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Crime rate in U.S:

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  • Frank Thomas Smith
    The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has *decreased* considerably in the U.S. Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls
    Message 1 of 5 , May 24, 2011
      The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has *decreased* considerably in the U.S.

      "Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley.

      As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, "this would also be the last time to expect a crime decline," he said.

      "The last three years have been a contrarian's delight — just when you expect the bananas to hit the fan," said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the decline in the city's crime rate.

      But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.

      "The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am," he said."

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1&hp
    • Kim
      Maybe inversely correlated, there is less to steal, there is less temptations. In Denmark the crimerate has grown with the raise in income. My parents told
      Message 2 of 5 , May 27, 2011
        Maybe inversely correlated, there is less to steal, there is less
        temptations.
        In Denmark the crimerate has grown with the raise in income. My parents
        told that under the depression in the 1930's you could leave your purse
        in public without being taken. In my childhood the doors were not locked
        in daytime when we were on the parcel.

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
        <fts.trasla@...> wrote:
        >
        > The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has
        *decreased* considerably in the U.S.
        >
        > "Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question
        the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic
        hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law
        professor at the University of California, Berkeley.
        >
        > As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few
        years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed
        that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, "this
        would also be the last time to expect a crime decline," he said.
        >
        > "The last three years have been a contrarian's delight — just when
        you expect the bananas to hit the fan," said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law
        professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the
        decline in the city's crime rate.
        >
        > But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.
        >
        > "The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime
        experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am," he said."
        >
        > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1&hp
        >
      • dottie zold
        my experience on this is that those who do take from others also recognize that others are down like them and also have an empathy experience of the situation
        Message 3 of 5 , May 27, 2011
          my experience on this is that those who do take from others also recognize that others are down like them and also have an empathy experience of the situation  that we are all in this together. Those that are the real criminals in the sense that they have no conscious nor reflection about them don't care about anyone else but themselves and keep the doing whatever they do.

          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Fri, 5/27/11, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

          From: Kim <kimgm@...>
          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Crime rate in U.S:
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 2:20 AM

           
          Maybe inversely correlated, there is less to steal, there is less
          temptations.
          In Denmark the crimerate has grown with the raise in income. My parents
          told that under the depression in the 1930's you could leave your purse
          in public without being taken. In my childhood the doors were not locked
          in daytime when we were on the parcel.

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
          <fts.trasla@...> wrote:
          >
          > The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has
          *decreased* considerably in the U.S.
          >
          > "Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question
          the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic
          hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law
          professor at the University of California, Berkeley.
          >
          > As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few
          years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed
          that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, "this
          would also be the last time to expect a crime decline," he said.
          >
          > "The last three years have been a contrarian's delight — just when
          you expect the bananas to hit the fan," said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law
          professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the
          decline in the city's crime rate.
          >
          > But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.
          >
          > "The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime
          experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am," he said."
          >
          > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1&hp
          >

        • bikhe hozho
          Dear Kim: I really have to wonder sometimes.... The article in question is quite explicit: the cited rates refer to _violent_ crimes. Theft or stealing is
          Message 4 of 5 , May 27, 2011
            Dear Kim:

            I really have to wonder sometimes....


            The article in question is quite explicit: the cited rates refer to _violent_ crimes.


            Theft or "stealing" is quite clearly listed among the non-violent crimes. Furthermore, the urge to steal comes more from motive than from opportunity. As economic conditions worsen, people loose jobs and income, stabilizing social structures break down, theft goes up. Hungry desperate people cast on their own resources with no social safety net will - and do - steal to survive.

            People all across my city are waking up to find that thieves have stolen the catalytic converters out from underneath their cars as they were parked outside overnight.

            Stephen




            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
            >
            > Maybe inversely correlated, there is less to steal, there is less
            > temptations.
            > In Denmark the crimerate has grown with the raise in income. My parents
            > told that under the depression in the 1930's you could leave your purse
            > in public without being taken. In my childhood the doors were not locked
            > in daytime when we were on the parcel.
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
            > <fts.trasla@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has
            > *decreased* considerably in the U.S.
            > >
            > > "Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question
            > the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic
            > hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law
            > professor at the University of California, Berkeley.
            > >
            > > As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few
            > years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed
            > that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, "this
            > would also be the last time to expect a crime decline," he said.
            > >
            > > "The last three years have been a contrarian's delight — just when
            > you expect the bananas to hit the fan," said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law
            > professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the
            > decline in the city's crime rate.
            > >
            > > But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.
            > >
            > > "The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime
            > experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am," he said."
            > >
            > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1&hp
            > >
            >
          • Kim
            Hi Stephen, I don t particularly talk about a specific type of crime, simply about the possibilities of crime, and you have all variations of crime within the
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 11, 2011
              Hi Stephen,

              I don't particularly talk about a specific type of crime, simply about the possibilities of crime, and you have all variations of crime within the possible spectra, from theft, to violent robbery and murder, typically connected to various groups around narcotics or foreign groups exporting various goods to eastern countries. The more money there are involved in crime the more violence will be seen, it follows simply the normal distribution.

               You write: "As economic conditions worsen, people loose jobs and income, stabilizing social structures break down, theft goes up."
              Kim: Data tells something else! There is a tendency for people to help each other when crisis is knocking on the door. Just take WW2, the Danes helped each other more than ever.

               You write: " Hungry desperate people cast on their own resources with no social safety net will - and do - steal to survive."
              Kim: They didn't in the 1930's, and it seems to fall after the crisis, besides that no Danish citizen need to steal to survive, only to get narcotics. The world are more in crisis than not, so if your thesis was right, mankind should have been living in a Darwinistic hell, instead of having grown in knowledge and wealth.

              The biggest problem today are organized crime, we have gangs with Islamic background, MC groups, and foreign gangs foraging in Denmark from Romania, Lithuania, and other East European countries. And these groups are filling the prisons. This is not people on the brink of survival.

              Kim

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "bikhe hozho" <hozhonahasglii@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Kim:
              >
              > I really have to wonder sometimes....
              >
              >
              > The article in question is quite explicit: the cited rates refer to _violent_ crimes.
              >
              >
              > Theft or "stealing" is quite clearly listed among the non-violent crimes. Furthermore, the urge to steal comes more from motive than from opportunity. As economic conditions worsen, people loose jobs and income, stabilizing social structures break down, theft goes up. Hungry desperate people cast on their own resources with no social safety net will - and do - steal to survive.
              >
              > People all across my city are waking up to find that thieves have stolen the catalytic converters out from underneath their cars as they were parked outside overnight.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" kimgm@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Maybe inversely correlated, there is less to steal, there is less
              > > temptations.
              > > In Denmark the crimerate has grown with the raise in income. My parents
              > > told that under the depression in the 1930's you could leave your purse
              > > in public without being taken. In my childhood the doors were not locked
              > > in daytime when we were on the parcel.
              > >
              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
              > > <fts.trasla@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > The articletells how, despite economic hardship, violent crime has
              > > *decreased* considerably in the U.S.
              > > >
              > > > "Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question
              > > the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic
              > > hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law
              > > professor at the University of California, Berkeley.
              > > >
              > > > As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few
              > > years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed
              > > that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, "this
              > > would also be the last time to expect a crime decline," he said.
              > > >
              > > > "The last three years have been a contrarian's delight — just when
              > > you expect the bananas to hit the fan," said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law
              > > professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the
              > > decline in the city's crime rate.
              > > >
              > > > But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.
              > > >
              > > > "The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime
              > > experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am," he said."
              > > >
              > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1&hp
              > > >
              > >
              >
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