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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in english

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  • Andre Gas
    Well, there is Scaligero on Facebook, where my same query hasn t been addressed. There is also the Antroforum where one can find many Scaligero fans, though
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
    Well, there is Scaligero on Facebook, where my same query hasn't been addressed.
    There is also the Antroforum where one can find many Scaligero fans, though Italians of course...I will query that forum as well!!...for sure.
    I don't want to bother anybody, like your friend...unless she would love doing it. It's a tedious task, and it proceeds very slowly, therefore time consuming!!! Fortunately, for the moment I have this time resource available!! :-)

    I am proceeding in a word table, scanned Italian on left, english translation on right, and I am inserting revision notes where I have doubts...there are many to be checked.
    I am attaching this file here.

    Best Regards
    Andrea




    2010/2/20 dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
     

    Andrea I have a friend who could help, she is native Italian and English and if you have time to work on it she can go through it if you lay the foundation. If not then I say lets get busy and get a group of people together who want to translate the works. I think it is a worthy project. Is there a Scaligiero online group? d


    "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



    --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...> wrote:

    From: Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>
    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in englishDate: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:35 AM




    Thanks a lot for your words Dotty and Jeff, that's encouraging. Dotty I had wrote a big reply, but I have lost it...sorry!!

    I wanted just to check, as you mention, whether someone else has already worked on part of this book, so we could agree to share the work.

    To me, Healing with Thinking is a more urgent book than others from Scaligero I have read. In translating it I am also helping myself a lot in understanding Scaligero's profound point of view...for now I have time to work on it...it would be nice to have it fully translated so to see what impact it might have, along with The Light.

    Best Regards
    Andrea



    2010/2/20 jeff.baggaley <jeff.baggaley@...>
     
    OK, thanks Dottie. It is probably just as well that I have not been aware of this 'battle'. It is preposterous on the face of it that Steiner could by any stretch be called an antisemite or a racist.

    Then once you gain any kind of familiarity with Steiner's work, it is clear that all such accusations are made out of either ignorance or agenda.

    I don't know about Scaligero as so little of his work is available in English, but based on what I have looked at it seems extremely unlikely.

    In any event these are the kinds of assertions which really need to be demonstrated.

    When it comes to these kinds of issues we should probably situate them within the context of the New Testament, and those passages directed towards the Jews, as well as the Pharisees and Jewish Talmudic lawyers, specifically those passages which Christ directs towards the Pharisees. If Christ were alive today, in Germany let's say, and said those kinds of things, He would, under current hate laws, whatever those are, be locked up.


    Jeff

    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
    >
    > Jeff, it is Peter Staudenmaeir who has been writing about not only Rudolf Steiner being an anti semite and racist but also Massimo Scaligero. He has shown some out of context quotes Scaligero quotes on the critics list as he has done with Rudolf Steiner's works as well. And there has been a battle over this for many years with Steiner students working to get the quotes in context and to call him out on his charges.
    >  
    > All good things,
    > Dottie
    >
    >
    > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner





  • jeff.baggaley
    Dear Andrea, Would you please ask if anyone knows of a manuscript translation of Scaligero s Graal. Thank you. Jeff
    Message 2 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Andrea,

      Would you please ask if anyone knows of a manuscript translation of Scaligero's Graal.

      Thank you.

      Jeff

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, there is Scaligero on Facebook, where my same query hasn't been
      > addressed.
      > There is also the Antroforum where one can find many Scaligero fans, though
      > Italians of course...I will query that forum as well!!...for sure.
      > I don't want to bother anybody, like your friend...unless she would love
      > doing it. It's a tedious task, and it proceeds very slowly, therefore time
      > consuming!!! Fortunately, for the moment I have this time resource
      > available!! :-)
      >
      > I am proceeding in a word table, scanned Italian on left, english
      > translation on right, and I am inserting revision notes where I have
      > doubts...there are many to be checked.
      > I am attaching this file here.
      >
      > Best Regards
      > Andrea
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 2010/2/20 dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Andrea I have a friend who could help, she is native Italian and English
      > > and if you have time to work on it she can go through it if you lay the
      > > foundation. If not then I say lets get busy and get a group of people
      > > together who want to translate the works. I think it is a worthy project. Is
      > > there a Scaligiero online group? d
      > >
      > >
      > > *"Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out
      > > in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
      > > *
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On *Sat, 2/20/10, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>* wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>
      > > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in english
      > >
      > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:35 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks a lot for your words Dotty and Jeff, that's encouraging. Dotty I had
      > > wrote a big reply, but I have lost it...sorry!!
      > >
      > > I wanted just to check, as you mention, whether someone else has already
      > > worked on part of this book, so we could agree to share the work.
      > >
      > > To me, Healing with Thinking is a more urgent book than others from
      > > Scaligero I have read. In translating it I am also helping myself a lot in
      > > understanding Scaligero's profound point of view...for now I have time to
      > > work on it...it would be nice to have it fully translated so to see what
      > > impact it might have, along with The Light.
      > >
      > > Best Regards
      > > Andrea
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 2010/2/20 jeff.baggaley <jeff.baggaley@...<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jeff.baggaley@...>
      > > >
      > >
      > >>
      > >> OK, thanks Dottie. It is probably just as well that I have not been
      > >> aware of this 'battle'. It is preposterous on the face of it that Steiner
      > >> could by any stretch be called an antisemite or a racist.
      > >>
      > >> Then once you gain any kind of familiarity with Steiner's work, it is
      > >> clear that all such accusations are made out of either ignorance or agenda.
      > >>
      > >> I don't know about Scaligero as so little of his work is available in
      > >> English, but based on what I have looked at it seems extremely unlikely.
      > >>
      > >> In any event these are the kinds of assertions which really need to be
      > >> demonstrated.
      > >>
      > >> When it comes to these kinds of issues we should probably situate them
      > >> within the context of the New Testament, and those passages directed towards
      > >> the Jews, as well as the Pharisees and Jewish Talmudic lawyers, specifically
      > >> those passages which Christ directs towards the Pharisees. If Christ were
      > >> alive today, in Germany let's say, and said those kinds of things, He would,
      > >> under current hate laws, whatever those are, be locked up.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Jeff
      > >>
      > >> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anthroposophy_tomorrow%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > >> dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> > Jeff, it is Peter Staudenmaeir who has been writing about not only
      > >> Rudolf Steiner being an anti semite and racist but also Massimo Scaligero.
      > >> He has shown some out of context quotes Scaligero quotes on the critics list
      > >> as he has done with Rudolf Steiner's works as well. And there has been a
      > >> battle over this for many years with Steiner students working to get the
      > >> quotes in context and to call him out on his charges.
      > >> >
      > >> > All good things,
      > >> > Dottie
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out
      > >> in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Andre Gas
      You d better ask yourself to the board Antroposofia at the following link http://forum.rudolfsteiner.it/index.php?board=20.0 2010/2/21 jeff.baggaley
      Message 3 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        You'd better ask yourself to the board Antroposofia at the following link

        http://forum.rudolfsteiner.it/index.php?board=20.0



        2010/2/21 jeff.baggaley <jeff.baggaley@...>
         

        Dear Andrea,

        Would you please ask if anyone knows of a manuscript translation of Scaligero's Graal.

        Thank you.

        Jeff



        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well, there is Scaligero on Facebook, where my same query hasn't been
        > addressed.
        > There is also the Antroforum where one can find many Scaligero fans, though
        > Italians of course...I will query that forum as well!!...for sure.
        > I don't want to bother anybody, like your friend...unless she would love
        > doing it. It's a tedious task, and it proceeds very slowly, therefore time
        > consuming!!! Fortunately, for the moment I have this time resource
        > available!! :-)
        >
        > I am proceeding in a word table, scanned Italian on left, english
        > translation on right, and I am inserting revision notes where I have
        > doubts...there are many to be checked.
        > I am attaching this file here.
        >
        > Best Regards
        > Andrea
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 2010/2/20 dottie zold <dottie_z@...>

        >
        > >
        > >
        > > Andrea I have a friend who could help, she is native Italian and English
        > > and if you have time to work on it she can go through it if you lay the
        > > foundation. If not then I say lets get busy and get a group of people
        > > together who want to translate the works. I think it is a worthy project. Is
        > > there a Scaligiero online group? d
        > >
        > >
        > > *"Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out
        > > in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
        > > *
        > >
        > >
        > > --- On *Sat, 2/20/10, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>* wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>

        > > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in english
        > >
        > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:35 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks a lot for your words Dotty and Jeff, that's encouraging. Dotty I had
        > > wrote a big reply, but I have lost it...sorry!!
        > >
        > > I wanted just to check, as you mention, whether someone else has already
        > > worked on part of this book, so we could agree to share the work.
        > >
        > > To me, Healing with Thinking is a more urgent book than others from
        > > Scaligero I have read. In translating it I am also helping myself a lot in
        > > understanding Scaligero's profound point of view...for now I have time to
        > > work on it...it would be nice to have it fully translated so to see what
        > > impact it might have, along with The Light.
        > >
        > > Best Regards
        > > Andrea
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 2010/2/20 jeff.baggaley <jeff.baggaley@...<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jeff.baggaley@...>

        > > >
        > >
        > >>
        > >> OK, thanks Dottie. It is probably just as well that I have not been
        > >> aware of this 'battle'. It is preposterous on the face of it that Steiner
        > >> could by any stretch be called an antisemite or a racist.
        > >>
        > >> Then once you gain any kind of familiarity with Steiner's work, it is
        > >> clear that all such accusations are made out of either ignorance or agenda.
        > >>
        > >> I don't know about Scaligero as so little of his work is available in
        > >> English, but based on what I have looked at it seems extremely unlikely.
        > >>
        > >> In any event these are the kinds of assertions which really need to be
        > >> demonstrated.
        > >>
        > >> When it comes to these kinds of issues we should probably situate them
        > >> within the context of the New Testament, and those passages directed towards
        > >> the Jews, as well as the Pharisees and Jewish Talmudic lawyers, specifically
        > >> those passages which Christ directs towards the Pharisees. If Christ were
        > >> alive today, in Germany let's say, and said those kinds of things, He would,
        > >> under current hate laws, whatever those are, be locked up.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Jeff
        > >>
        > >> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anthroposophy_tomorrow%40yahoogroups.com>,

        > >> dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Jeff, it is Peter Staudenmaeir who has been writing about not only
        > >> Rudolf Steiner being an anti semite and racist but also Massimo Scaligero.
        > >> He has shown some out of context quotes Scaligero quotes on the critics list
        > >> as he has done with Rudolf Steiner's works as well. And there has been a
        > >> battle over this for many years with Steiner students working to get the
        > >> quotes in context and to call him out on his charges.
        > >> >
        > >> > All good things,
        > >> > Dottie
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out
        > >> in the right way." Rudolf Steiner
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


      • dottie zold
        Andre I like the word table idea you have of noting areas you think might need some more help. My friend Milena doesn t have alot of time but I know if you
        Message 4 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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          Andre I like the word table idea you have of noting areas you think might need some more help. My friend Milena doesn't have alot of time but I know if you get things going she can check on the languages and how they meet what is trying to be said. She's also someone who appreciates Rudolf Steiner's work although she has not studied it.
           
          I think it would be a good project/endeavor for you to do if you have time and find worth in Massimo's work and think others could benefit from his considerations. You are now working with the Beings of Form when you seek to create a group such as the one we are speaking about. If it is selfless and serves the Beings will help you to keep on keeping on until you find the right team.
           
          I will ask tonight for some ideas that might help you with this endeavor.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie

          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...> wrote:

          From: Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in english [1 Attachment]
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:47 PM

          [Attachment(s) from Andre Gas included below]

          Well, there is Scaligero on Facebook, where my same query hasn't been addressed.
          There is also the Antroforum where one can find many Scaligero fans, though Italians of course...I will query that forum as well!!...for sure.
          I don't want to bother anybody, like your friend...unless she would love doing it. It's a tedious task, and it proceeds very slowly, therefore time consuming!!! Fortunately, for the moment I have this time resource available!! :-)

          I am proceeding in a word table, scanned Italian on left, english translation on right, and I am inserting revision notes where I have doubts...there are many to be checked.
          I am attaching this file here.

          Best Regards
          Andrea




          2010/2/20 dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
           
          Andrea I have a friend who could help, she is native Italian and English and if you have time to work on it she can go through it if you lay the foundation. If not then I say lets get busy and get a group of people together who want to translate the works. I think it is a worthy project. Is there a Scaligiero online group? d


          "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



          --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Andre Gas <lonbluster@...> wrote:

          From: Andre Gas <lonbluster@...>
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in englishDate: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:35 AM




          Thanks a lot for your words Dotty and Jeff, that's encouraging. Dotty I had wrote a big reply, but I have lost it...sorry!!

          I wanted just to check, as you mention, whether someone else has already worked on part of this book, so we could agree to share the work.

          To me, Healing with Thinking is a more urgent book than others from Scaligero I have read. In translating it I am also helping myself a lot in understanding Scaligero's profound point of view...for now I have time to work on it...it would be nice to have it fully translated so to see what impact it might have, along with The Light.

          Best Regards
          Andrea



          2010/2/20 jeff.baggaley <jeff.baggaley@...>
           
          OK, thanks Dottie. It is probably just as well that I have not been aware of this 'battle'. It is preposterous on the face of it that Steiner could by any stretch be called an antisemite or a racist.

          Then once you gain any kind of familiarity with Steiner's work, it is clear that all such accusations are made out of either ignorance or agenda.

          I don't know about Scaligero as so little of his work is available in English, but based on what I have looked at it seems extremely unlikely.

          In any event these are the kinds of assertions which really need to be demonstrated.

          When it comes to these kinds of issues we should probably situate them within the context of the New Testament, and those passages directed towards the Jews, as well as the Pharisees and Jewish Talmudic lawyers, specifically those passages which Christ directs towards the Pharisees. If Christ were alive today, in Germany let's say, and said those kinds of things, He would, under current hate laws, whatever those are, be locked up.


          Jeff

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jeff, it is Peter Staudenmaeir who has been writing about not only Rudolf Steiner being an anti semite and racist but also Massimo Scaligero. He has shown some out of context quotes Scaligero quotes on the critics list as he has done with Rudolf Steiner's works as well. And there has been a battle over this for many years with Steiner students working to get the quotes in context and to call him out on his charges.
          >  
          > All good things,
          > Dottie
          >
          >
          > "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner






          Attachment(s) from Andre Gas

          1 of 1 File(s)



        • fs13997
          The suggestion of creating a network to collaborate on the translation of one of Massimo s books seems a good idea. The text could be posted and various people
          Message 5 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            The suggestion of creating a network to collaborate on the translation of one of Massimo's books seems a good idea. The text could be posted and various people might contribute on revising and adding parts. Also, I don't have any interest in any rights that may derive from such work. But together we might help each other through reciprocal suggestions, corrections, and ideas.

            Fred

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
            >
            > Andre I like the word table idea you have of noting areas you think might need some more help. My friend Milena doesn't have alot of time but I know if you get things going she can check on the languages and how they meet what is trying to be said. She's also someone who appreciates Rudolf Steiner's work although she has not studied it.
            >  
            > I think it would be a good project/endeavor for you to do if you have time and find worth in Massimo's work and think others could benefit from his considerations. You are now working with the Beings of Form when you seek to create a group such as the one we are speaking about. If it is selfless and serves the Beings will help you to keep on keeping on until you find the right team.
            >  
            > I will ask tonight for some ideas that might help you with this endeavor.
            >  
            > All good things,
            > Dottie
            >
          • Frank
            ... Come on, Jeff, I m not smearing anybody. My question to our Italian friend(s) was: Are the allegations that Scaligero was a fascist, anti-Semite and
            Message 6 of 25 , Feb 21, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "jeff.baggaley" <jeff.baggaley@...> wrote:
              >
              > PS Frank, instead of smearing Scaligero by these racist aspersions, you will need to detail proofs. Otherwise why even bother going by the pretence of using anthropsopsophy as a cover for our activities?
              >
              > Jeff

              Come on, Jeff, I'm not smearing anybody. My question to our Italian friend(s) was: "Are the allegations that Scaligero was a fascist, anti-Semite and racist - at least during the Mussolini regime - true? If so, did he ever recant, apologize offer a mea culpa? And if not, is his anthroposophical work forever tainted by his past?"

              If the allegations are not true, they only have to say so - and why. If so, the rest of the question is irrelevant. I am sincerely interested in this. Here are a couple of quotes:

              "In all of this, antisemitism represents only a single chapter; once it has been liquidated through the elimination of the Judaic virus and the biological re-integration of Aryan ethnic values, the campaign will assume much broader proportions in which even sharper forces will be at stake; then we will have achieved the conditions for engaging in a decisive battle against the profane, egalitarian, leveling, and anti-spiritual powers, against the promiscuity of values, against satanic materialism, against the abuses of bourgeois modernity, against the hedonistic and orgiastic modern world." (p. 327) of "Compito eroico dello spirito nell'azione razzista", La Vita Italiana, September 1939, (pp. 327-333) by Scaligero

              "The present correspondence between problems of the spirit and problems of politics and civilization must lead us to consider our racial dignity and our antisemitic stance as a profound spiritual responsibility, so that our movement does not exhaust itself in a merely exterior attitude, but imbues itself with the capacity to identify and neutralize those subtle forces of Judaism which act in secret under less suspicious guise. Behind every form of materialistic opportunism, behind every appearance of political or
              doctrinal camouflage, behind every kind of utilitarianism and personalism, in every polemical deployment that tries to confuse the terms of the vital problems of the spirit through the subversion of cultural influences, we must recognize a Jewish psychological style, orthodox in form and corrosive in essence, disguised as antisemitic but actually Jewish in its innermost intention. We must oppose the activity of these subtle and secret forces with an action that is radical in the inner sense and that can thus also strike those who are the conscious or unwitting instruments of Hebraism, those who partake in the Semitic campaign to sow doubt about the essence of
              our Roman Tradition, or who try to separate the concept of Romanness from the concept of metaphysical knowledge, or sunder the concept of the Empire from the concept of universality. The racist idea must transform itself into the positive reality of the Second Roman Empire." (p. 332) of same.

              Translation by Staudenmaier, I presume, because I can't find the book online.

              Btw, the original link I cited (egoisten.de) is an anthroposophical site. In any case, if all this is a fabrication by Staudenmaier, it would be very helpful to know it.

              Frank
              ___________


              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "jeff.baggaley" <jeff.baggaley@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Andrea,
              > >
              > > I strongly encourage you to continue with your efforts! Frank does have a point that the translation comes across as clunky and may perhaps be inaccurate in areas, but it is something to work with at that point, and perhaps fellow Italians with a good working knowledge of English such as Federico, aka Fred, or fellow Anglos with good working knowledge of Italian such as Mark Willan (who has translated a few other works from Scaligero into English, one such work with Scaligero's stamp of approval before his death) may assist in revisions.
              > >
              > > Some of us actually want to practice the anthroposophical esoteric techniques. Any help and suggestions in doing so from persons who have already followed the Path are always welcome!
              > >
              > > There are two books by Scaligero which I would be interested in seeing in English translation:
              > >
              > > Graal
              > >
              > > There is a synopsis here:
              > >
              > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/9682181/Massimo-Scaligero-Sacro-Amoreeng
              > >
              > > And Iside-Sophia:
              > >
              > > http://books.google.ca/books?id=MZ1yBf6hv0cC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Massimo+Scaligero&lr=&client=firefox-a&cd=18#v=onepage&q=&f=false
              > >
              > > On another list Federico suggested another title which would probably be of most benefit for English speakers to study.
              > >
              > > Thank you kindly for taking this initiative!
              > >
              > > Very best,
              > >
              > > Jeff
              > >
              > > PS Note to Federico: I would be interested in seeing you resume your history of Anthroposophy in Italy.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Andre Gas <lonbluster@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dear Frank,
              > > > This is completely non sense to me. Even Steiner has been accused of
              > > > anti-semitism, but if you read one of his books cosciously you can realize
              > > > the impossibility of the feat. Same for Scaligero: do you have a clue what
              > > > an hidrance to esoteric training such idealisms bring about?
              > > > Scaligero was talking about thinking, epistemology all the time, don't you
              > > > think it's really non sense to arrive to take any position against man
              > > > himself?
              > > > Anyway for better understanding I translate what the Italian wikipedia says
              > > > about this:
              > > >
              > > > http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Scaligero
              > > >
              > > > Even the fact that Scaligero could have been, along with Evola, collaborator
              > > > in the magazine "The defence of the race" by Telesio Interlandi, this
              > > > clarifies alone the vision of man as essentially unequal, only distinctive
              > > > criteria of a "thinking thought" built here and there on oriental and
              > > > mystical sources. This collaboration, then, can also be intended in the
              > > > sense he himself indicated in his autobiography "From Yoga to the
              > > > Rosecrucis":
              > > > " When racism broke out - he writes - I don't deny I was worried, because I
              > > > saw instantly the absurd developments of such a stance. I tryed to react in
              > > > an energetic way, giving that initiative a content which could predominate
              > > > it, an ethic and symbolic content(...) But my attempt has been knocked out
              > > > by the usual political fanaticism (...)
              > > > It even happened that an observer would accuse me of "disguised
              > > > anti-racialism"(...) What I then thought about racism I keep thinking it
              > > > nowadays: I consider it an mental error due to the inability to discriminate
              > > > in the conscience the inner element independent of race"
              > > > Furthermore he wrote that (From "The right wing and Jews", G.S.Rossi,
              > > > Rubbettino, 2007).
              > > > "
              > > > Each racial problematic denounce a regress in the social sense and a
              > > > mystification of culture which pretend to be social(...) The inequality
              > > > between man a man isn't an exterior data, but an interior one
              > > > "
              > > >
              > > > Instead of rising such inconsistent argumentations, can't you just spend few
              > > > minutes on a single paragraph from mine, so you can tell me specifically
              > > > what errors and awkwardness you mention?
              > > >
              > > > Cheers
              > > >
              > > > Andrea
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Dear Andre,
              > > > > The problem with your translation is that it is obviously not done by a
              > > > > native speaker of English...or someone who is completely bilingual. It is
              > > > > therefore, although understandable, awkward in style and contains many
              > > > > errors. I think you should find a native English speaker who also knows
              > > > > Italian to go over it with you and clean it up, so to speak.
              > > > > But now to another problem - one which seems to be a problem, at least to
              > > > > me. Massimo Scaligero.
              > > > > http://www.egoisten.de/autoren/staudenmaier/page461/page461.html
              > > > >
              > > > > "...What anthroposophists do not mention is that Scaligero played a
              > > > > prominent role in promoting the racist campaign of the Fascist regime
              > > > > between 1938 and 1943, despite the fact that Scaligero's participation in
              > > > > the racist campaign is discussed in dozens of historical studies of the
              > > > > period. Scaligero was a major spokesman for what he termed "spiritual
              > > > > racism." While several other anthroposophists served as active functionaries
              > > > > in the Fascist racial bureaucracy, Scaligero's chief position was that of
              > > > > publicist, calling for an intensified application of the race laws in nearly
              > > > > a hundred articles on race, as well as a 275 page book on race, which he
              > > > > produced between the introduction of the Fascist racial legislation in 1938
              > > > > and the fall of Mussolini's first regime in 1943. At the heart of
              > > > > Scaligero's racial theory was an implacable antisemitism, and much of his
              > > > > most aggressively racist writing was directed against the Jews..."
              > > > >
              > > > > Although this was written by Peter Staudenmaier, who is known to have gone
              > > > > overboard regarding alleged racism and antisemitism in anthroposophy, what
              > > > > he says here rings true. (I don't know Italian, but because of Spanish can
              > > > > get a general idea of the meaning of certain items that appear as a result
              > > > > of a google search.) So my questions to you are: Are the allegations that
              > > > > Scaligero was a fascist, anti-Semite and racist - at least during the
              > > > > Mussolini regime - true? If so, did he ever recant, apologize offer a mea
              > > > > culpa? And if not, is his anthroposophical work forever tainted by his past?
              > > > > Frank
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • dottie zold
              Fred, . FRANK! i love you always....and Fred has to go please, d Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way.
              Message 7 of 25 , Feb 21, 2010
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                Fred, . FRANK! i love you always....and Fred has to go please, d

                "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner



                --- On Sat, 2/20/10, fs13997 <fs13997@...> wrote:

                From: fs13997 <fs13997@...>
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Massimo Scaligero in english
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:39 PM

                The suggestion of creating a network to collaborate on the translation of one of Massimo's books seems a good idea. The text could be posted and various people might contribute on revising and adding parts. Also, I don't have any interest in any rights that may derive from such work. But together we might help each other through reciprocal suggestions, corrections, and ideas.

                Fred

                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                > Andre I like the word table idea you have of noting areas you think might need some more help. My friend Milena doesn't have alot of time but I know if you get things going she can check on the languages and how they meet what is trying to be said. She's also someone who appreciates Rudolf Steiner's work although she has not studied it.
                >  
                > I think it would be a good project/endeavor for you to do if you have time and find worth in Massimo's work and think others could benefit from his considerations. You are now working with the Beings of Form when you seek to create a group such as the one we are speaking about. If it is selfless and serves the Beings will help you to keep on keeping on until you find the right team.
                >  
                > I will ask tonight for some ideas that might help you with this endeavor.
                >  
                > All good things,
                > Dottie
                >




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              • Frank
                ... ummm Where does Fred have to go?
                Message 8 of 25 , Feb 21, 2010
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Fred, . FRANK! i love you always....and Fred has to go please, d

                  ummm Where does Fred have to go?
                • Andre Gas
                  New version, expanded, updated. Enjoy.
                  Message 9 of 25 , Feb 22, 2010
                  New version, expanded, updated.
                  Enjoy.
                • Andre Gas
                  Latest update, for whoever daring. Find attachment and edit as much as you want.
                  Message 10 of 25 , Feb 27, 2010
                  Latest update, for whoever daring.
                  Find attachment and edit as much as you want.
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