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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian

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  • dottie zold
    Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes....whew,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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      Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes....whew, d

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner


    • dottie zold
      My mind has been on Hypatia and I just found yesterday that there is a movie with her history called Agora coming out soon or is now out and about.....while
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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        My mind has been on Hypatia and I just found yesterday that there is a movie with her history called Agora coming out soon or is now out and about.....while looking at something this morning I found myself with the school of athens by Raphael....she seems to be the only living female in the painting:
         
         
         
        I remember when first seeing this painting a few years back I thought it was a sophian element, and it is but with a real living history of a woman at that time who was torn limb by limb and then even had her skin torn off.
         
        I was interested in the relations around her and found a wonderful friend and colleague maybe student named Synesius of Cyrene:  http://www.livius.org/su-sz/synesius/synesius_cyrene.html
        He has a most amazing poem, I think I want to do this sort of poetry here at Elderberries and the night will be called Faust in the Hause! :) this poem looks to be on baldness but alas by the time I hit part four of 25! I found it to be on the Magdalene and the hairdressers albeit of my own studies from a comment many years ago by my rabbi about Mary, mother of Jesus, was a hairdresser!
         
         
        [1169] [Dio's In Praise of Hair; 1] "After rising in the morning and praying to the gods, as is my custom, I attended to my hair; I happened to be in poor health at the time, and it had been too long uncared for. The most of it had become knotted and entangled, as that which hangs about a sheep's legs, but much coarser than this, for it is tangled with fine hairs. The hair was accordingly uncouth and heavy to behold. And it was difficult to unravel; the most of it was torn out and subjected to a strain.
         
        Thus the idea came to me of praising those who make a cult of their hair, who love beauty, and give their hair great importance, and who not merely give it serious attention but even keep a sort of reed in the hair itself, [1172] with which they comb it when they are at leisure. And this is the most difficult thing; they guard against touching the earth with it when sleeping on the ground, for they have to place a small piece of wood under the head that it may be separated from the earth as much as possible; and they think much more of keeping their hair clean than of sleeping agreeably, for it would seem to make them fine looking and awe-inspiring, whereas sleep, however sweet, only makes them sluggish and careless.
         
        The Lacedaemonians, too, seem to me to be not neglectful of such a fact, as they came forward before the great and terrible battle at the time when they alone of all Greeks were to engage the king.[2] At that moment numbering only three hundred, they sat them down and dressed their hair.
         
        Again, Homer seems to me to consider such a thing worthy of the greatest care. It is not often that he praises handsome men for their eyes, nor does he think to make beauty evident most of all therein. He makes no encomium on the eyes of any of the heroes, except Agamemnon, and that only in praising the rest of his body besides;[3] and he not merely describes the Greeks as men of quick-glancing eyes, though no less to Agamemnon does he apply the epithet common to Greeks, but he praises them all for their hair; in the first place Achilles

         

        and she [Athena] seized the son of Peleus by his fair hair.[4]

        Then Menelaus he calls blond because of his hair,[5] and he mentions Hector's hair in these words:

         

        and round about his dark hair was dragged in the dust.[6]

        So when Euphorbus, the fairest of the Trojans, had died, he deplored nothing else but this, saying

         

        His hair like to the Graces was dyed with blood
        and his tresses adorned with gold and silver.[7]

         
        And of Odysseus, whenever he wishes to show how beautiful he had become at the hand of Athena, he says

         

        his hair turned black.[8]

        And again about the same hero:

                                                             

           down from his head
        she sent curling hair to grow like the flower of the hyacinth.[9]

         
        Now adornment of hair seems to become men more than women according to Homer, for when he discourses of the beauty of women, he does not so often seem to have recalled to mind their hair. He praises those amongst the deities who are female, in other ways, he makes Aphrodite "golden", Hera "ox-eyed" and Thetis "silver-footed"; but in the case of Zeus he praises his hair most of all:

         

        The ambrosial locks of the king floated waving from his head.[10]

        Dottie: I really really really like this Synesius of Cyrene! He has my kinda humor and lightness that I love....that was really cool to happen upon this as I awoke:)
         
        All good things,
        Dottie
        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



        --- On Sat, 6/5/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 7:21 AM



        Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes....whew, d

        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





      • dottie zold
        Here is the movie I was speaking to that speaks to Hypatia of old:   http://passionateabouthistory.blogspot.com/2009/05/film-agora-profiles-female.html d  
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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          Here is the movie I was speaking to that speaks to Hypatia of old:
           


           


          --- On Sat, 6/5/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

          From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Hypatia
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 8:12 AM



          My mind has been on Hypatia and I just found yesterday that there is a movie with her history called Agora coming out soon or is now out and about.....while looking at something this morning I found myself with the school of athens by Raphael....she seems to be the only living female in the painting:
           
           
           
          I remember when first seeing this painting a few years back I thought it was a sophian element, and it is but with a real living history of a woman at that time who was torn limb by limb and then even had her skin torn off.
           
          I was interested in the relations around her and found a wonderful friend and colleague maybe student named Synesius of Cyrene:  http://www.livius.org/su-sz/synesius/synesius_cyrene.html
          He has a most amazing poem, I think I want to do this sort of poetry here at Elderberries and the night will be called Faust in the Hause! :) this poem looks to be on baldness but alas by the time I hit part four of 25! I found it to be on the Magdalene and the hairdressers albeit of my own studies from a comment many years ago by my rabbi about Mary, mother of Jesus, was a hairdresser!
           
           
          [1169] [Dio's In Praise of Hair; 1] "After rising in the morning and praying to the gods, as is my custom, I attended to my hair; I happened to be in poor health at the time, and it had been too long uncared for. The most of it had become knotted and entangled, as that which hangs about a sheep's legs, but much coarser than this, for it is tangled with fine hairs. The hair was accordingly uncouth and heavy to behold. And it was difficult to unravel; the most of it was torn out and subjected to a strain.
           
          Thus the idea came to me of praising those who make a cult of their hair, who love beauty, and give their hair great importance, and who not merely give it serious attention but even keep a sort of reed in the hair itself, [1172] with which they comb it when they are at leisure. And this is the most difficult thing; they guard against touching the earth with it when sleeping on the ground, for they have to place a small piece of wood under the head that it may be separated from the earth as much as possible; and they think much more of keeping their hair clean than of sleeping agreeably, for it would seem to make them fine looking and awe-inspiring, whereas sleep, however sweet, only makes them sluggish and careless.
           
          The Lacedaemonians, too, seem to me to be not neglectful of such a fact, as they came forward before the great and terrible battle at the time when they alone of all Greeks were to engage the king.[2] At that moment numbering only three hundred, they sat them down and dressed their hair.
           
          Again, Homer seems to me to consider such a thing worthy of the greatest care. It is not often that he praises handsome men for their eyes, nor does he think to make beauty evident most of all therein. He makes no encomium on the eyes of any of the heroes, except Agamemnon, and that only in praising the rest of his body besides;[3] and he not merely describes the Greeks as men of quick-glancing eyes, though no less to Agamemnon does he apply the epithet common to Greeks, but he praises them all for their hair; in the first place Achilles

           

          and she [Athena] seized the son of Peleus by his fair hair.[4]

          Then Menelaus he calls blond because of his hair,[5] and he mentions Hector's hair in these words:

           

          and round about his dark hair was dragged in the dust.[6]

          So when Euphorbus, the fairest of the Trojans, had died, he deplored nothing else but this, saying

           

          His hair like to the Graces was dyed with blood
          and his tresses adorned with gold and silver.[7]

           
          And of Odysseus, whenever he wishes to show how beautiful he had become at the hand of Athena, he says

           

          his hair turned black.[8]

          And again about the same hero:

                                                               

             down from his head
          she sent curling hair to grow like the flower of the hyacinth.[9]

           
          Now adornment of hair seems to become men more than women according to Homer, for when he discourses of the beauty of women, he does not so often seem to have recalled to mind their hair. He praises those amongst the deities who are female, in other ways, he makes Aphrodite "golden", Hera "ox-eyed" and Thetis "silver-footed"; but in the case of Zeus he praises his hair most of all:

           

          The ambrosial locks of the king floated waving from his head.[10]

          Dottie: I really really really like this Synesius of Cyrene! He has my kinda humor and lightness that I love....that was really cool to happen upon this as I awoke:)
           
          All good things,
          Dottie
          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Sat, 6/5/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

          From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 7:21 AM



          Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes....whew, d

          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner








        • Kim Graae Munch
          I just had an experience where an anthro called arrogance an ahrimanian vice, so I wanted to put my idea into words. Kim ... Fra: dottie zold
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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            I just had an experience where an anthro called arrogance an ahrimanian vice, so I wanted to put my idea into words.
            Kim

            --- Den lør 5/6/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

            Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
            Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
            Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Dato: lørdag 5. juni 2010 16.21

             

            Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes.. ..whew, d

            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          • dottie zold
            like you just showed Kim, nothing fits into these neat little packages to be defined...arrogance can be part of an Ahrimanic mannerism very easily....its
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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              like you just showed Kim, nothing fits into these neat little packages to be defined...arrogance can be part of an Ahrimanic mannerism very easily....its probably what's underlying it that your speaking to however arrogance easily fits in that gesture as well...d

              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



              --- On Sat, 6/5/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

              From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 10:54 AM



              I just had an experience where an anthro called arrogance an ahrimanian vice, so I wanted to put my idea into words.
              Kim

              --- Den lør 5/6/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

              Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
              Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
              Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Dato: lørdag 5. juni 2010 16.21

               
              Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes.. ..whew, d

              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner






            • Kim Graae Munch
              So, everything can be everything? The question whats Ahrimanian and whats Luciferic is uninteresting, what counts are that we can swear in the name of Ahriman
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 5, 2010
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                So, everything can be everything? The question whats Ahrimanian and whats Luciferic is uninteresting, what counts are that we can swear in the name of Ahriman as we wants.

                Steiner writes about the danger of the dualistic view setting good over for evil, setting God as good and the devil as evil, where he said that God is the equilibrium between the Luciferic evil and the Ahrimanic evil, but if we set all evil under the domain of Ahrimain we does evil a service.

                The most used word by Anthros is Ahriman, and the second most used word is Lucifer, so we should either use them less or know what we talk about when we use them.

                By the way, I think that my rule of thumb was pretty good, but who cares:)

                Kim

                --- Den lør 5/6/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
                Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Dato: lørdag 5. juni 2010 20.27

                 

                like you just showed Kim, nothing fits into these neat little packages to be defined...arrogance can be part of an Ahrimanic mannerism very easily....its probably what's underlying it that your speaking to however arrogance easily fits in that gesture as well...d

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Sat, 6/5/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 10:54 AM



                I just had an experience where an anthro called arrogance an ahrimanian vice, so I wanted to put my idea into words.
                Kim

                --- Den lør 5/6/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>:

                Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                Emne: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Confusion between what is Luciferic and Ahrimanian
                Til: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                Dato: lørdag 5. juni 2010 16.21

                 
                Kim, I know you like to throw slings and arrows at anthros but my experience is that they are pretty clear on ahriman and lucifer and their attributes.. ..whew, d

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner







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