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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Spiritual Experience Ahead and the Popes

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  • dottie zold
    You know Val, I also thought of the name that works with the Grail lineage but I can t recall where I saw it , rather what book, and when I do a search nothing
    Message 1 of 37 , Sep 11, 2010
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      You know Val, I also thought of the name that works with the Grail lineage but I can't recall where I saw it , rather what book, and when I do a search nothing comes up.....but maybe that's really an association from the name I heard before in the grail stories....I am glad to see the story on Aldo Moro friend, what an interesting thing to occur that a Pope would offer his life in stead of his friends....and you know, interestingly enough I wnder if there is any truth to the points raised on the Morro page where it is possible that this Pope was taken out by the hidden services of various political regimes in his country and also ours.....Jimmy Carter has said that his fate was sealed and he was sacraficed...something about state secrets behind released in his notes that were making their way to the outsiders in search of his freedom.....
       
      d

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



      --- On Sat, 9/11/10, val2160 <wdenval@...> wrote:

      From: val2160 <wdenval@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Spiritual Experience Ahead and the Popes
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 5:00 PM




      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wojtyła became the 264th Pope according to the chronological list of popes and the first non-Italian Pope in 455 years.[61] At only 58 years of age, he was the youngest pope elected since Pope Pius IX in 1846, who was 54.[47] Like his immediate predecessor, Pope John Paul II dispensed with the traditional Papal coronation and instead received ecclesiastical investiture with the simplified Papal inauguration on 22 October 1978. During his inauguration, when the cardinals were to kneel before him to take their vows and kiss his ring, he stood up as the Polish prelate Stefan Cardinal Wyszyński knelt down, stopped him from kissing the ring, and hugged him.[62}

      Paul did away with much of the regal splendor of the papacy. He was the last pope to date to be crowned; his successor Pope John Paul I replaced the Papal Coronation (which Paul had already substantially modified, but which he left mandatory in his 1975 apostolic constitution Romano Pontifici Eligendo) with a Papal Inauguration.

      Moro, photographed during his kidnapping by the Red Brigades

      Kidnapped, March 16, 1978

      On March 16, 1978, Moro was kidnapped, after the murder of his five bodyguards, on Via Fani, a street in Rome, by a militant communist group known as the Red Brigades led by Mario Moretti. At the time, all of the founding members of the Red Brigades were in jail, and the group that kidnapped Moro is therefore known as the "Second Red Brigades." Moro was kidnapped on his way to a session of the House of Representatives, where a discussion was supposed to take place regarding a vote of confidence in a new government led by Giulio Andreotti (DC) and with, for the first time, the support of the Communist Party. It was the first implementation of Moro's strategic vision as defined by the Compromesso storico (historic compromise).
      In the following days, trade unions called for a general strike, while security forces made hundreds of raids in Rome, Milan, Turin and other cities searching for Moro's location. Held for two months, he was allowed to send letters to his family and politicians. The government refused to negotiate, despite demands by family, friends and Pope Paul VI.[1] In fact, Paul VI "offered himself in exchange … for Aldo Moro …"[2] During the investigation of Moro's kidnapping, General Carlo Alberto Dalla Chiesa reportedly responded to a member of the security services who suggested torture against a suspect, "Italy can survive the loss of Aldo Moro. It would not survive the introduction of torture."[3][4] The Red Brigades initiated a secret trial. Moro was found guilty and sentenced to death. They then sent demands to the Italian authorities, which stated that unless 16 Red Guard prisoners were released, Moro would be executed. The Italian authorities responded with a manhunt.[5]
      After 54 days of detention, Moro was murdered in or near Rome on May 9. His body was found later that day in a parked car, left with apparent symbolism, between the headquarters of the DC and the PCI on Rome's Via Caetani. He had been shot in the chest 11 times.




    • elfuncle
      I m sort of relieved you re not a Templar, Dottie, because I ve been suspecting you of being one of them mamas Frank and I were discussing ;) Well, it s not a
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 12, 2010
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        I'm sort of relieved you're not a Templar, Dottie, because I've been suspecting you of being one of them mamas Frank and I were discussing ;)

        Well, it's not a mosque that's planned for that address some blocks away from Ground Zero, but a Muslim cultural center open to everyone. Note the difference. On the other hand, this project is being financed, they say, by the Fox News organization, tea party folks, so the whole idea behind it is to create controversy. Not a good idea to take their bait.

        As for the fast growth of Islam, getting converts from Christianity and so on, it's basically what Erich Fromm once called fear of freedom, or rather flight from freedom. Christ expects too much responsibility from the individual, and people don't want to turn the other cheek and give everything they have to the poor and so on. Having to pray five times a day, walking around in portable tents, and having to take that trip to Mecca etc. -- these things may be tedious, but as long as you stick to such formalities you don't have to cleanse your own soul and become holy, because Allah is doing all that for you as long as you stick with his external program. It's all about obedience to scripture; what you get in return is freedom from responsibility for your own karma.

        http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/YoungDoctors/19240424a01.html

        "Just think how abstractly, how brutally, how heedlessly investigations are made into these things today and you will realize what is really lacking and has been killed, in spite of the fact that Arabism did conserve much of the wisdom, conscientiousness and skill of ancient times. It has been killed because Moon, Sun and Saturn—this Trinity which was then disguised as Father, Son and Spirit — disappeared and was repudiated by Arabian thought in Mohammedanism with the words: 'Away with this Trinity. Mohammed proclaims only one God!' (Mohammed himself did not say this, but the Angel who inspired him, did. He was not one of the best Angels although he was a very wise one.)"

        ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Course for Young Doctors, Lecture IV, Dornach, April 24, 1924, GA# 316)

        Tarjei

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm not a Templar Taz and its interesting because there is a way that everyone thinks they were templars...................but I don't think they were all killers and barbaric...there was an end to meet and the true ones who were on a mystery seeking journey and initiatic path were not the barbaric ones although like the Popes maybe they too were in the hierarachic pathway of not touching the blood of those below them in a way....don't know how else to express it....
        >  
        > But you know Taz I have been really conflicted with the whole controversy around the Mosque going up near the New York site where the planes drove into the towers. And I am one who is always on the side of religious freedom and I appreciate Muhammed as well, very much so, as he had a great task to turn the people of the desert towards the consciousness soul age with one God which then allowed the 'people of the book' and the sons of Abraham to begin to understand their journey together.....
        >  
        > What  I am bothered by and rather what I...well what I am bothered by is the very real fact that the Imam's of the mosques, the very conservatice ones, have a way of infiltrating and pushing their own agendas to where they would be able to put themselves in a position to further the hard core conservative view of Islam which serves no one mostly not those who are trying to find the balance between the sons of Abraham.
        >  
        > And this brought a question to my mind in that how is it that Islam is the fastest growing religioun in the world???? How is that? I  have really been pondering that and I want to understand what it is that turn people away from Christ and to Muhammed for there are many Christians who do so and I am confused by that. What is it that Islam offers, not suffiism but Islam......I can only think of the call to God three times a day, as I have said before I really appreciate that devotion regardless of what they are devoting upon, but the act to be devotional towards the heavenly worlds......I can think of no other reason, do you have any thoughts on what it is that brings people to Islam?
        >  
        > They do have a similar feel as the Jews do in their devotion, something the Christians really lack in some way at least as is my experience...they have a similar feel to keep their minds on God throughout their days that I experience Christians pull together on Sundays for the most part.....they really really think of God as ...well i understand there is no freedom in it but at the same time there is this understanding of something more.....
        >  
        > My friend who is a Muslim cannot speak of anything that I speak of with him in the Mosque. He said clearly that he would be in alot of trouble for doing so and this is in los angeles. I keep thinking how can it be that bad that one would think his life is in danger and if so then why is this allowed to go on here in America where, different from Europe, these things are really taken in hand by the law .... i don't think people realized the hardlliners stance and how they do live  next to us day in and day out and they do have people, their own people, in fear of speaking of anything o ther than Muhammed.....its a dilema is what I see.
        >  
        > All good things,
        > Dottie
        >
        >
        > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Sat, 9/11/10, elfuncle <elfuncle@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: elfuncle <elfuncle@...>
        > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Spiritual Experience Ahead and the Popes
        > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 12:18 PM
        >
        >
        > A few years after kidnapping pope Boniface VIII, who died only a month or so after this event, Philip the Fair did all that awful nasty stuff to the Knights Templar. Those crusades those knights participated in were thoroughly barbaric, though, they massacred cities, including Jerusalem, where they actually waded to their knees in blood. Those popes and kings and knights were terrible all of them, absolutely terrible. Not the kind of guys you'd want to bring home to mama.
        >
        > Tarjei
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I really appreciate this, Dottie. One of my favorite episodes from history was the strained relations between Philip the Fair of France and pope Boniface VIII, and the fun part comes in 1303 when king Philip has the pope kidnapped. Boniface VIII was said to be a heretic, a murderer, a sodomite, and -- get this -- keeping a little devil as his private pet! I just love this stuff. It was all about taxation and power and never-ending duels between secular and religious rulers about who should dominate the other.
        > >
        > > Tarjei
        > >
        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > But no Aldo..............this other Pope or gentleman that he had to find or  was seeking............
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
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