Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of Animals
- Christine, Kim and Daniel:Christine, you wrote:"When we see a tree, we can "release" the nature spirit within it to
go on in the spiritual world through our being concious of its existence, for
example."And:"She told me that by the very fact of their loving contact with us, they do not go back to the group soul as such (or at least not all parts of them do) but that they become "salamanders" ie, spirits of fire that stay around our auras and work to create further bonds of love between us and other animals."This has been the point that I had tried to make earlier in another posts. It is not the animal soul, the plant and mineral essence that becomes Ego-endowed in the future (at least I should say as I understand this) but rather it is the nature spirits in these realms that are eventually freed from these realms of which they are dependent upon us to free them from the realms. They are the next wave of Beings to become Ego-endowed. That part of the animal that does not go back to the group soul is the salamander; not the astral body of the animal. By contact with humans it does grow closer to becoming and Ego-endowed Being. Does the family dog have a personality. Anyone who has ever lived with a dog would certainly agree to this. Is this the dog or is it the salamander that grows in soul forces due to its contact with humans; that is, humans act as a conduit for the salamanders growth.rick distasi----- Original Message -----From: golden3000997@...Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 1:17 PMSubject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: The Nature of AnimalsHello Kim, Daniel, et al,
I really, really want to write a treatise on this subject, but I can't right
at the moment. But your example, Daniel of your brother's dog is what I would
base the treatise on.
I sit here surrounded by books and cats. I have 11 cats. I used to have a dog
but it was too difficult to keep him here in an apartment with no one else to
help walk him, etc. if I couldn't get home on time. His name was Archer,
short for Royal Archer Goldenheart. When I was sixteen (going on seventeen) I had
and lost a kitten while I was at Threefold Farm in Spring Valley for the
summer, my first exposure to RS & Anthroposophy. I was really upset and I young
woman from the community comforted me and told me for the first time about what
happens to animals when we have loved them. She told me that by the very fact
of their loving contact with us, they do not go back to the group soul as such
(or at least not all parts of them do) but that they become "salamanders" ie,
spirits of fire that stay around our auras and work to create further bonds of
love between us and other animals.
Nothing in the past 36 years has made me believe anything different. What I
understand from Occult Science and especially "Man as Symphony of the Creative
Word" is that there is a difference between what we find in nature as animal,
plant or mineral in its "untouched" state and what it becomes through contact
with Man. When we see a tree, we can "release" the nature spirit within it to
go on in the spiritual world through our being concious of its existence, for
example. So we have to view the question raised here in terms of past present
and future and in terms of the effect of contact with Man. Occult Science
teaches us about the Past in relationship to the evolution of the earth and its
four kingdoms, mineral, plant, animal and man. We live now in the Present and
find each one of us, a relationship with the other three kingdoms. Then we can
move into the Imaginations that Steiner gave us and ask ourselves, how will
what I do now affect the evolution of the other kingdoms of earth?
We cannot lump "Animals" together anymore than we can say "Children" and mean
every age and stage of development.
This is what comes up in my imagination. There are three basic "types" of
1. Animals born and living "in the wild" in areas that still exist relatively
untouched by Man's presence. While this type of animal used to be
predominant, there are very few such domains left.
2. Animals used by man as food or "slaves" to be exploited and mistreated if
it creates a perceived benefit to man. This has always been a dominant area of
man's relationship, but in my opinion has become even more cruel and harsh as
man has moved farther away from being able to perceive the spirit in nature.
3. Animals "owned" by man as pets or companions. While some in this
relationship, especially dogs and horses may seem to fall into the second category,
because many dogs and horses "work" for or with man, I make a distinction when
there is a real bond of affection and respect between them. Other animals like
cats, birds, gerbils, etc. may not serve any outward purpose at all other than
furnishing their human with something to talk to or to cuddle with.
The animals that are still part of the first group, whatever species they may
be would then return to the Group Soul or Group Ego after their death, more
or less as they were except for whatever they bring into that Species of their
The animals of the second group probably return to the Group Soul, too. But I
have to ask myself, could they really ever be the same? Does their horrible
experience at the hands of Man change or affect the very nature of the Group
Soul and its relationship to Man in general? I would think that it does somehow.
There are examples to be found in certain works of fiction, but I wonder if
we can really grasp the karma being created here.
The animals of the third group, however, could perhaps be the ones to work as
redeemers of the second group in a sense, to counter the negative karma
between the Animal Kingdom and its Human Slaveowners and Cruel Overseers. Perhaps,
whereever an animal has shared love and respect with a human, this love can
act as a kind of homeopathic remedy to the illness that our blind cruelty is
causing. I think that animals in this third group contribute much to the group
soul, but part of them begins to form the seed of an individual Ego that will
develop in the far, far reaches of time, maybe past the Jupiter and Venus ages
of the Earth. By this I mean to the point of creating specific Man-like bodies
in which to incarnate as Egos on the planet. This is really hard to put into
concepts, because the physical nature of the earth and the physical forms of
individual Human Egos will have changed so much by then. But from the moment
that love arises, each animal "soul" (little Ego) can come into Being.
One really has to have pampered pets or know someone who does to really
experience their individuality. It can lead an outward observer to think, perhaps,
well, animals have personalities to begin with. But not exactly. This
"personality" arises from the interaction of animal soul with human soul, like the
human soul arises out of the interaction of human body with human spirit. That's
why it's so much fun to go to a dog or cat show just to see the animals with
their humans and to see how much they look alike!!! The etheric bodies grow so
connected. It can be really funny!!
But this is not to belittle the connection. It is a very serious matter. For
with Love comes Responsibility and we become responsible for these "little
Egos" the way our Angels are responsible for us. We are the tenth Hierarchy. The
Animals are the 11th, the Plants - the 12th and the Minerals, the 13th. There
is so much work yet to do!! For all practical intents and purposes, we are
NEVER going to get to lie around heaven playing harps!!! There will always be
more unfolding, creating and transforming to do!
I often wonder (really) what it means that my animals hear music in their
immediate environment, never mind the hours of conversation!!! No animal "in the
wild" hears Beethoven or the Beatles! (or me singing, for that matter - lucky
them!) What can this mean? Certainly an animal who hears music all of its life
cannot just go back to a group soul as something less than an individual!
Something totally outside the spiritual reality of the Group Soul has been added.
What does this really mean? I don't know, I just wonder.
So, no, in terms of the current human population of the earth, we are not
side by side with recently evolved animals (just not fair to the animals, this
idea!) But we are side by side with animals who look to us for the love (in
action) that will activate the "little Ego" within them which will grow in long
ages into Individuality similar to what we now consider Human.
OK, now for a REAL confession (ooh, I can just hear many of you going to be
howling at me for this) - I just LOVE the Pet Psychic, Sonia Fitzpatrick.
Please, please DON'T condemn without experiencing her program at least once. I
personally don't find any problem reconciling who she is and what she does with
RS. She is day-waking concious, there is no mediumship involved. She is
communicating with animals on this side of existence and the other side who are deeply
loved by human beings, most of which are in long term relationships.
Therefore, the "little Egos" that she is speaking with are something more than group
soul members. There is so very much love. And not just mushy sentimentality -
real love in action, real forgiveness, real redemption and healing. The one
phrase she uses over and over again is "Remember, Animals are Forever!" In terms
of Love, which is all that really is Eternal, this is absolute Truth.
and Baldur, Wicca, Maxi, Perseus, Govinda, Cleo, Calli, Bijoux, Andromeda,
Sasha and Molly : )
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- Hi Paulina,
You have my total sympathy. I'm not mature at all about the idea of any of my
little ones crossing over. I don't have human children and I think I just
couldn't bear it if I did and something happened to one of them! No maturity at
all - just a big blubbering mess!
BUT - despite all that, I really do know that they go on. And I don't think
of these kinds of "salamanders" - let's call them Fire Spirits - are like the
elemental spirits commonly found in nature. I think they are akin to them, they
live in the sphere of warmth, but it is a special kind of warmth - a warmth
engendered only where love exists between animals and humans. I believe that
they are not amorphous, but retain their "personalities" and are recognizable to
the ones they love and who have loved them.
Oh, I wish you could watch "The Pet Psychic". She used to be on Animal Planet
on Monday nights, but then they said they were moving her to a daytime slot.
I don't have any cable right now, so I can't find out what is happening. I
taped a couple of her programs, but I wish I had them all. She is absolutely
emphatic about both animals and people crossing over exactly when they are meant
to. Even if the human companion has to put the animal companion "to sleep" this
is usually the right thing and meant to be and the animals she has spoken
with thank their humans for releasing them. Other pets come to them just as
people we love who have gone before come to us. Several times she spoke of other
people who the humans knew being there with the pet on the other side.
Absolutely remarkable, the way she speaks. Nothing fuzzy, remote or generalized about
it. Totally specific references and impossible for even a production company
with a huge budget to have researched so extensively. She is totally down to
earth and direct. In one part of her show, she interacts with the animals in an
audience setting; another part, she works with grieving humans there in the
studio (usually three per show); and the third part is where she goes to many
different places (pet sanctuaries, homes, etc.) and works with particular
questions, usually behavior problems that the humans haven't been able to figure out.
Like I said before, there is nothing atavistic or medium-like about her -
just a total gift. Really one from the future, I think. One of the faculties in
fairy tales which come from the atavistic past but have to be renewed through
concious love is the ability to speak with animals. I think flying (levitating)
is another such faculty.
Yes, these little ones are our "children" in a sense. We take them on freely,
at least where there is love. And we give them our hearts and they give us
theirs. And love, in all its many forms and expression, is Eternal.
As Sonya says "Animals are Forever." : )
Peace to your heart now and at the crossing,
- Very cool Paulina!! : )
I think it's important that we check things out before making assumptions.
Everything is very complex, the material and the spiritual world, and not
everything fits neatly into slots. We need to understand the construct, but use it
as a springboard to be able to see outside the box. There are literally
millions of things in the world that did not exist in 1925 when RS died. He couldn't
simply see them all and say AB and C are going to happen. He said himself that
Waldorf Education is the perfect system for the 5th Post Atlantean epoch, but
it wouldn't do at all for the 6th. The directive I value most from him as an
educator and indeed, as a person simply trying to live in these times is to
OBSERVE and take it from that as a starting point. We can't observe if we
pre-judge and refuse to look.
Not trying to be "preachy" - I've just watched "The Matrix" - thanks to
Michael H's mention of it in one of his posts and my infinite suseptibility to the
power of suggestion!
I really want to analyse it and analyse it! Part of me says, I want to get to
reality, SEE REALITY, but my real self, the woosie says "Let me out of here!
I don't want to see anything!" I'm going to find a nice quiet cave somewhere
and wait until it all blows over. Unfortunately for Tarjei, who said that he
wanted to wait for a nice long time between incarnations and come back when
Ahriman had come and gone, he is already here and it's too late to turn back now.
I think it's definitely the time to "head for the hills" as the Bible says!
By the way, I watched "The Education of Little Tree" last night. Wonderful
film. All about the same thing, really, but from a 1930s point of view. The
battle for Truth is still there. But MUCH nicer scenery!!!
: ) Christine