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Oslo in the world headlines

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  • elfuncle
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 22, 2011
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      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

      This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)

      They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.

      Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.

      Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.

      (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)

      Tarjei
    • elfuncle
      Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party s immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 22, 2011
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        Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.

        One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.

        Tarjei

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
        >
        > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
        >
        > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
        >
        > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
        >
        > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
        >
        > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
        >
        > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
        >
        > Tarjei
        >
      • elfuncle
        The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 22, 2011
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          The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special care of their souls (which means we should pray for them vigilantly and bless them 24/7) will probably make efforts to establish that he's an anthroposophist or a Waldorf person of some sort.

          Tarjei

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
          >
          > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
          >
          > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
          >
          > Tarjei
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
          > >
          > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
          > >
          > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
          > >
          > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
          > >
          > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
          > >
          > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
          > >
          > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
          > >
          > > Tarjei
          > >
          >
        • dottie zold
          Fine lines in governing.... sorry to hear fear keeps reaching out is ugly hand.... d Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 22, 2011
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            Fine lines in governing.... sorry to hear fear keeps reaching out is ugly hand.... d

            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



            --- On Fri, 7/22/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

            From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Oslo in the world headlines
            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, July 22, 2011, 5:36 PM

             
            The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special care of their souls (which means we should pray for them vigilantly and bless them 24/7) will probably make efforts to establish that he's an anthroposophist or a Waldorf person of some sort.

            Tarjei

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
            >
            > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
            >
            > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
            >
            > Tarjei
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
            > >
            > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
            > >
            > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
            > >
            > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
            > >
            > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
            > >
            > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
            > >
            > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
            > >
            > > Tarjei
            > >
            >

          • elfuncle
            The madman is a patriot. A nationalist. An Islamophobe. A racist. Hunting is a favorite hobby of his, especially kids apparently. (He killed more than 80
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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              The madman is a patriot. A nationalist. An Islamophobe. A racist. Hunting is a favorite hobby of his, especially kids apparently. (He killed more than 80 teenagers with his automatic weapon, posing as a police officer.) It was a reaction against tolerance, anti-racism, and multi-culturalism. (That's why those dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community probably think he's an anthroposophist.)

              Norwegian neo-Nazis and racists have always called themselves "patriots," waving the flag and all that. (That's why I never display flags except small web-flags to indicate the languages of texts.)

              This must be a special shock for the madman's fellow ideologues who share his animosity towards Muslims and political sentiments, who immediately thought al-Qaeda or some similar Islamist group was behind it, with a certain measure of glee. (At least one such group had the stupid audacity to claim responsibility, promising more mayhem to come, those twits.)

              Tarjei

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
              >
              > Fine lines in governing.... sorry to hear fear keeps reaching out is ugly hand.... d
              >
              >
              > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Fri, 7/22/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
              > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Oslo in the world headlines
              > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Friday, July 22, 2011, 5:36 PM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special care of their souls (which means we should pray for them vigilantly and bless them 24/7) will probably make efforts to establish that he's an anthroposophist or a Waldorf person of some sort.
              >
              > Tarjei
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
              > >
              > > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
              > >
              > > Tarjei
              > >
              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
              > > >
              > > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
              > > >
              > > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
              > > >
              > > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
              > > >
              > > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
              > > >
              > > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
              > > >
              > > > Tarjei
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • elfuncle
              Let me switch to the Dark Side for a change and give our dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs a helping hand: The madman made his explosives from artificial
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                Let me switch to the Dark Side for a change and give our dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs a helping hand: The madman made his explosives from artificial fertilizers, and to obtain this material, he started a company called Biofarm. Biofarm! Maybe there's a link to biodynamic there, especially when "biodynamic" is similar to bio-dynamite or something.

                And Frank, your Officer Krupke from West Side Story over in the Wisdom Community was misplaced, because you need to remember that the Sugar Cherubs have no sense of humor (they only laugh when an anthroposophist is in grief or in pain and agony, especially after accidentally shooting himself), they hate music because they hate life, they have no sense of rhythm, they hate dance and eurythmy and painting and art and religion and spirituality. That's why we need to bless them and pray for them and maybe sing to them, but Officer Krupke is too advanced, it only makes them angrier. Try Ave Maria instead.

                Tarjei

                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                >
                > The madman is a patriot. A nationalist. An Islamophobe. A racist. Hunting is a favorite hobby of his, especially kids apparently. (He killed more than 80 teenagers with his automatic weapon, posing as a police officer.) It was a reaction against tolerance, anti-racism, and multi-culturalism. (That's why those dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community probably think he's an anthroposophist.)
                >
                > Norwegian neo-Nazis and racists have always called themselves "patriots," waving the flag and all that. (That's why I never display flags except small web-flags to indicate the languages of texts.)
                >
                > This must be a special shock for the madman's fellow ideologues who share his animosity towards Muslims and political sentiments, who immediately thought al-Qaeda or some similar Islamist group was behind it, with a certain measure of glee. (At least one such group had the stupid audacity to claim responsibility, promising more mayhem to come, those twits.)
                >
                > Tarjei
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Fine lines in governing.... sorry to hear fear keeps reaching out is ugly hand.... d
                > >
                > >
                > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- On Fri, 7/22/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > From: elfuncle <elfuncle@>
                > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Oslo in the world headlines
                > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Friday, July 22, 2011, 5:36 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special care of their souls (which means we should pray for them vigilantly and bless them 24/7) will probably make efforts to establish that he's an anthroposophist or a Waldorf person of some sort.
                > >
                > > Tarjei
                > >
                > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
                > > >
                > > > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
                > > >
                > > > Tarjei
                > > >
                > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
                > > > >
                > > > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
                > > > >
                > > > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
                > > > >
                > > > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
                > > > >
                > > > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
                > > > >
                > > > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
                > > > >
                > > > > Tarjei
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • ted.wrinch
                I found Frank s post very funny, a classic. It reduced the Herr Doktor Professor to inarticulacy. As he doesn t do humour, beyond sarcasm, or profundity,
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                  I found Frank's post very funny, a classic. It reduced the Herr Doktor Professor to inarticulacy. As he doesn't do humour, beyond sarcasm, or profundity, beyond his far left causes, he was reduced to the usual supercilious, and now strangely pathetic, 'yours for reading'.

                  I find his boilerplate remarkably predictable these days - a kind of progress. If I look at his response to my post of quotes of Steiner on Judaism (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11609), that I lobbed over there years ago, I can recognise the same twists and turns of polemical and evasive thought that he uses today; and indeed I think has been using since he stumbled across Steiner in his early eco-socialism days in Germany, over a decade ago. These twists are well known to us and allow him to avoid ever addressing the spiritual content of Steiner's work.

                  An example in that post is his response to Steiner's observation that the beginning of a consciousness limited to the physical world was first inculcated in Abraham by the gods. His response followed a now familiar and predictable pattern:

                  "Another standard antisemitic trope centers on associating Jews with ostensibly
                  unspiritual forms of thinking, particulary abstract thought, materialism,
                  quantification, calculation, merely external knowledge rather than internal
                  knowledge, and so forth."

                  He ignores the fact that within Steiner's system of thought the limitation of consciousness to the physical world was part of the intended development of humanity, to allow us to develop our individuality in freedom. Abraham and the Jewish people prefigured a state of being that all of us are now living through. Without this state we would not develop freedom and the goal of the Earth would be missed. As I said in my introduction to my post, this is not anti-Semitism and instead shows a deep appreciation of Judaism; an appreciation, indeed, that the prof has never shown.

                  But, in summary, after all this time, he still doesn't 'take the spiritual in history seriously' and in fact rubbishes everything spiritual that comes his way.

                  T.

                  Ted Wrinch

                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Let me switch to the Dark Side for a change and give our dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs a helping hand: The madman made his explosives from artificial fertilizers, and to obtain this material, he started a company called Biofarm. Biofarm! Maybe there's a link to biodynamic there, especially when "biodynamic" is similar to bio-dynamite or something.
                  >
                  > And Frank, your Officer Krupke from West Side Story over in the Wisdom Community was misplaced, because you need to remember that the Sugar Cherubs have no sense of humor (they only laugh when an anthroposophist is in grief or in pain and agony, especially after accidentally shooting himself), they hate music because they hate life, they have no sense of rhythm, they hate dance and eurythmy and painting and art and religion and spirituality. That's why we need to bless them and pray for them and maybe sing to them, but Officer Krupke is too advanced, it only makes them angrier. Try Ave Maria instead.
                  >
                  > Tarjei
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The madman is a patriot. A nationalist. An Islamophobe. A racist. Hunting is a favorite hobby of his, especially kids apparently. (He killed more than 80 teenagers with his automatic weapon, posing as a police officer.) It was a reaction against tolerance, anti-racism, and multi-culturalism. (That's why those dear and sweet Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community probably think he's an anthroposophist.)
                  > >
                  > > Norwegian neo-Nazis and racists have always called themselves "patriots," waving the flag and all that. (That's why I never display flags except small web-flags to indicate the languages of texts.)
                  > >
                  > > This must be a special shock for the madman's fellow ideologues who share his animosity towards Muslims and political sentiments, who immediately thought al-Qaeda or some similar Islamist group was behind it, with a certain measure of glee. (At least one such group had the stupid audacity to claim responsibility, promising more mayhem to come, those twits.)
                  > >
                  > > Tarjei
                  > >
                  > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Fine lines in governing.... sorry to hear fear keeps reaching out is ugly hand.... d
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- On Fri, 7/22/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: elfuncle <elfuncle@>
                  > > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Oslo in the world headlines
                  > > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Friday, July 22, 2011, 5:36 PM
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The 32-year old in custody is a blond, blue-eyed Christian far right extremist. The Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community (WC), who are all in need of special care of their souls (which means we should pray for them vigilantly and bless them 24/7) will probably make efforts to establish that he's an anthroposophist or a Waldorf person of some sort.
                  > > >
                  > > > Tarjei
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Tarjei
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Tarjei
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • elfuncle
                  ... Of course it was funny, but the Sugar Cherubs don t understand that, it only frustrates them. In the Wisdom Community, fun is off-topic and ad hominem and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I found Frank's post very funny, a classic.

                    Of course it was funny, but the Sugar Cherubs don't understand that, it only frustrates them. In the Wisdom Community, fun is off-topic and ad hominem and so on, it's verboten; Frank got away with it only because the moderator wasn't paying attention.

                    Tarjei
                  • ted.wrinch
                    Taz: my deepest condolences for the loss of life in the emerging tragedy in your country. Peace be on all their souls. It s a wrench to continue the subject of
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                      Taz: my deepest condolences for the loss of life in the emerging tragedy in your country. Peace be on all their souls.

                      It's a wrench to continue the subject of my post after that but needs must. Kim has just posted a bit from one of Steiner's lecture series that touches on the spiritual in history - real history, not the prof's fable convenu. He's talking about the Sibyls (the quotes are from the Four Sacrifices of Christ I think):

                      "Michelangelo painted it. In the Sibyls he showed what had threatened mankind. With wonderful skill he made them express the human types of those who felt the coming derangement of the ego, so that although all possible wisdom might come forth, human beings could neither manage nor direct it. Look at the way in which Michelangelo has painted the different degrees of derangement in egos given over to elemental beings.

                      Upon the other side, however, he gives us something else. In the same space he has painted the musing figures of prophecy whose aspect shows the illumination of what preserves the integrity of the ego toward the cosmos. It touches us deeply when we see in the prophets the urgency, the pressure toward the ego and, on the other side, human beings suffering disorder through the ego itself. Then, standing in this space, is the Christ, incarnate in a human body, Who had to bring into order and harmony the ego that was to come into the world."

                      So it was the Jewish prophets that expressed the most human form of clairvoyance in the millenium before Christ. So much for the prof's 'antisemitic tropes', that he accuses Steiner of utilising. The prof misses out that in Steiner's system the Jewish people prefigured our modern ego consciousness, as well as a consciousness that was to be increasingly limited to the physical. This is not accidental of course, as the development of the Ego in Steiner's system is tied to the development of the physical body.

                      T.

                      Ted Wrinch

                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                      > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I found Frank's post very funny, a classic.
                      >
                      > Of course it was funny, but the Sugar Cherubs don't understand that, it
                      > only frustrates them. In the Wisdom Community, fun is off-topic and ad
                      > hominem and so on, it's verboten; Frank got away with it only because
                      > the moderator wasn't paying attention.
                      >
                      > Tarjei
                      >
                    • Frank Thomas Smith
                      ... Hi Tarjei, This story is all over the front pages and TV news channels of the world. At first *everyone* - you, me, the pundits and experts - thought it
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Looks like a possible neo-Nazi so far, perhaps protesting the Labor Party's immigration policy, who knows. That would be a slap in the face of those islamic orgs now taking credit for the events. Media speculations and theories and guesswork, especially in the tabloids, are way ahead of confirmed facts as usual.
                        >
                        > One more thing: The CNN reported shock and anger in Norway. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not America, there's no anger here. This is not a nation into revenge and strike back and that kind of stuff that the US govt and corporate media whipped up and exploited to the full after 9/11, but we can probably expect to move a few inches closer to a police state, just like other countries that have been hit like this.
                        >

                        Hi Tarjei,
                        This story is all over the front pages and TV news channels of the world. At first *everyone* - you, me, the pundits and experts - thought it must be Muslim fanatics. And the question was: Why Norway? There have been news reports about Norway itself - about which the world has been pretty ignorant: constitutional monarchy, very democratic, liberal (leftist) govt. Laid back, peaceful (despite a token force in Afghanistan). Ironically it turns out to be a *Christian* fanatic. This paragraph was in the NY Times:
                        "If he is convicted for the crimes under Norwegian law, Mr. Breivik would face a maximum sentence of 21 years, according to the police, meaning that unless he were found unfit for release for some reason he would be freed well before he turned 60. Norway abolished capital punishment in 1905." It that possible???
                        Frank

                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html
                        > >
                        > > This is huge. The blast was so powerful that glass windows were shattered all over the downtown area. I've often parked my car right in front of that govt building where the explosion came from. At the same time, some dude dressed up as a cop has shot to death something between 20 and 50 kids and youngsters at the Labor Party camp while swimming. (The Labor Party is the bulk of the present coalition government.)
                        > >
                        > > They STILL don't get it. This is apparently the consequence of participating in the military interference and occupation of Afghanistan, installing unpopular US-friendly Quisling governments and killing civilians daily with bombings and street-shootings. Norway and its NATO allies have been doing this for years and years, to a people that has never done anything to us. Nor to the US -- 18 of the 9/11 skyjackers were Saudis, bin Laden was Saudi, frustrated by the US-supported corrupt regime.
                        > >
                        > > Norwegians are so naive and innocent, not realizing that their politicians are participating in this dangerously flawed foreign policy. And the consequence will be that Norway will inch closer to a police state with more authority and power for the police and the military, at the expense of civil rights and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty.
                        > >
                        > > Pull all military troops out of all Arab countries, and you'll see an end to this type of terror, provided that the International MotherFuckers (the IMF) stop their arm-twisting and extortions and the CIA stops their mischief, which began with the British a century ago.
                        > >
                        > > (Once in a rare while the 4-letter word is appropriate. Use it too often, and it gets inflated.)
                        > >
                        > > Tarjei
                        > >
                        >
                      • elfuncle
                        ... world. At first *everyone* - you, me, the pundits and experts - thought it must be Muslim fanatics. You know, that s weird, because again I ve learned
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts.trasla@...> wrote:

                          > Hi Tarjei,
                          > This story is all over the front pages and TV news channels of the world. At first *everyone* - you, me, the pundits and experts - thought it must be Muslim fanatics.


                          You know, that's weird, because again I've learned something about my spontaneous hunches, that I'm not in the habit of trusting, so I lean on my intellect instead.

                          I was at home in the suburb when it happened, a fifteen minute drive from the downtown blast area, and when someone said turn on the news and I saw the debris, my first thought was neo-Nazis, I swear! But then my "logic" kicked in, and I said nah, they're so few and so badly organized they could never pull this off. So I thought al-Qaeda and that stuff. But when the kids were shot at the Utoya island -- there were 650 of them and at least 85 were murdered -- it's a youth camp for the Labor Party -- that simply did not compute with Islamist terrorism. As an expert said, the Islamists would have targeted the main railway station or some similar crowded spot, not a government building. That's Timothy McVeigh's M.O. all the way, including the car bomb. (Oklahoma City 1995)

                          > And the question was: Why Norway? There have been news reports about Norway itself - about which the world has been pretty ignorant: constitutional monarchy, very democratic, liberal (leftist) govt. Laid back, peaceful (despite a token force in Afghanistan). Ironically it turns out to be a *Christian* fanatic.

                          Breivik's actions were not religiously motivated, they were politically motivated. He was a member of a Swedish Nazi forum and things like that. The madman's target was the Norwegian Labor Party because of their ideals of tolerance, anti-racism, and multi-culturalism.

                          > This paragraph was in the NY Times:
                          > "If he is convicted for the crimes under Norwegian law, Mr. Breivik would face a maximum sentence of 21 years, according to the police, meaning that unless he were found unfit for release for some reason he would be freed well before he turned 60. Norway abolished capital punishment in 1905." It that possible???


                          It's true that the maximum penalty in Norway for ANY crime is 21 years in prison. Besides, you're always released after serving two thirds of the sentence unless you've behaved extremely badly (in 1969, I got 7 months for cannabis and was released after 5 months), so under normal circumstances, say if you get 21 years for severe drug offenses, you're released after 14 years. But that's not likely to happen to homicidal maniacs, pedophiles and the like. My sloppy and uneducated guess is that Breivik will serve 14 years in a maximum security, then 7 years in a half way house, and his sentence may include something called "forvaring" (i.e. continued close supervision or custody) after release if he'll still be considered dangerous. So even if he's released many years from now, they may in fact never let him out of sight -- at least not until he's very, very old and no longer considered a risk from a psychological standpoint. (The shrinks are extremely powerful in such court cases.)

                          About the death penalty: As we all know, all of Europe eliminated the death penalty many decades ago, after a twelve year terror regime with daily executions on every street corner. And Norway in particular passed a specific law thirty-two years ago which permanently bans the death penalty, even if the country should be at war(!) This is the influence of the Christ Impulse in Europe over time, in the best sense of the word. It's also the influence of true and genuine humanism.

                          The Labor Party, which was Breivik's target (including the youth camp), has been the most powerful and influential political force in Norway throughout the post-war years, and this is the very party that hammered the final, permanent nails into the coffin of the death penalty.

                          In 1905, when Norway gained its independence from Sweden and became a separate nation proper, the death penalty was abolished for civilians, but it was upheld for the military. This meant that the death penalty could only be used in wartime and never against persons under 18 years of age.

                          In connection with WWII and the Nazi occupation 1940–45, permission to apply the death penalty was expanded to include Norwegian traitors and foreign war criminals. 

                          Immediately after the war, 24 Norwegians, 1 Dane, and 13 Germans were executed in Norway. The last execution took place in 1948. (Vidkun Quisling was executed by firing squad at Akershus Fort in Oslo 24 October 1945.)

                          In 1950, the laws were revised with regard to treason, including the rules governing the death penalty. A new military law was passed, allowing the death penalty in extremely severe cases treason in wartime.

                          Because of the development in other Nordic countries and elsewhere, the laws about the death penalty in military cases and all other cases were abolished on June 8, 1979. The major argument for the abolition was the principle of life's inviolability. To the best of my layman's understanding, this law is final, constitutional, and irreversible.

                          Now, what should you tell the Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community? Well first off, they should know that our mild penalties compared to the US are due to our philosophy of letting criminals and even psychopaths work out their karma, because we're all anthroposophists in Norway (except a few grouches who piggy-tail on the WC'ers).

                          Secondly, you should remind them that the Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg, who at the present time seems to be regarded as a first class hero on the world stage these days (and deservedly so), is in fact a Waldorf graduate.

                          I hope it doesn't ruin their delicious dinner. Please give them my bear hugs and my sweet, sloppy kisses.

                          Tarjei
                        • dottie zold
                          I didn t think it was muslims rather a fanatic and that could be any. I was thinking how Lightsearcher used to be ranting against the muslims in Norway and it
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 23, 2011
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                            I didn't think it was muslims rather a fanatic and that could be any. I was thinking how Lightsearcher used to be ranting against the muslims in Norway and it was really awful and that gave me a clue to what was too going on there with the fanatical far right like we see sometimes in Austria etc.
                             
                            I just read a quote that said 'it was atrocious but it was necessary' shared from the maniacs lawyer. Disgusting.
                             
                            All good things,
                            Dottie

                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                            --- On Sat, 7/23/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

                            From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
                            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Prison, death penalty, the WC (was: Oslo in the world headlines)
                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, July 23, 2011, 6:22 PM

                             

                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts.trasla@...> wrote:

                            > Hi Tarjei,
                            > This story is all over the front pages and TV news channels of the world. At first *everyone* - you, me, the pundits and experts - thought it must be Muslim fanatics.


                            You know, that's weird, because again I've learned something about my spontaneous hunches, that I'm not in the habit of trusting, so I lean on my intellect instead.

                            I was at home in the suburb when it happened, a fifteen minute drive from the downtown blast area, and when someone said turn on the news and I saw the debris, my first thought was neo-Nazis, I swear! But then my "logic" kicked in, and I said nah, they're so few and so badly organized they could never pull this off. So I thought al-Qaeda and that stuff. But when the kids were shot at the Utoya island -- there were 650 of them and at least 85 were murdered -- it's a youth camp for the Labor Party -- that simply did not compute with Islamist terrorism. As an expert said, the Islamists would have targeted the main railway station or some similar crowded spot, not a government building. That's Timothy McVeigh's M.O. all the way, including the car bomb. (Oklahoma City 1995)

                            > And the question was: Why Norway? There have been news reports about Norway itself - about which the world has been pretty ignorant: constitutional monarchy, very democratic, liberal (leftist) govt. Laid back, peaceful (despite a token force in Afghanistan). Ironically it turns out to be a *Christian* fanatic.

                            Breivik's actions were not religiously motivated, they were politically motivated. He was a member of a Swedish Nazi forum and things like that. The madman's target was the Norwegian Labor Party because of their ideals of tolerance, anti-racism, and multi-culturalism.

                            > This paragraph was in the NY Times:
                            > "If he is convicted for the crimes under Norwegian law, Mr. Breivik would face a maximum sentence of 21 years, according to the police, meaning that unless he were found unfit for release for some reason he would be freed well before he turned 60. Norway abolished capital punishment in 1905." It that possible???


                            It's true that the maximum penalty in Norway for ANY crime is 21 years in prison. Besides, you're always released after serving two thirds of the sentence unless you've behaved extremely badly (in 1969, I got 7 months for cannabis and was released after 5 months), so under normal circumstances, say if you get 21 years for severe drug offenses, you're released after 14 years. But that's not likely to happen to homicidal maniacs, pedophiles and the like. My sloppy and uneducated guess is that Breivik will serve 14 years in a maximum security, then 7 years in a half way house, and his sentence may include something called "forvaring" (i.e. continued close supervision or custody) after release if he'll still be considered dangerous. So even if he's released many years from now, they may in fact never let him out of sight -- at least not until he's very, very old and no longer considered a risk from a psychological standpoint. (The shrinks are extremely powerful in such court cases.)

                            About the death penalty: As we all know, all of Europe eliminated the death penalty many decades ago, after a twelve year terror regime with daily executions on every street corner. And Norway in particular passed a specific law thirty-two years ago which permanently bans the death penalty, even if the country should be at war(!) This is the influence of the Christ Impulse in Europe over time, in the best sense of the word. It's also the influence of true and genuine humanism.

                            The Labor Party, which was Breivik's target (including the youth camp), has been the most powerful and influential political force in Norway throughout the post-war years, and this is the very party that hammered the final, permanent nails into the coffin of the death penalty.

                            In 1905, when Norway gained its independence from Sweden and became a separate nation proper, the death penalty was abolished for civilians, but it was upheld for the military. This meant that the death penalty could only be used in wartime and never against persons under 18 years of age.

                            In connection with WWII and the Nazi occupation 1940–45, permission to apply the death penalty was expanded to include Norwegian traitors and foreign war criminals. 

                            Immediately after the war, 24 Norwegians, 1 Dane, and 13 Germans were executed in Norway. The last execution took place in 1948. (Vidkun Quisling was executed by firing squad at Akershus Fort in Oslo 24 October 1945.)

                            In 1950, the laws were revised with regard to treason, including the rules governing the death penalty. A new military law was passed, allowing the death penalty in extremely severe cases treason in wartime.

                            Because of the development in other Nordic countries and elsewhere, the laws about the death penalty in military cases and all other cases were abolished on June 8, 1979. The major argument for the abolition was the principle of life's inviolability. To the best of my layman's understanding, this law is final, constitutional, and irreversible.

                            Now, what should you tell the Sugar Cherubs in the Wisdom Community? Well first off, they should know that our mild penalties compared to the US are due to our philosophy of letting criminals and even psychopaths work out their karma, because we're all anthroposophists in Norway (except a few grouches who piggy-tail on the WC'ers).

                            Secondly, you should remind them that the Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg, who at the present time seems to be regarded as a first class hero on the world stage these days (and deservedly so), is in fact a Waldorf graduate.

                            I hope it doesn't ruin their delicious dinner. Please give them my bear hugs and my sweet, sloppy kisses.

                            Tarjei
                          • elfuncle
                            ... Oslo was far from an unlikely target for islamic extremists, so this assumption did make sense at first. Security here has been very low compared to the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 24, 2011
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                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I didn't think it was muslims rather a fanatic and that could be any.


                              Oslo was far from an unlikely target for islamic extremists, so this assumption did make sense at first. Security here has been very low compared to the rest of Europe and other parts of the world, there's a lot of debate about that now because we'd like to keep it that way. I have personally engaged in casual conversations with politicians and incumbent government reps I've met on the street, in stores, in cafés and shops and so on over the years, and Norway has always been proud of this kind of openness between ordinary people and political leaders. Of course new security measures will be implemented after this, but they don't want this openness and availability to be reduced.

                              Tarjei
                            • dottie zold
                              I don t think people realize that the old terrorism that occurred is a different one that will occur today. They see it brought alot of heat on their people s
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 24, 2011
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                                I don't think people realize that the old terrorism that occurred is a different one that will occur today. They see it brought alot of heat on their people's heads and it wasn't worth it....only the ignorant will pursue such idiocacy in the future it seems to me.
                                 
                                I think on the extremist islam side you will see something akin to what took place and the reasoning for the cruscades.... we are recapitulating in a way, or so it seems to me, this period of time. So its now about infiltrating .... its more about Ahriman using Lucifer to get into the communities so that Sordat can swing by and collect his booty for the future. So the communities will be taken over by stealth, although it looks like inclusion, by the extremist, and only love will save the day between those who are extremist using the religion and god for their own use and those who truly are honoring something higher then them that lives in the heart.
                                 
                                I think we can see that a fundamentalist religious fevor on either side is what brings hate and those who are true lovers of man and the cultural religion they were born into can save the day through love and righteousness....
                                 
                                so are my thoughts on this sunday morn,
                                d

                                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                --- On Sun, 7/24/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

                                From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
                                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Prison, death penalty, the WC (was: Oslo in the world headlines)
                                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 7:24 AM

                                 

                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I didn't think it was muslims rather a fanatic and that could be any.


                                Oslo was far from an unlikely target for islamic extremists, so this assumption did make sense at first. Security here has been very low compared to the rest of Europe and other parts of the world, there's a lot of debate about that now because we'd like to keep it that way. I have personally engaged in casual conversations with politicians and incumbent government reps I've met on the street, in stores, in cafés and shops and so on over the years, and Norway has always been proud of this kind of openness between ordinary people and political leaders. Of course new security measures will be implemented after this, but they don't want this openness and availability to be reduced.

                                Tarjei
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