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Re: Hate group?

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  • Charlie
    The greatest privileges for women in classical Greece went to the prostitutes and priestesses - let s not forget that the Pythia of Delphi was in many respects
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 3, 2011
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      The greatest privileges for women in classical Greece went to the prostitutes and priestesses - let's not forget that the Pythia of Delphi was in many respects the most powerful person in their world, even if a lot of it was just ceremonial, while Hetarai had the run of the town. Also in Sparta women enjoyed far more relative equality than in other states, though admittedly in general women were kept well under the thumb of their males. A lot of it was due to psychological fear of female sexuality, which was considered to be dark, destructive, pathological and uncontrollable. This is despite the fact the Eleusinian Mysteries, (cult of Demeter) led the religious way along with Delphian Apollo....

      Perhaps it was an adverse reaction to earlier cultures that were founded on goddess worship, Isis, Ishtar, etc?

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts.trasla@...> wrote:
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      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > >
      > > You're right about the Greeks, and male-male, pederastic love was an important, initiatory part of their civic culture. This was a referent for Oscar Wilde in his trial concerning the 'love that dare not speak its name'. It was regarded as the freest love, as long as it wasn't mediated by money. But ancient Greece was a male orientated society and womens' roles were circumscribed to an extent that seems extreme to us now. An ancient Greek's view of women was ambivalent: they were the source of society's continuity, but also creatures of chaos and weak logic. The ideal of a helpmeet and friend, that we now hold to be important in the relations between the sexes, was not one the Greeks held, where the highest status women, the wives, were primarily expected to run the family and produce heirs for the male of the household (they only became full household members when they became mothers). But it may be, as you say, that there was a kind of holiness in the union between the sexes and childbirth as both events were commonly celebrated with religious rites.
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      > Yes, but Plato (as Socrates) in his "The Republic" states that women are the equals of men in all things except physical strength, and even allows them to participate as soldierly guardians of society. This was in total contradiction to society's norms at the time.
      > Frank
      >
    • ted.wrinch
      Women did hold a more equal position in Sparta, being allowed to hold property - perhaps because so many Spartan men were so often away at battle - and
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 5, 2011
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        Women did hold a more equal position in Sparta, being allowed to hold property - perhaps because so many Spartan men were so often away at battle - and exercise naked in the gym, in the way the men were used to doing. I don't think that a hetaera held the same status as a free born Greek mother, being often a foreigner or ex-slave; but she would certainly have often been treated with respect, sometimes as an equal. Priestesses were held in the highest regard, as were, obviously, the female members of the Greek pantheon.

        I would expect that the fear was that of the unknown, that reality lay deeper than the logic of the symposia. I don't know if Ishtar would have been a part of that - the Babylonian pantheon takes us to a time very remote from our own.

        T.

        Ted Wrinch

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie" <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
        >
        > The greatest privileges for women in classical Greece went to the prostitutes and priestesses - let's not forget that the Pythia of Delphi was in many respects the most powerful person in their world, even if a lot of it was just ceremonial, while Hetarai had the run of the town. Also in Sparta women enjoyed far more relative equality than in other states, though admittedly in general women were kept well under the thumb of their males. A lot of it was due to psychological fear of female sexuality, which was considered to be dark, destructive, pathological and uncontrollable. This is despite the fact the Eleusinian Mysteries, (cult of Demeter) led the religious way along with Delphian Apollo....
        >
        > Perhaps it was an adverse reaction to earlier cultures that were founded on goddess worship, Isis, Ishtar, etc?
        >
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