Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

new versions of Steiner conspiracy lectures

Expand Messages
  • Frank Thomas Smith
    Tom Mellett (banned here by anthro-purists) translates an NNA release. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/13803 Frank
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 26 7:09 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Tom Mellett (banned here by anthro-purists) translates an NNA release.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/13803

      Frank
    • Frank Thomas Smith
      ... This edition is quite important. The original volume contains lectures in which Steiner spoke of secret societies in the west (England and, by cultural
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 28 2:28 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tom Mellett (banned here by anthro-purists) translates an NNA release.
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/13803
        >
        > Frank


        This edition is quite important. The original volume contains lectures in which Steiner spoke of secret societies in the west (England and, by cultural extension, the U.S.) who were responsible for WWI, and their desire that the Anglo-American world dominate the rest of the world. All quite vague, however, which has fed the anthro-conspiracy theorist lunatic fringe. Now this new edition, promised as a "scholarly" reworking of the contents and background, should throw light on what R.S. really said and meant. Only in German of course, and may never be translated (1800 pages - wheh?)
        Frank
      • fs13997
        It will be interesting to see what results from this work, if ever. Beyond those lectures, he also wrote about it in the 1917 memorandum. Today there is enough
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 29 6:31 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          It will be interesting to see what results from this work, if ever. Beyond those lectures, he also wrote about it in the 1917 memorandum. Today there is enough information to support those theories. However, as Carroll Quigley suggested, there are more groups struggling with their own agendas, so it is hard to point at one theory, but rather at many groups. Still, it would be very naive to dismiss the topic saying that it is all just the fruit of imagination. WWII is a clear example of how what is being taught and reality bear scant connections, when we look at the causes. Yet, the essential point is that whether this or that group acts visibly, the real actors are behind the scene of the sensible world, and that our task is to win them within ourselves.

          Federico

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Tom Mellett (banned here by anthro-purists) translates an NNA release.
          > >
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/13803
          > >
          > > Frank
          >
          >
          > This edition is quite important. The original volume contains lectures in which Steiner spoke of secret societies in the west (England and, by cultural extension, the U.S.) who were responsible for WWI, and their desire that the Anglo-American world dominate the rest of the world. All quite vague, however, which has fed the anthro-conspiracy theorist lunatic fringe. Now this new edition, promised as a "scholarly" reworking of the contents and background, should throw light on what R.S. really said and meant. Only in German of course, and may never be translated (1800 pages - wheh?)
          > Frank
          >
        • Frank Thomas Smith
          ... Frank: Quigley is a favorite source for conspiracy theorists. He, however, was not happy at being used as a source: Quigley was later dismissive of
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 29 3:56 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "fs13997" <fs13997@...> wrote:
            >
            > "It will be interesting to see what results from this work, if ever. Beyond those lectures, he also wrote about it in the 1917 memorandum. Today there is enough information to support those theories. However, as Carroll Quigley suggested, there are more groups struggling with their own agendas, so it is hard to point at one theory, but rather at many groups. Still, it would be very naive to dismiss the topic saying that it is all just the fruit of imagination. WWII is a clear example of how what is being taught and reality bear scant connections, when we look at the causes. Yet, the essential point is that whether this or that group acts visibly, the real actors are behind the scene of the sensible world, and that our task is to win them within ourselves."

            Frank: Quigley is a favorite source for conspiracy theorists. He, however, was not happy at being used as a source:
            "Quigley was later dismissive of authors who used his writings to support theories of a world domination conspiracy. Of W. Cleon Skousen's The Naked Capitalist he stated:

            "Skousen's book is full of misrepresentations and factual errors. He claims that I have written of a conspiracy of the super-rich who are pro-Communist and wish to take over the world and that I'm a member of this group. But I never called it a conspiracy and don't regard it as such. I'm not an 'insider' of these rich persons, although Skousen thinks so. I happen to know some of them and liked them, although I disagreed with some of the things they did before 1940."

            On Gary Allen's None Dare Call It Conspiracy he said:

            "They thought Dr. Carroll Quigley proved everything. For example, they constantly misquote me to this effect: that Lord Milner (the dominant trustee of the Cecil Rhodes Trust and a heavy in the Round Table Group) helped finance the Bolsheviks. I have been through the greater part of Milner's private papers and have found no evidence to support that. Further, None Dare Call It Conspiracy insists that international bankers were a single bloc, were all powerful and remain so today. I, on the contrary, stated in my book that they were much divided, often fought among themselves, had great influence but not control of political life and were sharply reduced in power about 1931-1940, when they became less influential than monopolized industry."

            What do you mean by this, Federico?:
            "...WWII is a clear example of how what is being taught and reality bear scant connections, when we look at the causes..."

            The main problem I see is that anthro-theorists use what Steiner said referring to situations in the early 20th century to justify their often crackpot theories about today's events.
            Frank
          • fs13997
            Frank, you do not really think that there are only good initiates, do you? The black ones do act as intermediaries to promote their ends, that is, the ends
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 29 6:19 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Frank, you do not really think that there are only 'good' initiates, do you? The 'black' ones do act as intermediaries to promote their ends, that is, the ends of those who they serve. Those who appear on the scene are not those who control the game, they are being used by others, whether willingly or not. The secret groups and their members that appear on the scene, whether a Philip Kerr, or another personality, represent the visible side. As I wrote, Quigley warned that there are many groups struggling for power. Different groups different goals. Those who act behind the scene may work in such a way that a certain goal is attained. Therefore, it is not easy to point the finger to this or that conspiracy because most of them may not even think they had anything to do with a 'conspiracy." Was the offspring of the Milner Kindergarten a group acting secretly to reach certain goals that related to give the anglo-speaking world a leading position in the world? It is quite clearly so. If that was a conspiracy, eventually it became a very open conspiracy and so it cannot be called a conspiracy. Was that the only group? No, and definitely not the most secret one.
              You agreed with me when you cited Quigley's statement that there is much division among those people. Also, Quigley was not an insider and in fact in T&H he described himself as an outsider. Are there conspiracies? Just looking at the recent past and the P2 scandal, it is unrealistic to discard the existence of conspiracies. Will the 1800 pages new GA173 work completely reverse what was reported Steiner said in GA174? I doubt it will but the easy answer is simply to ask the source, i.e. who worked on the making of GA173.
              Count Polzer-Hoditz did not seem to have any doubt about the existence of those evil groups Steiner talks about (see "Memoires of Rudolf Steiner" - St. George Publications). Nor other individualities after Steiner said anything but to confirm and to give more details about those groups, in particular about the secret masters and in which state their temple was located. Does this matters? It may be relevant to be aware that there are also actual 'black' initiates that work inspired by other sources but, as I stressed, the most important thing is the fight within us. In fact, that is the only thing we can do at this time. The enemy is within.

              Regarding WWII, almost nobody has a clear idea of who were the individualities involved, what were the spiritual goals behind the appearances, what did in fact represent the opposing players of the game. Why certain things went wrong from a spiritual perspective. How events should have really gone and what the outcome should have been. Who was 'good' and who was 'bad.' What was the occult reason for certain events that happened during the course of WWII. All of these and more has been presented in a way that lacks completely any spiritual insight and has been heavily distorted by biased historians (in the sense that they presented history as a battle of the good ones vs. the bad ones). It is unfortunate that it is not possible to talk more about it in 'public' given the extreme bias and feelings toward this topic. Not in this lifetime at least.

              Federico

              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "fs13997" <fs13997@> wrote:
              > >
              > > "It will be interesting to see what results from this work, if ever. Beyond those lectures, he also wrote about it in the 1917 memorandum. Today there is enough information to support those theories. However, as Carroll Quigley suggested, there are more groups struggling with their own agendas, so it is hard to point at one theory, but rather at many groups. Still, it would be very naive to dismiss the topic saying that it is all just the fruit of imagination. WWII is a clear example of how what is being taught and reality bear scant connections, when we look at the causes. Yet, the essential point is that whether this or that group acts visibly, the real actors are behind the scene of the sensible world, and that our task is to win them within ourselves."
              >
              > Frank: Quigley is a favorite source for conspiracy theorists. He, however, was not happy at being used as a source:
              > "Quigley was later dismissive of authors who used his writings to support theories of a world domination conspiracy. Of W. Cleon Skousen's The Naked Capitalist he stated:
              >
              > "Skousen's book is full of misrepresentations and factual errors. He claims that I have written of a conspiracy of the super-rich who are pro-Communist and wish to take over the world and that I'm a member of this group. But I never called it a conspiracy and don't regard it as such. I'm not an 'insider' of these rich persons, although Skousen thinks so. I happen to know some of them and liked them, although I disagreed with some of the things they did before 1940."
              >
              > On Gary Allen's None Dare Call It Conspiracy he said:
              >
              > "They thought Dr. Carroll Quigley proved everything. For example, they constantly misquote me to this effect: that Lord Milner (the dominant trustee of the Cecil Rhodes Trust and a heavy in the Round Table Group) helped finance the Bolsheviks. I have been through the greater part of Milner's private papers and have found no evidence to support that. Further, None Dare Call It Conspiracy insists that international bankers were a single bloc, were all powerful and remain so today. I, on the contrary, stated in my book that they were much divided, often fought among themselves, had great influence but not control of political life and were sharply reduced in power about 1931-1940, when they became less influential than monopolized industry."
              >
              > What do you mean by this, Federico?:
              > "...WWII is a clear example of how what is being taught and reality bear scant connections, when we look at the causes..."
              >
              > The main problem I see is that anthro-theorists use what Steiner said referring to situations in the early 20th century to justify their often crackpot theories about today's events.
              > Frank
              >
            • dottie zold
              Hey Friends, can t get the bold off sorry...anyhow Elderberries got a nice little lift, big bold lift, from one Ms. Jenni Alpert, an amazing young lady who is
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 30 1:54 PM
              • 0 Attachment

                Hey Friends, can't get the bold off sorry...anyhow Elderberries got a nice little lift, big bold lift, from one Ms. Jenni Alpert, an amazing young lady who is as heart talented as she is musically rocking...here is her facebook page, maybe yall shall think of friending her and below is what she wrote about us, unfortunately me but I want to support her so I add it too. Just got an eviction  notice but the loan is here almost and with Ms. Alpert we have brougth in the final missing link we needed.

                http://jennialpert.com/fr_home.cfm

                 

                Elderberries Acoustic Wednesday 'IN RAW FORM' (see who's raw this week!)

                Elderberries.... Elderberries is a vegan cafe located on Sunset Blvd near Fairfax (Sierra Bonita) owned by a beautiful woman named Dottie. Her huge heart works to support children in the foster care system and assists the homeless and those suffering with mental illness. Most of you don't know my connection to these things, but for those of you who have read a bit of my own personal backstory over the years of having been in the foster care system myself in my early years and personal experience with working closely with both the homeless and those who struggle with mental illness, this was quite a connection to share with such a lovely optimist as Dottie is. With Dottie, she makes a difference then talks about  it. About 8 months ago she opened up this dream vegan / raw cafe which specializes in serving juices, smoothies, iced tea lattes, inteligencia coffee, and a variety of vegan dishes. As luck would have it, when things started to get rocky as often things do with the challenges of a new business, she presevered, holding tightly onto her dream focusing on 'all good things' as we all should try to do. Just recently, she has brought me in to help design parts of the menu and it is very exciting creative outlet for me. In addition starting this coming July I will be hosting a Music on Wednesday there from 7-10pm featuring some of the finest songwriters performing 'In Raw Form'. Justine Bennett, Liz Clark, Jamie Drake, B Willing, and Scott Mellis to name a few. Come by on a Wed and check out who is there!!! Things happen all in their due time for a reason and another....

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                 

              • dottie zold
                Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt s door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn t
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 30 3:15 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                   
                  Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                   
                   
                   

                  Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                   
                  Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                   
                  And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                   
                  File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                   
                  Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                   
                  And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                   
                   
                  Now, who is Homer:)
                   
                  Gotta run, d
                   
                   
                   
                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner


                • dottie zold
                  Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 30 3:47 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted Joseph of many colors...does he not remind you of that man on a horse on the ridge of the Goethean...or the Polish Rider....and look its actually a halo or something around the face of Josephs' wife:

                    File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                     
                    And I was thinking .........oh boy what was I thinking:) ....I was thinking that......that.....oh, I was thinking that isn't it interesting that one who was persecuting the Christians, just as Judas betrayed the Christ, would be one who was the heir ....d
                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                    --- On Wed, 6/30/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                    From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                    Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 3:15 PM



                    Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                     
                    Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                     
                     
                     

                    Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                     
                    Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                     
                    And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                     
                    File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                     
                    Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                     
                    And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                     
                     
                    Now, who is Homer:)
                     
                    Gotta run, d
                     
                     
                     
                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





                  • Kim Graae Munch
                    It s a wonderful story, but as Boaz is the left pillar he should be Christian Rosenkreutz (who were the Spanish rider, i think) and Rudolf Steiner should be
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 1, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      It's a wonderful story, but as Boaz is the left pillar he should be Christian Rosenkreutz (who were the Spanish rider, i think) and Rudolf Steiner should be Joachim. It's quite interesting that it's the woman who are the karmic force in many of the stories of the OT, both here and as Abrahams and Isac's wifes.

                      II Chronicles 3:15-17
                      Also he made before the House two pillars of thirty and five cubits in heights and the chapiter that was on the top of each of them was made five cubits. And he made chains, as in the oracle, and put them on the heads of the pillars, and made an hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains. And he reared up the pillars before the Temple, one on the right hand, and the other on the left; and called the name of that on the right hand "Jachin", and the name of that on the left he called "Boaz".
                      From THOSE MYSTERIOUS PILLARS : BOAZ and JACHIN

                      From "Cosmic Sophia, and Human Anthroposophia" by Adriana Koulias:

                      Rudolf Steiner once characterized his relationship to Christian Rosenkreutz thus: a supersensible altar in the spiritual world and beside it on the left stands Christian Rosenkreutz in a blue stole and on the right, Rudolf Steiner in a red stole. These are the garments, blue and red of the Mary Sophia.36 Think of Raphael' Sistine Madonna. She wears a cloak, a Palla that is blue and red. This is indicative of the Blue Blood and Red Blood – the Joachim and Boaz, and points to the future thinking heart in which an Etherisation of the blood will take place which is the result of the unification of thinking (blue) and feeling (red) through the light of the Holy spirit that in man is the Spirit Self.


                      Kim

                      --- Den tors 1/7/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                      Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                      Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                      Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      Dato: torsdag 1. juli 2010 00.47

                       

                      Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted Joseph of many colors...does he not remind you of that man on a horse on the ridge of the Goethean...or the Polish Rider....and look its actually a halo or something around the face of Josephs' wife:

                      File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                       
                      And I was thinking .........oh boy what was I thinking:) ....I was thinking that......that. ....oh, I was thinking that isn't it interesting that one who was persecuting the Christians, just as Judas betrayed the Christ, would be one who was the heir ....d
                      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                      --- On Wed, 6/30/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                      Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                      To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 3:15 PM



                      Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                       
                      Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                       
                       
                       

                      Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                       
                      Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                       
                      And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                       
                      File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                       
                      Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                       
                      And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                       
                       
                      Now, who is Homer:)
                       
                      Gotta run, d
                       
                       
                       
                      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner






                    • Kim Graae Munch
                      You know that the first should be the last, and I think Judas was Judah (his incarnation as Judas Maccabeus points in that direction), and you know that the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 1, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        You know that the first should be the last, and I think Judas was Judah (his incarnation as Judas Maccabeus points in that direction), and you know that the last should be the first, and I think that Judas, representing the Ego of Christ, are again on the path (after 1879) (Samantabhadra.) There is three exceptional disciples around Christ: Peter, John, and Judas, and that is, as always in the bible, not a coincidence.
                        Kim

                        --- Den tors 1/7/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                        Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                        Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                        Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        Dato: torsdag 1. juli 2010 00.47

                         

                        Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted Joseph of many colors...does he not remind you of that man on a horse on the ridge of the Goethean...or the Polish Rider....and look its actually a halo or something around the face of Josephs' wife:

                        File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                         
                        And I was thinking .........oh boy what was I thinking:) ....I was thinking that......that. ....oh, I was thinking that isn't it interesting that one who was persecuting the Christians, just as Judas betrayed the Christ, would be one who was the heir ....d
                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                        --- On Wed, 6/30/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 3:15 PM



                        Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                         
                        Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                         
                         
                         

                        Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                         
                        Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                         
                        And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                         
                        File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                         
                        Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                         
                        And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                         
                         
                        Now, who is Homer:)
                         
                        Gotta run, d
                         
                         
                         
                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner






                      • Kim Graae Munch
                        It s a good observation that Paul (out of time) were the replacement of Judas. I hadn t thought of that and it explains a lot. Kim ... Fra: dottie zold
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 1, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It's a good observation that Paul (out of time) were the replacement of Judas. I hadn't thought of that and it explains a lot.
                          Kim

                          --- Den tors 1/7/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                          Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                          Emne: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                          Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          Dato: torsdag 1. juli 2010 00.15

                           

                          Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                           
                          Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                           
                           
                           

                          Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                           
                          Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                           
                          And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                           
                          File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                           
                          Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                           
                          And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                           
                           
                          Now, who is Homer:)
                           
                          Gotta run, d
                           
                           
                           
                          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                        • dottie zold
                          Oh and look at that damn snake front and center as the bed post :   Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 1, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Oh and look at that damn snake front and center as the bed post :
                             
                            File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg

                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                            --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                            From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 12:55 AM



                            It's a wonderful story, but as Boaz is the left pillar he should be Christian Rosenkreutz (who were the Spanish rider, i think) and Rudolf Steiner should be Joachim. It's quite interesting that it's the woman who are the karmic force in many of the stories of the OT, both here and as Abrahams and Isac's wifes.

                            II Chronicles 3:15-17
                            Also he made before the House two pillars of thirty and five cubits in heights and the chapiter that was on the top of each of them was made five cubits. And he made chains, as in the oracle, and put them on the heads of the pillars, and made an hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains. And he reared up the pillars before the Temple, one on the right hand, and the other on the left; and called the name of that on the right hand "Jachin", and the name of that on the left he called "Boaz".
                            From THOSE MYSTERIOUS PILLARS : BOAZ and JACHIN

                            From "Cosmic Sophia, and Human Anthroposophia" by Adriana Koulias:
                            Rudolf Steiner once characterized his relationship to Christian Rosenkreutz thus: a supersensible altar in the spiritual world and beside it on the left stands Christian Rosenkreutz in a blue stole and on the right, Rudolf Steiner in a red stole. These are the garments, blue and red of the Mary Sophia.36 Think of Raphael' Sistine Madonna. She wears a cloak, a Palla that is blue and red. This is indicative of the Blue Blood and Red Blood – the Joachim and Boaz, and points to the future thinking heart in which an Etherisation of the blood will take place which is the result of the unification of thinking (blue) and feeling (red) through the light of the Holy spirit that in man is the Spirit Self.

                            Kim

                            --- Den tors 1/7/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                            Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                            Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                            Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Dato: torsdag 1. juli 2010 00.47

                             
                            Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted Joseph of many colors...does he not remind you of that man on a horse on the ridge of the Goethean...or the Polish Rider....and look its actually a halo or something around the face of Josephs' wife:

                            File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                             
                            And I was thinking .........oh boy what was I thinking:) ....I was thinking that......that. ....oh, I was thinking that isn't it interesting that one who was persecuting the Christians, just as Judas betrayed the Christ, would be one who was the heir ....d
                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                            --- On Wed, 6/30/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                            From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                            Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                            To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 3:15 PM



                            Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                             
                            Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                             
                             
                             

                            Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                             
                            Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                             
                            And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                             
                            File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                             
                            Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                             
                            And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                             
                             
                            Now, who is Homer:)
                             
                            Gotta run, d
                             
                             
                             
                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner









                          • dottie zold
                            Well, there is the other snake by the woman, and it is looking at the children, one at us and the other at the children...can you see what is standing between,
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jul 1, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Well, there is the other snake by the woman, and it is looking at the children, one at us and the other at the children...can you see what is standing between, on the wall, Joseph and his wife? d

                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Thu, 7/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 7:43 AM



                              Oh and look at that damn snake front and center as the bed post :
                               
                              File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg

                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                              From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 12:55 AM



                              It's a wonderful story, but as Boaz is the left pillar he should be Christian Rosenkreutz (who were the Spanish rider, i think) and Rudolf Steiner should be Joachim. It's quite interesting that it's the woman who are the karmic force in many of the stories of the OT, both here and as Abrahams and Isac's wifes.

                              II Chronicles 3:15-17
                              Also he made before the House two pillars of thirty and five cubits in heights and the chapiter that was on the top of each of them was made five cubits. And he made chains, as in the oracle, and put them on the heads of the pillars, and made an hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains. And he reared up the pillars before the Temple, one on the right hand, and the other on the left; and called the name of that on the right hand "Jachin", and the name of that on the left he called "Boaz".
                              From THOSE MYSTERIOUS PILLARS : BOAZ and JACHIN

                              From "Cosmic Sophia, and Human Anthroposophia" by Adriana Koulias:
                              Rudolf Steiner once characterized his relationship to Christian Rosenkreutz thus: a supersensible altar in the spiritual world and beside it on the left stands Christian Rosenkreutz in a blue stole and on the right, Rudolf Steiner in a red stole. These are the garments, blue and red of the Mary Sophia.36 Think of Raphael' Sistine Madonna. She wears a cloak, a Palla that is blue and red. This is indicative of the Blue Blood and Red Blood – the Joachim and Boaz, and points to the future thinking heart in which an Etherisation of the blood will take place which is the result of the unification of thinking (blue) and feeling (red) through the light of the Holy spirit that in man is the Spirit Self.

                              Kim

                              --- Den tors 1/7/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                              Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                              Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                              Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                              Dato: torsdag 1. juli 2010 00.47

                               
                              Oh oh oh...yes I forgot...I was reminded of or inspired to consider Ms. Wegmen and Rudolf Steiner as Ruth and Boaz. ....and look at this most curiously painted Joseph of many colors...does he not remind you of that man on a horse on the ridge of the Goethean...or the Polish Rider....and look its actually a halo or something around the face of Josephs' wife:

                              File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                               
                              And I was thinking .........oh boy what was I thinking:) ....I was thinking that......that. ....oh, I was thinking that isn't it interesting that one who was persecuting the Christians, just as Judas betrayed the Christ, would be one who was the heir ....d
                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Wed, 6/30/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                              Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Saint Peter and Paul
                              To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 3:15 PM



                              Hi Friends, I have been reading St. Paul for a few weeks now and I found myself knocking at Rembrandt's door curiously. I went to purchase a book and didn't realize I did not have enough  money for my $20 purchase of a sketch board for Elderberries along with some plates etc and had to put back a book I wanted to purchase that had jumped out at me, Rembrandt's Sketches. As i went to put it back I heard the salesman hollar to another 'the young lady has $24 and the price is $25', (this did not include the $3 for the book) and the other person hollared back 'that is fine'. I showed him the book was not a part of that gift transaction and he smiled so beautifully at me and handed it to me. :) so I come home with this interesting book.
                               
                              Below we have an interesting self portrait of Mr. Rembrandt as Saint Paul.
                               
                               
                               

                              Now, in this sketch book I also come to some inspirations that I did not intend to do and I was kinda surprised one by one these connections kept coming up for me....I mean I have for years been wondering and contemplating on things but as I looked at these paintings, just like with Da Vinci's I feel like I see their secrets. For example, in Rembrandts sketches and paintings I find he has hidden hebrew letters and also numbers. I do not know if anyone knows this. They are clear as a bell for me. He has hidden so much which is why or because of what he has found in Da Vinci's paintings. He was a rebel as much as Da Vinci was.
                               
                              Now, interestingly enough as well, we have to consider why this man would paint himself as St. Paul. Not only that but we have to consider who really took Judas' place: it was St. Paul. This was the one chosen by the Lord, not the one chosen by the disciples. This man St. Paul was chosen. And as Peter was the one chosen for the jews, Paul was chosen for the gentiles.
                               
                              And that last sentence is what led me to wonder who was Peter and Paul in the Old Testament. In fact, who were the disciples throughout history...we really never talk about that or really contemplate that deeper. Well, I think I have found maybe a little clue to Peter and Paul:
                               
                              File:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 062.jpg
                               
                              Now, look at the wife also, very interesting face, veil actually.
                               
                              And, now look below, we have Aristotle considering a bust of Homer. What the heck is this saying....I have to say that Paul is deeply connected to Paul. And of course we wouldn't expect anything else would we with a man known as the closest of all to the Christ Consciousness as Rudolf Steiner, and the first in full consciousness, different from that of Lazarus at the time, with Paul.
                               
                               
                              Now, who is Homer:)
                               
                              Gotta run, d
                               
                               
                               
                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner












                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.