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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Body of Christ

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  • Tarjei Straume
    ... Are you saying that a shorter time than centuries - i.e. the equivalent of time elapsed between birth and death - is the time now spent in the spiritual
    Message 1 of 85 , Dec 1, 2003
      At 11:35 26.11.2003, Rick wrote:

      >Reincarnation used to take centuries before one returned to an earthly
      >life. Steiner had mentioned that in these times the influence of Ahriman
      >has a way of rushing the human soul/spirit back to earth for another
      >earthly incarnation.

      Are you saying that a shorter time than 'centuries' - i.e. the equivalent
      of time elapsed between birth and death - is the time now spent in the
      spiritual world by normal people like you and me? To me, that seems highly
      unlikely, although popular New Age literature has been presenting
      reincanation as if it's a matter of jumping in and out of bodies. And the
      curious thing is that some people who have undergone past life regression
      actually remember jumping in and out of bodies like that.

      It's true that Ahriman seeks to reduce the amount of time spent between
      death and rebirth, because he wants people to remember as little as
      possible, preferably nothing, of the spiritual world. And he does succeed
      with those who are heavily influenced by him. Take into consideration a
      full mature life reaching an age between 70 and 90, and the subsequent
      journey through kamaloka (purgatory), the Zodiac, the planetary spheres and
      the hierarchies and so on, plus the search for the most suitable parents
      etc. To the best of my recollection, Helena Blavatsky is talking about 600
      years here, and I believe RS is corroborating a minimum of 300 years, at
      least in the case of people reaching old age. Initiates and avatars may be
      exceptions here, especially when they are needed on the physical plane for
      specific tasks, but in the case of normal people, it is a hindrance to be
      cut short on the spiritual journey between incarnations like that.

      It's possible, of course, that the number of people whose existence on the
      other side is cut off by Ahriman is on the rise as Ahriman's incarnation is
      approaching and his influence increasing. But most of those affected by
      this, I believe, are our notorious troublemakers: War criminals and similar
      amoral individuals, carriers of the Sorath stream, cold-blooded
      bureaucrats, the makers of weapons of mass destruction in the Pentagon and
      elsewhere, child exploiters. RS once said that criminals sleep so well
      because they have no conscience, and I seem to recall that this has
      something to do with being unconscious between death and rebirth,
      remembering nothing of it, and coming back at record speed.

      So all I can say that if there are many people spending less than centuries
      between incarnations today, I certainly hope I'm not among them. I want my
      half millennium this time too, hopefully skipping Ahriman's incarnation.
      (I'll help clean up after he's been here.)


    • Richard Distasi
      Tarjei, I wish I could locate the quote from Steiner in which he said that because of the ahrimanic impulses that weave through human souls today that the time
      Message 85 of 85 , Dec 16, 2003
        I wish I could locate the quote from Steiner in which he said that because of the ahrimanic impulses that weave through human souls today that the time spent between incarnations is much shorter now. It may be from, "The Ahrimanic Deception" lecture. Not only are initiates returning sooner and I believe that because of their advanced state they were always able to do so but also everyone has a stronger and more developed Ego than what was the case centuries and millennia ago. The need to spend centuries in the spiritual world in times past was necessary because the Ego was much weaker than it is now for most people. Also the time spent in the spiritual world was often in a condition in which it was asleep. The bible has several references to the dead in which it refers to the dead as those who are in sleep. And these books were written during their times which were two thousand years ago and more. The Ego would return to the earth when either physical conditions changed dramatically or in the post Atlantean Period when the cultural change would be a factor. The world is culturally changing more rapidly now than ever before. Look back to the early years of the 20th. century and now to the present. It is almost two different worlds. To be present at the beginning of the 20th. century and not reincarnate again until centuries into the future would be a great loss for the human soul/Ego. You can't gain in the spiritual world what can only be gained here on earth.
        I don't feel that the dynamics of reincarnation are stagnate but rather they are ever in flux and flow with the dynamics of human evolution. Spending centuries in the spiritual world between incarnations is a thing of the past. Steiner may point out that the human Ego follows generations of people here on earth before it reincarnates. But let's be realistic in what we see about us in the world today. Since W.W.II the world has experienced a tremendous population explosion and I simply cannot accept that we all now spend centuries following a bloodline in which we then incarnate. This may still hold true for those who have a very special role to play in human evolution and that they need to incarnate into very special conditions but for the most part I think we incarnate when we are ready and we take on an incarnation that is closest to what would fit our destiny. I don't think that it is as precise and exact as many occultists espouse though this would be the ideal rather than the actual reality anymore.
        rick distasi
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 4:40 AM
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Reincarnations (Body of Christ)

        At 15:35 01.12.2003, Rick wrote:

        >Tarjei wrote:
        >"Are you saying that a shorter time than 'centuries' - i.e. the equivalent
        >of time elapsed between birth and death - is the time now spent in the
        >spiritual world by normal people like you and me?"
        >Yes, that's what I am trying to say. Didn't Steiner mention that the souls
        >that were first involved in the early years of the Anthroposophical
        >Movement would be reincarnating again in the second half of the 20th.
        >century.? I thought that I had read that somewhere.

        "Those who were to work towards a real development of Christianity - souls
        not at the moment incarnated on the earth, and also other spiritual beings
        - were gathered in great numbers around Michael, from the fourteenth to the
        sixteenth century, as though in a great, supersensible school in which
        those souls were being prepared who were to appear on earth at the
        beginning of the twentieth century during Michael's regency. When we look
        at what was being prepared there we find that it was the anthroposophical
        world view, which wants to work for this evolution.

        "From what the ancient Mystery wisdom saw, and through the prophetic sight
        of future Mystery wisdom, we gather that human beings who take in what we
        call the inner Christianity, the spiritualized Christianity, those who look
        to the Genius of the Sun with regard to Christ: these indivivuals will
        experience an acceleration of their evolution and reappear on the earth
        again at the end of the twentieth century."

        "The Book of Revelation and the Work of the Priest" (GA 346) lecture 8,
        Dornach 12 Sept 1924.

        It seems to me that we're still talking minimum 300 years between
        incarnations here. Exceptions to the rule are avatars and initiates, plus
        those on the opposite scale who are savages of sorts.


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