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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit

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  • Charlotte Cowell
    I m not really sure what the Hole is and have never heard of this professor - maybe he does need stopping , I used to have the fire for that kind of thing
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 7, 2011
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      I'm not really sure what the 'Hole' is and have never heard of this professor - maybe he does need 'stopping', I used to have the fire for that kind of thing but not so much anymore. Then again, we all have our causes and some things still do get to me. My problem I guess is I spent many years working with a group that was characterised by violent, mindless in-fighting between catholics and anthroposophists, which was a terrible shame as the wealth of spiritual knowledge held between members was enormous, just not put to good use in a group context (for the most part, though some people did try persistently).

      In that respect I am very wary about indulging in any kind of polemic across cyberspace as it tends to lead to what I term 'electrical' damage. I appreciate the prof may well be the instigator, though, so if you feel it's a cause worth fighting for then who am I to say it's best not to bother. There's turning the other cheek and then there's being blind to lies, corruption and injustice - not the same thing....like I say, I'm just more wary of 'engagement' these days.

      Not sure what you mean by Manichean in this context, I am not Manichean as far as I'm aware, I'm Christian with deep roots in Hibernia and certainly haven't spent my life ignoring the physical aspects of my existence, although I do think there's something to be said for 'rising above' the mud wrestling if it can possibly be avoided :-)

      --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:

      From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 23:08

       

      It's a nice sentiment that I fully endorse. We can and should do all that we are able to to help support the good. But, I can't see that this should extend to condoning, accepting or ignoring the lies and spirit-scoffing from the Herr Professor. The Manichean way would be the best; but as that's not a technique I have much talent at I think I'm best sticking to the more intellectual approach that I can manage. By taking this approach, I can and was easily able to demonstrate PS's complete incompetence and dishonesty over in the Hole. And that's something of value in my book.

      T.

      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think it's time we all let ourselves let go of the past - not our
      > memories of love, beauty, hopes and dreams etc, but just the things
      > that drag us down either individually or collectively. The peaceful
      > evolution of the world and all of our souls is paramount, it should all
      > be about good vibrations now, more than ever.
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't say this from a tree top whilst imbibing cannabis or LSD, I say
      > it from a sense of exhaustion at all the fighting in the world - and a
      > desire to hang onto the small spark of life that still has faith that
      > the human race can (and will) drag itself out of the mire. Here and now
      > is always a good time/place to walk the line, we can help each other
      > along the way.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
      > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 22:15
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
      >
      >
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
      >
      >
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
      >
      >
      >
      > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
      >
      >
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
      >
      >
      >
      > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
      >
      >
      >
      > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
      >
      >
      >
      > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
      >
      >
      >
      > T.
      >
      >
      >
      > Ted Wrinch
      >


    • val2160
      ... buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist,
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 7, 2011
      • 0 Attachment


        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
        >
        > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
        >
        > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
        >
        > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
        >
        > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
        >
        > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
        >
        > T.
        >
        > Ted Wrinch

        I had forgotten about  this beginning this year.  The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings  is two-fold as I understand it.  The Church is attempting  to provide a more cohesive and comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all people, regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val

      • ted.wrinch
        Frank s response over in the Hole to Peter s orbit was: You are an miserable, egotistical, slanderous, arrogant, abominable liar Peter. I don t think that
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 7, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Frank's response over in the Hole to Peter's orbit was:

          "You are an miserable, egotistical, slanderous, arrogant, abominable liar
          Peter."

          I don't think that the term 'arrogant' adequately describes the state of mind of an 'historian' that, without qualification, believes:

          that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews'.

          'Ego-maniac' would seem to be a more accurate description.

          T.

          Ted Wrinch

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
          >
          > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
          >
          > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
          >
          > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
          >
          > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
          >
          > T.
          >
          > Ted Wrinch
          >
        • ted.wrinch
          he Hole and the Abyss and the Toilet are all designations for the Waldorf Critics forum. The terms are part of a bigger, humorous mythology that Tarjei
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            he 'Hole' and the 'Abyss' and the 'Toilet' are all designations for the Waldorf Critics forum. The terms are part of a bigger, humorous mythology that Tarjei Straume invented that more fully expresses the nature of the place than its name. The prof is a 'scholar of the esoteric', based at Montana, who has spent over a decade engaging in what he calls 'criticism', 'rational debate' and 'public discussion', targeted at attacking Rudolph Steiner and the anthroposophical movement. He is both very clever and very dishonest, claiming to be an atheist that 'takes the spirit in history' seriously - he doesn't. I fully appreciate your disinclination to engage in polemics and group in-fighting and I'd certainly have to say that much of the fighting I've engaged in with the prof has been little above the mindless level, often due to the need to try to clear a path through the fallacies, ad-hominems and other verbiage that he uses as part of his debating technique - he's the expert at this kind of thing, apparently having honed his skills in the trenches of left, atheist politics. Manicheism is a philosophy that believes that evil can be transformed into the good. You say that you have roots in Hibernia - do you mean that you come from the emerald isle?

            T.

            Ted Wrinch

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm not really sure what the 'Hole' is and have never heard of this professor - maybe he does need 'stopping', I used to have the fire for that kind of thing but not so much anymore. Then again, we all have our causes and some things still do get to me. My problem I guess is I spent many years working with a group that was characterised by violent, mindless in-fighting between catholics and anthroposophists, which was a terrible shame as the wealth of spiritual knowledge held between members was enormous, just not put to good use in a group context (for the most part, though some people did try persistently).
            >
            > In that respect I am very wary about indulging in any kind of polemic across cyberspace as it tends to lead to what I term 'electrical' damage. I appreciate the prof may well be the instigator, though, so if you feel it's a cause worth fighting for then who am I to say it's best not to bother. There's turning the other cheek and then there's being blind to lies, corruption and injustice - not the same thing....like I say, I'm just more wary of 'engagement' these days.
            >
            > Not sure what you mean by Manichean in this context, I am not Manichean as far as I'm aware, I'm Christian with deep roots in Hibernia and certainly haven't spent my life ignoring the physical aspects of my existence, although I do think there's something to be said for 'rising above' the mud wrestling if it can possibly be avoided :-)
            >
            > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
            > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 23:08
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > It's a nice sentiment that I fully endorse. We can and should do all that we are able to to help support the good. But, I can't see that this should extend to condoning, accepting or ignoring the lies and spirit-scoffing from the Herr Professor. The Manichean way would be the best; but as that's not a technique I have much talent at I think I'm best sticking to the more intellectual approach that I can manage. By taking this approach, I can and was easily able to demonstrate PS's complete incompetence and dishonesty over in the Hole. And that's something of value in my book.
            >
            >
            >
            > T.
            >
            >
            >
            > Ted Wrinch
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@> wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I think it's time we all let ourselves let go of the past - not our
            >
            > > memories of love, beauty, hopes and dreams etc, but just the things
            >
            > > that drag us down either individually or collectively. The peaceful
            >
            > > evolution of the world and all of our souls is paramount, it should all
            >
            > > be about good vibrations now, more than ever.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I don't say this from a tree top whilst imbibing cannabis or LSD, I say
            >
            > > it from a sense of exhaustion at all the fighting in the world - and a
            >
            > > desire to hang onto the small spark of life that still has faith that
            >
            > > the human race can (and will) drag itself out of the mire. Here and now
            >
            > > is always a good time/place to walk the line, we can help each other
            >
            > > along the way.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@>
            >
            > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
            >
            > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 22:15
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >  
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > T.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Ted Wrinch
            >
            > >
            >
          • Charlotte Cowell
            Oh, I see, thank you for explaining. It sounds as if there is a bit of a vendetta going on and I can imagine you find that upsetting, especially if you find
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Oh, I see, thank you for explaining. It sounds as if there is a bit of a vendetta going on and I can imagine you find that upsetting, especially if you find that what's being said is dishonest, or has a deceitful spin. Iwondered at first if the prof was a devout Jew, which would have made sense, I can understand that there are simply differences of opinion across cultures/faiths and that the human race is still trying to work through those and to comprehend the views of the 'other side'. And the events around the world wars undoubtedly released a huge amount of black magical force into the world that we're still trying to set to rights....

              However, if he is indeed atheist as you say, I'm not exactly sure what the motive would be - I mean, why would he care about points of doctrine unless he has a deep faith? Or maybe he is confusing Theosophy/Thule and the foundation of Nazi ideology with the later anthroposophical movement? In any case I guess having an opponent of this kind can serve the function of raising up certain questions and giving one the chance to reinforce one's own belief in the process, maybe he needs an intellectual spar, it strikes  me that his obsessive quest masks questions that are hidden even to himself and he may be trying to get to them - his racial soul must have a profound effect, it does with all of us, and the Judaic one is particularly strong.

              I didn't realise that is what you meant about Mani and I replied as I did because I am uncertain about the doctrine that he was the Paraclete, it's something I simply don't know, although I understand the concept. Now you've said what you meant, I must admit I do have some sympathy for that view (the potential for redeeming 'evil'), but only to a point - I do think the Luciferic element can be redeemed, but not the Ahrimanic, as I think anthroposophists term that part - I see that more as the dark matter, the charcoal as it were that is left behind after the sacred fire has burned.

              As for Hibernia, actually my father's side (the pagans!) are from the Isle of Man, which is a small island between the West coast of the UK and Ireland. As with many of the small islands around the UK it was a once a centre for druidic worship and naturally I take an interest in the ancient mysteries. (of all cultures, not just this one, I studied ancient Greek history and have looked into the Sumerian and Egyptian systems as well). My mother's family I don't know much about as she was adopted, however, we know she came from the West country and her name suggests Jewish background, but it's really an unknown quantity. I tend to see her as Faerie Queen-ish, as one often does with one's mother!

              Cx

              --- On Tue, 8/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:

              From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
              Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 8:31

               

              he 'Hole' and the 'Abyss' and the 'Toilet' are all designations for the Waldorf Critics forum. The terms are part of a bigger, humorous mythology that Tarjei Straume invented that more fully expresses the nature of the place than its name. The prof is a 'scholar of the esoteric', based at Montana, who has spent over a decade engaging in what he calls 'criticism', 'rational debate' and 'public discussion', targeted at attacking Rudolph Steiner and the anthroposophical movement. He is both very clever and very dishonest, claiming to be an atheist that 'takes the spirit in history' seriously - he doesn't. I fully appreciate your disinclination to engage in polemics and group in-fighting and I'd certainly have to say that much of the fighting I've engaged in with the prof has been little above the mindless level, often due to the need to try to clear a path through the fallacies, ad-hominems and other verbiage that he uses as part of his debating technique - he's the expert at this kind of thing, apparently having honed his skills in the trenches of left, atheist politics. Manicheism is a philosophy that believes that evil can be transformed into the good. You say that you have roots in Hibernia - do you mean that you come from the emerald isle?

              T.

              Ted Wrinch

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm not really sure what the 'Hole' is and have never heard of this professor - maybe he does need 'stopping', I used to have the fire for that kind of thing but not so much anymore. Then again, we all have our causes and some things still do get to me. My problem I guess is I spent many years working with a group that was characterised by violent, mindless in-fighting between catholics and anthroposophists, which was a terrible shame as the wealth of spiritual knowledge held between members was enormous, just not put to good use in a group context (for the most part, though some people did try persistently).
              >
              > In that respect I am very wary about indulging in any kind of polemic across cyberspace as it tends to lead to what I term 'electrical' damage. I appreciate the prof may well be the instigator, though, so if you feel it's a cause worth fighting for then who am I to say it's best not to bother. There's turning the other cheek and then there's being blind to lies, corruption and injustice - not the same thing....like I say, I'm just more wary of 'engagement' these days.
              >
              > Not sure what you mean by Manichean in this context, I am not Manichean as far as I'm aware, I'm Christian with deep roots in Hibernia and certainly haven't spent my life ignoring the physical aspects of my existence, although I do think there's something to be said for 'rising above' the mud wrestling if it can possibly be avoided :-)
              >
              > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
              > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
              > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 23:08
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > It's a nice sentiment that I fully endorse. We can and should do all that we are able to to help support the good. But, I can't see that this should extend to condoning, accepting or ignoring the lies and spirit-scoffing from the Herr Professor. The Manichean way would be the best; but as that's not a technique I have much talent at I think I'm best sticking to the more intellectual approach that I can manage. By taking this approach, I can and was easily able to demonstrate PS's complete incompetence and dishonesty over in the Hole. And that's something of value in my book.
              >
              >
              >
              > T.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ted Wrinch
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I think it's time we all let ourselves let go of the past - not our
              >
              > > memories of love, beauty, hopes and dreams etc, but just the things
              >
              > > that drag us down either individually or collectively. The peaceful
              >
              > > evolution of the world and all of our souls is paramount, it should all
              >
              > > be about good vibrations now, more than ever.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I don't say this from a tree top whilst imbibing cannabis or LSD, I say
              >
              > > it from a sense of exhaustion at all the fighting in the world - and a
              >
              > > desire to hang onto the small spark of life that still has faith that
              >
              > > the human race can (and will) drag itself out of the mire. Here and now
              >
              > > is always a good time/place to walk the line, we can help each other
              >
              > > along the way.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@>
              >
              > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
              >
              > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 22:15
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >  
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > T.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Ted Wrinch
              >
              > >
              >


            • ted.wrinch
              Thanks for responding so frankly and fully. The vendetta has certainly been stressful and I ve learnt practically my entire repertoire of underhand,
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
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                Thanks for responding so frankly and fully.

                The 'vendetta' has certainly been stressful and I've learnt practically my entire repertoire of underhand, dishonest debating techniques from the prof. My background is mainly physical science and engineering's of one kind or another and the prof has been the expert at debate and verbal repartee; but I think I've improved over the last two years :). The prof espouses anarchist green politics and did indeed encounter some dubious neo-Nazi affiliated, right-wing anthro groups in Germany in the 90s, which aroused his battle instincts. I think at some point in the past the wellsprings of his motivation may have been left idealist; but those days appear long past and it seems that all that's left is the hatred to drive him on. This is something he appears unaware of, however, and over the years he has demonstrated that he holds a very superficial theory of the psyche (pretty much unreformed Freudianism) and appears to have little self-knowledge. The Jewish obsession appears to be just part of his far left, atheist ideology (I believe that his background may be that of an old German protestant family), in the way that for a time it was fashionable for leftists to support Soviet Russia. Your point about the possible black magical nature of Nazism is well taken and something from this era exerts a great and unhealthy pull on all in the Hole.

                Well, my understanding is that only the asuras are unredeemable in the sense that we can't act in a way in our inner life that can be of benefit for them. Lucifer and Ahriman are, to my understanding, not of this nature and we are very much called to understand and do what we can in our lives to redeem them. One of my favourite singer-songwriters, Paddy McAloon, has written a beautiful song about Lucifer:

                Michael

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkKlXv480WU

                Ah, the Isle of Man is an interesting place. I love the name of their parliament - the Tynwald - the etymology goes straight back to the Icelandic 'ping' and our 'thing'. I like ancient Greece too - my first year uni courses were maths, physics and classical studies! Always adored the Roger Lancelyn Green tales as well. They've just finished a great exhibition on the Egyptian book of the dead at the British Museum and I find ancient Egypt ever more fascinating. Hah, my wife's mother was adopted and always suspected that she might have been Jewish (very clever - went to Oxford - with dark hair and olive skin).

                T.

                Ted Wrinch


                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
                >
                > Oh, I see, thank you for explaining. It sounds as if there is
                > a bit of a vendetta going on and I can imagine you find that upsetting,
                > especially if you find that what's being said is dishonest, or has a
                > deceitful spin. Iwondered at first if the prof was a devout
                > Jew, which would have made sense, I can understand that there are
                > simply differences of opinion across cultures/faiths and that the human
                > race is still trying to work through those and to comprehend the views
                > of the 'other side'. And the events around the world wars undoubtedly
                > released a huge amount of black magical force into the world that we're
                > still trying to set to rights....
                >
                >
                >
                > However, if he is indeed atheist as you say, I'm not exactly sure what
                > the motive would be - I mean, why would he care about points of
                > doctrine unless he has a deep faith? Or maybe he is confusing Theosophy/Thule and the foundation of Nazi ideology with the later anthroposophical movement? In any case I guess having an
                > opponent of this kind can serve the function of raising up certain
                > questions and giving one the chance to reinforce one's own belief in
                > the process, maybe he needs an intellectual
                > spar, it strikes  me that his obsessive quest masks questions that are
                > hidden even to himself and he may be trying to get to them - his racial
                > soul must have a profound effect, it does with all of us, and the
                > Judaic one is particularly strong.
                >
                >
                >
                > I didn't realise that is what you meant about Mani and I replied as I
                > did because I am uncertain about the doctrine that he was the
                > Paraclete, it's something I simply don't know, although I understand
                > the concept. Now you've said what you meant, I must admit I do have
                > some sympathy for that view (the potential for redeeming 'evil'), but only to a point - I do think the Luciferic
                > element can be redeemed, but not the Ahrimanic, as I think
                > anthroposophists term that part - I see that more as the dark matter,
                > the charcoal as it were that is left behind after the sacred fire has
                > burned.
                >
                >
                >
                > As for Hibernia, actually my father's side (the pagans!) are
                > from the Isle of Man, which is a small island between the West coast of
                > the UK and Ireland. As with many of the small islands around the UK it
                > was a once a centre for druidic worship and naturally I take an
                > interest in the ancient mysteries. (of all cultures, not just this one, I studied ancient
                > Greek history and have looked into the Sumerian
                > and Egyptian systems as well). My mother's family I don't know much
                > about as she was adopted, however, we know she came from the West
                > country and her name suggests Jewish background, but it's really an
                > unknown quantity. I tend to see her as Faerie Queen-ish, as one often
                > does with one's mother!
                >
                >
                >
                > Cx
                >
              • val2160
                ... go ... far-left, ... spirit-scoffer ... with ... religious ... deep ... this ... people, ... Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
                • 0 Attachment


                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                  > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go
                  > buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left,
                  > anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                  > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                  > appear to be firing at once:
                  > >
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                  > >
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                  > >
                  > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other
                  > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe
                  > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                  > >
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                  > >
                  > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the
                  > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                  > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer
                  > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the
                  > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero
                  > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has
                  > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his
                  > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                  > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion
                  > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                  > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                  > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                  > >
                  > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                  > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with
                  > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious
                  > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                  > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                  > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                  > should feel blessed!
                  > >
                  > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                  > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving
                  > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for
                  > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep
                  > and far-ranging account.
                  > >
                  > > T.
                  > >
                  > > Ted Wrinch
                  >
                  >
                  > I had forgotten about this
                  > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Common_Lectionary> beginning this
                  > year. The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings is two-fold as I
                  > understand it. The Church is attempting to provide a more cohesive and
                  > comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the
                  > same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all people,
                  > regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val

                  Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being that Christians are reading the same texts and hearing the same lessons each week across denominations.-Val

                  The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1)
                  The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1).

                • val2160
                  ... liar ... colonists against jews . ... Um, what crime was the execution for?-Val ... go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
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                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                    <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Frank's response over in the Hole to Peter's orbit was:
                    >
                    > "You are an miserable, egotistical, slanderous, arrogant, abominable
                    liar
                    > Peter."
                    >
                    > I don't think that the term 'arrogant' adequately describes the state
                    of mind of an 'historian' that, without qualification, believes:
                    >
                    > that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman
                    colonists against jews'.
                    >
                    > 'Ego-maniac' would seem to be a more accurate description.
                    >
                    > T.
                    >
                    > Ted Wrinch


                    Um, what crime was the execution for?-Val


                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                    ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s
                    go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                    far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                    progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                    appear to be firing at once:
                    > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                    > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                    > >
                    > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other
                    anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe
                    for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                    > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                    > >
                    > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the
                    bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                    duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer
                    - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the
                    racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero
                    for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has
                    been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his
                    (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                    wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion
                    was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                    jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                    years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                    > >
                    > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                    "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with
                    basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious
                    traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                    xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                    religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                    should feel blessed!
                    > >
                    > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                    homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving
                    brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for
                    their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep
                    and far-ranging account.
                    > >
                    > > T.
                    > >
                    > > Ted Wrinch
                    > >
                    >
                  • val2160
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ezDEk3qCg
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ezDEk3qCg

                      http://www.maybenow.com/What-are-things-that-come-in-groups-of-four-q8517175


                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                      > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s
                      > go
                      > > buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                      > far-left,
                      > > anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                      > > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                      > > appear to be firing at once:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                      > > >
                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                      > > >
                      > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other
                      > > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe
                      > > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                      > > >
                      > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the
                      > > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                      > > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid
                      > spirit-scoffer
                      > > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the
                      > > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero
                      > > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has
                      > > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his
                      > > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                      > > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion
                      > > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                      > > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                      > > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                      > > >
                      > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                      > > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar
                      > with
                      > > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any
                      > religious
                      > > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                      > > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                      > > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                      > > should feel blessed!
                      > > >
                      > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                      > > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving
                      > > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for
                      > > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive,
                      > deep
                      > > and far-ranging account.
                      > > >
                      > > > T.
                      > > >
                      > > > Ted Wrinch
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I had forgotten about this
                      > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Common_Lectionary> beginning
                      > this
                      > > year. The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings is two-fold as I
                      > > understand it. The Church is attempting to provide a more cohesive and
                      > > comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the
                      > > same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all
                      > people,
                      > > regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val
                      >
                      >
                      > Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being that
                      > Christians are reading the same texts and hearing the same lessons each
                      > week across denominations.-Val
                      >
                      > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                      > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred
                      > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be
                      > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred
                      > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                      > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                      > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1)
                      > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                      > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred
                      > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be
                      > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred
                      > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                      > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                      > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1).
                      >

                    • ted.wrinch
                      Some theories are that he was put down as a trouble maker because: the Romans were worried that he could unify the Jewish people as their messiah; he
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
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                        Some theories are that he was put down as a trouble maker because: the Romans were worried that he could unify the Jewish people as their messiah; he challenged Rome by calling for non-violent resistance to high taxes and land seizures (Crossan's thesis).

                        T.

                        Ted Wrinch

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                        > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Frank's response over in the Hole to Peter's orbit was:
                        > >
                        > > "You are an miserable, egotistical, slanderous, arrogant, abominable
                        > liar
                        > > Peter."
                        > >
                        > > I don't think that the term 'arrogant' adequately describes the state
                        > of mind of an 'historian' that, without qualification, believes:
                        > >
                        > > that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman
                        > colonists against jews'.
                        > >
                        > > 'Ego-maniac' would seem to be a more accurate description.
                        > >
                        > > T.
                        > >
                        > > Ted Wrinch
                        >
                        >
                        > Um, what crime was the execution for?-Val
                        >
                        >
                        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                        > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s
                        > go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                        > far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                        > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                        > appear to be firing at once:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                        > > >
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                        > > >
                        > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other
                        > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe
                        > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                        > > >
                        > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the
                        > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                        > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer
                        > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the
                        > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero
                        > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has
                        > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his
                        > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                        > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion
                        > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                        > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                        > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                        > > >
                        > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                        > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with
                        > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious
                        > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                        > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                        > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                        > should feel blessed!
                        > > >
                        > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                        > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving
                        > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for
                        > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep
                        > and far-ranging account.
                        > > >
                        > > > T.
                        > > >
                        > > > Ted Wrinch
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • val2160
                        ... wrote: Some theories are that he was put down as a trouble maker because: the Romans were worried that he could unify the Jewish people as
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 8, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                          <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:

                          Some theories are that he was put down as a trouble maker because: the
                          Romans were worried that he could unify the Jewish people as their
                          messiah; he challenged Rome by calling for non-violent resistance to
                          high taxes and land seizures (Crossan's thesis).

                          In either of these cases the threat would have been to the state not the
                          people.-Val


                          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                          > > <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Frank's response over in the Hole to Peter's orbit was:
                          > > >
                          > > > "You are an miserable, egotistical, slanderous, arrogant,
                          abominable
                          > > liar
                          > > > Peter."
                          > > >
                          > > > I don't think that the term 'arrogant' adequately describes the
                          state
                          > > of mind of an 'historian' that, without qualification, believes:
                          > > >
                          > > > that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by
                          Roman
                          > > colonists against jews'.
                          > > >
                          > > > 'Ego-maniac' would seem to be a more accurate description.
                          > > >
                          > > > T.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ted Wrinch
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Um, what crime was the execution for?-Val
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                          > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter
                          S.s
                          > > go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                          > > far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his
                          left
                          > > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                          > > appear to be firing at once:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                          > > > >
                          > > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and
                          other
                          > > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America
                          safe
                          > > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                          > > > >
                          > > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at
                          the
                          > > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                          > > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid
                          spirit-scoffer
                          > > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be
                          the
                          > > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid
                          hero
                          > > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment
                          has
                          > > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with
                          his
                          > > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                          > > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the
                          crucifixion
                          > > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                          > > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                          > > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                          > > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar
                          with
                          > > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any
                          religious
                          > > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                          > > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                          > > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                          > > should feel blessed!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                          > > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating,
                          anti-Semitism-loving
                          > > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded
                          for
                          > > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive,
                          deep
                          > > and far-ranging account.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > T.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Ted Wrinch
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Charlotte Cowell
                          Thank you Ted, I m just listening to the song now - I m always up for hearing new music, I m a big music lover. There is another song of Prefab Sprout s I
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 9, 2011
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                            Thank you Ted, I'm just listening to the song now - I'm always up for hearing new music, I'm a big music lover. There is another song of Prefab Sprout's I love, Bonny I think it is?? Very sad though.....

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLbqpGK0KuA

                            As for the Egyptian Book of the Dead, I really wanted to see the exhibition but was unlucky enough to break my foot in January and it's still not right - hopefully on the mend it's just taking a while.

                            Which college did your mother in law go to? I am also an Oxonian, I was at New College, which was established to train a priestly community because so many had died during the Black Death. I had a wonderful time there, it is a truly magical place, very spiritual and with an amazing choir. Happy Days!

                            Cx

                            --- On Tue, 8/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:

                            From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
                            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 13:53

                             


                            Thanks for responding so frankly and fully.

                            The 'vendetta' has certainly been stressful and I've learnt practically my entire repertoire of underhand, dishonest debating techniques from the prof. My background is mainly physical science and engineering's of one kind or another and the prof has been the expert at debate and verbal repartee; but I think I've improved over the last two years :). The prof espouses anarchist green politics and did indeed encounter some dubious neo-Nazi affiliated, right-wing anthro groups in Germany in the 90s, which aroused his battle instincts. I think at some point in the past the wellsprings of his motivation may have been left idealist; but those days appear long past and it seems that all that's left is the hatred to drive him on. This is something he appears unaware of, however, and over the years he has demonstrated that he holds a very superficial theory of the psyche (pretty much unreformed Freudianism) and appears to have little self-knowledge. The Jewish obsession appears to be just part of his far left, atheist ideology (I believe that his background may be that of an old German protestant family), in the way that for a time it was fashionable for leftists to support Soviet Russia. Your point about the possible black magical nature of Nazism is well taken and something from this era exerts a great and unhealthy pull on all in the Hole.

                            Well, my understanding is that only the asuras are unredeemable in the sense that we can't act in a way in our inner life that can be of benefit for them. Lucifer and Ahriman are, to my understanding, not of this nature and we are very much called to understand and do what we can in our lives to redeem them. One of my favourite singer-songwriters, Paddy McAloon, has written a beautiful song about Lucifer:

                            Michael

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkKlXv480WU

                            Ah, the Isle of Man is an interesting place. I love the name of their parliament - the Tynwald - the etymology goes straight back to the Icelandic 'ping' and our 'thing'. I like ancient Greece too - my first year uni courses were maths, physics and classical studies! Always adored the Roger Lancelyn Green tales as well. They've just finished a great exhibition on the Egyptian book of the dead at the British Museum and I find ancient Egypt ever more fascinating. Hah, my wife's mother was adopted and always suspected that she might have been Jewish (very clever - went to Oxford - with dark hair and olive skin).

                            T.

                            Ted Wrinch

                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Oh, I see, thank you for explaining. It sounds as if there is
                            > a bit of a vendetta going on and I can imagine you find that upsetting,
                            > especially if you find that what's being said is dishonest, or has a
                            > deceitful spin. Iwondered at first if the prof was a devout
                            > Jew, which would have made sense, I can understand that there are
                            > simply differences of opinion across cultures/faiths and that the human
                            > race is still trying to work through those and to comprehend the views
                            > of the 'other side'. And the events around the world wars undoubtedly
                            > released a huge amount of black magical force into the world that we're
                            > still trying to set to rights....
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > However, if he is indeed atheist as you say, I'm not exactly sure what
                            > the motive would be - I mean, why would he care about points of
                            > doctrine unless he has a deep faith? Or maybe he is confusing Theosophy/Thule and the foundation of Nazi ideology with the later anthroposophical movement? In any case I guess having an
                            > opponent of this kind can serve the function of raising up certain
                            > questions and giving one the chance to reinforce one's own belief in
                            > the process, maybe he needs an intellectual
                            > spar, it strikes  me that his obsessive quest masks questions that are
                            > hidden even to himself and he may be trying to get to them - his racial
                            > soul must have a profound effect, it does with all of us, and the
                            > Judaic one is particularly strong.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I didn't realise that is what you meant about Mani and I replied as I
                            > did because I am uncertain about the doctrine that he was the
                            > Paraclete, it's something I simply don't know, although I understand
                            > the concept. Now you've said what you meant, I must admit I do have
                            > some sympathy for that view (the potential for redeeming 'evil'), but only to a point - I do think the Luciferic
                            > element can be redeemed, but not the Ahrimanic, as I think
                            > anthroposophists term that part - I see that more as the dark matter,
                            > the charcoal as it were that is left behind after the sacred fire has
                            > burned.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > As for Hibernia, actually my father's side (the pagans!) are
                            > from the Isle of Man, which is a small island between the West coast of
                            > the UK and Ireland. As with many of the small islands around the UK it
                            > was a once a centre for druidic worship and naturally I take an
                            > interest in the ancient mysteries. (of all cultures, not just this one, I studied ancient
                            > Greek history and have looked into the Sumerian
                            > and Egyptian systems as well). My mother's family I don't know much
                            > about as she was adopted, however, we know she came from the West
                            > country and her name suggests Jewish background, but it's really an
                            > unknown quantity. I tend to see her as Faerie Queen-ish, as one often
                            > does with one's mother!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Cx
                            >


                          • Frank Thomas Smith
                            ... Hi Cx, The Black Death, if I remember correctly, was in the 14th century. Are you saying that you were around then...as a priest maybe? Frank
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 9, 2011
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                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Which college did your mother in law go to? I am also an Oxonian, I was at New College, which was established to train a priestly community because so many had died during the Black Death. I had a wonderful time there, it is a truly magical place, very spiritual and with an amazing choir. Happy Days!
                              >
                              Hi Cx,
                              The Black Death, if I remember correctly, was in the 14th century. Are you saying that you were around then...as a priest maybe?
                              Frank
                            • ted.wrinch
                              Hi Charlotte, Hope you like it. I m a Paddy evangelist, singing his praises to the skies and to anyone who will listen! He has so many superlatively crafted,
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 10, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Charlotte,

                                Hope you like it. I'm a Paddy evangelist, singing his praises to the skies and to anyone who will listen! He has so many superlatively crafted, intelligent rhymed songs, singing of the spirituality that runs through our modern existence. Bonny is very good and very sad, one of the saddest love songs - 'words like soldiers, can't hold you'.

                                I'm sorry you couldn't see the exhibition. Good luck with your foot. I've been fighting ankylosing spondylitis for the last year - though there's no cure according to my GP. Had bad sciatica over Christmas from the facet joints in my 4/5 lumbar vertebrae pushing on the nerve. But I do exercises and am trying an anti-inflammatory diet, which seems to be helping…

                                What a coincidence! My wife's mother - I never met her as she had died before my wife and I got together- went to Lady Margaret's to do english. Your experience sounds great. Uni was fun, wasn't it? I ended up going to 4 across the country!

                                T.

                                Ted Wrinch


                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thank you Ted, I'm just listening to the song now - I'm always up for hearing new music, I'm a big music lover. There is another song of Prefab Sprout's I love, Bonny I think it is?? Very sad though.....
                                >
                                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLbqpGK0KuA
                                >
                                > As for the Egyptian Book of the Dead, I really wanted to see the exhibition but was unlucky enough to break my foot in January and it's still not right - hopefully on the mend it's just taking a while.
                                >
                                > Which college did your mother in law go to? I am also an Oxonian, I was at New College, which was established to train a priestly community because so many had died during the Black Death. I had a wonderful time there, it is a truly magical place, very spiritual and with an amazing choir. Happy Days!
                                >
                                > Cx
                                >
                              • Charlotte Cowell
                                Actually Frank that had never occurred to me, but it s an interesting idea, who knows! In fact now you come to mention it, I DID get converted to Christianity
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 10, 2011
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                                  Actually Frank that had never occurred to me, but it's an interesting idea, who knows! In fact now you come to mention it, I DID get converted to Christianity while I was there (during my second year, over Pentecost), sparked by someone who was a Benedictine and the first place I moved after leaving the university was Black Heath in London, where (as I later discovered) they buried a lot of plague victims!! I also love choral music, which probably helps, and have spent the last 15 years since I left wondering intermittently whether I should go into monastic seclusion. Funny, lol!!

                                  All that said, while I have got some past life inklings (several deaths in dreams), the medieval priest notion had not popped up, although I do have a kind of memory that I think is from around that era and was in fact set in Oxford - I most definitely have a strong karmic tie to the town, that's for sure. What I can recall is being the young male assistant of someone who was appeared to be a mad knight, duke or even king, although maybe he seemed mad because of the situation, in which we were both besieged in a tower pursued by a marauding army.

                                  All I can really remember is us being barricaded into this tower that had wooden floors, and although it was a very large room there was no furniture in there, just a couple of big tapestries on the walls. The soldiers of the invading army were banging against the trap door and my knight was roaring his head off for swords going absolutely berserk, to such a dramatic event I couldn't help but find it comical, even though it was terrifying and I knew we were going to die.  I dashed into another room that had quite a stockpile of weapons in there, grabbed two swords and threw them both to him, whereupon he started hacking at whoever came up from the stairs, roaring 'OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!". It all ended pretty soon after that, lol

                                  Cx

                                  --- On Thu, 10/3/11, Frank Thomas Smith <fts.trasla@...> wrote:

                                  From: Frank Thomas Smith <fts.trasla@...>
                                  Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
                                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, 10 March, 2011, 0:47

                                   



                                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Which college did your mother in law go to? I am also an Oxonian, I was at New College, which was established to train a priestly community because so many had died during the Black Death. I had a wonderful time there, it is a truly magical place, very spiritual and with an amazing choir. Happy Days!
                                  >
                                  Hi Cx,
                                  The Black Death, if I remember correctly, was in the 14th century. Are you saying that you were around then...as a priest maybe?
                                  Frank


                                • val2160
                                  ... S.s ... other ... safe ... the ... the ... hero ... has ... his ... crucifixion ... anti-Semitism-loving ... for ... and ... each ... Sacred ... be ...
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 14, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                                    > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s
                                    > go
                                    > > buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                                    > far-left,
                                    > > anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                                    > > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                                    > > appear to be firing at once:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                                    > > >
                                    > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other
                                    > > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe
                                    > > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                                    > > >
                                    > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the
                                    > > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                                    > > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid
                                    > spirit-scoffer
                                    > > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the
                                    > > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero
                                    > > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has
                                    > > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his
                                    > > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                                    > > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion
                                    > > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                                    > > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                                    > > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                                    > > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar
                                    > with
                                    > > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any
                                    > religious
                                    > > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                                    > > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                                    > > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                                    > > should feel blessed!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                                    > > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving
                                    > > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for
                                    > > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive,
                                    > deep
                                    > > and far-ranging account.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > T.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ted Wrinch
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I had forgotten about this
                                    > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Common_Lectionary> beginning
                                    > this
                                    > > year. The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings is two-fold as I
                                    > > understand it. The Church is attempting to provide a more cohesive and
                                    > > comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the
                                    > > same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all
                                    > people,
                                    > > regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being that
                                    > Christians are reading the same texts and hearing the same lessons each
                                    > week across denominations.-Val
                                    >
                                    > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                    > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred
                                    > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be
                                    > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred
                                    > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                    > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                    > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1)
                                    > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                    > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of Sacred
                                    > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would be
                                    > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the Sacred
                                    > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                    > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                    > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1).

                                    Check it out:

                                    More frightening is the Emergent movement, perhaps the fastest growing subculture in the church today, which seems to have a literal disdain for valid atonement theory.  From the outside, Emergent congregations seem merely a post-modern "trendy-church" model by which the next generation may be reached.  From the inside, their mentors and un-official leaders are teaching doctrines which are actually defining the cutting edge of Mystical Atonement Theory.  They teach that atonement is not substitutional in nature.  They whole-heartedly affirm and teach a mysticism which is consistent with the views of the Mystical Theory.  As panentheism will tend to lead to, they have furthermore attempted to erase the lines between Christianity and other world religions, claiming that Christ is anything but exclusive in his work of atonement. 

                                    The Mystical Theory of Atonement is one which will unconditionally lead to an apostasy which misrepresents God's character, purpose and glory.  As obviously flawed as it is, this theory is being adopted at alarming rates – right from within the church itself. 

                                    http://www.returningking.com/?p=616


                                  • ted.wrinch
                                    Roll on apostasy! T. Ted Wrinch
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 15, 2011
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                                      Roll on apostasy!

                                      T.

                                      Ted Wrinch

                                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                                      > > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter
                                      > S.s
                                      > > go
                                      > > > buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                                      > > far-left,
                                      > > > anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                                      > > > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                                      > > > appear to be firing at once:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and
                                      > other
                                      > > > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America
                                      > safe
                                      > > > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at
                                      > the
                                      > > > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                                      > > > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid
                                      > > spirit-scoffer
                                      > > > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be
                                      > the
                                      > > > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid
                                      > hero
                                      > > > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment
                                      > has
                                      > > > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with
                                      > his
                                      > > > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                                      > > > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the
                                      > crucifixion
                                      > > > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                                      > > > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                                      > > > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                                      > > > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar
                                      > > with
                                      > > > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any
                                      > > religious
                                      > > > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                                      > > > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                                      > > > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                                      > > > should feel blessed!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                                      > > > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating,
                                      > anti-Semitism-loving
                                      > > > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded
                                      > for
                                      > > > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive,
                                      > > deep
                                      > > > and far-ranging account.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > T.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Ted Wrinch
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I had forgotten about this
                                      > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Common_Lectionary> beginning
                                      > > this
                                      > > > year. The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings is two-fold as I
                                      > > > understand it. The Church is attempting to provide a more cohesive
                                      > and
                                      > > > comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the
                                      > > > same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all
                                      > > people,
                                      > > > regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being that
                                      > > Christians are reading the same texts and hearing the same lessons
                                      > each
                                      > > week across denominations.-Val
                                      > >
                                      > > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                      > > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of
                                      > Sacred
                                      > > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would
                                      > be
                                      > > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the
                                      > Sacred
                                      > > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                      > > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                      > > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1)
                                      > > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                      > > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of
                                      > Sacred
                                      > > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would
                                      > be
                                      > > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the
                                      > Sacred
                                      > > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                      > > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                      > > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1).
                                      >
                                      > Check it out:
                                      >
                                      > More frightening is the Emergent movement, perhaps the fastest growing
                                      > subculture in the church today, which seems to have a literal disdain
                                      > for valid atonement theory. From the outside, Emergent congregations
                                      > seem merely a post-modern "trendy-church" model by which the
                                      > next generation may be reached. From the inside, their mentors and
                                      > un-official leaders are teaching doctrines which are actually defining
                                      > the cutting edge of Mystical Atonement Theory. They teach that
                                      > atonement is not substitutional <http://www.returningking.com/?p=80> in
                                      > nature. They whole-heartedly affirm and teach a mysticism
                                      > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=83> which is consistent with the views
                                      > of the Mystical Theory. As panentheism will tend to lead to, they have
                                      > furthermore attempted to erase the lines
                                      > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=280> between Christianity and other
                                      > world religions, claiming that Christ is anything but exclusive in his
                                      > work of atonement.
                                      >
                                      > The Mystical Theory of Atonement is one which will unconditionally lead
                                      > to an apostasy <http://www.returningking.com/?p=312> which
                                      > misrepresents God's character, purpose and glory. As obviously
                                      > flawed as it is, this theory is being adopted at alarming rates –
                                      > right from within the church itself.
                                      >
                                      > http://www.returningking.com/?p=616
                                      > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=616>
                                      >
                                    • val2160
                                      ... Or not... Val ... Peter ... neurones ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1 ...
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 15, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Roll on apostasy!
                                        >
                                        > T.
                                        >
                                        > Ted Wrinch


                                        Val
                                         
                                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@ wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" <wdenval@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
                                        > > > > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter
                                        > > S.s
                                        > > > go
                                        > > > > buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of
                                        > > > far-left,
                                        > > > > anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left
                                        > > > > progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones
                                        > > > > appear to be firing at once:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and
                                        > > other
                                        > > > > anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America
                                        > > safe
                                        > > > > for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17690?l=1
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying,
                                        > > > > duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid
                                        > > > spirit-scoffer
                                        > > > > - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid
                                        > > hero
                                        > > > > for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment
                                        > > has
                                        > > > > been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with
                                        > > his
                                        > > > > (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly
                                        > > > > wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the
                                        > > crucifixion
                                        > > > > was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against
                                        > > > > jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000
                                        > > > > years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are :
                                        > > > > "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar
                                        > > > with
                                        > > > > basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any
                                        > > > religious
                                        > > > > traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of
                                        > > > > xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the
                                        > > > > religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We
                                        > > > > should feel blessed!
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational,
                                        > > > > homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating,
                                        > > anti-Semitism-loving
                                        > > > > brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded
                                        > > for
                                        > > > > their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive,
                                        > > > deep
                                        > > > > and far-ranging account.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > T.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Ted Wrinch
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I had forgotten about this
                                        > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Common_Lectionary> beginning
                                        > > > this
                                        > > > > year. The goal of re-formatting the weekly readings is two-fold as I
                                        > > > > understand it. The Church is attempting to provide a more cohesive
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > comprehensive understanding of the Bible for Christians while at the
                                        > > > > same time introducing the Gospels as something applicable to all
                                        > > > people,
                                        > > > > regardless of belief. Thanks for reminding me.-Val
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Make that three goals, now that I think of it, the third being that
                                        > > > Christians are reading the same texts and hearing the same lessons
                                        > > each
                                        > > > week across denominations.-Val
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                        > > > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of
                                        > > Sacred
                                        > > > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would
                                        > > be
                                        > > > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the
                                        > > Sacred
                                        > > > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                        > > > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                        > > > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1)
                                        > > > The Commission also wanted to be faithful to the wish of the Second
                                        > > > Vatican Council that it would be preferable to have a version of
                                        > > Sacred
                                        > > > Scripture which all Christians could use in common. To do this would
                                        > > be
                                        > > > in keeping with the opening paragraph of the Constitution on the
                                        > > Sacred
                                        > > > Liturgy which saw as one of the principal goals of liturgical renewal
                                        > > > "to nurture whatever can contribute to the unity of all who believe in
                                        > > > Christ" (Vatican Council II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 1).
                                        > >
                                        > > Check it out:
                                        > >
                                        > > More frightening is the Emergent movement, perhaps the fastest growing
                                        > > subculture in the church today, which seems to have a literal disdain
                                        > > for valid atonement theory. From the outside, Emergent congregations
                                        > > seem merely a post-modern "trendy-church" model by which the
                                        > > next generation may be reached. From the inside, their mentors and
                                        > > un-official leaders are teaching doctrines which are actually defining
                                        > > the cutting edge of Mystical Atonement Theory. They teach that
                                        > > atonement is not substitutional <http://www.returningking.com/?p=80> in
                                        > > nature. They whole-heartedly affirm and teach a mysticism
                                        > > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=83> which is consistent with the views
                                        > > of the Mystical Theory. As panentheism will tend to lead to, they have
                                        > > furthermore attempted to erase the lines
                                        > > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=280> between Christianity and other
                                        > > world religions, claiming that Christ is anything but exclusive in his
                                        > > work of atonement.
                                        > >
                                        > > The Mystical Theory of Atonement is one which will unconditionally lead
                                        > > to an apostasy <http://www.returningking.com/?p=312> which
                                        > > misrepresents God's character, purpose and glory. As obviously
                                        > > flawed as it is, this theory is being adopted at alarming rates –
                                        > > right from within the church itself.
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.returningking.com/?p=616
                                        > > <http://www.returningking.com/?p=616>
                                        > >
                                        >
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