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Good Friday thru Easter

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  • radistasi
    When Christ spoke the words - It Is Finished - while upon the Cross, what He spoke of cosmically was that the Fall of humanity into matter, into Death, and all
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 1, 2010
      When Christ spoke the words - It Is Finished - while upon the Cross, what He spoke of cosmically was that the Fall of humanity into matter, into Death, and all of the forces that brought humanity deeply into this condition were now to be reversed. Christ died upon the Cross of 'matter' and has united His Being with the earth itself. A new Impulse of spiritual Life was brought into the sphere of the earth that would now bring a reversal of direction to the course of human and earthly evolution. The two earthquakes that took place, one immediately after the death of Christ on the Cross and the other at the time of the Resurrection acted as signs from the earth itself. (Matthew 27: 51 & 28: 2). The original luciferic forces that precipitated the earth's downward course and had permeated the earth for ages were brought to a halt by Christ at the Crucifixion on Golgotha. When the primordial luciferic forces of the Fall came to a sudden cessation, this literally shook the physical earth at its foundations as the Christ began to enter into the sub-realms. The return of Christ from the sub-realms at the moment of the Resurrection also shook the earth at its foundations as this Event initiated the reversal of the downward course of the Fall. It was at this time that the new forces of the Resurrection and the eventual Ascension of the earth and humanity to the spiritual spheres were begun by Christ on Easter Sunday morning . As a result, a reversal in the direction of human and earthly evolution was now ushered in. Steiner, therefore, refers to the Mystery of Golgotha as the Turning Point in Time.

      Christ's words - It Is Finished - marks this turning point. The Fall had reached its nadir and the Ascension was about to begin. When one reflects on these three words from Christ on Calvary and carefully considers the vast implications of their meaning, it is possible to say that these three words may have been the most powerful words ever spoken in all of human and earthly evolution. With these three words the new course of human and earthly evolution now begins to expand outwardly from within the Christ-imbued inner Selves of humanity and from the core center of the earth. Earlier it had been indicated that the Christ had become a Macrocosmic Being at the beginning of the Earth Manvantara. He was given regency over our solar system and the zodiacal constellations from the Father Being who had been its Regent from the time of the Saturn Period. From the lecture cycle, "Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy," Steiner comments: "Now, these earthly things we see around us with our senses, the things that have come about on earth, neither originate from these nature spirits nor from the Father God Who actually expressed His creative Being only in the metamorphoses preceding the earth. What we see as earth does not originate from the Father God nor from the nature spirits. It comes from the Son, from the Logos, whom the Father God let spring forth from Himself so that the earth might be created by the Logos. And the Gospel of St. John, a mighty, significant monument was written in order to indicate: No, it is not as the people of old believed; the earth was not created by the Father God. The Father God made the Son come forth from Him; and the Son is the creator of the earth." [Lecture XVI; Dornach, June 3, 1921].

      At the beginning of the Earth Manvantara Christ emerged from the Father Being as a Macrocosmic Being and was given regency over this solar system and the zodiacal constellations. However, this conveyance of regency was not fully completed until Christ once again returned to within the Being of the Father after the death on the Cross and then re-emerged from the Father. This `Second' emergence of the Christ Being from the Father Being during the Earth Manvantara was consummated from within the core center of the earth. This was the Resurrection of Christ. The post-Crucifixion Initiation of the Christ Being within the Being of the Father gave Christ the capacity to transubstantiate the Father Principle which still resides within the element of matter and which comprises this solar system. It is the Father Principle within matter which the Christ will invert and raise to the next condition of form: the astral condition. The stage at which the Christ presented Himself to Mary Magdalene on Easter morning marked the initial point of His personal ascension process as well as the ascension process of our cosmos. Christ intimated these principles in His priestly prayer to the Father immediately prior to His arrest: "Father, the hour has come! Glorify thy Son, that thy Son may Glorify thee . . . ," (John 17: 1). Also, "And now do thou, Father, glorify me with thyself, with the glory that I had with thee before the world existed." (John 17: 5). In the final moments of the Crucifixion, when Christ said the following words, "Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke: 23: 46), Christ acknowledges His imminent union with the Father Being. These words were then followed by His death; His descent into the sub-realms; His macrocosmic Initiation within the Being of the Father; His emergence from the Father Being from within the core of the earth; and, the eventual coalescence of His Being with the realm of the Father element of the earth and with the cosmic space of our cosmos that extends outwardly from the core of the earth to the ends of our solar system and beyond which would include the zodiacal constellations.

      The new `Son' creation begins `within' the soul and spirit of the human Being and thereby reverses the pre-Crucifixion creation of our cosmos. The human Self now becomes the foundation stone for a new cosmos. When Christ said to the Pharisees, "For behold, the kingdom of God is within you," (Luke 17: 21) He was addressing these words to the old Order of understanding. He specifically spoke these words to the Pharisees because their understanding was based on that which was to be gained only from the past prior to the Advent of the Christ on earth. The past wisdom was now to give way to the new wisdom. Contained in these words spoken to the Pharisees is the admonition to understand that the kingdom of God, the Christ-imbued soul and spirit of the human Being, is now the center of the new creation. In this Gospel verse, we can see the boundless cosmic evolutionary implications that are often contained in the words of Christ. In a lecture given December 27, 1918 Steiner stated the following: "At the time that the Mystery of Golgotha took place, the human Being was hollowed out; he became hollow. And it is important that we learn to recognize the Mystery of Golgotha as an Impulse that has a reciprocal relation to this hollowed-out condition of man. If we speak truly, we must make it clear that the hollow space in man, which indeed could be found still earlier - let us say, in the Egypto-Chaldean royal Mysteries - had to be filled up in some way. In that ancient time it had been partly filled by the real Ego; but this now comes to a stop at birth - or at least, in early childhood; there is some evidence of its presence in the first years of childhood. This hollow space has been filled by the Christ Impulse."

      The above statement from Steiner presents an intriguing question in regard to the following when he said: "And it is important that we learn to recognize the Mystery of Golgotha as an Impulse that has a reciprocal relation to this hollowed-out condition of man." This reciprocal relation could possibly be expressed by the following in that this cosmos was also hollowed-out when Christ, the Macrocosmic Ego and Higher Self of this cosmos, experienced Death on the Cross. After Christ's death on the Cross our planetary system and the zodiacal constellations reflected the condition of the human soul such that they too were hollowed-out and devoid of their Macrocosmic Ego. The Christ, during His Initiation by the Father, passed through a pralaya; a Cosmic Night of His Being. This cosmos, for whatever brief time, no longer had its Macrocosmic Ego within it. From this, we can draw a parallel to the hollowed-out soul condition of humanity, as stated by Steiner, to that of the hollowed-out condition of our cosmos. This Macrocosmic Initiation of the Christ Being by the Father, as stated previously, is a complete reversal to the pattern of a human Initiate's experience. While on the Cross, Christ's utterance of the words, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me," inaugurates the beginning of the Macrocosmic Initiation of the Christ. This is the reversal to the human Initiate's, "My God, my God, you have glorified me," which is expressed at the conclusion of the Initiation process. Christ then descended into lower realms whereas the human Initiate ascends into higher realms. The human Initiate subsequently reaches an illumination of consciousness whereas the Christ is momentarily extinguished from our cosmos while in His pralaya condition within the Being of the Father. This is the key point. The entirety of His descent to earth, His Baptism, His Crucifixion and Death on the Cross culminated in the Death of His Being within this cosmos. The protracted death process which actually began when He first took leave of the highest spheres consummated in the momentary hollowing-out of His Macrocosmic Ego from this cosmos which was preceded by His words, ". . . Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke 23:46). At the completion of His descent into the sub-realms, the Christ Being was drawn into the Being of the Father where He resided, momentarily, in a pralaya or Cosmic Night condition. Thereby, this cosmos was momentarily without its Macrocosmic Ego; the Christ. Throughout Christ's time on earth, while incrementally incarnating deeper within the body of Jesus of Nazareth, He was increasingly losing his conscious connection with the spiritual world. Thereby, it becomes possible to assert that Christ completed His Death process to the fullest only when He ultimately passed into a momentary subjugation of His macrocosmic consciousness. That is, He lost all consciousness, all spiritual illumination during His pralaya; the Cosmic Night of His Being. This was the ultimate state of Christ's death and its eventual culmination into the Being of the Father. Again, this would complete the reversed pattern of His Initiation to that of the human Initiate's illumination. It also completed the actuation of fulfilling His experience of losing consciousness as humans would, in their sojourns after death, eventually lose consciousness. The Christ Being, a Being of the Highest Order, had now experienced the parallel to the human earthly experience; the momentary vanquishing of awakened consciousness.

      Christ's momentary vanquishing of consciousness is intimated by Steiner from the following: "Human beings here in the physical world are born and they die; the characteristic of the divine, spiritual beings who belong to the higher hierarchies is that they are not born, neither do they die, but only undergo a transformation. Christ, Who until the time of the Mystery of Golgotha lived with the other divine, spiritual beings, resolved to know death, to descend to Earth, to become man, and within the nature of man to pass through death, thereafter to return to consciousness through the Resurrection. In the divine-spiritual world it was an event of the deepest significance that a God should experience death." [Dornach; March 24, 1922; "The Three Stages of Sleep"; GA:211; source: www.elib.com]
      During the course of the progression of the Manvantaras a Cosmic Night precedes each new Manvantara. At the beginning of the Earth Manvantara the Christ Being stood as the First Cause. Christ came from beyond the constellations and descended to Earth. This course was now reversed. After His Cosmic Death and pralaya, Christ emerged from the Father from within the center of the earth. He reawakened and resurrected from His own post-Crucifixion pralaya from within the Father, thereby ending the transitory Cosmic Night of His Being. This inaugurated the genesis of a new cosmos from within the earth which then works outwardly and reverses the primordial condition of creation that worked from without. The emergence from His pralaya was the beginning stage of His Resurrection to which He again manifested His Being within the realm of the dead. This emergence from within is reflected in the human Being as well such that the Christ Impulse now works from within the human soul and creates a new human Being who, along with the Christ, creates a new cosmos. If we accept the account from the Gospel of Nicodemus which chronicles John the Baptist accompanying Christ's descent into the sub-realms coupled with the premise that he appeared as the young man sitting in the tomb, it then becomes possible to assert that John the Baptist, the Adam soul, was the first human soul to interact with the Risen Christ. As the young man in the tomb, it was John the Baptist who told the women that the Christ had Risen.(Mark16:5-7). As John the Baptist was the first human to recognize and interact with the Christ embodied in a physical/mineral body at the time of the Jordan Baptism, he was also the first human to recognize the Risen Christ, as well, on Easter morning.

      Later, during Easter morning, when the Risen Christ appeared to Mary Magdalene He admonished her, saying, ". . . Do not cling to me [Greek: me mou haptou], for I have not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say to them, `I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17). If the Greek words - me mou haptou - are properly translated as a prohibitive present imperative we can then surmise that Christ is entreating Mary Magdalene to discontinue from physically grasping and clinging to Him. In the earliest hours of Easter morning Christ had yet to become fully integrated within the resurrected phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth. This moment stood as a Second Baptism of the Christ Being in that these processes consisted of integrating His Ego within the newly redeemed phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth while simultaneously integrating His resurrected microcosmic phantom body with that of the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. Christ had not yet ascended to the Father because His phantom body and the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos had not yet fully integrated with one another at that hour. These processes were not completed until after sunset of that day. Also, when Christ said that He had not yet ascended to the Father he was referring to two conditions which succeeded His post-Crucifixion pralaya state of Being. One condition was internal while the other condition was external. The internal expression of the term, Father, to which the Christ refers is the burgeoning attainment of the microcosmic Atma aspect of the former phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth which Christ had occupied since the time of the Baptism in the Jordan. On Easter morning, the phantom body that Christ had occupied during His ministry was still in the post-Resurrection process of being fully configured into its purest Atma condition. In Lecture XI of Steiner's 1910 Matthew cycle, he addresses the various terms of an Initiate's condition of Being. Steiner conveyed the following: "And one with whom Atma, or Spirit-Man, had made contact was called, `Father' in the ancient Mysteries." In regard to the external condition, Christ also speaks of the Father as the macrocosmic mineral element of our own particular cosmos which exists within its own macrocosmic phantom body. The Father, in this instance, is the metaphorical term used to describe the entire cosmic space that originates from the center of our earth and extends outwardly to the limits of the twelve zodiacal constellations. The integration of the microcosmic phantom body of Christ Jesus with that of the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos was the initial phase of the Ascension. Christ's recorded Ascension, at the end of the forty days, marked His post-pralaya integration into the phantom/physical and etheric realms of this cosmos while Pentecost marked His earliest stage of integration into the cosmic astral realm of our cosmos. In summation, Christ was expressing to Mary Magdalene that His internal and external conditions of Being had not been altogether consummated in those early hours on Easter morning. He expressed to Mary Magdalene that He had not yet ascended to the Father. That is, He had yet to fully attain the Atma condition of the phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth at that hour and, thereby, His phantom body had not yet wholly integrated itself with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. These processes were not finalized until the Macrocosmic Ego aspect of the Christ had completely integrated Itself within His microcosmic phantom body, while in unison, the phantom body of Christ Jesus became One with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. When these processes had been completed by sunset a human phantom body had now become One with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. When Christ had said earlier during His ministry that He and the Father are One He was expressing that His macrocosmic aspect was One with our cosmos. Now, however, through the Resurrected Christ a wholly redeemed microcosmic human phantom body, the phantom body which had previously belonged to Jesus of Nazareth now redeemed, had become One with our cosmos. A redeemed human phantom body and the Father had become One as well.

      The entirety of John 20:17 in which Christ speaks to Mary Magdalene is not a reference to the Father Being. Rather, it is a direct reference to cosmic space. Moreover, this passage also alludes to the macrocosmic Ego principle of the Christ and to the Ego principle of the human Being. As Steiner had so often pointed out, the term `Father' had several meanings; one of which meant cosmic space. It is also a term that refers to the Ego of the Christ and to the Ego of the human Being as well. In this particular instance, Christ was referring to the fact that not only was He integrating His Macrocosmic Being/Ego into the resurrected microcosmic phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth but that He was also integrating His newly initiated Macrocosmic Ego into the macrocosmic phantom body of our own cosmos; the `physical' aspect of our cosmos. After His pralaya, Christ reintegrated His Macrocosmic Ego into this cosmos which is the realm of the Father element of matter. In addition, the macrocosmic Ego Impulse of the Christ is also a principle that now works into the Ego of each human Being. This explains His words, " . . . I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." On Easter morning Christ began the process of resurrecting this cosmos from the center of the earth out to the zodiacal constellations and preparing this cosmic space for its next Manvantara: the Jupiter Manvantara; the New Jerusalem.

      At the tomb, the phantom/physical body of the Christ had only initially begun the process of becoming one with the macrocosmic phantom/physical body of the earth and our cosmos while He spoke these words to Mary Magdalene. This process is referred to as the Ascension of Christ. As Emil Bock illustrates in his book, "The Three Years," that Mary Magdalene's vision of Christ at sunrise, after His Resurrection, is the initial stage of Christ's Ascension. It seems reasonable to presume that later in the evening of that very day, after sunset, when Christ appeared before His disciples and told them to see and to touch His wounds (Luke 24: 38-40), this marked the completion of the full configuration of the resurrected Phantom body of Christ. The Ascension then reaches its culmination after forty days to which the, "two men . . . in white garments," (Acts 1: 10) appear before the eleven remaining Apostles. These `two men' are the Christ-imbued, replicated etheric and astral bodies of Jesus of Nazareth.
    • dottie zold
      It occurs to me that many think this is what occurred:   http://www.russianartgallery.org/famous/ivanov_magdalene.htm   It was not an outer appearance in
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 1, 2010
        It occurs to me that many think this is what occurred:
         
         


        It was not an outer appearance in this sense. Again, she had to 'turn back around' to 'recognize the Rabbi'. From whence was she seeing Him?
         
        All good things,
        Dottie
         
         
        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



        --- On Thu, 4/1/10, radistasi <rdistasi@...> wrote:

        From: radistasi <rdistasi@...>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Good Friday thru Easter
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 8:53 PM


        When Christ spoke the words - It Is Finished - while upon the Cross, what He spoke of cosmically was that the Fall of humanity into matter, into Death, and all of the forces that brought humanity deeply into this condition were now to be reversed. Christ died upon the Cross of 'matter' and has united His Being with the earth itself. A new Impulse of spiritual Life was brought into the sphere of the earth that would now bring a reversal of direction to the course of human and earthly evolution. The two earthquakes that took place, one immediately after the death of Christ on the Cross and the other at the time of the Resurrection acted as signs from the earth itself. (Matthew 27: 51 & 28: 2). The original luciferic forces that precipitated the earth's downward course and had permeated the earth for ages were brought to a halt by Christ at the Crucifixion on Golgotha. When the primordial luciferic forces of the Fall came to a sudden cessation, this literally shook the physical earth at its foundations as the Christ began to enter into the sub-realms. The return of Christ from the sub-realms at the moment of the Resurrection also shook the earth at its foundations as this Event initiated the reversal of the downward course of the Fall. It was at this time that the new forces of the Resurrection and the eventual Ascension of the earth and humanity to the spiritual spheres were begun by Christ on Easter Sunday morning . As a result, a reversal in the direction of human and earthly evolution was now ushered in. Steiner, therefore, refers to the Mystery of Golgotha as the Turning Point in Time.

        Christ's words - It Is Finished - marks this turning point. The Fall had reached its nadir and the Ascension was about to begin. When one reflects on these three words from Christ on Calvary and carefully considers the vast implications of their meaning, it is possible to say that these three words may have been the most powerful words ever spoken in all of human and earthly evolution. With these three words the new course of human and earthly evolution now begins to expand outwardly from within the Christ-imbued inner Selves of humanity and from the core center of the earth. Earlier it had been indicated that the Christ had become a Macrocosmic Being at the beginning of the Earth Manvantara. He was given regency over our solar system and the zodiacal constellations from the Father Being who had been its Regent from the time of the Saturn Period. From the lecture cycle, "Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy," Steiner comments: "Now, these earthly things we see around us with our senses, the things that have come about on earth, neither originate from these nature spirits nor from the Father God Who actually expressed His creative Being only in the metamorphoses preceding the earth. What we see as earth does not originate from the Father God nor from the nature spirits. It comes from the Son, from the Logos, whom the Father God let spring forth from Himself so that the earth might be created by the Logos. And the Gospel of St. John, a mighty, significant monument was written in order to indicate: No, it is not as the people of old believed; the earth was not created by the Father God. The Father God made the Son come forth from Him; and the Son is the creator of the earth." [Lecture XVI; Dornach, June 3, 1921].

        At the beginning of the Earth Manvantara Christ emerged from the Father Being as a Macrocosmic Being and was given regency over this solar system and the zodiacal constellations. However, this conveyance of regency was not fully completed until Christ once again returned to within the Being of the Father after the death on the Cross and then re-emerged from the Father. This `Second' emergence of the Christ Being from the Father Being during the Earth Manvantara was consummated from within the core center of the earth. This was the Resurrection of Christ. The post-Crucifixion Initiation of the Christ Being within the Being of the Father gave Christ the capacity to transubstantiate the Father Principle which still resides within the element of matter and which comprises this solar system. It is the Father Principle within matter which the Christ will invert and raise to the next condition of form: the astral condition. The stage at which the Christ presented Himself to Mary Magdalene on Easter morning marked the initial point of His personal ascension process as well as the ascension process of our cosmos. Christ intimated these principles in His priestly prayer to the Father immediately prior to His arrest: "Father, the hour has come! Glorify thy Son, that thy Son may Glorify thee . . . ," (John 17: 1). Also, "And now do thou, Father, glorify me with thyself, with the glory that I had with thee before the world existed." (John 17: 5). In the final moments of the Crucifixion, when Christ said the following words, "Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke: 23: 46), Christ acknowledges His imminent union with the Father Being. These words were then followed by His death; His descent into the sub-realms; His macrocosmic Initiation within the Being of the Father; His emergence from the Father Being from within the core of the earth; and, the eventual coalescence of His Being with the realm of the Father element of the earth and with the cosmic space of our cosmos that extends outwardly from the core of the earth to the ends of our solar system and beyond which would include the zodiacal constellations.

        The new `Son' creation begins `within' the soul and spirit of the human Being and thereby reverses the pre-Crucifixion creation of our cosmos. The human Self now becomes the foundation stone for a new cosmos. When Christ said to the Pharisees, "For behold, the kingdom of God is within you," (Luke 17: 21) He was addressing these words to the old Order of understanding. He specifically spoke these words to the Pharisees because their understanding was based on that which was to be gained only from the past prior to the Advent of the Christ on earth. The past wisdom was now to give way to the new wisdom. Contained in these words spoken to the Pharisees is the admonition to understand that the kingdom of God, the Christ-imbued soul and spirit of the human Being, is now the center of the new creation. In this Gospel verse, we can see the boundless cosmic evolutionary implications that are often contained in the words of Christ. In a lecture given December 27, 1918 Steiner stated the following: "At the time that the Mystery of Golgotha took place, the human Being was hollowed out; he became hollow. And it is important that we learn to recognize the Mystery of Golgotha as an Impulse that has a reciprocal relation to this hollowed-out condition of man. If we speak truly, we must make it clear that the hollow space in man, which indeed could be found still earlier - let us say, in the Egypto-Chaldean royal Mysteries - had to be filled up in some way. In that ancient time it had been partly filled by the real Ego; but this now comes to a stop at birth - or at least, in early childhood; there is some evidence of its presence in the first years of childhood. This hollow space has been filled by the Christ Impulse."

        The above statement from Steiner presents an intriguing question in regard to the following when he said: "And it is important that we learn to recognize the Mystery of Golgotha as an Impulse that has a reciprocal relation to this hollowed-out condition of man." This reciprocal relation could possibly be expressed by the following in that this cosmos was also hollowed-out when Christ, the Macrocosmic Ego and Higher Self of this cosmos, experienced Death on the Cross. After Christ's death on the Cross our planetary system and the zodiacal constellations reflected the condition of the human soul such that they too were hollowed-out and devoid of their Macrocosmic Ego. The Christ, during His Initiation by the Father, passed through a pralaya; a Cosmic Night of His Being. This cosmos, for whatever brief time, no longer had its Macrocosmic Ego within it. From this, we can draw a parallel to the hollowed-out soul condition of humanity, as stated by Steiner, to that of the hollowed-out condition of our cosmos. This Macrocosmic Initiation of the Christ Being by the Father, as stated previously, is a complete reversal to the pattern of a human Initiate's experience. While on the Cross, Christ's utterance of the words, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me," inaugurates the beginning of the Macrocosmic Initiation of the Christ. This is the reversal to the human Initiate's, "My God, my God, you have glorified me," which is expressed at the conclusion of the Initiation process. Christ then descended into lower realms whereas the human Initiate ascends into higher realms. The human Initiate subsequently reaches an illumination of consciousness whereas the Christ is momentarily extinguished from our cosmos while in His pralaya condition within the Being of the Father. This is the key point. The entirety of His descent to earth, His Baptism, His Crucifixion and Death on the Cross culminated in the Death of His Being within this cosmos. The protracted death process which actually began when He first took leave of the highest spheres consummated in the momentary hollowing-out of His Macrocosmic Ego from this cosmos which was preceded by His words, ". . . Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit." (Luke 23:46). At the completion of His descent into the sub-realms, the Christ Being was drawn into the Being of the Father where He resided, momentarily, in a pralaya or Cosmic Night condition. Thereby, this cosmos was momentarily without its Macrocosmic Ego; the Christ. Throughout Christ's time on earth, while incrementally incarnating deeper within the body of Jesus of Nazareth, He was increasingly losing his conscious connection with the spiritual world. Thereby, it becomes possible to assert that Christ completed His Death process to the fullest only when He ultimately passed into a momentary subjugation of His macrocosmic consciousness. That is, He lost all consciousness, all spiritual illumination during His pralaya; the Cosmic Night of His Being. This was the ultimate state of Christ's death and its eventual culmination into the Being of the Father. Again, this would complete the reversed pattern of His Initiation to that of the human Initiate's illumination. It also completed the actuation of fulfilling His experience of losing consciousness as humans would, in their sojourns after death, eventually lose consciousness. The Christ Being, a Being of the Highest Order, had now experienced the parallel to the human earthly experience; the momentary vanquishing of awakened consciousness.

        Christ's momentary vanquishing of consciousness is intimated by Steiner from the following: "Human beings here in the physical world are born and they die; the characteristic of the divine, spiritual beings who belong to the higher hierarchies is that they are not born, neither do they die, but only undergo a transformation. Christ, Who until the time of the Mystery of Golgotha lived with the other divine, spiritual beings, resolved to know death, to descend to Earth, to become man, and within the nature of man to pass through death, thereafter to return to consciousness through the Resurrection. In the divine-spiritual world it was an event of the deepest significance that a God should experience death." [Dornach; March 24, 1922; "The Three Stages of Sleep"; GA:211; source: www.elib.com] 
        During the course of the progression of the Manvantaras a Cosmic Night precedes each new Manvantara. At the beginning of the Earth Manvantara the Christ Being stood as the First Cause. Christ came from beyond the constellations and descended to Earth. This course was now reversed. After His Cosmic Death and pralaya, Christ emerged from the Father from within the center of the earth. He reawakened and resurrected from His own post-Crucifixion pralaya from within the Father, thereby ending the transitory Cosmic Night of His Being. This inaugurated the genesis of a new cosmos from within the earth which then works outwardly and reverses the primordial condition of creation that worked from without. The emergence from His pralaya was the beginning stage of His Resurrection to which He again manifested His Being within the realm of the dead. This emergence from within is reflected in the human Being as well such that the Christ Impulse now works from within the human soul and creates a new human Being who, along with the Christ, creates a new cosmos. If we accept the account from the Gospel of Nicodemus which chronicles John the Baptist accompanying Christ's descent into the sub-realms coupled with the premise that he appeared as the young man sitting in the tomb, it then becomes possible to assert that John the Baptist, the Adam soul, was the first human soul to interact with the Risen Christ. As the young man in the tomb, it was John the Baptist who told the women that the Christ had Risen.(Mark16:5-7). As John the Baptist was the first human to recognize and interact with the Christ embodied in a physical/mineral body at the time of the Jordan Baptism, he was also the first human to recognize the Risen Christ, as well, on Easter morning.

        Later, during Easter morning, when the Risen Christ appeared to Mary Magdalene He admonished her, saying, ". . . Do not cling to me [Greek: me mou haptou], for I have not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say to them, `I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17). If the Greek words - me mou haptou - are properly translated as a prohibitive present imperative we can then surmise that Christ is entreating Mary Magdalene to discontinue from physically grasping and clinging to Him. In the earliest hours of Easter morning Christ had yet to become fully integrated within the resurrected phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth. This moment stood as a Second Baptism of the Christ Being in that these processes consisted of integrating His Ego within the newly redeemed phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth while simultaneously integrating His resurrected microcosmic phantom body with that of the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. Christ had not yet ascended to the Father because His phantom body and the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos had not yet fully integrated with one another at that hour. These processes were not completed until after sunset of that day. Also, when Christ said that He had not yet ascended to the Father he was referring to two conditions which succeeded His post-Crucifixion pralaya state of Being. One condition was internal while the other condition was external. The internal expression of the term, Father, to which the Christ refers is the burgeoning attainment of the microcosmic Atma aspect of the former phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth which Christ had occupied since the time of the Baptism in the Jordan. On Easter morning, the phantom body that Christ had occupied during His ministry was still in the post-Resurrection process of being fully configured into its purest Atma condition. In Lecture XI of Steiner's 1910 Matthew cycle, he addresses the various terms of an Initiate's condition of Being. Steiner conveyed the following: "And one with whom Atma, or Spirit-Man, had made contact was called, `Father' in the ancient Mysteries." In regard to the external condition, Christ also speaks of the Father as the macrocosmic mineral element of our own particular cosmos which exists within its own macrocosmic phantom body. The Father, in this instance, is the metaphorical term used to describe the entire cosmic space that originates from the center of our earth and extends outwardly to the limits of the twelve zodiacal constellations. The integration of the microcosmic phantom body of Christ Jesus with that of the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos was the initial phase of the Ascension. Christ's recorded Ascension, at the end of the forty days, marked His post-pralaya integration into the phantom/physical and etheric realms of this cosmos while Pentecost marked His earliest stage of integration into the cosmic astral realm of our cosmos. In summation, Christ was expressing to Mary Magdalene that His internal and external conditions of Being had not been altogether consummated in those early hours on Easter morning. He expressed to Mary Magdalene that He had not yet ascended to the Father. That is, He had yet to fully attain the Atma condition of the phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth at that hour and, thereby, His phantom body had not yet wholly integrated itself with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. These processes were not finalized until the Macrocosmic Ego aspect of the Christ had completely integrated Itself within His microcosmic phantom body, while in unison, the phantom body of Christ Jesus became One with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. When these processes had been completed by sunset a human phantom body had now become One with the macrocosmic phantom body of our cosmos. When Christ had said earlier during His ministry that He and the Father are One He was expressing that His macrocosmic aspect was One with our cosmos. Now, however, through the Resurrected Christ a wholly redeemed microcosmic human phantom body, the phantom body which had previously belonged to Jesus of Nazareth now redeemed, had become One with our cosmos. A redeemed human phantom body and the Father had become One as well.

        The entirety of John 20:17 in which Christ speaks to Mary Magdalene is not a reference to the Father Being. Rather, it is a direct reference to cosmic space. Moreover, this passage also alludes to the macrocosmic Ego principle of the Christ and to the Ego principle of the human Being. As Steiner had so often pointed out, the term `Father' had several meanings; one of which meant cosmic space. It is also a term that refers to the Ego of the Christ and to the Ego of the human Being as well. In this particular instance, Christ was referring to the fact that not only was He integrating His Macrocosmic Being/Ego into the resurrected microcosmic phantom body of Jesus of Nazareth but that He was also integrating His newly initiated Macrocosmic Ego into the macrocosmic phantom body of our own cosmos; the `physical' aspect of our cosmos. After His pralaya, Christ reintegrated His Macrocosmic Ego into this cosmos which is the realm of the Father element of matter. In addition, the macrocosmic Ego Impulse of the Christ is also a principle that now works into the Ego of each human Being. This explains His words, " . . . I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." On Easter morning Christ began the process of resurrecting this cosmos from the center of the earth out to the zodiacal constellations and preparing this cosmic space for its next Manvantara: the Jupiter Manvantara; the New Jerusalem.

        At the tomb, the phantom/physical body of the Christ had only initially begun the process of becoming one with the macrocosmic phantom/physical body of the earth and our cosmos while He spoke these words to Mary Magdalene. This process is referred to as the Ascension of Christ. As Emil Bock illustrates in his book, "The Three Years," that Mary Magdalene's vision of Christ at sunrise, after His Resurrection, is the initial stage of Christ's Ascension. It seems reasonable to presume that later in the evening of that very day, after sunset, when Christ appeared before His disciples and told them to see and to touch His wounds (Luke 24: 38-40), this marked the completion of the full configuration of the resurrected Phantom body of Christ. The Ascension then reaches its culmination after forty days to which the, "two men . . . in white garments," (Acts 1: 10) appear before the eleven remaining Apostles. These `two men' are the Christ-imbued, replicated etheric and astral bodies of Jesus of Nazareth.



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      • dottie zold
        Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would admonish the Magdalene? Not on your life.     This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 1, 2010
          Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
           
          Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
           
          This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
           
          I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie

          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner


        • dottie zold
          It occurs to me that where we can find the Magdalene mentioned in various gospels and pointed towards sister of Martha one of whom seven demons went out ,
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 1, 2010
            It occurs to me that where we can find the Magdalene mentioned in various gospels and pointed towards 'sister of Martha' 'one of whom seven demons went out', one whom the Lord loved more than others, one who annointed him etc. we can most likely also find the ascendence of Lazarus as well but as different personas in the gospels...i am thinking of the one who was blind but mostly the man who was told to take up his bed and walk...and so he did....
             
            this woman with the blood issue for twelve years seems to represent the sisters, the 'twins' of the patriarchs, and their healings specifically.
             
            I am astounded by the works found in Hebrews. Astounded.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie

            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



            --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

            From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



            Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
             
            Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
             
            This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
             
            I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie

            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





          • dottie zold
            Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:   Mathew 28:   1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 1, 2010
              Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
               
              " Mathew 28:
               
              1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
               
              John: 20:17


              Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

              Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
               
              I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
               
              So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
              And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
               
              All good things,
              Dottie
              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



              --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
              Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



              Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
               
              Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
               
              This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
               
              I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
               
              All good things,
              Dottie

              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





            • Kim Graae Munch
              What do you mean is the right understanding? Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. I see Magdalene as the
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                Message
                What do you mean is the right understanding?
                Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                Kim
                Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                -----Original Message-----
                From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                 

                Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                 
                " Mathew 28:
                 
                1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                 
                John: 20:17


                Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                 
                I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                 
                So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                 
                All good things,
                Dottie
                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                 
                Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                 
                This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                 
                I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                 
                All good things,
                Dottie

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





              • dottie zold
                My friend, it s not that I am saying I am right rather I am saying something is not understood. I too have not understanding among many things, however I am
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                  My friend, it's not that I am saying I am right rather I am saying something is not understood. I too have not understanding among many things, however I am aware that there is a further mystery not spoken of by Steiner regarding the Magdalene as well as the blood mysteries in relations to women. And so too did he say this that a woman would open these mysteries specifically. It is not I as I can not put two sentences together to save my life however I can sense quite easily when we hear that he 'admonished' her from those who have some wonderful depthful works on the gospels that they must reach further and deeper versus repeating what others have said and have painted.
                   
                  I know now that you are right or wrong below and I thank you for the reference to Dina, that is interesting....I just had the thought last week to say I am Dina. And then I had the thought to say I am Rachel. It was interesting and I had to laugh at the necessity of this thought meeting me...strange.
                   
                  I like what you show below and will take a look see regarding Dina.
                   
                  Jesus admonished Peter. He admonished John and James, Magdalene did  not have to be admonished because she already was in understanding. He shows this throughout His ministry with the women washing His feet and annointing His head and whom it was in the center of the twelve at Pentacaust:
                   
                  El-greco-pentecost
                   
                  Dottie: Now count the people within that painting. And notice to the left and the right who stands at her side. Now look who stands directly in front of her. Then notice what is not seen but in a reflection, an overshadowing in whatever the heck that brown thing is above them:) sorry but I just can't understand that but I can see the faces within it.
                   
                  Good good Friday to all, d

                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                  --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                  From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                  Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                  What do you mean is the right understanding?
                  Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                  I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                  Kim
                  Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                  Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                   
                  Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                   
                  " Mathew 28:
                   
                  1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                   
                  John: 20:17


                  Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                  Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                   
                  I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                   
                  So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                  And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                   
                  All good things,
                  Dottie
                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                  --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                  Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                   
                  Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                   
                  This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                   
                  I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                   
                  All good things,
                  Dottie

                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner








                • dottie zold
                  Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :) Hence only by means of love can we give real help for
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                    Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                    --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                    From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                    What do you mean is the right understanding?
                    Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                    I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                    Kim
                    Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                    Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                     
                    Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                     
                    " Mathew 28:
                     
                    1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                     
                    John: 20:17


                    Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                    Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                     
                    I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                     
                    So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                    And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                     
                    All good things,
                    Dottie
                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                    --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                    Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                    Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                     
                    Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                     
                    This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                     
                    I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                     
                    All good things,
                    Dottie

                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner








                  • fs13997
                    Dottie, you mention that John was admonished. Could you please provide a reference? If so, is John-Lazarus that is admonished? Is that in John s Gospel? If
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                      Dottie, you mention that John was admonished. Could you please provide a reference? If so, is John-Lazarus that is admonished? Is that in John's Gospel? If not, reference to a John may not be John lazarus, though (like the reference the James and the other John).


                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > My friend, it's not that I am saying I am right rather I am saying something is not understood. I too have not understanding among many things, however I am aware that there is a further mystery not spoken of by Steiner regarding the Magdalene as well as the blood mysteries in relations to women. And so too did he say this that a woman would open these mysteries specifically. It is not I as I can not put two sentences together to save my life however I can sense quite easily when we hear that he 'admonished' her from those who have some wonderful depthful works on the gospels that they must reach further and deeper versus repeating what others have said and have painted.
                      >  
                      > I know now that you are right or wrong below and I thank you for the reference to Dina, that is interesting....I just had the thought last week to say I am Dina. And then I had the thought to say I am Rachel. It was interesting and I had to laugh at the necessity of this thought meeting me...strange.
                      >  
                      > I like what you show below and will take a look see regarding Dina.
                      >  
                      > Jesus admonished Peter. He admonished John and James, Magdalene did  not have to be admonished because she already was in understanding. He shows this throughout His ministry with the women washing His feet and annointing His head and whom it was in the center of the twelve at Pentacaust:
                      >  
                      >
                      >  
                      > Dottie: Now count the people within that painting. And notice to the left and the right who stands at her side. Now look who stands directly in front of her. Then notice what is not seen but in a reflection, an overshadowing in whatever the heck that brown thing is above them:) sorry but I just can't understand that but I can see the faces within it.
                      >  
                      > Good good Friday to all, d
                      >
                      >
                      > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                      > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > What do you mean is the right understanding?
                      >
                      > Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                      > I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                      > Kim
                      >    
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                      > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                      >  
                      > " Mathew 28:
                      >  
                      > 1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold
                      > of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                      >  
                      > John: 20:17
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Jhn 20:17
                      >  
                      > Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.
                      >
                      > Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                      >  
                      > I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                      >  
                      > So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                      > And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                      >  
                      > All good things,
                      > Dottie
                      >
                      > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                      > Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                      > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                      >  
                      >
                      >  
                      > This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                      >  
                      > I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                      >  
                      > All good things,
                      > Dottie
                      >
                      >
                      > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                      >
                    • Kim Graae Munch
                      I was just interested to hear what you meant was crucial about that moment since you wrote what you did, if you had seen something I have overlooked. Kim ...
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                        Message
                        I was just interested to hear what you meant was crucial about that moment since you wrote what you did, if you had seen something I have overlooked.
                        Kim
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 5:50 PM
                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                         

                        My friend, it's not that I am saying I am right rather I am saying something is not understood. I too have not understanding among many things, however I am aware that there is a further mystery not spoken of by Steiner regarding the Magdalene as well as the blood mysteries in relations to women. And so too did he say this that a woman would open these mysteries specifically. It is not I as I can not put two sentences together to save my life however I can sense quite easily when we hear that he 'admonished' her from those who have some wonderful depthful works on the gospels that they must reach further and deeper versus repeating what others have said and have painted.
                         
                        I know now that you are right or wrong below and I thank you for the reference to Dina, that is interesting. ...I just had the thought last week to say I am Dina. And then I had the thought to say I am Rachel. It was interesting and I had to laugh at the necessity of this thought meeting me...strange.
                         
                        I like what you show below and will take a look see regarding Dina.
                         
                        Jesus admonished Peter. He admonished John and James, Magdalene did  not have to be admonished because she already was in understanding. He shows this throughout His ministry with the women washing His feet and annointing His head and whom it was in the center of the twelve at Pentacaust:
                         
                        El-greco-pentecost
                         
                        Dottie: Now count the people within that painting. And notice to the left and the right who stands at her side. Now look who stands directly in front of her. Then notice what is not seen but in a reflection, an overshadowing in whatever the heck that brown thing is above them:) sorry but I just can't understand that but I can see the faces within it.
                         
                        Good good Friday to all, d

                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                        --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                        What do you mean is the right understanding?
                        Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                        I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                        Kim
                        Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                         
                        Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                         
                        " Mathew 28:
                         
                        1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                         
                        John: 20:17


                        Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                        Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                         
                        I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                         
                        So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                        And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                         
                        All good things,
                        Dottie
                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                        --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                        Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                         
                        Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                         
                        This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                         
                        I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                         
                        All good things,
                        Dottie

                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner








                      • Kim Graae Munch
                        I have no meaning about the two Mary s of Jesus , except maybe that they are on different spiritual level s of the same being. I don t connect them with
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                          Message
                          I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                          Kim
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                          Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                           

                          Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                          --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                          From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                          Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                          To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                          What do you mean is the right understanding?
                          Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                          I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                          Kim
                          Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                          Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                          To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                           
                          Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                           
                          " Mathew 28:
                           
                          1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                           
                          John: 20:17


                          Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                          Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                           
                          I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                           
                          So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                          And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                           
                          All good things,
                          Dottie
                          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                          --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                          From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                          Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                          To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                          Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                           
                          Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                           
                          This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                           
                          I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                           
                          All good things,
                          Dottie

                          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner








                        • dottie zold
                          Not talking about Lazarus/John.   d Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way. Rudolf Steiner ... From:
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                            Not talking about Lazarus/John.
                             
                            d

                            "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                            --- On Fri, 4/2/10, fs13997 <fs13997@...> wrote:

                            From: fs13997 <fs13997@...>
                            Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 12:40 PM

                            Dottie, you mention that John was admonished. Could you please provide a reference? If so, is John-Lazarus that is admonished? Is that in John's Gospel? If not, reference to a John may not be John lazarus, though (like the reference the James and the other John).


                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My friend, it's not that I am saying I am right rather I am saying something is not understood. I too have not understanding among many things, however I am aware that there is a further mystery not spoken of by Steiner regarding the Magdalene as well as the blood mysteries in relations to women. And so too did he say this that a woman would open these mysteries specifically. It is not I as I can not put two sentences together to save my life however I can sense quite easily when we hear that he 'admonished' her from those who have some wonderful depthful works on the gospels that they must reach further and deeper versus repeating what others have said and have painted.
                            >  
                            > I know now that you are right or wrong below and I thank you for the reference to Dina, that is interesting....I just had the thought last week to say I am Dina. And then I had the thought to say I am Rachel. It was interesting and I had to laugh at the necessity of this thought meeting me...strange.
                            >  
                            > I like what you show below and will take a look see regarding Dina.
                            >  
                            > Jesus admonished Peter. He admonished John and James, Magdalene did  not have to be admonished because she already was in understanding. He shows this throughout His ministry with the women washing His feet and annointing His head and whom it was in the center of the twelve at Pentacaust:
                            >  
                            >
                            >  
                            > Dottie: Now count the people within that painting. And notice to the left and the right who stands at her side. Now look who stands directly in front of her. Then notice what is not seen but in a reflection, an overshadowing in whatever the heck that brown thing is above them:) sorry but I just can't understand that but I can see the faces within it.
                            >  
                            > Good good Friday to all, d
                            >
                            >
                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > What do you mean is the right understanding?
                            >
                            > Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                            > I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                            > Kim
                            >    
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                            > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                            >  
                            > " Mathew 28:
                            >  
                            > 1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold
                            >  of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                            >  
                            > John: 20:17
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Jhn 20:17
                            >  
                            > Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.
                            >
                            > Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                            >  
                            > I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                            >  
                            > So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                            > And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                            >  
                            > All good things,
                            > Dottie
                            >
                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                            > Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                            >  
                            >
                            >  
                            > This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                            >  
                            > I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                            >  
                            > All good things,
                            > Dottie
                            >
                            >
                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                            >




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                          • dottie zold
                            Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 2, 2010
                              Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                               
                              the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove, this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../......................................oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d

                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                              From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                              Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM



                              I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                              Kim
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                              Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                               
                              Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                              From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                              Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                              To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                              What do you mean is the right understanding?
                              Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                              I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                              Kim
                              Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                              Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                              To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                               
                              Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                               
                              " Mathew 28:
                               
                              1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                               
                              John: 20:17


                              Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                              Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                               
                              I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                               
                              So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                              And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                               
                              All good things,
                              Dottie
                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                              --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                              Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                              To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                              Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                               
                              Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                               
                              This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                               
                              I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                               
                              All good things,
                              Dottie

                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner











                            • Kim Graae Munch
                              Interesting. Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego seed
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                Interesting.
                                Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego seed in the astral.
                                What you touch at is what does it really mean that Christ went down into the underworld?
                                /Kim

                                --- Den fre 2/4/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                                Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>

                                 

                                Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                                 
                                the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove, this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../..... ......... ......... ......... ......oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d

                                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM



                                I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                                Kim
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                 
                                Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                                What do you mean is the right understanding?
                                Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                                I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                                Kim
                                Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                 
                                Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                                 
                                " Mathew 28:
                                 
                                1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                                 
                                John: 20:17


                                Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                                Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                                 
                                I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                                 
                                So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                                And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                                 
                                All good things,
                                Dottie
                                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                                Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                                Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                                 
                                Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                                 
                                This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                                 
                                I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                                 
                                All good things,
                                Dottie

                                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner












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                              • dottie zold
                                Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don t know how to express this but when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                  Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don't know how to express this but when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in the materialistic world would not Christ have to will His way down to the earth as well, to the I of the earth as well, the center, the kore so to speak.
                                   
                                  Now if the Christ worked down straight into the boney structure of man and it seems to me that moving further it took these three years to get to the center of the I of the earth...His forty days was coming back up to the earthly world and penetrating it with whath He transformed at the center of the earth. This is how Dante could speak of Him as coming forth at one point....now, it seems to me that it is Jesus that they encounter during the forty days and maybe the Christ at Pentacaust united with Jesus....something had to take place different for the forty days and all to receive the holy fire from above...somehow something was now united from above and below truly. I don't know...something like this. And the whole measure of man was working through the Magdalene and this is why she is there at the beginning with John the Baptist and helped in the baptism of the marriage so to speak of Jesus and Christ. I am thinking that maybe when we speak of the  marriage at cana it has to involve the Magdalene as well, not just the mother as is shared....and I have to imagine the reason Steiner did not speak outwardly on this although he did somesort in The Fifth Gospel, is because it had to do with the underword in a way that he could not just speak lightly on but would have had to reintroduce man to it specifically.
                                  If we have to consider what Steiner did with Anthroposophia, allowing her to be heard in the Christmas Conference, we can imagine that he would have, if not interrupted by his poisoning hence illness, began to speak further on this Being and the manner in which she has already too reached down into hell and is now able having been freed to show man to himself.
                                   
                                  On Elisha. I know we have spoken on this before and have found agreement way early in our friendship and then a not so agreement lately on this....and  it occurs to me to share that I found myself in Kings yesterday and I found myself with Elisha.
                                   
                                  What I found myself contemplating was this:
                                   
                                  Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                  Abel = Elisha = Lazarus =
                                  Cain = Solomon = Mathew Jesus
                                   
                                  Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in the Apostles of Christ Jesus.

                                  Now the Magdalene it seems might be able to be found again as the one who is the messenger....in Kings...but I am not sure but what I am sure of is that she was needed for each of the 'miracles' or rather transformations that took place since the Christ came.
                                   
                                  Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                   
                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                  --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                  From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:15 AM



                                  Interesting.
                                  Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego seed in the astral.
                                  What you touch at is what does it really mean that Christ went down into the underworld?
                                  /Kim

                                  --- Den fre 2/4/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                                  Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>

                                   
                                  Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                                   
                                  the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove, this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../..... ......... ......... ......... ......oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d

                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                  --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                  From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                  Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM



                                  I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                                  Kim
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                  Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                   
                                  Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                  --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                  From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                  Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                                  What do you mean is the right understanding?
                                  Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                                  I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                                  Kim
                                  Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                  Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                   
                                  Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                                   
                                  " Mathew 28:
                                   
                                  1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                                   
                                  John: 20:17


                                  Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                                  Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                                   
                                  I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                                   
                                  So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                                  And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                                   
                                  All good things,
                                  Dottie
                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                  --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                                  Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                  To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                                  Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                                   
                                  Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                                   
                                  This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                                   
                                  I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                                   
                                  All good things,
                                  Dottie

                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner












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                                • dottie zold
                                  And Kim I was thinking that it Christ Jesus wasn t speaking to the outer awakeness of James and John he was speaking to the inner blood, the inner I Am, that
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                    And Kim I was thinking that it Christ Jesus wasn't speaking to the outer awakeness of James and John he was speaking to the inner blood, the inner I Am, that was unable to stay awake. And to the Magdalene he was not admonishing her outwardly he was speaking of something inwardly that she did not know regarding how the bodies can meet inwardly, not outwardly...it was nothing to do with the feet.
                                     
                                    All good things,
                                    d

                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                    --- On Sat, 4/3/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                    From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 7:55 AM



                                    Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don't know how to express this but when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in the materialistic world would not Christ have to will His way down to the earth as well, to the I of the earth as well, the center, the kore so to speak.
                                     
                                    Now if the Christ worked down straight into the boney structure of man and it seems to me that moving further it took these three years to get to the center of the I of the earth...His forty days was coming back up to the earthly world and penetrating it with whath He transformed at the center of the earth. This is how Dante could speak of Him as coming forth at one point....now, it seems to me that it is Jesus that they encounter during the forty days and maybe the Christ at Pentacaust united with Jesus....something had to take place different for the forty days and all to receive the holy fire from above...somehow something was now united from above and below truly. I don't know...something like this. And the whole measure of man was working through the Magdalene and this is why she is there at the beginning with John the Baptist and helped in the baptism of the marriage so to speak of Jesus and Christ. I am thinking that maybe when we speak of the  marriage at cana it has to involve the Magdalene as well, not just the mother as is shared....and I have to imagine the reason Steiner did not speak outwardly on this although he did somesort in The Fifth Gospel, is because it had to do with the underword in a way that he could not just speak lightly on but would have had to reintroduce man to it specifically.
                                    If we have to consider what Steiner did with Anthroposophia, allowing her to be heard in the Christmas Conference, we can imagine that he would have, if not interrupted by his poisoning hence illness, began to speak further on this Being and the manner in which she has already too reached down into hell and is now able having been freed to show man to himself.
                                     
                                    On Elisha. I know we have spoken on this before and have found agreement way early in our friendship and then a not so agreement lately on this....and  it occurs to me to share that I found myself in Kings yesterday and I found myself with Elisha.
                                     
                                    What I found myself contemplating was this:
                                     
                                    Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                    Abel = Elisha = Lazarus =
                                    Cain = Solomon = Mathew Jesus
                                     
                                    Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in the Apostles of Christ Jesus.

                                    Now the Magdalene it seems might be able to be found again as the one who is the messenger....in Kings...but I am not sure but what I am sure of is that she was needed for each of the 'miracles' or rather transformations that took place since the Christ came.
                                     
                                    Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                     
                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                    --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                    From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:15 AM



                                    Interesting.
                                    Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego seed in the astral.
                                    What you touch at is what does it really mean that Christ went down into the underworld?
                                    /Kim

                                    --- Den fre 2/4/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                                    Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>

                                     
                                    Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                                     
                                    the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove, this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../..... ......... ......... ......... ......oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d

                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                    --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                    From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM



                                    I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                                    Kim
                                     
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                    Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                     
                                    Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                    --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                    From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                                    What do you mean is the right understanding?
                                    Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                                    I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                                    Kim
                                    Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                    Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                     
                                    Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                                     
                                    " Mathew 28:
                                     
                                    1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                                     
                                    John: 20:17


                                    Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                                    Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                                     
                                    I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                                     
                                    So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                                    And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                                     
                                    All good things,
                                    Dottie
                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                    --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                    From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                                    Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                    To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                                    Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                                     
                                    Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                                     
                                    This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                                     
                                    I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                                     
                                    All good things,
                                    Dottie

                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner












                                    __________________________________________________
                                    Bruger du Yahoo!?
                                    Er du træt af spam? Yahoo!Mail har den bedste spambeskyttelse, der findes
                                    http://dk.mail.yahoo.com





                                  • Kim
                                    What Christ went down to was the underworld, and following Steiner, the Gods have never been down there before. So Christ have never been down into the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                      What Christ went down to was the underworld, and following Steiner, the Gods have never been down there before. So Christ have never been down into the underworld before. Jesus Christ are two beings, Chrestos with the Astral body as the highest, and Christus with our Soul body as the lowest, and Chrestos are the one who are left to die and who goes to the underworld (Was ist «Auferstehung»? RS - Dornach/Schweiz am 27. März 1921). This being has it's lower I in the Astral body, and thats why he can say "My God, ...". This also means that he reaches a level deeper than the physical, he reaches down to the Salamanders, the Men of new Jupiter.

                                      What is then the Underworld? It's the astral world and below.

                                      Why is the physical world Maya? Because everything is managed from the underworld, by the various elementals existing i the astral world and down.

                                      About the Astral world, the underworld, GA 93a :
                                      Now there are also other beings besides minerals, plants, animals and human beings. There are beings who have their consciousness on the physical plane and their body in the astral. Such a being is, as it were, an animal in reverse. Such beings actually exist; they are the elemental beings. In order to make their nature comprehensible let us be clear about what belongs to the physical plane.

                                      Physical is: Firstly the solid earth, secondly water, thirdly air, fourthly ether (warmth ether, light ether, chemical ether, life ether). Let us keep to the four lower forms of our physical plane and separate the etheric world from them.

                                      States of consciousness can lie in all four forms of the physical plane while the body of such a being lies in the astral. We must think of the consciousness in the solid Earth, the body in the astral; or a being that has its consciousness in the water and its body in the astral; then such a being with its consciousness in the air and its body in the astral and one with its consciousness in fire and its body in the astral. Present-day man knows but little of such beings; in our time it is only through poetry that they are known. Miners (of minerals) however know such beings very well. A gnome is only visible to someone who can see on the astral plane, but miners frequently possess such an astral vision; they know that gnomes are realities. Thus, on our Earth there exist various forms of consciousness, and what the natural scientist today calls laws of nature are the thoughts of beings who think on the physical plane but have their bodies on the astral plane. When in physics we have to do with laws of nature we can say: these are the thoughts of a being who has its body on the astral plane. The forces of nature are creative beings and natural laws are their thoughts.

                                      Diagram XVI

                                      In the Middle Ages the alchemist tried to make use of these spirits. Goethe knew this very well; Faust wished to have fire air; this was to be produced by the salamanders which have their body on the astral plane. Thus we have around us beings who actually have their consciousness in fire, to whom we cause pain when fire is kindled, for by so doing we actually cause a certain alteration in the body of the being in question on the astral plane. When one kindles fire one alters this astral being. In the same way when one brings about alterations in other spheres of the elements and the forces of Nature one alters something in these astral beings. When we do this or that we are continuously peopling the astral plane. If we think these thoughts through clearly, we have the meaning of church ritual: that is, not to make use of any kind of substances on the physical plane, except such as have meaning, whereby meaningful beings arise on the astral plane. When for instance one kindles the smoke of incense one does something which has purpose; one burns a particular substance and creates beings of a particular kind. When one passes a sword through the air in four directions one creates a definite kind of being.

                                      Kim

                                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don't know how to express this but when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in the materialistic world would not Christ have to will His way down to the earth as well, to the I of the earth as well, the center, the kore so to speak.
                                      >  
                                      > Now if the Christ worked down straight into the boney structure of man and it seems to me that moving further it took these three years to get to the center of the I of the earth...His forty days was coming back up to the earthly world and penetrating it with whath He transformed at the center of the earth. This is how Dante could speak of Him as coming forth at one point....now, it seems to me that it is Jesus that they encounter during the forty days and maybe the Christ at Pentacaust united with Jesus....something had to take place different for the forty days and all to receive the holy fire from above...somehow something was now united from above and below truly. I don't know...something like this. And the whole measure of man was working through the Magdalene and this is why she is there at the beginning with John the Baptist and helped in the baptism of the marriage so to speak of Jesus and Christ. I am thinking that maybe when we speak of the 
                                      > marriage at cana it has to involve the Magdalene as well, not just the mother as is shared....and I have to imagine the reason Steiner did not speak outwardly on this although he did somesort in The Fifth Gospel, is because it had to do with the underword in a way that he could not just speak lightly on but would have had to reintroduce man to it specifically.
                                      > If we have to consider what Steiner did with Anthroposophia, allowing her to be heard in the Christmas Conference, we can imagine that he would have, if not interrupted by his poisoning hence illness, began to speak further on this Being and the manner in which she has already too reached down into hell and is now able having been freed to show man to himself.

                                    • dottie zold
                                      Kim, and then this is how we would have Elisha and Elijah and their double portion. Paramahansa has it off as well, well actually this wasn t his forte in a
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                        Kim, and then this is how we would have Elisha and Elijah and their double portion. Paramahansa has it off as well, well actually this wasn't his forte in a sense as he was mostly on the spirit within man and not their ongoing incarnations in the Judaic lineage...he was sortof like a gnostic one could say...he knew of the Christ and karma etc. but where the personalities would find themselves at that time was not what he was used to seeking....so he had to, and its sort of strange for his lineage, he had to look to the physical versus just the Christ...interesting...anyhow, Paramahnsa calls John the Baptist and Jesus as Elisha and Elijah...but I think he was looking at the Solomon Jesus and....but the Sololmon child united with the nathan soul....
                                         
                                        okay where it gets confusing and I've said this before, is where you have the Nathan mary meeting with Elizabeth and the I of John the Baptist jumping. But what of the Zarathustra child uniting with the Nathan soul....that's where I've always had a problem with who is Adam. But if we look at the Zarathustra child as the son of Adam and also the Nathan soul as the sister soul of Adam, you kinda have a step situation in a way....okay at least i am threading a part in a new way....good...so Adam (John the Baptist) and the Nathan child (sister soul) are in some ways the mother of Cain(Solomon)  and Abel (Lazarus)...okay somehow what I guess I am trying to get to is the healing of Cain...the ascent of the Cain line since Obed and the culmination at Golgotha...can not hold this in me.... d

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Sat, 4/3/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 8:11 AM



                                        And Kim I was thinking that it Christ Jesus wasn't speaking to the outer awakeness of James and John he was speaking to the inner blood, the inner I Am, that was unable to stay awake. And to the Magdalene he was not admonishing her outwardly he was speaking of something inwardly that she did not know regarding how the bodies can meet inwardly, not outwardly...it was nothing to do with the feet.
                                         
                                        All good things,
                                        d

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Sat, 4/3/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 7:55 AM



                                        Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don't know how to express this but when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in the materialistic world would not Christ have to will His way down to the earth as well, to the I of the earth as well, the center, the kore so to speak.
                                         
                                        Now if the Christ worked down straight into the boney structure of man and it seems to me that moving further it took these three years to get to the center of the I of the earth...His forty days was coming back up to the earthly world and penetrating it with whath He transformed at the center of the earth. This is how Dante could speak of Him as coming forth at one point....now, it seems to me that it is Jesus that they encounter during the forty days and maybe the Christ at Pentacaust united with Jesus....something had to take place different for the forty days and all to receive the holy fire from above...somehow something was now united from above and below truly. I don't know...something like this. And the whole measure of man was working through the Magdalene and this is why she is there at the beginning with John the Baptist and helped in the baptism of the marriage so to speak of Jesus and Christ. I am thinking that maybe when we speak of the  marriage at cana it has to involve the Magdalene as well, not just the mother as is shared....and I have to imagine the reason Steiner did not speak outwardly on this although he did somesort in The Fifth Gospel, is because it had to do with the underword in a way that he could not just speak lightly on but would have had to reintroduce man to it specifically.
                                        If we have to consider what Steiner did with Anthroposophia, allowing her to be heard in the Christmas Conference, we can imagine that he would have, if not interrupted by his poisoning hence illness, began to speak further on this Being and the manner in which she has already too reached down into hell and is now able having been freed to show man to himself.
                                         
                                        On Elisha. I know we have spoken on this before and have found agreement way early in our friendship and then a not so agreement lately on this....and  it occurs to me to share that I found myself in Kings yesterday and I found myself with Elisha.
                                         
                                        What I found myself contemplating was this:
                                         
                                        Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                        Abel = Elisha = Lazarus =
                                        Cain = Solomon = Mathew Jesus
                                         
                                        Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in the Apostles of Christ Jesus.

                                        Now the Magdalene it seems might be able to be found again as the one who is the messenger....in Kings...but I am not sure but what I am sure of is that she was needed for each of the 'miracles' or rather transformations that took place since the Christ came.
                                         
                                        Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                         
                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:15 AM



                                        Interesting.
                                        Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego seed in the astral.
                                        What you touch at is what does it really mean that Christ went down into the underworld?
                                        /Kim

                                        --- Den fre 2/4/10 skrev dottie zold <dottie_z@...>:

                                        Fra: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>

                                         
                                        Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                                         
                                        the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove, this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../..... ......... ......... ......... ......oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM



                                        I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just more aloof now.
                                        Kim
                                         
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                         
                                        Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

                                        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM



                                        What do you mean is the right understanding?
                                        Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students.
                                        I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5 through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                                        Kim
                                        Zodiac with Old Rulers   
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene

                                         
                                        Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then able to hold His feet:
                                         
                                        " Mathew 28:
                                         
                                        1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J) met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me."
                                         
                                        John: 20:17


                                        Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

                                        Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place at that time.
                                         
                                        I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner students. If one does not understand the relationship between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                                         
                                        So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should have her.
                                        And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                                         
                                        All good things,
                                        Dottie
                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                        --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                                        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM



                                        Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the Magdalene? Not on your life.
                                         
                                        Peter Paul Rubens Ecstasy of Mary Magdalene oil painting
                                         
                                        This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                                         
                                        I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                                         
                                        All good things,
                                        Dottie

                                        "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner












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                                      • Kim
                                        Yes: Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist Abel die and don t incarnate, but Seth does. Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible. One
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                          Yes: Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist

                                          Abel "die" and don't incarnate, but Seth does.

                                          Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible.

                                          One of the most interesting stories are the temple legend, where
                                          Solomon, Hiram Abiff, and Balkis are the main characters. Hiram is Cain,
                                          so Solomon is Seth.

                                          This physical temple is "Cain's" apprenticeship and in his next
                                          incarnation as Elisha he receives the mantle of Elijah as he becomes the
                                          next Temple-builder. Elijah becomes Buddha in his following incarnation.

                                          Elisha becomes Jonathan, son of Mattathias, and in a later incarnation,
                                          Lazarus/John. Judas is also incarnated as a son of Mattathias, the last
                                          time he is The Lion of Judah.

                                          Solomon/Seth is the priestly line and he incarnates as Simon Peter,
                                          where he have problems with his new role, being second to Cain/John.

                                          Lazarus/John incarnates in a later incarnation as Christian Rosencreutz.


                                          > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                          up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                          the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                          Kim: Yes.

                                          > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                          Boehme. I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                          you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                          refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                          Kim: I think Steiner have said that Boehme was the highest esoteric of
                                          all, which is Christian Rosecreutz. If you read about the Christian
                                          Rosencreutz incarnation you will see that he had the Lower I of Christ
                                          as Lower I, the Chrestos who hang on the Cross!

                                          I think that Christian Rosencreutz and the Bodhisattva is one and the
                                          same.

                                          Yes, Paul is really a mystery.

                                          Kim
                                        • Kim
                                          I think that Steiner said that john wasn t sleeping as the others. You sleep when your astral body and etheric body separates, and the problem was that they
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                            I think that Steiner said that john wasn't sleeping as the others.

                                            You sleep when your astral body and etheric body separates, and the
                                            problem was that they couldn't meditate, connect to Manas, without the
                                            etheric and astral bodies separating.
                                            Kim
                                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                            <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > And Kim I was thinking that it Christ Jesus wasn't speaking to the
                                            outer awakeness of James and John he was speaking to the inner blood,
                                            the inner I Am, that was unable to stay awake. And to the Magdalene he
                                            was not admonishing her outwardly he was speaking of something inwardly
                                            that she did not know regarding how the bodies can meet inwardly, not
                                            outwardly...it was nothing to do with the feet.
                                            >
                                            > All good things,
                                            > d
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Sat, 4/3/10, dottie zold dottie_z@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: dottie zold dottie_z@...
                                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 7:55 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Kim, I am thinking that somehow...I don't know how to express this but
                                            when we were born into this world before Christ and we got caught up in
                                            the materialistic world would not Christ have to will His way down to
                                            the earth as well, to the I of the earth as well, the center, the kore
                                            so to speak.
                                            >
                                            > Now if the Christ worked down straight into the boney structure of man
                                            and it seems to me that moving further it took these three years to get
                                            to the center of the I of the earth...His forty days was coming back up
                                            to the earthly world and penetrating it with whath He transformed at the
                                            center of the earth. This is how Dante could speak of Him as coming
                                            forth at one point....now, it seems to me that it is Jesus that they
                                            encounter during the forty days and maybe the Christ at Pentacaust
                                            united with Jesus....something had to take place different for the forty
                                            days and all to receive the holy fire from above...somehow something was
                                            now united from above and below truly. I don't know...something like
                                            this. And the whole measure of man was working through the Magdalene and
                                            this is why she is there at the beginning with John the Baptist and
                                            helped in the baptism of the marriage so to speak of Jesus and Christ. I
                                            am thinking that maybe when we speak of the
                                            > marriage at cana it has to involve the Magdalene as well, not just
                                            the mother as is shared....and I have to imagine the reason Steiner did
                                            not speak outwardly on this although he did somesort in The Fifth
                                            Gospel, is because it had to do with the underword in a way that he
                                            could not just speak lightly on but would have had to reintroduce man to
                                            it specifically.
                                            > If we have to consider what Steiner did with Anthroposophia, allowing
                                            her to be heard in the Christmas Conference, we can imagine that he
                                            would have, if not interrupted by his poisoning hence illness, began to
                                            speak further on this Being and the manner in which she has already too
                                            reached down into hell and is now able having been freed to show man to
                                            himself.
                                            >
                                            > On Elisha. I know we have spoken on this before and have found
                                            agreement way early in our friendship and then a not so agreement lately
                                            on this....and it occurs to me to share that I found myself in Kings
                                            yesterday and I found myself with Elisha.
                                            >
                                            > What I found myself contemplating was this:
                                            >
                                            > Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                            > Abel = Elisha = Lazarus =
                                            > Cain = Solomon = Mathew Jesus
                                            >
                                            > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                            up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                            the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                            >
                                            > Now the Magdalene it seems might be able to be found again as the one
                                            who is the messenger....in Kings...but I am not sure but what I am sure
                                            of is that she was needed for each of the 'miracles' or rather
                                            transformations that took place since the Christ came.
                                            >
                                            > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                            Boehme. I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                            you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                            refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim Graae Munch kimgm@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Kim Graae Munch kimgm@...
                                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:15 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Interesting.
                                            > Steiner says that Magdalene symbolizes the astral, and as we have our
                                            ego just above the astral, the elementals just below man have their ego
                                            seed in the astral.
                                            > What you touch at is what does it really mean that Christ went down
                                            into the underworld?
                                            > /Kim
                                            >
                                            > --- Den fre 2/4/10 skrev dottie zold dottie_z@...:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Fra: dottie zold dottie_z@...
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Kim! i just got back from church and i was contemdplating the soul of
                                            the heavenly worlds and the soul...or rather the I of Christ and the I
                                            of the earthly world, meaning physical world.....
                                            >
                                            > the I of ....teh thirteenth is the ego 3+1 = 4 ego. and so this dove,
                                            this I of man went down to Jesus and through Jesus to the I of the
                                            world. I imagine...well i can't seem to hold it really but somehow the
                                            Magdalene represents the I of the earth ....../..... ......... .........
                                            ......... ......oh boy....the dove went straight down to hell, the I of
                                            the cosmic world, the ego, that which developed the ego of the heavenly
                                            worlds went down to that whicg is at the center of the earth....okay
                                            can't do it....i think it and then lose it when i try to express it....d
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Kim Graae Munch kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:17 PM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I have no meaning about the two Mary's of Jesus', except maybe that
                                            they are on different spiritual level's of the same being. I don't
                                            connect them with Magdalene directly, as I see the Mary's representing
                                            godly beings of our past, where Magdalene is connected with the feminine
                                            mystery of man which will come in not to far a future. When I say past I
                                            don't mean that they don't partake in our development, they are just
                                            more aloof now.
                                            > Kim
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop
                                            hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                            > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:47 PM
                                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Kim if you do see the Magdalene as the mother of the Maccabean boys
                                            where do you see the Mathew Mary? :)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Kim Graae Munch kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Kim Graae Munch kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
                                            > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 1:57 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > What do you mean is the right understanding?
                                            >
                                            > Dottie: I find there is no understanding of this moment among the
                                            Steiner students.
                                            > I see Magdalene as the thirteens, and she is following the other 7+5
                                            through history, fe. as Dinah with The Sons of Jacob, HO HSIEN KU the
                                            female part of the Eight Taoist Immortals, but also as the mother of the
                                            seven Maccabees (+5 sons of Mattathias), and at the crucial point in
                                            history where Solomon meats Hiram Abiff, and she as Balkis, The Queen of
                                            Sheba, chooses Hiram, and so forth.
                                            > Kim
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop
                                            hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
                                            > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:43 AM
                                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Okay she is not admonished and in fact we find in Mathew she is then
                                            able to hold His feet:
                                            >
                                            > " Mathew 28:
                                            >
                                            > 1(A) Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the
                                            week, Mary Magdalene and(B) the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And
                                            behold, there was a great earthquake, for(C) an angel of the Lord
                                            descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.
                                            3(D) His appearance was like lightning, and(E) his clothing white as
                                            snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and(F) became like dead
                                            men. 5But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know
                                            that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has
                                            risen,(G) as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7Then go
                                            quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and
                                            behold,(H) he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him.
                                            See, I have told you." 8So they departed quickly from the tomb(I) with
                                            fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9And behold, Jesus(J)
                                            met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and(K) took hold
                                            > of his feet and(L) worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not
                                            be afraid;(M) go and tell(N) my brothers to go to Galilee, and there
                                            they will see me."
                                            >
                                            > John: 20:17
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Jhn 20:17
                                            >
                                            > Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for
                                            1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962:
                                            but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto
                                            them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216
                                            Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God
                                            2316.
                                            >
                                            > Dottie: He says 'touch me not' not 'do not touch me'. Touch me not has
                                            another implication as to His own consciousness of what was taking place
                                            at that time.
                                            >
                                            > I find there is no understanding of this moment among the Steiner
                                            students. If one does not understand the relationship between the
                                            Magdalene and Christ Jesus then one can not understand what truly
                                            occurred with not only the wedding in cana but also the raising of
                                            lazarus and 'He is Risen'.
                                            >
                                            > So I say it is a good time to reconsider the positions of the
                                            relationship between the Magdalene as she is not as lowly as thou should
                                            have her.
                                            > And this has to do with Anthroposophia as well as who this was as it
                                            seems to me we can take her back to Ruth in this moment.
                                            >
                                            > All good things,
                                            > Dottie
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Thu, 4/1/10, dottie zold dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: dottie zold dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                                            > Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the Magdalene
                                            > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 9:44 PM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Do we really believe it possible that the Lord would 'admonish' the
                                            Magdalene? Not on your life.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > This was his most trusted disciple and the one chosen to annoint him
                                            for his passage from death to birth also the one with John the Baptist
                                            who recieved the Christ at the Jordan.
                                            >
                                            > I imagine it is time to look at this Being now that we are quite a few
                                            years into the understanding of Anthroposophia.
                                            >
                                            > All good things,
                                            > Dottie
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                            out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________________________
                                            > Bruger du Yahoo!?
                                            > Er du træt af spam? Yahoo!Mail har den bedste spambeskyttelse, der
                                            findes
                                            > http://dk.mail.yahoo.com
                                            >
                                          • dottie zold
                                            Kim, why not Elisha and Abel? In Kings when Elijah finds him the town he comes from is Abel .... something...oh yes I recall you thinking that Abel did not
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                              Kim, why not Elisha and Abel? In Kings when Elijah finds him the town he comes from is Abel .... something...oh yes I recall you thinking that Abel did not incarnate again...and it seems to me if you are staying withi this how is this not the sister soul of Adam...although I am not in line with you...but wouldn't it have to be the sister soul of Adam if this being did not rightfully incarnate physically yet was here about?
                                               
                                              okay,
                                               

                                              1 Kings 19:16 (Complete Jewish Bible)

                                              16 Also anoint Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Isra'el, and anoint Elisha the son of Shafat of Avel-M'cholah to be prophet after you.
                                               
                                              Dottie: this Avel is Abel.
                                               


                                               
                                              "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                              --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                              From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                                              Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:10 PM

                                              Yes:  Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist

                                              Abel "die" and don't incarnate, but Seth does.

                                              Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible.

                                              One of the most interesting stories are the temple legend, where
                                              Solomon, Hiram Abiff, and Balkis are the main characters. Hiram is Cain,
                                              so Solomon is Seth.

                                              This physical temple is "Cain's" apprenticeship and in his next
                                              incarnation as Elisha he receives the mantle of Elijah as he becomes the
                                              next Temple-builder. Elijah becomes Buddha in his following incarnation.

                                              Elisha becomes Jonathan, son of Mattathias, and in a later incarnation,
                                              Lazarus/John. Judas is also incarnated as a son of Mattathias, the last
                                              time he is The Lion of Judah.

                                              Solomon/Seth is the priestly line and he incarnates as Simon Peter,
                                              where he have problems with his new role, being second to Cain/John.

                                              Lazarus/John incarnates in a later incarnation as Christian Rosencreutz.


                                              > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                              up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                              the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                              Kim: Yes.

                                              > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                              Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                              you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                              refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                              Kim: I think Steiner have said that Boehme was the highest esoteric of
                                              all, which is Christian Rosecreutz. If you read about the Christian
                                              Rosencreutz incarnation you will see that he had the Lower I of Christ
                                              as Lower I, the Chrestos who hang on the Cross!

                                              I think that Christian Rosencreutz and the Bodhisattva is one and the
                                              same.

                                              Yes, Paul is really a mystery.

                                              Kim




                                              ------------------------------------

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                                            • Kim
                                              God is One, God is a Trinity, but on Earth they are seen as a duality. That is Cain and Seth, where Abel stays aloof, until the birth of Christ. Hiram is Cain.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                                God is One, God is a Trinity, but on Earth they are seen as a duality.
                                                That is Cain and Seth, where Abel stays aloof, until the birth of
                                                Christ.

                                                Hiram is Cain. Elisha is CR and Hiram is CR. Elisha is Hiram.

                                                Solomon and Seth were the priestly line. Cain is not!

                                                Kim

                                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                                <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Kim, why not Elisha and Abel? In Kings when Elijah finds him the town
                                                he comes from is Abel .... something...oh yes I recall you thinking that
                                                Abel did not incarnate again...and it seems to me if you are staying
                                                withi this how is this not the sister soul of Adam...although I am not
                                                in line with you...but wouldn't it have to be the sister soul of Adam if
                                                this being did not rightfully incarnate physically yet was here about?
                                                >
                                                > okay,
                                                >
                                                > 1 Kings 19:16 (Complete Jewish Bible)
                                                >
                                                > var strongsSearchUrl = '';
                                                > $(document).ready(MetaTextBarInit);
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > 16 Also anoint Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Isra'el, and
                                                anoint Elisha the son of Shafat of Avel-M'cholah to be prophet after
                                                you.
                                                > Read in contextRead 1 Kings 19View in parallelCompare Translations
                                                >
                                                > Dottie: this Avel is Abel.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                                out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: Kim kimgm@...
                                                > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                                > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:10 PM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Yes: Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                                >
                                                > Abel "die" and don't incarnate, but Seth does.
                                                >
                                                > Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible.
                                                >
                                                > One of the most interesting stories are the temple legend, where
                                                > Solomon, Hiram Abiff, and Balkis are the main characters. Hiram is
                                                Cain,
                                                > so Solomon is Seth.
                                                >
                                                > This physical temple is "Cain's" apprenticeship and in his next
                                                > incarnation as Elisha he receives the mantle of Elijah as he becomes
                                                the
                                                > next Temple-builder. Elijah becomes Buddha in his following
                                                incarnation.
                                                >
                                                > Elisha becomes Jonathan, son of Mattathias, and in a later
                                                incarnation,
                                                > Lazarus/John. Judas is also incarnated as a son of Mattathias, the
                                                last
                                                > time he is The Lion of Judah.
                                                >
                                                > Solomon/Seth is the priestly line and he incarnates as Simon Peter,
                                                > where he have problems with his new role, being second to Cain/John.
                                                >
                                                > Lazarus/John incarnates in a later incarnation as Christian
                                                Rosencreutz.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                                > up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                                > the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                                > Kim: Yes.
                                                >
                                                > > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                                > Boehme. I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                                > you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                                > refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                                > Kim: I think Steiner have said that Boehme was the highest esoteric of
                                                > all, which is Christian Rosecreutz. If you read about the Christian
                                                > Rosencreutz incarnation you will see that he had the Lower I of Christ
                                                > as Lower I, the Chrestos who hang on the Cross!
                                                >
                                                > I think that Christian Rosencreutz and the Bodhisattva is one and the
                                                > same.
                                                >
                                                > Yes, Paul is really a mystery.
                                                >
                                                > Kim
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                              • dottie zold
                                                I shall sit with Abel and the Rabbis for a little bit to figure this out.   Thanks Kim, d Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Apr 3, 2010
                                                  I shall sit with Abel and the Rabbis for a little bit to figure this out.
                                                   
                                                  Thanks Kim,
                                                  d

                                                  "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                                  --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                                                  Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 2:02 PM

                                                  God is One, God is a Trinity, but on Earth they are seen as a duality.
                                                  That is Cain and Seth, where Abel stays aloof, until the birth of
                                                  Christ.

                                                  Hiram is Cain. Elisha is CR and Hiram is CR. Elisha is Hiram.

                                                  Solomon and Seth were the priestly line. Cain is not!

                                                  Kim

                                                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                                  <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Kim, why not Elisha and Abel? In Kings when Elijah finds him the town
                                                  he comes from is Abel .... something...oh yes I recall you thinking that
                                                  Abel did not incarnate again...and it seems to me if you are staying
                                                  withi this how is this not the sister soul of Adam...although I am not
                                                  in line with you...but wouldn't it have to be the sister soul of Adam if
                                                  this being did not rightfully incarnate physically yet was here about?
                                                  >
                                                  > okay,
                                                  >
                                                  > 1 Kings 19:16 (Complete Jewish Bible)
                                                  >
                                                  >  var strongsSearchUrl = '';
                                                  >  $(document).ready(MetaTextBarInit);
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > 16 Also anoint Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Isra'el, and
                                                  anoint Elisha the son of Shafat of Avel-M'cholah to be prophet after
                                                  you.
                                                  > Read in contextRead 1 Kings 19View in parallelCompare Translations
                                                  >
                                                  > Dottie: this Avel is Abel.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                                  out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > From: Kim kimgm@...
                                                  > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                                  > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:10 PM
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yes:  Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                                  >
                                                  > Abel "die" and don't incarnate, but Seth does.
                                                  >
                                                  > Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible.
                                                  >
                                                  > One of the most interesting stories are the temple legend, where
                                                  > Solomon, Hiram Abiff, and Balkis are the main characters. Hiram is
                                                  Cain,
                                                  > so Solomon is Seth.
                                                  >
                                                  > This physical temple is "Cain's" apprenticeship and in his next
                                                  > incarnation as Elisha he receives the mantle of Elijah as he becomes
                                                  the
                                                  > next Temple-builder. Elijah becomes Buddha in his following
                                                  incarnation.
                                                  >
                                                  > Elisha becomes Jonathan, son of Mattathias, and in a later
                                                  incarnation,
                                                  > Lazarus/John. Judas is also incarnated as a son of Mattathias, the
                                                  last
                                                  > time he is The Lion of Judah.
                                                  >
                                                  > Solomon/Seth is the priestly line and he incarnates as Simon Peter,
                                                  > where he have problems with his new role, being second to Cain/John.
                                                  >
                                                  > Lazarus/John incarnates in a later incarnation as Christian
                                                  Rosencreutz.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                                  > up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                                  > the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                                  > Kim: Yes.
                                                  >
                                                  > > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                                  > Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                                  > you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                                  > refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                                  > Kim: I think Steiner have said that Boehme was the highest esoteric of
                                                  > all, which is Christian Rosecreutz. If you read about the Christian
                                                  > Rosencreutz incarnation you will see that he had the Lower I of Christ
                                                  > as Lower I, the Chrestos who hang on the Cross!
                                                  >
                                                  > I think that Christian Rosencreutz and the Bodhisattva is one and the
                                                  > same.
                                                  >
                                                  > Yes, Paul is really a mystery.
                                                  >
                                                  > Kim
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >




                                                  ------------------------------------

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                                                • dottie zold
                                                  Friends, I am thinking what the Magdalene encountered was not an outer holding rather an inner holding of Christ before her.   My experience is that He is
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
                                                    Friends, I am thinking what the Magdalene encountered was not an 'outer holding' rather an inner holding of Christ before her.
                                                     
                                                    My experience is that He is of the world, and it was she who at first thought of Him as in old even though she could not ever recognize that figure before her in the state He showed himself. I do not believe it was the phantom body resurrection body she saw....which is something similar to what was seen at the transfiguration....no it was something more than that and the words were more like 'do not hold onto me' not a physical meaning rather a spiritual one, a worldly one....the words that come to mind that might be a similar understanding comes with the idea of 'you  must lose something to gain it' 'you must let it go before you attain it'.....and He was like a continuing growing Light that could not be contained in the physical thought form....and so this Light had to continue to grow further and she was of her mind of him as in old not yet recognizing the Light before her....it was not an admonishment rather a teaching of how to help her to grow with Him in His own growth.
                                                     
                                                    Very very misunderstood when we seek only the physical understanding.
                                                     
                                                    All good things,
                                                    Dottie


                                                    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                                                    --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Kim <kimgm@...>
                                                    Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 2:02 PM

                                                    God is One, God is a Trinity, but on Earth they are seen as a duality.
                                                    That is Cain and Seth, where Abel stays aloof, until the birth of
                                                    Christ.

                                                    Hiram is Cain. Elisha is CR and Hiram is CR. Elisha is Hiram.

                                                    Solomon and Seth were the priestly line. Cain is not!

                                                    Kim

                                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                                    <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Kim, why not Elisha and Abel? In Kings when Elijah finds him the town
                                                    he comes from is Abel .... something...oh yes I recall you thinking that
                                                    Abel did not incarnate again...and it seems to me if you are staying
                                                    withi this how is this not the sister soul of Adam...although I am not
                                                    in line with you...but wouldn't it have to be the sister soul of Adam if
                                                    this being did not rightfully incarnate physically yet was here about?
                                                    >
                                                    > okay,
                                                    >
                                                    > 1 Kings 19:16 (Complete Jewish Bible)
                                                    >
                                                    >  var strongsSearchUrl = '';
                                                    >  $(document).ready(MetaTextBarInit);
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > 16 Also anoint Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Isra'el, and
                                                    anoint Elisha the son of Shafat of Avel-M'cholah to be prophet after
                                                    you.
                                                    > Read in contextRead 1 Kings 19View in parallelCompare Translations
                                                    >
                                                    > Dottie: this Avel is Abel.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work
                                                    out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Sat, 4/3/10, Kim kimgm@... wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Kim kimgm@...
                                                    > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: On the Magdalene
                                                    > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 12:10 PM
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes:  Adam = Elijah = John the Baptist
                                                    >
                                                    > Abel "die" and don't incarnate, but Seth does.
                                                    >
                                                    > Seth and Cain are part of a story which goes down through the bible.
                                                    >
                                                    > One of the most interesting stories are the temple legend, where
                                                    > Solomon, Hiram Abiff, and Balkis are the main characters. Hiram is
                                                    Cain,
                                                    > so Solomon is Seth.
                                                    >
                                                    > This physical temple is "Cain's" apprenticeship and in his next
                                                    > incarnation as Elisha he receives the mantle of Elijah as he becomes
                                                    the
                                                    > next Temple-builder. Elijah becomes Buddha in his following
                                                    incarnation.
                                                    >
                                                    > Elisha becomes Jonathan, son of Mattathias, and in a later
                                                    incarnation,
                                                    > Lazarus/John. Judas is also incarnated as a son of Mattathias, the
                                                    last
                                                    > time he is The Lion of Judah.
                                                    >
                                                    > Solomon/Seth is the priestly line and he incarnates as Simon Peter,
                                                    > where he have problems with his new role, being second to Cain/John.
                                                    >
                                                    > Lazarus/John incarnates in a later incarnation as Christian
                                                    Rosencreutz.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > > Now in the story of Kings we have Elisha being told by God to gather
                                                    > up a few people. These few people seem to me to be able to be found in
                                                    > the Apostles of Christ Jesus.
                                                    > Kim: Yes.
                                                    >
                                                    > > Paul. Paul is really really interesting. And so is Sergei. And so is
                                                    > Boehme.  I was thinking back to Isaia actually and well anyway what do
                                                    > you think of the Elisha element? What was your work on this if you can
                                                    > refresh my rememberance or point it to me in your writing already.
                                                    > Kim: I think Steiner have said that Boehme was the highest esoteric of
                                                    > all, which is Christian Rosecreutz. If you read about the Christian
                                                    > Rosencreutz incarnation you will see that he had the Lower I of Christ
                                                    > as Lower I, the Chrestos who hang on the Cross!
                                                    >
                                                    > I think that Christian Rosencreutz and the Bodhisattva is one and the
                                                    > same.
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes, Paul is really a mystery.
                                                    >
                                                    > Kim
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >




                                                    ------------------------------------

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                                                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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