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Roger kills Tinkerbell

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  • ted.wrinch
    Over in sugar land Roger is ringing forth his, and many fellow minded atheists , credo for all to hear: Anthroposophical thinking is mere wishfulness, which
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 3, 2011
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      Over in sugar land Roger is ringing forth his, and many fellow minded atheists', credo for all to hear:

      "Anthroposophical thinking is mere wishfulness, which is tantamount to
      self-deception. During the play "Peter Pan", when the fairy Tinkerbell is dying,
      Peter tells the children in the audience to wish for Tinkerbell's recovery. And
      it works! The kids wish and wish, and Tinkerbell revives. It is a nice fairy
      tale. But that's all it is, a fairy tale."

      "Truth and reality have a great advantage — they are true and real. And they
      aren't so bad. We're alive, in a universe of beauty, grandeur, pain, suffering,
      and achievement and joy and victory. This is the universe that really exists,
      the universe of physics and astronomy and the soaring human intellect. Steiner
      would return us to a dark, medieval past."

      But the 'universe of physics and astronomy' is a world of darkness and silence, being constructed of the primary qualities that physics takes as 'the real', and has nothing to say about 'beauty, grandeur, pain, suffering,and achievement and joy and victory', which are the secondary qualities of human experience. Roger's 'real world' is as self deceptive and wish fullfilling as he says that anthroposophy's is. It is a world that laughs at that of our forebears as being one constructed out of 'fairy tales', stories and myths and as being a childish one that we have outgrown. It habitually and now traditionally refers to the medieval world as 'dark' because the world of our medieval forebears is incomprehensible to it. Diana accuses Steve H of living in a 'closed world' for following the worldview of anthroposophy. But anthroposophy makes the world of our medieval and ancient forbears luminous and resounding and open to us.

      T.

      Ted Wrinch
    • elfuncle
      In the Unthinkable Facility, some of the polemical assaults against Steiner and anthroposophy have become increasingly vehement and hateful, and in the process
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 3, 2011
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        In the Unthinkable Facility, some of the polemical assaults against Steiner and anthroposophy have become increasingly vehement and hateful, and in the process more irrational and illogical as well.

        Here are a couple of examples from yesterday (Friday):

        Fri Sep 2, 2011 5:31 pm
        Peter Staudenmaier


        Pete wrote:

        > You could save yourself the trouble Steve, we've heard it all before...

        That's true, though it wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing to hear it all over again, in all of its unvarnished looniness. Anthroposophists are very attached to a mythic image of Steiner, and the specific contours of that myth are instructive. It's also a fine example of esoteric epistemology in action, not to mention anthroposophical reading strategies: when they want to know what Steiner thought in 1892, they read something he wrote three decades later, suddenly forgetting all about the 'context' that was supposed to be so all-important.

        It can also be illuminating to watch Steiner's admirers blithely repeat the same timeworn myths, oblivious to the existence of actual biographical and historical studies of their founder; many anthroposophists don't seem to be aware that three biographies of Steiner just appeared this year, and that all three of them make a mockery of the cherished myths that Steiner's followers continue to hold dear. The preferred image of an idealized "Rudolf Steiner" remains, unexamined and unfounded, an imaginary construct that for some reason impresses anthroposophists more than the historical and biographical reality. So much for higher knowledge. Greetings to all,

        Peter S.

        This is what I find especially interesting in the above-quoted text: "... when they want to know what Steiner thought in 1892, they read something he wrote three decades later... "

        Let's see, three decades ago from the present, that would bring us back to 1981. This was the last year I spent in Phoenix, Arizona. I wrote some poetry in those days, i.e. in real time. But I also had experiences and thought processes that I didn't write down and certainly didn't publish. But I could tell you about some of that today, based upon personal recollections. Autobiographies of this nature are published all the time, and they are also important sources for historians.

        So far, Peter S. has been denying that he thinks Rudolf Steiner was a liar; instead, he claims he suffered from some kind of memory loss. It's of vital importance to PS to convince his readers that he knows RS much better than RS knew himself.

        Roger Rawlings, on the other hand, takes the attack against Steiner's credibility one significant step further in a post that appears in the Unthinkable Facility less than two hours after PS':

        Fri Sep 2, 2011 7:17 pm

        "Roger Rawlings"



        Discussions of insanity are always touchy, perhaps never more so than when they occur in the context of Anthroposophy. It would be difficult, for instance, to argue against the proposition that Rudolf Steiner was insane. But we cannot *prove* that he was insane, and in any case the question is irrelevant. What we can know with great clarity is that Steiner's teachings are insane, and this is really all that need concern us. This, and the knowledge that Waldorf education is built on the foundation of Steiner's insane teachings.

        We have our very own match for this, however, namely in our prominent critical academic researcher of Rudolf Steiner, namely Theodor Grekenquist, who wrote five years ago :

        Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:14 pm
        Theodor Grekenquist


        I say let us look at the problem with Steiner and Anthroposophy for what it is: A case of schizophrenia matched with benign megalomania due to suppressed painful childhood experiences that made him project this suppressed childhood into his adult life and scientific thinking.

        The rest of Theodor's message  is highly recommended.

        The Sugar Cherubs don't like Theodor for some reason -- probably because he argues against the idea that there is racism in Steiner. But other than that, I think he corroborates Mr. Rawlings' theory about Steiner's insanity, or at least the insanity of his ideas, very nicely.

        Tarjei


        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
        >
        > Over in sugar land Roger is ringing forth his, and many fellow minded atheists', credo for all to hear:
        >
        > "Anthroposophical thinking is mere wishfulness, which is tantamount to
        > self-deception. During the play "Peter Pan", when the fairy Tinkerbell is dying,
        > Peter tells the children in the audience to wish for Tinkerbell's recovery. And
        > it works! The kids wish and wish, and Tinkerbell revives. It is a nice fairy
        > tale. But that's all it is, a fairy tale."
        >
        > "Truth and reality have a great advantage — they are true and real. And they
        > aren't so bad. We're alive, in a universe of beauty, grandeur, pain, suffering,
        > and achievement and joy and victory. This is the universe that really exists,
        > the universe of physics and astronomy and the soaring human intellect. Steiner
        > would return us to a dark, medieval past."
        >
        > But the 'universe of physics and astronomy' is a world of darkness and silence, being constructed of the primary qualities that physics takes as 'the real', and has nothing to say about 'beauty, grandeur, pain, suffering,and achievement and joy and victory', which are the secondary qualities of human experience. Roger's 'real world' is as self deceptive and wish fullfilling as he says that anthroposophy's is. It is a world that laughs at that of our forebears as being one constructed out of 'fairy tales', stories and myths and as being a childish one that we have outgrown. It habitually and now traditionally refers to the medieval world as 'dark' because the world of our medieval forebears is incomprehensible to it. Diana accuses Steve H of living in a 'closed world' for following the worldview of anthroposophy. But anthroposophy makes the world of our medieval and ancient forbears luminous and resounding and open to us.
        >
        > T.
        >
        > Ted Wrinch
        >

      • elfuncle
        A reminder: During this very month of September, the last few weeks of our intense 2011 Lovathon, we have to pray extra hard for the Sugar Cherubs and bless
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 3, 2011
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          A reminder: During this very month of September, the last few weeks of our intense 2011 Lovathon, we have to pray extra hard for the Sugar Cherubs and bless them and love them intensely.

          And there's certainly hope for some. Some years ago, I was working very hard on Diana Winters to get her through a Damascus experience and an Epiphany, to get her saved. And only a week and a half ago, she expressed her strong longing for salvation, hoping that some anthroposophists could offer that to her:

          Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:44 pm

          "winters_diana"


          It's an interesting point - anthroposophists are indeed not concerned with
          salvation. We might almost wish they'd get a little more concerned with
          salvation.

          So get the baptismal water prepared for Sister Diana!!


          Tarjei


          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
          >
          > In the Unthinkable Facility, some of the polemical assaults against
          > Steiner and anthroposophy have become increasingly vehement and hateful,
          > and in the process more irrational and illogical as well.
          >
          > Here are a couple of examples from yesterday (Friday):
          >
          > Fri Sep 2, 2011 5:31 pm
          > Peter Staudenmaier
          >
          > Pete wrote:
          >
          > > You could save yourself the trouble Steve, we've heard it all
          > before...
          >
          > That's true, though it wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing to hear
          > it all over again, in all of its unvarnished looniness. Anthroposophists
          > are very attached to a mythic image of Steiner, and the specific
          > contours of that myth are instructive. It's also a fine example of
          > esoteric epistemology in action, not to mention anthroposophical reading
          > strategies: when they want to know what Steiner thought in 1892, they
          > read something he wrote three decades later, suddenly forgetting all
          > about the 'context' that was supposed to be so all-important.
          >
          > It can also be illuminating to watch Steiner's admirers blithely repeat
          > the same timeworn myths, oblivious to the existence of actual
          > biographical and historical studies of their founder; many
          > anthroposophists don't seem to be aware that three biographies of
          > Steiner just appeared this year, and that all three of them make a
          > mockery of the cherished myths that Steiner's followers continue to hold
          > dear. The preferred image of an idealized "Rudolf Steiner" remains,
          > unexamined and unfounded, an imaginary construct that for some reason
          > impresses anthroposophists more than the historical and biographical
          > reality. So much for higher knowledge. Greetings to all,
          >
          > Peter S.
          >
          > This is what I find especially interesting in the above-quoted text:
          > "... when they want to know what Steiner thought in 1892, they read
          > something he wrote three decades later... "
          >
          > Let's see, three decades ago from the present, that would bring us back
          > to 1981. This was the last year I spent in Phoenix, Arizona. I wrote
          > some poetry in those days, i.e. in real time. But I also had experiences
          > and thought processes that I didn't write down and certainly didn't
          > publish. But I could tell you about some of that today, based upon
          > personal recollections. Autobiographies of this nature are published all
          > the time, and they are also important sources for historians.
          >
          > So far, Peter S. has been denying that he thinks Rudolf Steiner was a
          > liar; instead, he claims he suffered from some kind of memory loss. It's
          > of vital importance to PS to convince his readers that he knows RS much
          > better than RS knew himself.
          >
          > Roger Rawlings, on the other hand, takes the attack against Steiner's
          > credibility one significant step further in a post that appears in the
          > Unthinkable Facility less than two hours after PS':
          >
          > Fri Sep 2, 2011 7:17 pm
          >
          > "Roger Rawlings"
          >
          >
          > Discussions of insanity are always touchy, perhaps never more so than
          > when they occur in the context of Anthroposophy. It would be difficult,
          > for instance, to argue against the proposition that Rudolf Steiner was
          > insane. But we cannot *prove* that he was insane, and in any case the
          > question is irrelevant. What we can know with great clarity is that
          > Steiner's teachings are insane, and this is really all that need concern
          > us. This, and the knowledge that Waldorf education is built on the
          > foundation of Steiner's insane teachings.
          >
          > We have our very own match for this, however, namely in our prominent
          > critical academic researcher of Rudolf Steiner, namely Theodor
          > Grekenquist, who wrote five years ago
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/25418> :
          >
          > Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:14 pm
          > Theodor Grekenquist
          >
          > I say let us look at the problem with Steiner and Anthroposophy for what
          > it is: A case of schizophrenia matched with benign megalomania due to
          > suppressed painful childhood experiences that made him project this
          > suppressed childhood into his adult life and scientific thinking.
          >
          > The rest of Theodor's message
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/25418>
          > is highly recommended.
          >
          > The Sugar Cherubs don't like Theodor for some reason -- probably because
          > he argues against the idea that there is racism in Steiner. But other
          > than that, I think he corroborates Mr. Rawlings' theory about Steiner's
          > insanity, or at least the insanity of his ideas, very nicely.
          >
          > Tarjei
          >
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
          > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Over in sugar land Roger is ringing forth his, and many fellow minded
          > atheists', credo for all to hear:
          > >
          > > "Anthroposophical thinking is mere wishfulness, which is tantamount to
          > > self-deception. During the play "Peter Pan", when the fairy Tinkerbell
          > is dying,
          > > Peter tells the children in the audience to wish for Tinkerbell's
          > recovery. And
          > > it works! The kids wish and wish, and Tinkerbell revives. It is a nice
          > fairy
          > > tale. But that's all it is, a fairy tale."
          > >
          > > "Truth and reality have a great advantage — they are true and
          > real. And they
          > > aren't so bad. We're alive, in a universe of beauty, grandeur, pain,
          > suffering,
          > > and achievement and joy and victory. This is the universe that really
          > exists,
          > > the universe of physics and astronomy and the soaring human intellect.
          > Steiner
          > > would return us to a dark, medieval past."
          > >
          > > But the 'universe of physics and astronomy' is a world of darkness
          > and silence, being constructed of the primary qualities that physics
          > takes as 'the real', and has nothing to say about 'beauty, grandeur,
          > pain, suffering,and achievement and joy and victory', which are the
          > secondary qualities of human experience. Roger's 'real world' is as self
          > deceptive and wish fullfilling as he says that anthroposophy's is. It is
          > a world that laughs at that of our forebears as being one constructed
          > out of 'fairy tales', stories and myths and as being a childish one that
          > we have outgrown. It habitually and now traditionally refers to the
          > medieval world as 'dark' because the world of our medieval forebears is
          > incomprehensible to it. Diana accuses Steve H of living in a 'closed
          > world' for following the worldview of anthroposophy. But anthroposophy
          > makes the world of our medieval and ancient forbears luminous and
          > resounding and open to us.
          > >
          > > T.
          > >
          > > Ted Wrinch
          > >
          >

        • dottie zold
          Hey Friends,   at least here I don t mind to be clobered:)   So on the road to Paul I find this:   Jonah Saul Paul   What they all have in common, or their
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 8, 2011
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            Hey Friends,
             
            at least here I don't mind to be clobered:)
             
            So on the road to Paul I find this:
             
            Jonah
            Saul
            Paul
             
            What they all have in common, or their gesture is:
             
            Jonah and Saul  hide from God
             
            Jonah already initated which is why as Saul he can experience the risen Christ whereas Lazarus had not experienced it in that manner specifically which is why he also has to go into the 'whale' of the earth whereas Jonah did it in water, etheric. Paul sees the Christ in the etheric light
             
            Saul and Paul great military leaders crucifying others:
             
            Saul, old testament,l persecutes those who say DAvid is King
             
            Paul, new testamen,t persecutes Christians who say Jesus is King
             
            On Claudia Procula gesture: Pharoahs daughter saves Moses from Pharoah as does she attempt to do for ChristJesus, this was my consideration....
             
            On Elisha and Elijah gesture, I can see a connection between Lazarus as Elisha and John the Baptist we know as Elijah come again
             
            And the reason for the seeking is the mystery of the I AM.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie
             
             
             
             
             
             


             
            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

          • dottie zold
            Friends,   Old Testament: Pharaoh s father has a dream that ends up with him killing new born males Pharaoh s daughter saves him   instead of dying Moses
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 8, 2011
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              Friends,
               
              Old Testament:
              Pharaoh's father has a dream that ends up with him 'killing' new born males
              Pharaoh's daughter saves him
               
              instead of dying Moses is brought into the Pharoahs house unbeknownst to him and leads the people to freedom
               
              New Testament:
              Claudia has the dream and tells Pilate that he should have nothing to do with the death of this man
              Pilate has no choice but to go forward with what he had already wrought
               
              Instead of dying the Christ is born into the earth
               
               
              And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have had a dream, but no one can interpret it; and I have heard it said about you, that when you hear a dream you can interpret it." Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, "It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favorable answer." So Pharaoh spoke to Joseph, "In my dream, behold, I was standing on the bank of the Nile; and behold, seven cows, fat and sleek came up out of the Nile; and they grazed in the marsh grass. "And lo, seven other cows came up after them, poor and very ugly and gaunt, such as I had never seen for ugliness in all the land of Egypt; and the lean and ugly cows ate up the first seven fat cows. Yet when they devoured them, it could not be detected that they had devoured them; for they were just as ugly as before. Then I awoke.
              I saw also in my dream, and behold, seven ears, full and good, came up on a single stalk; and lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them; and the thin ears swallowed the seven good ears. Then I told it to the magicians, but there was no one who could explain it to me."
              Now Joseph said to Pharaoh, "Pharaoh's dreams are one and the same; God has told to Pharaoh what He is about to do. The seven good cows are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years; the dreams are one and the same. And the seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven thin ears scorched by the east wind shall be seven years of famine. It is as I have spoken to Pharaoh: God has shown to Pharaoh what He is about to do. Behold, seven years of great abundance are coming in all the land of Egypt; and after them seven years of famine will come, and all the abundance will be forgotten in the land of Egypt; and the famine will ravage the land. So the abundance will be unknown in the land because of that subsequent famine; for it will be very severe." (Genesis41:15-31, New American Standard Bible)
              The Baby Moses

              Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born you are to cast into the Nile, and every daughter you are to keep alive."
              Now a man from the house of Levi went and married a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived and bore a son; and when she saw that he was beautiful, she hid him for three months. But when she could hide him no longer, she got him a wicker basket and covered it over with tar and pitch. Then she put the child into it, and set it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile. And his sister stood at a distance to find out what would happen to him. Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the Nile, with her maidens walking alongside the Nile; and she saw the basket among the reeds and sent her maid, and she brought it to her. When she opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the boy was crying. And she had pity on him and said, "This is one of the Hebrews' children." Then his sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, "Shall I go and call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for you?" And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go ahead." So the girl went and called the child's mother. Then Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child away and nurse him for me and I shall give you wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him. And the child grew, and she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she named him Moses, and said, "Because I drew him out of the water." (Exodus 1:22, 2:1-10, New American Standard Bible)


              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



              --- On Thu, 9/8/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
              Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the road to Paul, Claudia, Elisha
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 9:24 AM

               
              Hey Friends,
               
              at least here I don't mind to be clobered:)
               
              So on the road to Paul I find this:
               
              Jonah
              Saul
              Paul
               
              What they all have in common, or their gesture is:
               
              Jonah and Saul  hide from God
               
              Jonah already initated which is why as Saul he can experience the risen Christ whereas Lazarus had not experienced it in that manner specifically which is why he also has to go into the 'whale' of the earth whereas Jonah did it in water, etheric. Paul sees the Christ in the etheric light
               
              Saul and Paul great military leaders crucifying others:
               
              Saul, old testament,l persecutes those who say DAvid is King
               
              Paul, new testamen,t persecutes Christians who say Jesus is King
               
              On Claudia Procula gesture: Pharoahs daughter saves Moses from Pharoah as does she attempt to do for ChristJesus, this was my consideration....
               
              On Elisha and Elijah gesture, I can see a connection between Lazarus as Elisha and John the Baptist we know as Elijah come again
               
              And the reason for the seeking is the mystery of the I AM.
               
              All good things,
              Dottie
               
               
               
               
               
               


               
              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

            • dottie zold
              On the road to Paul:   Jonah in the belly of the whale   Moses pulled out from the belly of a palmtree: floating on water:) Gesture from both including Saul:
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 8, 2011
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                On the road to Paul:
                 
                Jonah in the belly of the whale
                 
                Moses pulled out from the belly of a palmtree: floating on water:)
                Gesture from both including Saul: hidden
                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Thu, 9/8/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the road to Paul, Claudia, Elisha
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 9:33 AM

                 
                Friends,
                 
                Old Testament:
                Pharaoh's father has a dream that ends up with him 'killing' new born males
                Pharaoh's daughter saves him
                 
                instead of dying Moses is brought into the Pharoahs house unbeknownst to him and leads the people to freedom
                 
                New Testament:
                Claudia has the dream and tells Pilate that he should have nothing to do with the death of this man
                Pilate has no choice but to go forward with what he had already wrought
                 
                Instead of dying the Christ is born into the earth
                 
                 
                And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have had a dream, but no one can interpret it; and I have heard it said about you, that when you hear a dream you can interpret it." Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, "It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh a favorable answer." So Pharaoh spoke to Joseph, "In my dream, behold, I was standing on the bank of the Nile; and behold, seven cows, fat and sleek came up out of the Nile; and they grazed in the marsh grass. "And lo, seven other cows came up after them, poor and very ugly and gaunt, such as I had never seen for ugliness in all the land of Egypt; and the lean and ugly cows ate up the first seven fat cows. Yet when they devoured them, it could not be detected that they had devoured them; for they were just as ugly as before. Then I awoke.
                I saw also in my dream, and behold, seven ears, full and good, came up on a single stalk; and lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them; and the thin ears swallowed the seven good ears. Then I told it to the magicians, but there was no one who could explain it to me."
                Now Joseph said to Pharaoh, "Pharaoh's dreams are one and the same; God has told to Pharaoh what He is about to do. The seven good cows are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years; the dreams are one and the same. And the seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven thin ears scorched by the east wind shall be seven years of famine. It is as I have spoken to Pharaoh: God has shown to Pharaoh what He is about to do. Behold, seven years of great abundance are coming in all the land of Egypt; and after them seven years of famine will come, and all the abundance will be forgotten in the land of Egypt; and the famine will ravage the land. So the abundance will be unknown in the land because of that subsequent famine; for it will be very severe." (Genesis41:15-31, New American Standard Bible)
                The Baby Moses

                Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born you are to cast into the Nile, and every daughter you are to keep alive."
                Now a man from the house of Levi went and married a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived and bore a son; and when she saw that he was beautiful, she hid him for three months. But when she could hide him no longer, she got him a wicker basket and covered it over with tar and pitch. Then she put the child into it, and set it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile. And his sister stood at a distance to find out what would happen to him. Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the Nile, with her maidens walking alongside the Nile; and she saw the basket among the reeds and sent her maid, and she brought it to her. When she opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the boy was crying. And she had pity on him and said, "This is one of the Hebrews' children." Then his sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, "Shall I go and call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for you?" And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go ahead." So the girl went and called the child's mother. Then Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child away and nurse him for me and I shall give you wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him. And the child grew, and she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she named him Moses, and said, "Because I drew him out of the water." (Exodus 1:22, 2:1-10, New American Standard Bible)


                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Thu, 9/8/11, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the road to Paul, Claudia, Elisha
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 9:24 AM

                 
                Hey Friends,
                 
                at least here I don't mind to be clobered:)
                 
                So on the road to Paul I find this:
                 
                Jonah
                Saul
                Paul
                 
                What they all have in common, or their gesture is:
                 
                Jonah and Saul  hide from God
                 
                Jonah already initated which is why as Saul he can experience the risen Christ whereas Lazarus had not experienced it in that manner specifically which is why he also has to go into the 'whale' of the earth whereas Jonah did it in water, etheric. Paul sees the Christ in the etheric light
                 
                Saul and Paul great military leaders crucifying others:
                 
                Saul, old testament,l persecutes those who say DAvid is King
                 
                Paul, new testamen,t persecutes Christians who say Jesus is King
                 
                On Claudia Procula gesture: Pharoahs daughter saves Moses from Pharoah as does she attempt to do for ChristJesus, this was my consideration....
                 
                On Elisha and Elijah gesture, I can see a connection between Lazarus as Elisha and John the Baptist we know as Elijah come again
                 
                And the reason for the seeking is the mystery of the I AM.
                 
                All good things,
                Dottie
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 


                 
                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

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