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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Trolls

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  • dottie zold
    I should say I am definitely not a fan of trolls in any case.   All good things, Dottie Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
    Message 1 of 114 , May 1, 2011
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      I should say I am definitely not a fan of trolls in any case.
      All good things,

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Sun, 5/1/11, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:

      From: Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...>
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Trolls
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, May 1, 2011, 1:35 PM


      Dottie: I've known Tarjei for over ten years and I have never seen him mean, direct and straight to the point yes, mean, no.

      Charlotte: Well I've seen it, but I've also seen much worse things and done worse myself in one way or another, if not trolling
      Dottie: This group was devised to take on the lies, fabrications and distortions regarding Rudolf Steiner.

      Charlotte: OK, I am just coming to understand this - I am quite new to the group and only got involved as I was searching online for discussion about Judith von Halle and found a link here from Google.

      Dottie: It was known from the beginning that the sensitive anthro might get caught in the middle and I have found that the warriors are always outside the circle and this is what allows the safety of the circle itself. So in essence, while the warriors do the battle and what can be considered and not understood by others, the dirty work so to speak, the more sensitive ones can keep doing their studies. It is a sacrafice whether or not it is recognized by the warrior or by the student.
      Charlotte: I think there are many many ways of 'warriorship' and I'm guessing that most people who actively find their way here have been engaged in 'lightworking' for many years, in their own way and seen 'both sides of the coin', dark and light, and understand the world isn't all rose tinted right now. While I understand that the trolling can be entertaining, especially if you've got a kind of siege mentality and a well-known enemey (ie, the WC), from a strictly spritiual/esoteric point of view, there are much better ways - the true warrior sets a perfect example with Michael as the guide, St George also, Sophia who crushed the serpent underfoot and so on. No amount of deception is substitute for the armour of God in the effectiveness stakes - warriors of light are warriors of peace and both the inner and outer circle don the Helmet of Salvation, Shield of Faith, Shoes of Peace, Sword of Peace and the Spirit, Breastplace of Righteousness, Belt of Truth....this is what we are given to work with.

      But I understand that once one 'gets into things', at some stage or other the abyss is encountered, and the Sophia aforementioned is dragged through the mud herself, her vision having been stolen by Lucifer - we all know the story of the fall and that it is Michael who restores the vision. There's no need to adopt the tactics of another. RS knew it, so did others and so should we...

      On a more elemental level, fairies and elves are more appropriate than trolls for the inner castle ground of light work  :-)

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Sat, 4/30/11, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:

      From: Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...>
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Trolls
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, April 30, 2011, 1:50 PM

      Just a word on trolls and trolling (at risk once again of being a boring stick in the mud).

      First of all (and I've no wish to start an argument or cause offence here), but I do think Taj is capable of being extremely mean when he feels like it and I've certainly been on the receiving end of his pissed-off ness. On the other hand I appreciate his fire and unwavering commitment to his causes and I don't think he is so utterly two faced in the way that Tom is - from a female point of view I find it genuinely scary when any man tries to gain my trust and then just 'turns', it is nasty horrible psycho behaviour in my opinion, which is why I stuck my neck out to warn Diana, who was actually talking to him on the phone. (to her credit, Diana at least listened, whereas the others on there seems blind to the irony of complaining about abuses while he carries on in such grotesque fashion) . I find it incredible that the WC puts up with his complete and utter hypocrisy but hounds everyone else out of town - it's a sign of their generally delusional state that they entertain such a prat but give hell to everyone else for no apparent reason.

      Second, having come to understand such frustrations caused by the other group I can see why people might resort to trolling them back out of sheer frustration, but in 90 per cent of cases I don't find it funny at all, whether it's me on the receiving end or someone else. I genuinely find it to be out of keeping with a true spiritual impulse, which is love based, although it isn't a dissimilar attitude to that of my old raving buddies. I guess  you could argue for tough love at times, but deceit? No, there isn't a place for it in a place supposedly devoted to spiritual study and I would timidly urge us all to try to stick like glue to the moral high ground (me included, I know I also have my moments of being arsey and quick to temper). 'Antis' - especially irrational and unreasonable ones - are always a nuisance but nothing can be gained from sinking to their level, two wrongs can't ever make a right.

      So I humbly and tentatively suggest that the excessive-trolling is a wee bit hard-bitten and dare I say manish - a bit more of the gentle divine feminine would do us all the world of good. The trolling just breeds confusion and we are supposed (or so I thought?) to be seeking truth and beauty and love and light and kindness and friendship - it isn't the same as taking the piss down the pub, when body language etc and general camaraderie can help guide people. We should remember the words of Corinthians about everything we say being no more than clashing gongs and cymbals (or such like) unless we speak with love - I don't think any of the great teachers would approve of wanton deception and continually tearing strips off one another....

      Just a thought, not trying to be contentious or to over lecture, I know this kind of thing often sounds dull as dishwater.

      I'm actually getting in the mood for May Day, it's a very biggie this time around!

      Oh and Midsummer Night's Dream I agree is sublime - not just the best Shakespeare play but one of the greatest literary works every created, a mystery drama indeed. :-)

      Peace :-)


      Ps - and in case anyone starts 'speculating', here or elsewhere, about Christian forgiveness and cheek turning, I fully take that point, but not to the degree where self or others are endangered in any way. Forgiveness is one thing, forgetting is another when there are constant reminders. Once bitten twice shy, as they say

      --- On Sat, 30/4/11, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:

      From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Trolls
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, 30 April, 2011, 21:20

      Of course I've seen "No Way Home," and I still have it somewhere....

      Incidentally, talking about Midsummer Night's Dream, it's Shakespeare's fault that I'm a cybertroller, because when my mom was pregnant with me, she played Puck on stage -- a role that fits a female as easily as a male....


      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs" <write3chairs@...> wrote:
      > > Jennifer, you are one of the few who understand the art of trolling and
      > > its mission, with a daughter playing Shakespeare and everything....
      > Tarjei, thanks for reminding me of those roles she played while still in high school, including queen of the fairies, Titania, in "A Midsummer Night's Dream." Fortunately, we have them on DVDs, although I haven't watched them in awhile. Yesterday, I spent almost the whole day uploading videos to YouTube, ten of them, a jazz recital she was in the night before. While waiting, I watched part one of the Bob Dylan documentary, "No Way Home." Have you seen it?
      > J.

    • elfuncle
      ... perhaps an Adorable Cherub, but I don t think he s really either. I think he s our first secular humanist fundamentalist. He expresses his views with such
      Message 114 of 114 , Jan 18, 2012
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
        > Tarjei has characterised Johan on WC as an Adorable Darling, or perhaps an Adorable Cherub, but I don't think he's really either. I think he's our first secular humanist fundamentalist. He expresses his views with such strength, and with such intransigence against all opposing views, that he's an oracle of secular humanism.

        He's supposed to be a riddle, an enigma, hard to define, impossible to understand. Obnoxious and irresistibly mysterious.

        > But, like Tom M, he seems unable to help himself throwing out interesting things amongst the chaos from time to time.

        Those are teasers, to keep them hooked and glued.

        > His latest post, accusing Alicia and Diana of being trolls (after accusing Janet Biel of being an eco-fascist!!. You can imagine Der Staudi's response :)) is one such and he references this fascinating Steiner critic blog that critiques the critics (this internecine warfare is starting to make my head spin). The authors are referring to our Diana, Alicia, Pete, and also another regular called Thetis Mecurio. Many of the abusive posts referred to as being on Alicia's blog have already been censored, as have these people, who have apparently been banned from the Alicias site, 'the Ethereal Kiosk'.

        He hates anthroposophy with a passion, he thinks it's extremely disgusting and reprehensible, dangerous and stomach-churning, Nazi and fascist and all that. Anthroposopphy is also eco-fascist, and Peter Staudenmaier is an eco-fascist agent for anthroposophy who is pretending to be a critic, and the others are his partners in crime.
        > An Open letter to all those identifying themselves as Steiner/Waldorf Critics.
        > 1. Do the critics generally approve of the aggressive behaviour of some critics towards people who've had negative experiences of the Steiner movement but whose methods may not be understood?

        Of course they do, no question about it.
        > 2. Do these people who apparently see themselves as gatekeepers of Steiner criticism actually represent the views of all critics?

        Their views are highly suspect.
        > We unfortunately have to report the fact that we have observed and experienced both passive aggression arising out of a self-protective "need" for anonymity which makes it very hard to call someone to account, and active aggression, which seeks to destroy that which it says it does not understand, by means of public mobbing behaviour.

        They are very aggressive, so he has to address that issue.
        > Either of these forces could have a very negative effect on anyone, but especially on families coming out of damaging scenarios at Steiner schools, where they experienced the schools' cultish, xenophobic, and often brutish behaviour.  Finding such aggression among those apparently `critical' of the awful behaviour of Steiner schools, could very well become a wounding force even worse than the original, due to the secondary nature of the wounding together with a reasonable expectation of finding, among those claiming to be critical of Steiner education, at least a fair hearing.

        That's the point: They're pretending to be critical of Waldorf while they're secretly working for its global dominance.
        > ...
        > It is shocking to have to flag up such behaviours in the critics, but it gets worse because in mobbing us, Alicia Hamberg has clearly positioned herself as a protector of Steiner Critics generally, with significant influence and the apparent power to "endorse" projects. In banning us and professing the need to warn others about us; she has acted as a Gatekeeper.

        There you go. They're Anthroposophists, Jesuits, Freemasons, and Fascists all of them, with gatekeepers and deceptions and a secret and dangerous totalitarian agenda.

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