Re: SV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Healing vs. tick resistance - the Karmic route
One of your premises are that JvH are influencing Are, that is wrong, on the premises that Are has changed after his connection with JvH it's Ares higher I who were using the energy from JvH to the change, another person can't normally do these things without consent. That the lower I don't know any thing has no relevanse;-)
--- Den tors 12/8/10 skrev Jo Selsjord <jo@...>:
Fra: Jo Selsjord <jo@...>
Emne: Re: SV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Healing vs. tick resistance - the Karmic route
Dato: torsdag 12. august 2010 00.34
Ahh - friends (what makes this possible?),
Thank you for your patient indulgence, and please forgive me for being
such a slob at precision; a fuzzy mind will harbour fuzzy thoughts . . .
I have attempted to treat Are's 'Tick question' as an example pointing
in a more general direction regarding two particular aspects:
1. Organisms (e.g. humans) 'suddenly' becoming poisonous to their
environment more or less specifically.
2. Obviously benevolent humans changing their fellows' influence on the
world to the extent of becoming poisonous to the environment (e.g.
ticks) without their (not the ticks', mind you) specific consent and
My success at pointing out ny basic dislike of killing (fellow beeings)
seems excellent, but this was hardly the intention. Admittedly I try
not to step into ant paths in the forest, avoid trampling snails, toads
and frogs in my way, not smack wasps without a reson, but I eat my fish
and meats gratefully and with little remorse, and my intestinal bacteria
and I are - to my knowledge - often at ease (though seldom 'eye to
I still stall at my idea of Judith von Halle's lectures or presense
taking an 'automagic' part in tick extermination, but have no objection
whatsoever to Are specifically becoming poionous to ticks, as long as it
is a question or phenomenon particular to him - indeed an interesting
one! But my own reflections on Are's initial question change as more
information is submitted (new data quoted below): The less we know, the
more we have to speculate (and vice versa - hopefully) - an aspect of
our 'basic human condition'.
Somewhat desperately trying to conceal my Philistine ancestry: I might
be hard headed and my mind somewhat fuzzy, but I'm seldom outright silly
I hope? Iodine is an efficient disinfectant remedy at times, though not
the first choice for my child as she were (now 21 and counting), and I
gather that Are is not all that fond of disinfectants.
In this context my primary concern is regarding individual, human space
or freedom necessary for a common future. Dotties contribution (quoted
below amongst others) ties my tounge into a nice knot or dot to
summarise what I could not . . .
I very gratefully rest my case on this,
Are Thoresen wrote:
> Dear Dottie and Kim,
> This conversation gets more and more fascinating, but may be a
> little abstract. To be concrete Dottie; if your child has an
> infected wound, wouldn´t you put iodine on, or if a tick bits you
> on your belly, would you not take it off (which would kill it)
> instead of getting borreliosis? If you would, then we must ask;
> if you instead of doing this could do the same by strengthening
> some spiritual functions in your soul, what would the difference
> be? I am not sure myself, I just wanted to discuss the change in
> my energetic body after the meeting with Halle. There were actually
> several changes, and they are progressing all the time, but this
> one with ticks was the most striking at the time I wrote the
> question to you all.
> Are Thoresen
dottie zold wrote:
> Kim, my thoughts and I imagine you know them already, is that
> healing is not about killing off anything rather it is of a
> transformative nature that is a necessity for today. And it has to
> do with consciousness....each of the friends that were healed by
> the Christ agreed to be healed and confirmed that they were healed
> by their willingness to meet the higher need in the physical world.
> On a parasitic level there is a killing off by certain methods
> within the body that are brought about but in any case this does
> not heal why and how the parasites are there to begin with. It is
> the behaviour of the human being that is at issue and it is his
> task to raise himself to the level of consciousness where he can
> create this / heal this, in his own body.
> Today many people are taking away other's rights by doing such
> 'healing's that really are not a healing at all. Not speaking to
> Ms. von Halle in this by the way rather speaking to many who work
> on an artificial level, or a shallow level, where it is a temporary
> healing of what man experiences in his feelings and it never
> reaches his own thinking to affect a real change that relates
> directly to his karma. This is the biggie in today's time....healing
> on a superficial level.
> It is my direct experience that a healing can take place in the
> thinking when there are two or more whether the one is conscious of
> it or not. They have been brought together because the spirit of
> the unconscious one was seeking a healing from the one who has
> built up the healing forces in the body. And the healing in the
> thinking is apparant by the change in how things move and is
> expressed by the other in his own thinking recognizing his own
> feelings that then move towards what he does in the world, and
> mostly in his own world not in an outer worldy way of taking a
> horse and now riding to see where he can make a change...his change
> is his own change that also affects the worldly change just by the
> ability to have raised himself, to have recognized, having
> cognition of what was and what is now.
> "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to
> work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
Are Thoresen wrote:
> Dear Jo, Kim and all,
> This is indeed an interesting discussion.
> Some thoughts come to my mind;
> #The wounds in stigmatic people are reported to be
> non-infectious; which means that their body must have some
> mechanism to kill the bugs landing in the blood
> #In Dostojevskij, he reports the old belief, in The Karamazov
> Brothers, that in holy Moncks their cadaver did not smell after
> death, as their ethereal body still were connected to the
> physical body, killing off all bacteria in the intestines.
> So, it seems that the toxic effect towards the environment is not
> considered malignant in all situations.
> Your own immune system, Jo, is also killing off millions of lived
> every day. It is strange that you oppose a little strengthening of
> same. Our immune system is actually producing immuno globulines,
> called IgE, which are specialised in killing off parasites.
> Are Thoresen
Kim Graae Munch wrote:
> Hi Jo,
> You write:
> What I would object to, however, if that were the case, is an
> uninvited influence suddenly adding tick killing to my karma
> without my own consent and conscience as an active influence.
> Do you have the same problem with your immune system?
> I have no meaning about the tick killing as I have no experience
> with it, It's absolutely possible, but I would assume that it
> only did kill tick's if they were poisonous, but, as I said, I
> have no experience on that particular area.