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Re: Rudolf Steiner vs Paramhansa Yogananda

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  • jmn36210
    Mean-spiritedness and pettiness ? You don t say! :-) Still from the very same lecture [GA 203 - Dornach, 28 March 1921]: Würde man heute etwa in derselben
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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      "Mean-spiritedness" and "pettiness"?
      You don't say! :-)


      Still from the very same lecture [GA 203 - Dornach, 28 March 1921]:


      "Würde man heute etwa in derselben Weise glauben,  daß die Weisheit  irgendwo
      in Asien umschlossen sei, so würde man damit  nur den Beweis liefern, daß man
      nicht in seiner Zeit, nämlich nicht in der heutigen Zeit lebt. Es gibt ja allerdings
      merkwürdige Leute, die heute noch immer von solchen besonders günstigen Orten
      auf der Erdoberfläche reden; aber diese Dinge sind eben in höherem Sinne,
      im Sinne einer wirklichen Geist-Erkenntnis durchaus dilettantisch zu nennen."

      "If one somewhat similarly believed nowadays that wisdom was enclosed somewhere
      in Asia, one would thus provide proof that one is not living in one's own time, namely
      not in the present time.There are odd people nowadays to be sure, who still talk
      about such propitious places on the surface of the Earth; but these things must be
      called, in the higher sense, in the sense of real spiritual knowledge entirely dilettantish."




      "Nehmen Sie alles dasjenige, was in unserer Literatur steht. Wozu werden denn
      die Menschen kommen, wenn sie nur darauf gehen wollen, das, was in unserer
      Literatur an Begriffen, an Ideen steht, bloß mit dem Intellekt zu umfassen?
      Nur zu holperigen Diskussionen! Sie werden allerlei profane Diskussionen
      anstellen können über dasjenige, was die Geisteswissenschaft sagt."

      "Take everything that one finds in our literature. What will people end up doing
      if they're only willing to grasp the concepts and ideas that one finds in our literature
      with the mere intellect? Nothing but wavering discussions! They will be able to
      start all kinds of profane discussions on what Spiritual Science is saying."



      "(...) weil dasjenige, mit dem wir zu tun haben, allerdings viel zu ernst ist, als daß
      wir etwa weiter fortsetzen könnten dasjenige, was ganz aus den selbstverständlichen
      Untergründen heraus weitere Kreise von Anthroposophen, die am  alten sektiererischen
      Geist solcher Dinge Lust haben, weiter verbreiten. Diese Kreise finden es ja zuweilen
      als das allernatürlichste: Nun ja, seit so und so vielen Zeiten trinken die Menschen Tee,
      haben die Menschen beim Tee geredet - nun ja, lassen wir das weg, über was alles
      die Menschen beim Tee oder Kaffee oder nach dem schwarzen Kaffee am Nachmittag
      geredet haben! Aber warum soll man nicht  einmal auch reden beim Tee oder Kaffee
      von Saturn, Sonne, Mond, warum nicht auch von Wiederverkörperungen, warum soll
      man da nicht sich allerlei ausdenken über dasjenige,  was dieser oder jener Mensch
      in der vorigen Inkarnation gewesen sein könnte! Warum soll man mit anderen Worten,
      nicht etwas Salon-Anthroposophie oder so etwas ähnliches treiben?"

      "(...) because what we are dealing with is much too serious to be sure: as if we could
      carry on with what large circles of anthroposophists quite naturally feel like doing
      in the old sectarian spirit, and keep on spreading.
      Now and again, those circles find it to be perfectly natural: well yes, people have been
      drinking tea and talking at teatime for ages - well yes, let's do without all of what people
      have been talking about at teatime or coffeetime, or after the evening coffee!
      But why shouldn't we, at teatime or coffeetime, talk about Saturn, the Sun, the Moon,
      why not about reincarnations even, why one not imagine [or think up] all sorts of things
      about whom this or that human being could have been in the previous incarnation?
      In other words, why not engage in Tearoom Anthroposophy (or Coffee Shop
      Anthroposophy
      - translator's dilemma :-) or something similar?"



      Jean-Marc

       

       

      ===============================================================


      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, this will be my last post to your meanspiritedness. I noticed it was the same one that you and Kess noted regarding Mr. Heindel at some point but again, its not printed on the archives. And again you fail to mention if this was before and after the Christ,  and now you try to tie this, without any connection whatsoever to Krishna which is who I have been referencing, to Paramahansa. Paramahansa goes back to the Krishna lineage and teaching. And what does Tyre have to do with Paramahansa?
      >  
      > You can respond in the same manner but others will have to see your pettyness because I just dont' have time for men who communicate in this manner any longer.
      >  
      > Take Care,
      > Dottie
      >  
      >
      >
      > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      >
      > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, jmn36210 jmn36210@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: jmn36210 jmn36210@...
      > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Rudolf Steiner vs Paramhansa Yogananda
      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 9:11 PM
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >  
      > Dottie wrote:
      >  
      > "Notice that there might be a 'time difference' as Paramahansa uses the term 'Jesus'
      > and Rudolf Steiner speaks of 'Jesus Christ'."
      >  
      >  
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >  
      >  
      > The fact is that the lecture in question --- which happens to be the very same one
      > from which Kees' quotation about Max Heindel came from, as attentive readers
      > may have noticed --- could very well be entitled:
      >  
      > 'Jesus Christ vs Apollonius of Tyana' :-)
      >  
      >  
      > Rudolf Steiner:
      >  
      > "As a result, Apollonius of Tyana and Jesus Christ are the greatest opposites."
      > [Dadurch sind Apollonius von Tyana und der Christus Jesus die größten Gegensätze.]  
      >  
      > "Jesus of Nazareth and Apollonius of Tyana are the two (opposite) poles of men from
      > the beginning of our (Christian) era."
      > [Jesus von Nazareth und Apollonius von Tyana sind die beiden Pole von Menschen
      > vom Beginne unserer Zeitrechnung.]
      >  
      >  
      > Why are they polar opposites?
      >  
      > Precisely because Apollonius of Tyana became wiser and wiser as he went along,
      > as he traveled widely to faraway lands - such as India - learning from the wisest men
      > of his time --- whereas Jesus of Nazareth / Christ did not travel to far-distant lands
      > [der sein Erdenwandeln auf einem verhältnismäßig kleinen Fleck verbringt] to gather
      > (external) earthly wisdom: what he shared with mankind entirely came from deep inside
      > [ganz aus dem Inneren heraus sagt], came from extraterrestrial (heavenly) worlds
      > [was er aus außerirdischen Welten auf die Erde herabgebracht hat].
      >  
      >  
      > And Rudolf Steiner then declares:
      >  
      >
      > "Now and then, the attempt has been made indeed to credit Jesus Christ as well with
      > all sorts of travels to India; however, that's simply sheer dilettantism."
      >  
      >  
      >  
      > Jean-Marc
      >  
      >  
      >  
      > ==================================================================
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold dottie_z@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Jean Marc, notice the difference in Jesus Christ and Jesus. And please consider to not put 'vs' between these two great teachers. Their teachings don't deserve that.
      > >  
      > > Notice that there might be a 'time difference' as Paramahansa uses the term 'Jesus' and Rudolf Steiner speaks of 'Jesus Christ'. Is Rudolf Steiner, and I can't tell mas you have his stuff bolded and redded, (as if we can't get your meaning, whew, I never could stand that 'leading one through the nose' that just seems like male arrogance, sorry guys), is Rudolf Steiner talking about after the Cruxificion or before. There are many stories as to Jesus not really being crucified and made all kinds of trips through India and so forth. So, can you share with us if it is before the descent of the Christ or after that Rudolf Steiner is speaking about...thanks.
      > >  
      > > All good things,
      > > Dottie
      > >  
      > > All good things,
      > > Dottie
      > >
      > > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      > >
      > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, jmn36210 jmn36210@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: jmn36210 jmn36210@
      > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Rudolf Steiner vs Paramhansa Yogananda
      > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 1:59 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > http://www.yogananda-srf.org/srf_news/latimes2cc2004.html
      > >  
      > > "Later, Jesus traveled to India, where he practiced yoga meditation with the great sages there some time during his "lost years" from age 13 to 30, a time of his life scarcely mentioned in the New Testament.
      > >
      > > As Christians immerse themselves in the Advent season to prepare for Christmas,
      > > such assertions might sound like blasphemy or pure fantasy. But they come from
      > > a renowned Indian guru, the late Paramahansa Yogananda, in a newly published work
      > > that is being praised as the first detailed interpretation of the four Gospels by a Hindu.
      > >
      > > Compiled from decades of Yogananda's speeches and writings, the book is being
      > > published by his Los Angeles-based Self-Realization Fellowship 52 years after his death.
      > >
      > > "The Second Coming of Christ: The Resurrection of Christ Within You," offers startling
      > > ideas about the deeper meaning of Jesus' teachings and their essential unity with yoga,
      > > one of the world's oldest and most systematic religious paths to achieving oneness with God."
      > >  
      > >  
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >  
      > >  
      > >  
      > > Rudolf Steiner [GA 203 - Dornach, 28 March 1921]:
      > >  
      > > "Now and then, the attempt has been made indeed to credit Jesus Christ as well with
      > > all sorts of travels to India; however, that's simply sheer dilettantism."
      > >  
      > > [Es ist ja manchmal sogar der Versuch gemacht  worden,  auch dem Christus Jesus
      > > allerlei Reisen nach Indien zuzuschreiben,  allein das ist ja der purste  Dilettantismus.]
      > >  
      > >  
      > >  
      > >  
      > > Jean-Marc
      > >  
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      >

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