RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Missings in Christianity
MessageHi Juan,Dottie is right, you don't understand the necessity of the consciousness soul.In your post to me you wrote:If we are able to translate these images to basic human experience(s) , we can "touch" the soul without having to stuff our language with imagery that is alien to many today and provokes rejection or indifference.Here you fill down in the head of man, but it's the other way round, it's the consciousness soul who strive up to Christ through it's development.You refer Steiners words later:It pours into people depending on the contents of their actions and thoughts, and that depends on how much these resemble the actions and thoughts of the higher being(s) of which the light is the external manifestation.You should have developed your three higher souls so much that your thoughts and actions resembles your higher I.Kim-----Original Message-----
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of asbolo
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 6:16 PM
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Missings in Christianity
> Dottie: One problem for your theory Juan: Consciousness Soul. The way you are describing these things is to bypass the Consciousness Soul and the reason for the soul being here in the first place and its development. You keep bypassing this and I don't think you realize this or if to you it even matters.
J: you say "to bypass the consciousness soul and the reason for the soul being here in the first place and its development" .
I don't understand, Dottie. I know it takes time, but to understand this "problem" I need you to explain in some detail how you reached those conclusions about my "theory".
The issue seems to be the change in focus from the rational to the consciousness soul, and how much something "matters" or how much weight we give to it is perhaps a good illustration of this change.
Another issue, related to the first, is the difference between living thinking and rationality based on concepts.
Kim has just written the following comment:
"It pours into people depending on their souls capacity to receive, and that depends on their karmic debris, and their work on karma is closely interconnected with the setup of the physical world. If the physical world didn't mean anything there was no reason for man to incarnate here."
This is a sound, rational soul comment based on general principles and common sense with regards to my statements: "This light pours into people's souls in the form of devotion, beyond all ideas and beliefs... it has not come as a result of having assimilated the concepts of karma and reincarnation, it doesn't come from any teachings: it comes directly from overwhelming pain"
Let me offer an alternative to Kim's comment, taken freely from Steiner:
"It pours into people depending on the contents of their actions and thoughts, and that depends on how much these resemble the actions and thoughts of the higher being(s) of which the light is the external manifestation. This etheric light or being is the spiritualization of the suffering and sorrow of the world today, and can be perceived by those whose work in the world is concerned with this pain: they are spiritually nurtured by it so that they can have the strength necessary to carry on their work."
and the more orthodox Christian:
"It pours into people if they are found worthy in the eyes of the Lord"
- Frank, see this is how really one can trace Rudolf Steiner to Abraham:Dottie:"Rudolf Steiner's Intelligence is Michael's Intelligence. He is the first to note it so. He is the first of the Michael humanity of the future on an outward level."The legend has it that Michael fought for the body of Abraham...funny I can consider him doing the same thing for Job.d
"Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
--- On Thu, 3/11/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Missings in Christianity
Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 7:16 AMThey may not read anything related to Christianity, but that does not mean that is what is at the heart of the matter and the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. His center is the Christ. And so even though, and thankfully so, all and any can enter into his work, it is Christ centered, and it cannot be forgotten that he leads them ever onwards towards the Christ, not what the dogmatic Christian shares, but towards the Being of Christ Himself, the Essence of Love in the world, and this can not be shied away from, for this is true.And true and beautiful it is that its an inner necessity to meet the Christ and not an outer one at this time. Meaning when one encounters the work of Rudolf Steiner they are encountering Michael's Intelligence who is beholden unto the Christ. Rudolf Steiner's Intelligence is Michael's Intelligence. He is the first to note it so. He is the first of the Michael humanity of the future on an outward level.All good things,Dottie"Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
--- On Wed, 3/10/10, fs13997 <fs13997@...> wrote:
From: fs13997 <fs13997@...>
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Missings in Christianity
Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:38 PMAgree. Anthroposophy is open to people from any religious background. And the may not read any lecture related to Christianity. They may be agnostics and read just PoF and the other early works. What matters is the meditative practice. The rest will follow from experience.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, JoAnn Schwartz <sr_joanna@...> wrote:
> Frank Thomas Smith noted:
> > Assuming you are considering spiritual science and
> > anthroposophy to be synonymous, I can't agree. Christianity
> > is certainly an element of anthroposophy, perhaps the most
> > important element, but I think it's quite possible for
> > non-Christians to be interested in, study and practice other
> > elements, such as meditation techniques, pedagogy,
> > bio-dynamics, medicine, cosmology. In fact, I know some such
> > non-purists.
> Word. I know many families who practice earth-based religions (i.e., pagans) who are also active in the waldorf and bio-dynamic gardening communities. I actually knew a pagan or two who were going through teacher training -- and developing festivals for the children based on the wheel of the year (the eight major pagan holidays). So, my personal experience is that accepting Steiner's views on religiion are neither necessary nor sufficient in order to implement and gain value from his insights on child development / education and agriculture.
> Then again, as we say here on the Midwest Coast of the U.S. of A., "Your Maya May Vary"
> Musing, I don't actually MISS Christianity but sometimes it seems like something is indeed Missing in Christianity,
> (waves to all my old friends from the Pool)
> If I can't dance - I don't want to be part of your revolution.
> --- Emma Goldman
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