (13, 84, 85)
                (16, 63, 65) (20, 21, 29) (28, 45, 53) (33, 56, 65)
                (36, 77, 85) (39, 80, 89) (48, 55, 73) (65, 72, 97)

                I would love to see Dear Staudi's anti-esoteric analysis and critique of Pythagoras, using mathematics as his arguments and proofs ;)

                Tarjei

                , his holy number (10), perfect numbers

                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                >  
                > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                >  
                >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
                >
                > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                >  
                >  
                >
                >
                >  
                > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                >  
                > Dodecahedron  Akasha
                > Cube                 Earth
                > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
                > Octohedron       Air
                > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
                >  
                > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                >  
                > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
                >  
                > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
                >  
                > All good things,
                > Dottie
                >
                >
                >  
                > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
                >
                > Regards,
                > Kim
                > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" <ddimatinag5@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
                > >
                > >
                > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
                > >
                > >
                > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
                > >
                > >
                > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
                > >
                > >
                > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                > >
                > >
                > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
                > >
                > >
                > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                > >
                > >
                > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > RSVP
                > >
                >

              • Kim
                Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to Pythagoras: [620]
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 6, 2011
                • 0 Attachment

                  Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to Pythagoras: 

                  See Pythagoras et al

                  By the way, The perfect Pythagorean number ten (tetractys= 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10) are shown:

                  And it is the same as the Kabbalah, where first row are Kether, second row are Chokmah and Binah, third row are Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth,  and fourth row are Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth.

                   

                  Tetractys Steiner
                  Kabbalah Tree of Life
                  There may be some ideas in this.
                  I have seen a drawing where the solids connects to the Earth's planetary incarnations, but can't remember it fully.


                  NB! I have written a note on "Origin of the usage of Left Path and Right Path", as it has been misused in various discussions, but it goes at least back to Pythagoras.

                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                  >  
                  > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                  >  
                  >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
                  >
                  > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                  >  
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold dottie_z@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: dottie zold dottie_z@...
                  > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                  > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                  >  
                  > Dodecahedron  Akasha
                  > Cube                 Earth
                  > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
                  > Octohedron       Air
                  > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
                  >  
                  > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                  >  
                  > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
                  >  
                  > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
                  >  
                  > All good things,
                  > Dottie
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Kim kimgm@...
                  > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                  > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Kim
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" ddimatinag5@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > RSVP
                  > >
                  >
                • ted.wrinch
                  A big thanks from me for all your work on this Kim- it s beautiful! I love the collage with the interesting texts behind. Strange that you translated a work on
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 6, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    A big thanks from me for all your work on this Kim- it's beautiful! I love the collage with the interesting texts behind. Strange that you translated a work on Kepler from the French and Kepler's work appears to be in latin. Like your report from Anastasias Kircher on the amazing synthesis of Kabalah (sp?) and Greek mythology by Capella.

                    Will look at some more. Isn't history fun? Well, it's not real history according to Der Staudi of course (where's the rational discourse and facts, oh, enough of that!).

                    T.

                    Ted Wrinch

                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to
                    > Pythagoras: [620]
                    > <http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1452341168731.53098.1839344728\
                    > &l=ef72b8fee8>
                    > See Pythagoras et al
                    > <http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1452341168731.53098.1839344728\
                    > &l=ef72b8fee8>
                    >
                    > By the way, The perfect Pythagorean number ten (tetractys= 1 + 2 + 3 + 4
                    > = 10) are shown:
                    > And it is the same as the Kabbalah, where first row are Kether, second
                    > row are Chokmah and Binah, third row are Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth,
                    > and fourth row are Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth.
                    > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/the-rosicrucian-cross/>
                    > [153]
                    > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/the-rosicrucian-cross/>
                    > [Tetractys Steiner]
                    > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11> [Kabbalah Tree
                    > of Life] <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=2287> There
                    > may be some ideas in this.
                    > I have seen a drawing where the solids connects to the Earth's planetary
                    > incarnations, but can't remember it fully.
                    >
                    >
                    > NB! I have written a note on "Origin of the usage of Left Path and
                    > Right Path
                    > <http://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=471062224158> ", as
                    > it has been misused in various discussions, but it goes at least back to
                    > Pythagoras.
                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                    > <dottie_z@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                    > > Â
                    > > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                    > > Â
                    > >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron,
                    > icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to
                    > construct the first three but not last two.'
                    > >
                    > > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of
                    > Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct
                    > the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                    > > Â
                    > > Â
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                    > out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: dottie zold dottie_z@
                    > > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR
                    > COSMOLOGY
                    > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing
                    > I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where
                    > these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                    > > Â
                    > > Dodecahedron Akasha
                    > > Cube            Â
                    > Â Â Â Earth
                    > > Icoshedron(sp)Â Water
                    > > Octohedron      Air
                    > > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that
                    > weaves throughout all the others)
                    > > Â
                    > > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as
                    > the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                    > > Â
                    > > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as
                    > it can be said that our heart incarnates first. But if we look at
                    > the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found
                    > 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me
                    > speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a
                    > Cosmos of Love.
                    > > Â
                    > > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I
                    > think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also
                    > the Body of Man.
                    > > Â
                    > > All good things,
                    > > Dottie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                    > out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim kimgm@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Kim kimgm@
                    > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR
                    > COSMOLOGY
                    > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > >
                    > > This may answer some of your questions:Â Esoteric History of Man
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Kim
                    > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" ddimatinag5@
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner
                    > in detail. I have some questions.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to
                    > the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that
                    > the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in
                    > places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to
                    > periods preceding the Moon Period)
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth
                    > "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars)
                    > separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets
                    > (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of
                    > Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary
                    > scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. --
                    > independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all
                    > belong to the Earth scheme?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his
                    > writingS?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is
                    > in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it
                    > the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME
                    > in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants
                    > us to figure out on our own?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of
                    > individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN
                    > "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also
                    > "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities
                    > which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He
                    > talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who
                    > came from Venus.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that
                    > the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look
                    > at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch,
                    > so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do
                    > this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr.
                    > Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the
                    > present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn
                    > PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the
                    > Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each
                    > undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr.
                    > Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the
                    > Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric
                    > perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > RSVP
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • elfuncle
                    Pythagoras, mathematics, epistemology, esotericism -- quite a knot of riddles to sort out and analyze. It s perfectly understandable that one particular
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 7, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Pythagoras, mathematics, epistemology, esotericism -- quite a knot of riddles to sort out and analyze. It's perfectly understandable that one particular "historian" avoids and ignores history.

                      Tarjei

                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A big thanks from me for all your work on this Kim- it's beautiful! I love the collage with the interesting texts behind. Strange that you translated a work on Kepler from the French and Kepler's work appears to be in latin. Like your report from Anastasias Kircher on the amazing synthesis of Kabalah (sp?) and Greek mythology by Capella.
                      >
                      > Will look at some more. Isn't history fun? Well, it's not real history according to Der Staudi of course (where's the rational discourse and facts, oh, enough of that!).
                      >
                      > T.

                    • dottie zold
                      Kim, here s a consideration for the Adamkadmon and the five building blocks   http://kabbalah_1.tripod.com/kabbalah/id3.html Hence only by means of love can
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Kim, here's a consideration for the Adamkadmon and the five building blocks
                         
                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                        --- On Thu, 10/6/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                        From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 8:52 AM

                         

                        Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to Pythagoras: 

                        By the way, The perfect Pythagorean number ten (tetractys= 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10) are shown:

                        And it is the same as the Kabbalah, where first row are Kether, second row are Chokmah and Binah, third row are Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth,  and fourth row are Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth.

                        153 

                        Tetractys SteinerKabbalah Tree of Life
                        There may be some ideas in this.
                        I have seen a drawing where the solids connects to the Earth's planetary incarnations, but can't remember it fully.


                        NB! I have written a note on "Origin of the usage of Left Path and Right Path", as it has been misused in various discussions, but it goes at least back to Pythagoras.

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                        >  
                        > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                        >  
                        >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
                        >
                        > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                        >  
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold dottie_z@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: dottie zold dottie_z@...
                        > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                        > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                        >  
                        > Dodecahedron  Akasha
                        > Cube                 Earth
                        > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
                        > Octohedron       Air
                        > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
                        >  
                        > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                        >  
                        > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
                        >  
                        > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
                        >  
                        > All good things,
                        > Dottie
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Kim kimgm@...
                        > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                        > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Kim
                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" ddimatinag5@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > RSVP
                        > >
                        >
                      • Kim
                        Here is an interesting drawing showing the four worlds: [Four Words - extended] The first world,
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 30, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Here is an interesting drawing showing the four worlds:
                          Four Words - extended

                          The first world, Atziluth, contains the hierarchies from man and up.

                          Briah is the world of creation and contains the beings who takes part in the physical world, and the Sephirots below the human sephira is the Ahrimanic.

                          Another interesting one:
                          Kabbalah_Tree-of-Life_Humanity-Healing

                          Steiner mentions that what is above Chesed, the Abyss, is outside the understanding of man, only indirectly understandable, and he mentions the three imaginary above Kether which is absolutely unknowable.

                          http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev6.htm

                          In Kabbalah, the Ain represents the God, the Creator of all, the Transcendent One. It can translate as the Nothingness, in which everything is contained. The Ain is beyond the concept of human existence, and, at the same time, it is separated from everything because it is pure "un-manifestation of all that is or all that will come once to be".  It is the primeval Cause. The Ain is not above or below anything, neither it is in some place, or a vacuum or void.  It is at the same time the root of Spirit and of matter, but it is not definable by any.  It is uncreated LIGHT. Only higher consciousness can really grasp in plenitude the depth of this concept.
                          http://www.areveda.com/category/kether/

                          German:
                          http://www.enlightment.kilu.de/vier.html

                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Kim, here's a consideration for the Adamkadmon and the five building blocks
                          >  
                          >
                          > http://kabbalah_1.tripod.com/kabbalah/id3.html
                          >
                          > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- On Thu, 10/6/11, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Kim kimgm@...
                          > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                          > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 8:52 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to Pythagoras: 
                          >
                          > See Pythagoras et al
                          > By the way, The perfect Pythagorean number ten (tetractys= 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10) are shown:And it is the same as the Kabbalah, where first row are Kether, second row are Chokmah and Binah, third row are Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth,  and fourth row are Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth.
                          >  
                          >
                          > There may be some ideas in this.
                          > I have seen a drawing where the solids connects to the Earth's planetary incarnations, but can't remember it fully.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > NB! I have written a note on "Origin of the usage of Left Path and Right Path", as it has been misused in various discussions, but it goes at least back to Pythagoras.
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                          > >  
                          > > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                          > >  
                          > >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
                          > >
                          > > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                          > >  
                          > >  
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: dottie zold dottie_z@
                          > > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                          > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                          > >  
                          > > Dodecahedron  Akasha
                          > > Cube                 Earth
                          > > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
                          > > Octohedron       Air
                          > > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
                          > >  
                          > > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                          > >  
                          > > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
                          > >  
                          > > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
                          > >  
                          > > All good things,
                          > > Dottie
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim kimgm@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: Kim kimgm@
                          > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                          > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > >
                          > > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
                          > >
                          > > Regards,
                          > > Kim
                          > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" ddimatinag5@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > RSVP
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • dottie zold
                          Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds. Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing. It almost appears as
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 30, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds. Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing. It almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe the fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents the Ego of all three united.
                             
                            My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can see:
                             
                            Yesod = Sentient Soul
                            Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                            Datath = Consciousness Soul
                             
                            These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and upwards.
                             
                            Thanks for these considerations,
                            Dottie

                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                            --- On Sun, 10/30/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                            From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 7:17 AM

                             

                            Here is an interesting drawing showing the four worlds:
                            Four Words - extended

                            The first world, Atziluth, contains the hierarchies from man and up.

                            Briah is the world of creation and contains the beings who takes part in the physical world, and the Sephirots below the human sephira is the Ahrimanic.

                            Another interesting one:
                            Kabbalah_Tree-of-Life_Humanity-Healing

                            Steiner mentions that what is above Chesed, the Abyss, is outside the understanding of man, only indirectly understandable, and he mentions the three imaginary above Kether which is absolutely unknowable.

                            http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev6.htm

                            In Kabbalah, the Ain represents the God, the Creator of all, the Transcendent One. It can translate as the Nothingness, in which everything is contained. The Ain is beyond the concept of human existence, and, at the same time, it is separated from everything because it is pure "un-manifestation of all that is or all that will come once to be".  It is the primeval Cause. The Ain is not above or below anything, neither it is in some place, or a vacuum or void.  It is at the same time the root of Spirit and of matter, but it is not definable by any.  It is uncreated LIGHT. Only higher consciousness can really grasp in plenitude the depth of this concept.
                            http://www.areveda.com/category/kether/

                            German:
                            http://www.enlightment.kilu.de/vier.html

                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Kim, here's a consideration for the Adamkadmon and the five building blocks
                            >  
                            >
                            > http://kabbalah_1.tripod.com/kabbalah/id3.html
                            >
                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 10/6/11, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Kim kimgm@...
                            > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagorus and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 8:52 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dottie, I have some pictures and a few texts here relating to Pythagoras: 
                            >
                            > See Pythagoras et al
                            > By the way, The perfect Pythagorean number ten (tetractys= 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10) are shown:And it is the same as the Kabbalah, where first row are Kether, second row are Chokmah and Binah, third row are Chesed, Geburah, and Tiphareth,  and fourth row are Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth.
                            >  
                            >
                            > There may be some ideas in this.
                            > I have seen a drawing where the solids connects to the Earth's planetary incarnations, but can't remember it fully.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > NB! I have written a note on "Origin of the usage of Left Path and Right Path", as it has been misused in various discussions, but it goes at least back to Pythagoras.
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Kim, we can go back to Pythagorus.
                            > >  
                            > > http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html
                            > >  
                            > >  ‎'The five regular solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, icosahedron, dodecahedron). It is believed that Pythagoras knew how to construct the first three but not last two.'
                            > >
                            > > But I want to find them sketched into the body or into the Tree of Life.... do you know where these are to be found or can you construct the form into the Tree of Life in the Center line where the Christ is?
                            > >  
                            > >  
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: dottie zold dottie_z@
                            > > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                            > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:20 PM
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Kim, if you have time and perseverence, :) to work with me on a thing I want to understand in the figure we have from Occult signs, where these would fit in as the building blocks of man:
                            > >  
                            > > Dodecahedron  Akasha
                            > > Cube                 Earth
                            > > Icoshedron(sp)  Water
                            > > Octohedron       Air
                            > > Tetahedron       Fire (fire as one that weaves throughout all the others)
                            > >  
                            > > I believe it can be found that these are within the Tree of LIfe as the Body of man in the Action world. (our Tree)
                            > >  
                            > > I have found in Frank's work that we incarnate as a heart or rather as it can be said that  our heart incarnates first. But if we look at the man as a heart, incarnating first then the heart is also found 'inside' man as well, but outer too:) So we are all heart which for me speaks to this development of the next hieararchy where we say it is a Cosmos of Love.
                            > >  
                            > > So these forms.... I will see if I can find them individually but I think they must also be noted somewhere as on the Tree of Life and also the Body of  Man.
                            > >  
                            > > All good things,
                            > > Dottie
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- On Sun, 10/2/11, Kim kimgm@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: Kim kimgm@
                            > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RSVP: QUESTIONS ON SOLAR COSMOLOGY
                            > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Date: Sunday, October 2, 2011, 1:00 PM
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > >
                            > > This may answer some of your questions: Esoteric History of Man
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > > Kim
                            > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "DiwataD" ddimatinag5@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > RSVP
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • elfuncle
                            Please, please DISCONTINUE the thread where Pythagoras name is misspelled over and over again in the very title ( Pythagorus ). After seeing this a dozen
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 30, 2011
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                              Please, please DISCONTINUE the thread where Pythagoras' name is misspelled over and over again in the very title ("Pythagorus"). After seeing this a dozen times because nobody seems to care about sloppiness, I'm urged to voice my protest! It's as bad as repeating "Rudolph"!! You guys know better than that. No wonder Der Staudi wallows in ad nauseam repetitions that "esotericists" disregard learning, because there's no excuse for this.

                              Whew,

                              Tarjei



                            • Kim
                              Dottie, I don t know where I have the drawing from, but you can find variations many places. I don t think they lay on the center pillar, which is the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find variations many places.
                                I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these soul-components should be of each their element.

                                But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar, with Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind, Geburah as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                Christian Rosencreuz

                                Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the etheric, and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the body, the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal triangle, to the spirit.

                                Kim


                                Four Words - extended

                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds. Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing. It almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe the fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents the Ego of all three united.
                                >  
                                > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can see:
                                >  
                                > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                >  
                                > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and upwards.
                                >  
                                > Thanks for these considerations,
                                > Dottie
                                >

                              • elfuncle
                                OK then, Kimmus -- if you insist. Call me Tarjus and say hi to Dottus for me. Tarjus ...
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                  OK then, Kimmus -- if you insist. Call me Tarjus and say hi to Dottus
                                  for me.

                                  Tarjus

                                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                  > variations many places.
                                  > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                  > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                  > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                  > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                  > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                  >
                                  > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar, with
                                  > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind, Geburah
                                  > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                  > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                  > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                  >
                                  <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                  \
                                  > olor.jpg>
                                  > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the etheric,
                                  > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the
                                  body,
                                  > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                  > triangle, to the spirit.
                                  >
                                  > Kim
                                  >
                                  > [Four Words - extended]
                                  > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                  > dottie_z@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds.
                                  > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing.
                                  It
                                  > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe
                                  the
                                  > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents
                                  > the Ego of all three united.
                                  > > Â
                                  > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can
                                  see:
                                  > > Â
                                  > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                  > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                  > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                  > > Â
                                  > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                  > upwards.
                                  > > Â
                                  > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                  > > Dottie
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Kim
                                  Sorry, I hadn t read your posting on that vital problem:) ... with ... Geburah ...
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                    Sorry, I hadn't read your posting on that vital problem:)

                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > OK then, Kimmus -- if you insist. Call me Tarjus and say hi to Dottus
                                    > for me.
                                    >
                                    > Tarjus
                                    >
                                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" kimgm@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                    > > variations many places.
                                    > > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                    > > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                    > > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                    > > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                    > > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                    > >
                                    > > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar, with
                                    > > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind, Geburah
                                    > > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                    > > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                    > > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                    > >
                                    > <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                    > \
                                    > > olor.jpg>
                                    > > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the etheric,
                                    > > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the
                                    > body,
                                    > > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                    > > triangle, to the spirit.
                                    > >
                                    > > Kim
                                    > >
                                    > > [Four Words - extended]
                                    > > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                    > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                    > > dottie_z@ wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds.
                                    > > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing.
                                    > It
                                    > > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe
                                    > the
                                    > > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents
                                    > > the Ego of all three united.
                                    > > > Â
                                    > > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can
                                    > see:
                                    > > > Â
                                    > > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                    > > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                    > > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                    > > > Â
                                    > > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                    > > upwards.
                                    > > > Â
                                    > > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                    > > > Dottie
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Are Thoresen
                                    Dear friends, In the foothills of the Alps, on the Italian side, there is a village or society called Dahmanhur. It consists of a number (10-20) of temples,
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                      Dear friends,

                                      In the foothills of the Alps , on the Italian side, there is a ”village” or society called Dahmanhur. It consists of a number (10-20) of temples, dug in the mountain, all underground, 2-3 hundred of followers locally, but thousands worldwide, and ruled by an old man called “Falco”. They build stone spirals worldwide, to suck energy out of those who walk in these spirals, and according to the leaders, this energy is used for the true benefit of the followers. They get among other things secret information of their former lives ….

                                      To me the resemblance to the “Old man at the mountain” and his assassins is obvious. The assassins can not longer kill pilgrims and eat hasjish, but the described system works very well. I myself have walked in such a spiral, and I have also watched others walk there. As they walked flames and satanic creatures appeared under their feet, and there were loud shrikes in the air.

                                      What do you think?? Is this a village supporting the “dark side”?

                                       

                                      Are

                                    • dottie zold
                                      ...   All good things, Dottie Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way. Rudolf Steiner ... From: elfuncle
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                        :))))) I always wonder about the name when I type it and thought I recalled someone correcting me from the 'as' so I kept up with the 'us' ... got it :))) thanks!
                                         
                                        All good things,
                                        Dottie

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Sun, 10/30/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

                                        From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
                                        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] PythagorAS!!
                                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Sunday, October 30, 2011, 12:27 PM

                                         
                                        Please, please DISCONTINUE the thread where Pythagoras' name is misspelled over and over again in the very title ("Pythagorus"). After seeing this a dozen times because nobody seems to care about sloppiness, I'm urged to voice my protest! It's as bad as repeating "Rudolph"!! You guys know better than that. No wonder Der Staudi wallows in ad nauseam repetitions that "esotericists" disregard learning, because there's no excuse for this.

                                        Whew,

                                        Tarjei



                                      • dottie zold
                                        Thank  you Kim::) Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way. Rudolf Steiner ... From: Kim
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                          Thank  you Kim::)

                                          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                          --- On Mon, 10/31/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                          From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                                          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagoras and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                                          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Monday, October 31, 2011, 9:00 AM

                                           
                                          Sorry, I hadn't read your posting on that vital problem:)

                                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > OK then, Kimmus -- if you insist. Call me Tarjus and say hi to Dottus
                                          > for me.
                                          >
                                          > Tarjus
                                          >
                                          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" kimgm@ wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                          > > variations many places.
                                          > > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                          > > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                          > > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                          > > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                          > > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                          > >
                                          > > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar, with
                                          > > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind, Geburah
                                          > > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                          > > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                          > > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                          > >
                                          > <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                          > \
                                          > > olor.jpg>
                                          > > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the etheric,
                                          > > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the
                                          > body,
                                          > > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                          > > triangle, to the spirit.
                                          > >
                                          > > Kim
                                          > >
                                          > > [Four Words - extended]
                                          > > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                          > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                          > > dottie_z@ wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds.
                                          > > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing.
                                          > It
                                          > > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe
                                          > the
                                          > > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents
                                          > > the Ego of all three united.
                                          > > > Â
                                          > > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can
                                          > see:
                                          > > > Â
                                          > > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                          > > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                          > > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                          > > > Â
                                          > > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                          > > upwards.
                                          > > > Â
                                          > > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                          > > > Dottie
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • dottie
                                          Kim, what I am working on is the horizontal and the vertical. Those to the right and left are horizontal, earthly, and the ones going up are vertical. So I was
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Oct 31, 2011
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                                            Kim, what I am working on is the horizontal and the vertical. Those to the right and left are horizontal, earthly, and the ones going up are vertical. So I was thinking that on the left and right we have what it is like in the earthly world on the ahrimanic and luciferic curve and then they meet in the middle, in consciousness, when we are able to purify our chakras into their rightful working manners.



                                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                            > variations many places.
                                            > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                            > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                            > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                            > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                            > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                            >
                                            > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar, with
                                            > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind, Geburah
                                            > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                            > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                            > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                            > <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                            > olor.jpg>
                                            > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the etheric,
                                            > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the body,
                                            > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                            > triangle, to the spirit.
                                            >
                                            > Kim
                                            >
                                            > [Four Words - extended]
                                            > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                            > <dottie_z@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four worlds.
                                            > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing. It
                                            > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe the
                                            > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then represents
                                            > the Ego of all three united.
                                            > > Â
                                            > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can see:
                                            > > Â
                                            > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                            > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                            > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                            > > Â
                                            > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                            > upwards.
                                            > > Â
                                            > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                            > > Dottie
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Kim
                                            Dottie, what s in and below Malkuth in Aziluth is earthy, but I haven t gone deeply into these lower trees as it is a life study in themselves. Kim ... the
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 2, 2011
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                                              Dottie, what's in and below Malkuth in Aziluth is earthy, but I haven't
                                              gone deeply into these lower trees as it is a life study in themselves.
                                              Kim

                                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie" <dottie_z@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Kim, what I am working on is the horizontal and the vertical. Those to
                                              the right and left are horizontal, earthly, and the ones going up are
                                              vertical. So I was thinking that on the left and right we have what it
                                              is like in the earthly world on the ahrimanic and luciferic curve and
                                              then they meet in the middle, in consciousness, when we are able to
                                              purify our chakras into their rightful working manners.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" kimgm@ wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                              > > variations many places.
                                              > > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                              > > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                              > > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                              > > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                              > > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                              > >
                                              > > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar,
                                              with
                                              > > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind,
                                              Geburah
                                              > > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                              > > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                              > > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                              > >
                                              <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                              \
                                              > > olor.jpg>
                                              > > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the
                                              etheric,
                                              > > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the
                                              body,
                                              > > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                              > > triangle, to the spirit.
                                              > >
                                              > > Kim
                                              > >
                                              > > [Four Words - extended]
                                              > > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                              > > <dottie_z@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four
                                              worlds.
                                              > > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing.
                                              It
                                              > > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe
                                              the
                                              > > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then
                                              represents
                                              > > the Ego of all three united.
                                              > > > Â
                                              > > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can
                                              see:
                                              > > > Â
                                              > > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                              > > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                              > > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                              > > > Â
                                              > > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                              > > upwards.
                                              > > > Â
                                              > > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                              > > > Dottie
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • Kim
                                              Dear Are, It s a little difficult to believe without deeper knowledge about what actually happens. If we assume it is real, it s black magic as the energy is
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 2, 2011
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                                                Dear Are,
                                                It's a little difficult to believe without deeper knowledge about what
                                                actually happens.

                                                If we assume it is real, it's black magic as the energy is drawn out of
                                                people, they don't give it freely. Ahrimanic beings functions like a
                                                sponge.

                                                Then there is the why, and it could be to increase the strength of their
                                                leaders and it can be to keep the members weak, which is done by many
                                                organizations to bind their members to the organization through various
                                                means.

                                                Kim

                                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Are Thoresen"
                                                <arethore@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Dear friends,
                                                >
                                                > In the foothills of the Alps, on the Italian side, there is a
                                                "village" or
                                                > society called Dahmanhur. It consists of a number (10-20) of temples,
                                                dug in
                                                > the mountain, all underground, 2-3 hundred of followers locally, but
                                                > thousands worldwide, and ruled by an old man called "Falco". They
                                                build
                                                > stone spirals worldwide, to suck energy out of those who walk in these
                                                > spirals, and according to the leaders, this energy is used for the
                                                true
                                                > benefit of the followers. They get among other things secret
                                                information of
                                                > their former lives ..
                                                >
                                                > To me the resemblance to the "Old man at the mountain" and his
                                                assassins is
                                                > obvious. The assassins can not longer kill pilgrims and eat hasjish,
                                                but the
                                                > described system works very well. I myself have walked in such a
                                                spiral, and
                                                > I have also watched others walk there. As they walked flames and
                                                satanic
                                                > creatures appeared under their feet, and there were loud shrikes in
                                                the air.
                                                >
                                                > What do you think?? Is this a village supporting the "dark side"?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Are
                                                >
                                              • dottie zold
                                                Yes, what I am trying to say is that it is the human progress up the ladder so to speak and so to the sides we have what the human beings is transforming in
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 2, 2011
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                                                  Yes, what I am trying to say is that it is the human progress up the ladder so to speak and so to the sides we have what the human beings is transforming in each of the aspects of what he lost from a down up and now is moving up down and each of these he must realign in his own bodies. So although the Malkuth is of the earth so are the others but in ascendance is how I can see it. I understand though what you are saying.

                                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                                  --- On Wed, 11/2/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                                                  Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Pythagoras and the Five Building Blocks of Man
                                                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2011, 2:08 AM

                                                   
                                                  Dottie, what's in and below Malkuth in Aziluth is earthy, but I haven't
                                                  gone deeply into these lower trees as it is a life study in themselves.
                                                  Kim

                                                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie" <dottie_z@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Kim, what I am working on is the horizontal and the vertical. Those to
                                                  the right and left are horizontal, earthly, and the ones going up are
                                                  vertical. So I was thinking that on the left and right we have what it
                                                  is like in the earthly world on the ahrimanic and luciferic curve and
                                                  then they meet in the middle, in consciousness, when we are able to
                                                  purify our chakras into their rightful working manners.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" kimgm@ wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Dottie, I don't know where I have the drawing from, but you can find
                                                  > > variations many places.
                                                  > > I don't think they lay on the center pillar, which is the androgyne
                                                  > > pillar, the left is the female and the right is the maskuline, or in
                                                  > > other words, the right is the pillar of Fire, the left the pillar of
                                                  > > Water, and the center the pillar of air, and each of these
                                                  > > soul-components should be of each their element.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > But if they were in the same pillar it should be the left pillar,
                                                  with
                                                  > > Binah as the original mother, the Thrones, creater of mankind,
                                                  Geburah
                                                  > > as the creater of the sun system, the Elohims, and Hod as Sophia, or
                                                  > > rather Anthroposophia, as she is named now.
                                                  > > [Christian Rosencreuz]
                                                  > >
                                                  <http://kimgraaemunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christianrosencreutz-c\
                                                  \
                                                  > > olor.jpg>
                                                  > > Normally we start with Malkuth as the physical, Yesod as the
                                                  etheric,
                                                  > > and up to Chesed as Atma, but some set the Astral triangle to the
                                                  body,
                                                  > > the ethical triangle to the soul and, above the Abyss, the Supernal
                                                  > > triangle, to the spirit.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Kim
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Four Words - extended]
                                                  > > <http://kimgraaemunch.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=11>
                                                  > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                                  > > <dottie_z@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Kim, that is a very interesting consideration with the four
                                                  worlds.
                                                  > > Can you share the link with that image so I can see further a thing.
                                                  It
                                                  > > almost appears as if we could consider the Sun Moon Earth and maybe
                                                  the
                                                  > > fourth is when they are all united and maybe too this then
                                                  represents
                                                  > > the Ego of all three united.
                                                  > > > Â
                                                  > > > My thought on the next image is that in the center pillar we can
                                                  see:
                                                  > > > Â
                                                  > > > Yesod = Sentient Soul
                                                  > > > Tiperetjh = Intellectual Soul
                                                  > > > Datath = Consciousness Soul
                                                  > > > Â
                                                  > > > These are the Marys, the Mothers, who lead us ever onwards and
                                                  > > upwards.
                                                  > > > Â
                                                  > > > Thanks for these considerations,
                                                  > > > Dottie
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >

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