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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: King David and Lazarus and Soul

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  • dottie zold
    Hi Kim,   I am so so so shaken with this new wave of what has to be done in order that Elderberries can continue forth. I had a very interesting dream on
    Message 1 of 173 , Oct 7, 2009
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      Hi Kim,
       
      I am so so so shaken with this new wave of what has to be done in order that Elderberries can continue forth. I had a very interesting dream on Mount St. Odille where I was with Sergei and we held off the dragon but Sergei was wounded....but I was in this full head gear like the Kwan Yin and like Gondalf i was able to cease the dragon with the force of my inner power...it was really really something so every time I start to slip into this fear that wants to overtake me I recall that moment and I can make this strange stand within me that does not let that fear penetrate....and yet still be caring and compassionate without having to be something I am not like falsely, without consciousness, recognize what is going on.....
       
      Anyhow, I really really really want to look at this with King David and Saul and I can't wrap my head around it right now but I will hold what you are offering to look at as I move through my days.
       
      All good things and much love,
      Dottie

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

      From: Kim <kimgm@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: King David and Lazarus and Soul
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 6:56 AM



      Hi Dottie,
      Do you know what it means that Saul is of the tribe of Benjamin?

      This text is also interesting, and I think it means more than Jonathan and David is buddies:
      1 Samuel 18:1 It happened, when he had made an end of speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul
      Jonathan sounds familiar, John?

      Before David comes into play, Jonathan had proven himself:
      1 Samuel 14:45 The people said to Saul, "Shall Jonathan die, who has worked this great salvation in Israel? Far from it! As Yahweh lives, there shall not one hair of his head fall to the ground; for he has worked with God this day!" So the people rescued Jonathan, that he didn't die

      The daughter of Saul and wife of David, Michal, is also an interesting name:
      1 Samuel 18:28 Saul saw and knew that Yahweh was with David; and Michal, Saul's daughter, loved him.

      David takes care of the son of Jonathan:
      2 Samuel 4:4 Now JonathanSaul's son, had a son who was lame of his feet. He was five years old when the news came of Saul and Jonathan out of Jezreel; and his nurse took him up, and fled: and it happened, as she made haste to flee, that he fell, and became lame. His name was Mephibosheth.
      The problem with the feet we also find by Oedipus, who is the one who fought Ahriman. The name Mephibosheth is also interesting in this connection.

      It's in a way funny with the likeliness of Saul and Soul:)

      Kim 

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
      >
      > My God! This passage on Saul in Samuel and others is just astounding, and then to find them in Acts as well is just mind boggling....what is going on.....
      >  
      > http://bibletab.com/s/saul.htm
      >  
      > Multi-Version Concordance
      >
      > Saul (371 Occurrences)
      > Acts 7:58 They threw him out of the city, and stoned him. The witnesses placed their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 8:1 Saul was consenting to his death. A great persecution arose against the assembly which was in Jerusalem in that day. They were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except for the apostles. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 8:3 But Saul ravaged the assembly, entering into every house, and dragged both men and women off to prison. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:1 But Saul, still breathing threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:4 He fell on the earth, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:7 Meanwhile the men who travelled with Saul were standing dumb with amazement, hearing a sound, but seeing no one. (WEY NIV)
      > Acts 9:8 Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened, he saw no one. They led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:11 The Lord said to him, "Arise, and go to the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judah for one named Saul, a man of Tarsus. For behold, he is praying, (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:17 Ananias departed, and entered into the house. Laying his hands on him, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord, who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me, that you may receive your sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:19 He took food and was strengthened. Saul stayed several days with the disciples who were at Damascus. (WEB KJV WBS YLT NIV)
      > Acts 9:22 But Saul increased more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived at Damascus, proving that this is the Christ. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:23 At length the Jews plotted to kill Saul; (WEY)
      > Acts 9:24 but their plot became known to Saul. They watched the gates both day and night that they might kill him, (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 9:26 When Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join himself to the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple. (WEB KJV WBS YLT)
      > Acts 9:27 Barnabas, however, came to his assistance. He brought Saul to the Apostles, and related to them how, on his journey, he had seen the Lord, and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had fearlessly taught in the name of Jesus. (WEY NIV)
      > Acts 9:28 Henceforth Saul was one of them, going in and out of the city, (WEY NIV)
      > Acts 11:25 Barnabas went out to Tarsus to look for Saul. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 11:26 When he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. It happened, that for a whole year they were gathered together with the assembly, and taught many people. The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. (See NIV)
      > Acts 11:30 which they also did, sending it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 12:25 Barnabas and Saul returned to Jerusalem, when they had fulfilled their service, also taking with them John whose surname was Mark. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:1 Now in the assembly that was at Antioch there were some prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen the foster brother of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:2 As they served the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Separate Barnabas and Saul for me, for the work to which I have called them." (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of understanding. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul, and sought to hear the word of God. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:9 But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fastened his eyes on him, (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:21 Afterward they asked for a king, and God gave to them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 13:22 When he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, to whom he also testified,'I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who will do all my will.' (See NIV)
      > Acts 22:7 I fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to me,'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?' (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 22:13 came to me, and standing by me said to me,'Brother Saul, receive your sight!' In that very hour I looked up at him. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Acts 26:14 When we had all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language,'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Genesis 36:37 And Samlah died, and Saul of Rehoboth by the river reigned in his stead. (KJV DBY WBS YLT)
      > Genesis 36:38 And Saul died, and Baalhanan the son of Achbor reigned in his stead. (KJV DBY WBS YLT)
      > Genesis 46:10 And the sons of Simeon: Jemuel, And Jamin, And Ohad, And Jachin, And Zohar, And Saul the son of a Canaanitish woman. (DBY)
      > Exodus 6:15 And the sons of Simeon: Jemuel, And Jamin, And Ohad, And Jachin, And Zohar, And Saul the son of a Canaanitish woman: these are the families of Simeon. (DBY)
      > Numbers 26:13 of Zerah, the family of the Zarhites; of Saul, the family of the Saulites. (DBY)
      > 1 Samuel 9:2 He had a son, whose name was Saul, an impressive young man; and there was not among the children of Israel a better person than he. From his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:3 The donkeys of Kish, Saul's father, were lost. Kish said to Saul his son, "Take now one of the servants with you, and arise, go seek the donkeys." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:5 When they had come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant who was with him, "Come, and let us return, lest my father stop caring about the donkeys, and be anxious for us." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:7 Then said Saul to his servant, "But, behold, if we go, what shall we bring the man? For the bread is spent in our vessels, and there is not a present to bring to the man of God. What do we have?" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:8 The servant answered Saul again, and said, "Behold, I have in my hand the fourth part of a shekel of silver. I will give that to the man of God, to tell us our way." (WEB KJV JPS ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:10 Then said Saul to his servant, "Well said. Come, let us go." So they went to the city where the man of God was. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:15 Now Yahweh had revealed to Samuel a day before Saul came, saying, (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:17 When Samuel saw Saul, Yahweh said to him, "Behold, the man of whom I spoke to you! this same shall have authority over my people." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:18 Then Saul drew near to Samuel in the gate, and said, "Tell me, please, where the seer's house is." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:19 Samuel answered Saul, and said, "I am the seer. Go up before me to the high place, for you shall eat with me today. In the morning I will let you go, and will tell you all that is in your heart. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:21 Saul answered, "Am I not a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? And my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? Why then do you speak to me like this?" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:22 Samuel took Saul and his servant, and brought them into the guest room, and made them sit in the best place among those who were invited, who were about thirty persons. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:24 The cook took up the thigh, and that which was on it, and set it before Saul. Samuel said, "Behold, that which has been reserved! Set it before yourself and eat; because for the appointed time has it been kept for you, for I said,'I have invited the people.'" So Saul ate with Samuel that day. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:25 When they had come down from the high place into the city, he talked with Saul on the housetop. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:26 They arose early: and it happened about the spring of the day, that Samuel called to Saul on the housetop, saying, "Get up, that I may send you away." Saul arose, and they went out both of them, he and Samuel, abroad. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 9:27 As they were going down at the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, "Tell the servant pass on before us" (and he passed on), "but stand still first, that I may cause you to hear the word of God." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:11 It happened, when all who knew him before saw that, behold, he prophesied with the prophets, then the people said one to another, "What is this that is come to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:12 One of the same place answered, "Who is their father?" Therefore it became a proverb, "Is Saul also among the prophets?" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:14 Saul's uncle said to him and to his servant, "Where did you go?" He said, "To seek the donkeys. When we saw that they were not found, we came to Samuel." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:15 Saul's uncle said, "Tell me, please, what Samuel said to you." (WEB KJV JPS ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:16 Saul said to his uncle, "He told us plainly that the donkeys were found." But concerning the matter of the kingdom, of which Samuel spoke, he didn't tell him. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:21 He brought the tribe of Benjamin near by their families; and the family of the Matrites was taken; and Saul the son of Kish was taken: but when they sought him, he could not be found. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:26 Saul also went to his house to Gibeah; and there went with him the army, whose hearts God had touched. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 10:27 But certain worthless fellows said, "How shall this man save us?" They despised him, and brought him no present. But he held his peace. (See NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:4 Then the messengers came to Gibeah of Saul, and spoke these words in the ears of the people: and all the people lifted up their voice, and wept. (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:5 Behold, Saul came following the oxen out of the field; and Saul said, "What ails the people that they weep?" They told him the words of the men of Jabesh. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:6 The Spirit of God came mightily on Saul when he heard those words, and his anger was kindled greatly. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:7 He took a yoke of oxen, and cut them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the borders of Israel by the hand of messengers, saying, "Whoever doesn't come forth after Saul and after Samuel, so shall it be done to his oxen." The dread of Yahweh fell on the people, and they came out as one man. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:11 It was so on the next day, that Saul put the people in three companies; and they came into the midst of the camp in the morning watch, and struck the Ammonites until the heat of the day: and it happened, that those who remained were scattered, so that no two of them were left together. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:12 The people said to Samuel, "Who is he who said,'Shall Saul reign over us?' Bring those men, that we may put them to death!" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:13 Saul said, "There shall not a man be put to death this day; for today Yahweh has worked deliverance in Israel." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 11:14 Then Samuel said to the people, Come, let us go to Gilgal and there make the kingdom strong in the hands of Saul. (BBE)
      > 1 Samuel 11:15 All the people went to Gilgal; and there they made Saul king before Yahweh in Gilgal; and there they offered sacrifices of peace offerings before Yahweh; and there Saul and all the men of Israel rejoiced greatly. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:1 Saul was forty years old when he began to reign; and when he had reigned two years over Israel, (WEB KJV JPS ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:2 Saul chose him three thousand men of Israel, of which two thousand were with Saul in Michmash and in the Mount of Bethel, and one thousand were with Jonathan in Gibeah of Benjamin: and the rest of the people he sent every man to his tent. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:3 Jonathan struck the garrison of the Philistines that was in Geba: and the Philistines heard of it. Saul blew the trumpet throughout all the land, saying, "Let the Hebrews hear!" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:4 All Israel heard that Saul had struck the garrison of the Philistines, and also that Israel was had in abomination with the Philistines. The people were gathered together after Saul to Gilgal. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:7 Now some of the Hebrews had gone over the Jordan to the land of Gad and Gilead; but as for Saul, he was yet in Gilgal, and all the people followed him trembling. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:9 Saul said, "Bring here the burnt offering to me, and the peace offerings." He offered the burnt offering. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:10 It came to pass that as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came; and Saul went out to meet him, that he might greet him. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:11 Samuel said, "What have you done?" Saul said, "Because I saw that the people were scattered from me, and that you didn't come within the days appointed, and that the Philistines assembled themselves together at Michmash; (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:13 Samuel said to Saul, "You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of Yahweh your God, which he commanded you; for now Yahweh would have established your kingdom on Israel forever. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:15 Samuel arose, and went from Gilgal to Gibeah of Benjamin. Saul numbered the people who were present with him, about six hundred men. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:16 Saul, and Jonathan his son, and the people who were present with them, abode in Geba of Benjamin: but the Philistines encamped in Michmash. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 13:22 So it came to pass in the day of battle, that there was neither sword nor spear found in the hand of any of the people who were with Saul and Jonathan: but with Saul and with Jonathan his son was there found. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:1 Now it fell on a day, that Jonathan the son of Saul said to the young man who bore his armor, "Come, and let us go over to the Philistines' garrison, that is on the other side." But he didn't tell his father. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:2 Saul abode in the uttermost part of Gibeah under the pomegranate tree which is in Migron: and the people who were with him were about six hundred men; (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:16 The watchmen of Saul in Gibeah of Benjamin looked; and behold, the multitude melted away, and they went here and there. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:17 Then said Saul to the people who were with him, "Count now, and see who is missing from us." When they had counted, behold, Jonathan and his armor bearer were not there. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:18 Saul said to Ahijah, "Bring the ark of God here." For the ark of God was there at that time with the children of Israel. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:19 It happened, while Saul talked to the priest, that the tumult that was in the camp of the Philistines went on and increased: and Saul said to the priest, "Withdraw your hand!" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:20 Saul and all the people who were with him were gathered together, and came to the battle: and behold, every man's sword was against his fellow, and there was a very great confusion. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:21 Now the Hebrews who were with the Philistines as before, and who went up with them into the camp, from the country all around, even they also turned to be with the Israelites who were with Saul and Jonathan. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:24 The men of Israel were distressed that day; for Saul had adjured the people, saying, "Cursed is the man who eats any food until it is evening, and I am avenged of my enemies." So none of the people tasted food. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:33 Then they told Saul, saying, "Behold, the people are sinning against Yahweh, in that they eat meat with the blood." He said, "You have dealt treacherously. Roll a large stone to me this day!" (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:34 Saul said, "Disperse yourselves among the people, and tell them,'Bring me here every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and kill them here, and eat; and don't sin against Yahweh in eating meat with the blood.'" All the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and killed them there. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:35 Saul built an altar to Yahweh. This was the first altar that he built to Yahweh. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:36 Saul said, "Let us go down after the Philistines by night, and take spoil among them until the morning light, and let us not leave a man of them." They said, "Do whatever seems good to you." Then the priest said, "Let us draw near here to God." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:37 Saul asked counsel of God, "Shall I go down after the Philistines? Will you deliver them into the hand of Israel?" But he didn't answer him that day. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:38 Saul said, "Draw near here, all you chiefs of the people; and know and see in which this sin has been this day. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:40 Then said he to all Israel, "You be on one side, and I and Jonathan my son will be on the other side." The people said to Saul, "Do what seems good to you." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:41 Therefore Saul said to Yahweh, the God of Israel, "Show the right." Jonathan and Saul were chosen; but the people escaped. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:42 Saul said, "Cast lots between me and Jonathan my son." Jonathan was selected. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:43 Then Saul said to Jonathan, "Tell me what you have done!" Jonathan told him, and said, "I certainly did taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in my hand; and behold, I must die." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:44 Saul said, "God do so and more also; for you shall surely die, Jonathan." (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > 1 Samuel 14:45 The people said to Saul, "Shall Jonathan die, who has worked this great salvation in Israel? Far from it! As Yahweh lives, there shall not one hair of his head fall to the ground; for he has worked with God this day!" So the people rescued Jonathan, that he didn't die. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
      > Continued...
      >
      >
      > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      >
      > --- On Tue, 9/29/09, dottie zold dottie_z@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: dottie zold dottie_z@...
      > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] King David and Lazarus
      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 7:06 AM
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      > King David, beloved, and Lazarus, beloved, now wouldn't that be something....wouldn't it be something if King David was Lazarus and in that case he would have not only the Nathaniel line with him but also the Solomon, both sons, within him, to help him rise and receive the Sophia. And then of course he would have Michael from the Son to be with him as well.....the servant of Michael, Rudolf Steiner, to offer his highest seed for the future development of man. d 
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      > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      >



    • dottie zold
      Doctors doing studies. One of them in the last year on Oprah Winfrey. Pretty interesting that little by little these things are becoming known. Not only that
      Message 173 of 173 , Nov 25, 2009
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        Doctors doing studies. One of them in the last year on Oprah Winfrey. Pretty interesting that little by little these things are becoming known. Not only that but to hear regular conversations of people 'thinking' instead of repeating, we find the same considerations when talking about the heart and its functions. Suddenly it is making more sense to people in general that maybe its not just a pump when taking into consideration what came first, the chicken or the egg. Doctors following the embryo are beginning to verfy little by little Rudolf Steiner's considerations from over a hundred years ago when they didn't have the equipment they do now.
         
        All good things Peter,
        Dottie

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Wed, 11/25/09, leroypatter <leroypatter@...> wrote:

        From: leroypatter <leroypatter@...>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Mr. Dugan and Ms. Winters
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:50 PM

        "not only are doctors coming the understanding that the heart is not a pump"

        Hi, really interested about where this information comes from?

        Thanks,

        Pete.

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <coolvibes@...> wrote:
        >
        > Careful there, Dottie -- if Dan & Di & other holefolks are forced to admit anything like this, through double blind heart tests or whatever -- they'll argue that this is the case among anthroposophists only, because anthroposophists, eurythmists, mantra chanters, Akasha travellers, child hypnotizers, abusers, predators, Steinerites, Blavatskyites and Waldorf staff are all hairy primates disguised as humans through special costumes designed in the Goetheanum Basement. The Good doctor and his cohorts were wearing such costumes themselves, and all anthros are alien beasts; their blood is probably Vulcan green, and their hearts are located elsewhere in their bodies.... just like Spock.
        >
        > Tarjei
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > So whadaya think about this? Now, not only are doctors coming the understanding that the heart is not a pump, so too do we now have evidence, (again) of humans being a separate line from the animals and that man did not originate from apes. d
        > >  
        > > Fossils radically alter ideas about the look of man's earliest ancestors
        > >
        > >
        > > Analysis of a near-complete skeleton of a human ancestor found in Ethiopia changes scientists' thinking about the appearance and behavior of our distant forebears.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > > This image released today by "Science" shows the probable life appearance in anterior view of Ardipithecus ramidus ("Ardi").
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > > A treasure trove of 4.4-million-year-old fossils from the Ethiopian desert is dramatically overturning widely held ideas about the early evolution of humans and how they came to walk upright, even as it paints a remarkably detailed picture of early life in Africa, researchers reported Thursday.
        > >
        > > The centerpiece of the diverse collection of primate, animal and plant fossils is the near-complete skeleton of a human ancestor that demonstrates our earliest forebears looked nothing like a chimpanzee or other large primate, as is now commonly believed. Instead, the findings suggest that the last common ancestor of humans and primates, which existed nearly 2 million years earlier, was a primitive creature that shared few traits with modern-day members of either group.
        > >
        > > The findings, analyzed in a large group of studies published Thursday in the journal Science, also indicate that our ancestors began walking upright in woodlands, not on grassy savannas as prior generations of researchers had speculated.
        > >
        > > The discovery of the specimen called Ardipithecus ramidus "is one of the most important discoveries for the study of human evolution," said paleoanthropologist David Pilbeam of Harvard University, who was not involved in the research. "The find itself is extraordinary, as were the enormous labors that went into the reconstruction of a skeleton shattered almost beyond repair," he said in an e-mailed statement.
        > >
        > > "It is so rare to get a more or less complete skeleton," said paleoanthropologist Andrew Hill of Yale University. "In the entire course of human evolution, at least until you get to Neanderthals, there are only three to four available. We can always tell so much more from a skeleton" than from the jawbones and skulls that are more commonly found.
        > >
        > > The fossils described in the new studies were found 15 years ago in the Afar Triangle of Ethiopia by a team led by paleoanthropologist Tim White of UC Berkeley. But White and his team have been relatively closemouthed about the fossils, and other researchers -- some of whom have accused him of hoarding the fossils for his own use -- have been eagerly awaiting more information.
        > >
        > > Today, they are getting a surfeit: Eleven papers by 47 authors, and a similar number of short summaries prepared by each paper's authors.
        > >
        > > The fossils were found in a layer of sediment sandwiched between two layers of volcanic ash, each dating from 4.4 million years ago -- indicating that the fossils are also of that age.
        > >
        > > In addition to the nearly complete fossil specimen of the female primate, which investigators have dubbed Ardi, the team found more than 100 fossils from 36 other members of the same species.
        > >
        > > "These fossils are much more important than Lucy," the 3.2-million-year-old specimen of Australopithecus afarensis that was found in the Afar desert in the 1970s, said paleoanthropologist Alan Walker of Pennsylvania State University, who was not involved in the research. "The reason is that when Lucy was found, we already knew the major features of Australopithecus from fossils found in the 1940s. . . . These fossils are of a completely unknown creature, and are much stranger and more primitive than Australopithecus."
        > >
        > > The White team also found fossils of 29 species of birds, primarily small ones like doves, lovebirds, mousebirds, passerines and swifts, as well as several that were previously unknown. Animal fossils included 20 new species of small mammals, including shrews, bats, rodents, hares and small carnivores, as well as larger animals, including baboons, colobus monkeys and spiral-horned antelopes.
        > >
        > > Fossilized wood, seed and other plant remains indicate the presence of hackberry, fig and palm trees. Collectively, these finds indicate that the environment was more humid and cooler than it is today, and contained grassy woodland with forest patches.
        > >
        > > Today, the Afar is a desert. But go back in a time machine and "4.4 million years ago, this was really a different world," White said. "We look up in the trees and we see that they are full of monkeys. We look around on the ground and we see that there are a lot of kudus. And we see an occasional hyena. And we see elephants and we see lots of small mammals."
        > >
        > > This whole collection of data "gives us information we have never had before about human evolution," said paleoanthropologist C. Owen Lovejoy of Kent State University, one of the primary authors of the papers. "The whole savanna theory goes out the window in terms of it being the explanation for upright walking. . . . And the idea that we evolved from something like a chimpanzee also goes out the window."
        > >
        > > Ardi stood about 47 inches tall and probably weighed 110 pounds. Many researchers previously believed that such an early ancestor would, like modern chimps, be a knuckle-walker, using the knuckles for support while moving on all fours. Instead, Ardi appears to have climbed on all fours on branches, but walked upright on the ground. Her feet, like those of monkeys but not chimps, were designed more for propulsion than for grasping.
        > >
        > > Her face had a projecting muzzle, giving her an ape-like appearance, but many features of her skull, such as the ridge above the eye socket, are quite different than those of chimpanzees. Her brain is about the same size as Lucy's.
        > >
        > > Her hands lacked many of the specializations that allow modern-day African apes to swing, hang and easily move through trees. Those specializations apparently evolved in large primates after they separated from the last common ancestor with humans more than 6 million years ago. (Few fossils of such primates are available because they lived primarily in forests, which are not conducive to preservation of bone.)
        > >
        > > The finds "are turning evolution on its head," Lovejoy said.
        > >
        > > The most controversial aspects of the papers involve the authors' -- particularly Lovejoy's -- interpretations of what the fossils say about behavior. Of particular importance, he said, is that the sizes of males and females were about the same, and that the specimens do not have large, sharp canine teeth. Both findings suggest that the fierce, often violent competition among males for females in heat that characterizes gorillas and chimpanzees was absent in Ardipithecus.
        > >
        > > That implies, Lovejoy concluded, that the males were beginning to enter into monogamous relationships with females and devoted more time to caring for their young than did earlier ancestors.
        > >
        > > "This is a restatement of Owen Lovejoy's ideas going back almost three decades, which I found unpersuasive then and still do," Pilbeam said.
        > >
        > > Hill was more blunt, calling Lovejoy's speculation "patent nonsense."
        > >
        > > thomas.maugh@
        > >
        > >
        > > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
        > >
        >




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