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Jacques Molay

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  • dottie zold
      Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
        Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
       
      So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons has not only a 100 years difference to the year of Jeanne's birth, but also the same location as to their ashes, as well as Archangel Michael in the middle and a river whose name is Sacred River.
       
      But I guess more importantly I have been wanting to understand, and well, I guess I now do more the before, how Erenfried Pheiffer could say that had Jeanne lived she would have ushered in the Threefold Social Order during her time. It's the very last thing he says in his Heart Lectures book.
       
      Now if we look at who brought the downfall of Jacques we are looking at Philip the Fair who had the very great issue of money, it is what drove him. It was he who instigated, and for money, the death and tortuous confessions of the Templars.
       
      And just like Jeanne, he denied his confessions and for this was finally burnt at the stake. 
       
      And, karma, it seems to me that sometimes certain incarnations do not give us an opportunity to heal or reengage certain elements that need to be addressed...sometimes one has to wait for another life to have these things addressed....and it also seems to me that for, Christian initiates, such as Molay and also Jeanne of Arc, just looking at those two, they would want to come back and meet and transform the karma of what had taken place in another life...as two good Christians as these, it would seem to me that they would look to also help heal, or be a part of the healing, if the other former adversarial personality is working to transform their former actions and move forward towards the Christic principle and the evolutionary principle of Love in the world, the others who had brought about their death....this to me is working with a worldly karma versus a personal karma per se...especially if as Manicheans they take the evil unto themselves and have to deal with this and transform this in a future incarnation...
       
      So, .....well, that's what I was inspired to look for this morning.
       
      All good things,
      Dottie
       
       
      Jacques de Molay (est. 1244–5/1249–50 – 18 March 1314[1]) was the 23rd and officially last Grand Master of the Knights Templar, leading the Order from approximately 1292 until the Order was dissolved by order of the Pope in 1312.[2] He is probably the best known Templar, along with the Order's founder and first Grand Master, Hugues de Payens (1070-1136). His goal as Grand Master was to reform the Order, and adjust it to the situation in the Holy Land during the waning days of the Crusades[citation needed]. With no crusader states remaining to protect, and with other problems surfacing, the right of the Order to exist had come into question. King Philip IV of France, deeply in debt to the organization, had De Molay and many other French Templars arrested in 1307 and tortured into making what is generally believed to have been mainly false confessions[citation needed]. When De Molay later retracted his confession[citation needed], Philip had him burned at the stake on the Île des juifs,next to the Ile de la cite an island in the Seine river in Paris, on 18 March 1314.
       
       
      Philip IV (the Fair):
       
      Philip IV (April–June 1268 – 29 November 1314), called the Fair (French: le Bel), son and successor of Philip III, reigned as King of France from 1285 until his death. He was the husband of Joan I of Navarre, by virtue of which he was King of Navarre (as Philip I) and Count of Champagne from 1284 to 1305. The nickname Philip "the Fair" or "the Handsome" comes from his appearance; it had nothing to do with his actions as king.
       
       
      Jeanne of Arc:
       
      Saint Joan of Arc (French: Jeanne d'Arc;[1] ca. 1412[2] – 30 May 1431) is a national heroine of France and a Catholic saint. A peasant girl born in eastern France, she led the French army to several important victories during the Hundred Years' War, claiming divine guidance, and was indirectly responsible for the coronation of Charles VII. She was captured by the Burgundians, sold to the English, tried by an ecclesiastical court, and burned at the stake when she was nineteen years old.[3] Twenty-four years later, on the initiative of Charles VII, who could not possibly afford being seen as having been brought to power with the aid of a condemned heretic, Pope Callixtus III reviewed the decision of the ecclesiastical court, found her innocent, and declared her a martyr.[3] She was beatified in 1909 and canonized in 1920.[2] She is, along with St. Denis and St. Theresa of Lisieux, one of three patron saints of France.
      Joan asserted that she had visions from God that told her to recover her homeland from English domination late in the Hundred Years' War. The uncrowned King Charles VII sent her to the siege at Orléans as part of a relief mission. She gained prominence when she overcame the dismissive attitude of veteran commanders and lifted the siege in only nine days. Several more swift victories led to Charles VII's coronation at Reims and settled the disputed succession to the throne.
       
      Siene River (Jacques Molay was burned on an island in this river:
       
      Legend has it that after Joan of Arc was burned at the stake in 1431, her ashes were thrown into the Seine, though counter-claims persist into the present-day.[11]
      According to his will, Napoleon, who died in 1821, wished to be buried on the banks of the Seine, a request that was not granted.
      In January 1910, the Seine flooded 20 feet above normal, drowning streets throughout the city of Paris and sending thousands of Parisians fleeing to emergency shelters. The 1910 Great Flood of Paris was the worst the city had seen since 1658 when the water reached only a few centimeters higher.
       
      Pont Saint-Michel:
       
      Pont Saint-Michel is a bridge linking the Place Saint-Michel on the left bank of the river Seine to the Île de la Cité. It was named after the nearby chapel of Saint-Michel. It is near Sainte Chapelle and the Palais de Justice. The present 62-metre-long bridge dates to 1857.
       

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

    • dottie zold
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Vreede   After the War, Rudolf Steiner developed his idea of the threefold social order and she too an intense
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
         
        "After the War, Rudolf Steiner developed his idea of the threefold social order and she too an intense interest in this initiative and work. She was the first to bring this idea of a threefold social order to England. Around 1918 Vreede began to construct the library and archive at the Goetheanum. She purchased using her own means the very expensive lecture transcripts as soon as they were typed from the stenogram. Occasionally friends contributed to her efforts to build an archive.
        In 1920 she moved to Arlesheim where she had built for herself her own little house. It was the second dwelling-house for which Rudolf Steiner himself had given the model in 1919 (see Erich Zimmer, Rudolf Steiner als Architekt von Wohn- und Zweckbauten, p. 105 ff., Verlag Freies Geistesleben, Stuttgart 1971)."
        Dottie: If Ms. Vreede was 'incarnated out of time' as Rudolf Steiner shares, then I think we might have to look for her last death, before the Vreede personality....d

        If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

      • Cheese Curve
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com From: dottie_z@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:18:31 -0700 Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay Okay
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009

           

          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          From: dottie_z@...
          Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:18:31 -0700
          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

           
            Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
           
          Kees asks: did you notice some mails ago that Steiner said that CR was his initiator and lived at that same moment as Steiner?
          and that CR is the same as St. Germain?
           
          So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons
           
          Kees asks: freemasons or templars?
           
          has not only a 100 years difference to the year of Jeanne's birth, but also the same location as to their ashes, as well as Archangel Michael in the middle and a river whose name is Sacred River.
           
          But I guess more importantly I have been wanting to understand, and well, I guess I now do more the before, how Erenfried Pheiffer could say that had Jeanne lived she would have ushered in the Threefold Social Order during her time. It's the very last thing he says in his Heart Lectures book.
           
          Now if we look at who brought the downfall of Jacques we are looking at Philip the Fair who had the very great issue of money, it is what drove him. It was he who instigated, and for money, the death and tortuous confessions of the Templars.
           
          And just like Jeanne, he denied his confessions and for this was finally burnt at the stake. 
           
          And, karma, it seems to me that sometimes certain incarnations do not give us an opportunity to heal or reengage certain elements that need to be addressed... sometimes one has to wait for another life to have these things addressed... .and it also seems to me that for, Christian initiates, such as Molay and also Jeanne of Arc, just looking at those two, they would want to come back and meet and transform the karma of what had taken place in another life...as two good Christians as these, it would seem to me that they would look to also help heal, or be a part of the healing, if the other former adversarial personality is working to transform their former actions and move forward towards the Christic principle and the evolutionary principle of Love in the world, the others who had brought about their death....this to me is working with a worldly karma versus a personal karma per se...especially if as Manicheans they take the evil unto themselves and have to deal with this and transform this in a future incarnation. ..
           
          So, .....well, that's what I was inspired to look for this morning.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie
           
           
          Jacques de Molay (est. 1244–5/1249–50 – 18 March 1314[1]) was the 23rd and officially last Grand Master of the Knights Templar, leading the Order from approximately 1292 until the Order was dissolved by order of the Pope in 1312.[2] He is probably the best known Templar, along with the Order's founder and first Grand Master, Hugues de Payens (1070-1136). His goal as Grand Master was to reform the Order, and adjust it to the situation in the Holy Land during the waning days of the Crusades[citation needed]. With no crusader states remaining to protect, and with other problems surfacing, the right of the Order to exist had come into question. King Philip IV of France, deeply in debt to the organization, had De Molay and many other French Templars arrested in 1307 and tortured into making what is generally believed to have been mainly false confessions[citation needed]. When De Molay later retracted his confession[citation needed], Philip had him burned at the stake on the Île des juifs,next to the Ile de la cite an island in the Seine river in Paris, on 18 March 1314.
           
           
          Philip IV (the Fair):
           
          Philip IV (April–June 1268 – 29 November 1314), called the Fair (French: le Bel), son and successor of Philip III, reigned as King of France from 1285 until his death. He was the husband of Joan I of Navarre, by virtue of which he was King of Navarre (as Philip I) and Count of Champagne from 1284 to 1305. The nickname Philip "the Fair" or "the Handsome" comes from his appearance; it had nothing to do with his actions as king.
           
           
          Jeanne of Arc:
           
          Saint Joan of Arc (French: Jeanne d'Arc;[1] ca. 1412[2] – 30 May 1431) is a national heroine of France and a Catholic saint. A peasant girl born in eastern France, she led the French army to several important victories during the Hundred Years' War, claiming divine guidance, and was indirectly responsible for the coronation of Charles VII. She was captured by the Burgundians, sold to the English, tried by an ecclesiastical court, and burned at the stake when she was nineteen years old.[3] Twenty-four years later, on the initiative of Charles VII, who could not possibly afford being seen as having been brought to power with the aid of a condemned heretic, Pope Callixtus III reviewed the decision of the ecclesiastical court, found her innocent, and declared her a martyr.[3] She was beatified in 1909 and canonized in 1920.[2] She is, along with St. Denis and St. Theresa of Lisieux, one of three patron saints of France.
          Joan asserted that she had visions from God that told her to recover her homeland from English domination late in the Hundred Years' War. The uncrowned King Charles VII sent her to the siege at Orléans as part of a relief mission. She gained prominence when she overcame the dismissive attitude of veteran commanders and lifted the siege in only nine days. Several more swift victories led to Charles VII's coronation at Reims and settled the disputed succession to the throne.
           
          Siene River (Jacques Molay was burned on an island in this river:
           
          Legend has it that after Joan of Arc was burned at the stake in 1431, her ashes were thrown into the Seine, though counter-claims persist into the present-day.[11]
          According to his will, Napoleon, who died in 1821, wished to be buried on the banks of the Seine, a request that was not granted.
          In January 1910, the Seine flooded 20 feet above normal, drowning streets throughout the city of Paris and sending thousands of Parisians fleeing to emergency shelters. The 1910 Great Flood of Paris was the worst the city had seen since 1658 when the water reached only a few centimeters higher.
           
          Pont Saint-Michel:
           
          Pont Saint-Michel is a bridge linking the Place Saint-Michel on the left bank of the river Seine to the Île de la Cité. It was named after the nearby chapel of Saint-Michel. It is near Sainte Chapelle and the Palais de Justice. The present 62-metre-long bridge dates to 1857.
           

          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




          Minder SPAM in de verbeterde Windows Live Hotmail
        • dottie zold
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation   Who is Florence Nightingale? d If there is
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
             
             
            Who is Florence Nightingale? d

            "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

          • dottie zold
            Dottie: Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
              Dottie:
              Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
               
              Kees:
              Kees asks: did you notice some mails ago that Steiner said that CR was his initiator and lived at that same moment as Steiner?
              and that CR is the same as St. Germain?
               
              Dottie: Kees, I have always held it was St. Germain but was ridiculed for that. So, although I might have noticed it a few days back I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that. However what has to be taken in consideration is the idea that someone on the Vorstand says it was not an actual incarnation but an 'aspect'. As I considered that I found a possibility as Count Saint Germain working within Christian at the point where he dies and is resurrrected, that possibly Saint Germain unites with him to affect the final point where life can begin again for Christian.
               
              Dottie:
              So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons
               
              Kees:
              Kees asks: freemasons or templars?

              Dottie: Way my mistake, it was the Templars, I can't even believe I am looking at that word Freemasons right now, that's incredible to me....and then that has me to wonder to check a thing as well about the Freemasons....
               
              d
              "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

            • Kees hotmail
              I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn t think that you offered a direct quote
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009

                I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that.

                K:OK now I understand your way of debating(;-),

                next text in german

                 

                Der Graf von Saint-Germain ist im 18. Jahrhundert die exoterische Wiederverkörperung

                von Christian Rosenkreuz gewesen. Nur wurde dieser Name auch anderen

                Personen beigelegt, so daß nicht alles, was in der äußeren Welt da oder dort über

                den Grafen von Saint-Germain gesagt wird, auch für den wirklichen Christian Rosenkreuz

                gelten kann. Heute (1911) ist er wiederverkörpert. GA130.66f

                 
                I woke up this morning and thought by myself how much questions can Dottie create in this list, each morning new items
                and next question what is she gone to do with eventually answers? das it change her life really?
                and next question how serious is she really in asking about deep themes from the esoteric in such an associativ way?
                I fall asleep again for a while and woke up again
                i saw a lonely woman writing in this list as timesharing
                 
                and I thought can I  write this in this list, isnt it perhaps to painfull?
                but I thought, I am an outsider not english speaking
                perhaps I may be for a little while a mirror
                 
                bye and greetings Kees


                Van: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] Namens dottie zold
                Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2009 16:59
                Aan: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Onderwerp: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

                 

                Dottie:
                Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
                 
                Kees:
                Kees asks: did you notice some mails ago that Steiner said that CR was his initiator and lived at that same moment as Steiner?
                and that CR is the same as St. Germain?
                 
                Dottie: Kees, I have always held it was St. Germain but was ridiculed for that. So, although I might have noticed it a few days back I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that. However what has to be taken in consideration is the idea that someone on the Vorstand says it was not an actual incarnation but an 'aspect'. As I considered that I found a possibility as Count Saint Germain working within Christian at the point where he dies and is resurrrected, that possibly Saint Germain unites with him to affect the final point where life can begin again for Christian.
                 
                Dottie:
                So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons
                 
                Kees:
                Kees asks: freemasons or templars?

                Dottie: Way my mistake, it was the Templars, I can't even believe I am looking at that word Freemasons right now, that's incredible to me....and then that has me to wonder to check a thing as well about the Freemasons.. ..
                 
                d
                "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

              • dottie zold
                Oh boy, thanks Kees. I guess questions are an issue, I m not looking for debates nor charts, I m looking for those who have done research and not just read
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
                  Oh boy, thanks Kees. I guess questions are an issue, I'm not looking for debates nor charts, I'm looking for those who have done research and not just read Rudolf Steiner's words. Thanks though, d

                  "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                • dottie zold
                  Kees, what is the date of the GA 130? There are quite a few under this heading and I don t have the time to go through all of them...d If there is something
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
                    Kees, what is the date of the GA 130? There are quite a few under this heading and I don't have the time to go through all of them...d

                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                    --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Kees hotmail <K_Kromme@...> wrote:

                    From: Kees hotmail <K_Kromme@...>
                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay
                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:55 PM



                    I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that.

                    K:OK now I understand your way of debating(;-),

                    next text in german

                     

                    Der Graf von Saint-Germain ist im 18. Jahrhundert die exoterische Wiederverkörperung

                    von Christian Rosenkreuz gewesen. Nur wurde dieser Name auch anderen

                    Personen beigelegt, so daß nicht alles, was in der äußeren Welt da oder dort über

                    den Grafen von Saint-Germain gesagt wird, auch für den wirklichen Christian Rosenkreuz

                    gelten kann. Heute (1911) ist er wiederverkörpert. GA130.66f
                     
                    I woke up this morning and thought by myself how much questions can Dottie create in this list, each morning new items
                    and next question what is she gone to do with eventually answers? das it change her life really?
                    and next question how serious is she really in asking about deep themes from the esoteric in such an associativ way?
                    I fall asleep again for a while and woke up again
                    i saw a lonely woman writing in this list as timesharing
                     
                    and I thought can I  write this in this list, isnt it perhaps to painfull?
                    but I thought, I am an outsider not english speaking
                    perhaps I may be for a little while a mirror
                     
                    bye and greetings Kees


                    Van: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups..com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] Namens dottie zold
                    Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2009 16:59
                    Aan: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Onderwerp: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

                     
                    Dottie:
                    Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
                     
                    Kees:
                    Kees asks: did you notice some mails ago that Steiner said that CR was his initiator and lived at that same moment as Steiner?
                    and that CR is the same as St. Germain?
                     
                    Dottie: Kees, I have always held it was St. Germain but was ridiculed for that. So, although I might have noticed it a few days back I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that. However what has to be taken in consideration is the idea that someone on the Vorstand says it was not an actual incarnation but an 'aspect'. As I considered that I found a possibility as Count Saint Germain working within Christian at the point where he dies and is resurrrected, that possibly Saint Germain unites with him to affect the final point where life can begin again for Christian.
                     
                    Dottie:
                    So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons
                     
                    Kees:
                    Kees asks: freemasons or templars?

                    Dottie: Way my mistake, it was the Templars, I can't even believe I am looking at that word Freemasons right now, that's incredible to me....and then that has me to wonder to check a thing as well about the Freemasons.. ..
                     
                    d
                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




                  • dottie zold
                    Dottie:Okay, now I do not know if this is the same quote you have in German although this looks a little longer...in any case there is that quote...I
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
                      Dottie:Okay, now I do not know if this is the same quote you have in German although this looks a little longer...in any case there is that quote...I understood that but as someone has mentioned from the Vorstand, and it is repeated everytime I say Count Saint Germain was an incarnation of Christian' that he wasn't an actual reincarnation but an 'aspect' of I have decided to keep that open and look to understand what could be meant by that. (for those that know I read Sergei's work, it isn't him)....
                       
                      Now, Kees, the quote I was interested in knowing more about was the one you said that Rudolf Steiner said he was initiated by two....oh, okay, so you are including Count Saint Germain as Christian Rosenkrutz so that's how you are including the comment that Rudolf Steiner said Count Saint Germain was one of his iniators? I asked for the quote that speaks to that point  you brought up: Rudolf Steiner said he was initiated by Count Saint Germain and Master Jesus....is the quote in German referring to this specifically?
                       
                       
                      "The Count of Saint Germain was the exoteric reincarnation of Christian Rosenkreutz in the eighteenth century. 31 ) This name was given to other people, too, however; therefore not everything that is told about Count Saint Germain here and there in the outside world applies to the real Christian Rosenkreutz. Christian Rosenkreutz is incarnated again today. The inspiration for the work of H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled, came from the strength radiating from his etheric body. It was also Christian Rosenkreutz's influence working invisibly on Lessing 32 ) that inspired him to write The Education of the Human Race (1780). Because of the rising tide of materialism it became more and more difficult for inspiration to come about in the rosicrucian way. Then in the nineteenth century came the high tide of materialism. Many things could only be given very incompletely. In 1851 the problem of the immortality of the soul was solved by Widenmann 33 ) through the idea of reincarnation. His text was awarded a prize. Even around 1850 Drossbach 34 ) wrote from a psychological point of view in favour of reincarnation"

                      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                      --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Kees hotmail <K_Kromme@...> wrote:

                      From: Kees hotmail <K_Kromme@...>
                      Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay
                      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:55 PM



                      I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that.

                      K:OK now I understand your way of debating(;-),

                      next text in german

                       

                      Der Graf von Saint-Germain ist im 18. Jahrhundert die exoterische Wiederverkörperung

                      von Christian Rosenkreuz gewesen. Nur wurde dieser Name auch anderen

                      Personen beigelegt, so daß nicht alles, was in der äußeren Welt da oder dort über

                      den Grafen von Saint-Germain gesagt wird, auch für den wirklichen Christian Rosenkreuz

                      gelten kann. Heute (1911) ist er wiederverkörpert. GA130.66f
                       
                      I woke up this morning and thought by myself how much questions can Dottie create in this list, each morning new items
                      and next question what is she gone to do with eventually answers? das it change her life really?
                      and next question how serious is she really in asking about deep themes from the esoteric in such an associativ way?
                      I fall asleep again for a while and woke up again
                      i saw a lonely woman writing in this list as timesharing
                       
                      and I thought can I  write this in this list, isnt it perhaps to painfull?
                      but I thought, I am an outsider not english speaking
                      perhaps I may be for a little while a mirror
                       
                      bye and greetings Kees


                      Van: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] Namens dottie zold
                      Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2009 16:59
                      Aan: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      Onderwerp: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

                       
                      Dottie:
                      Okay friends, I woke up this morning with a thought towards a former member of the Vorstand who had died.....and because I had heard of some consideration of her past personality I guess for some reason I had cause to look at Jeanne of Arc. And I was surprised, really surprised by what I found and it is in a similar vein of certain personalities who incarnate within 100 years and has a very similar feel as the one between Count Saint Germain and Rudolf Steiner in that Rudolf Steiner's birth was a hundred years to the year of a noted death of Saint Germain....
                       
                      Kees:
                      Kees asks: did you notice some mails ago that Steiner said that CR was his initiator and lived at that same moment as Steiner?
                      and that CR is the same as St. Germain?
                       
                      Dottie: Kees, I have always held it was St. Germain but was ridiculed for that. So, although I might have noticed it a few days back I have seen no statements by Rudolf Steiner that say that specifically. Do you have one by Dr. Steiner? I guess I didn't think that you offered a direct quote unless you are saying Christian Rosenkrutz and Count Saint Germain are one and in that case yes I saw that. However what has to be taken in consideration is the idea that someone on the Vorstand says it was not an actual incarnation but an 'aspect'. As I considered that I found a possibility as Count Saint Germain working within Christian at the point where he dies and is resurrrected, that possibly Saint Germain unites with him to affect the final point where life can begin again for Christian.
                       
                      Dottie:
                      So, I found it interesting when I started looking for something this morning from an inspiration but a definitely 'oh no', I found that Jacques Molay, leader of the Freemasons
                       
                      Kees:
                      Kees asks: freemasons or templars?

                      Dottie: Way my mistake, it was the Templars, I can't even believe I am looking at that word Freemasons right now, that's incredible to me....and then that has me to wonder to check a thing as well about the Freemasons.. ..
                       
                      d
                      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




                    • dottie zold
                      Okay Kees, babblefish or something translated it for me and yes it is basically the same quote below but I left in a few more sentences...Good. Now, the quote
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 10, 2009
                        Okay Kees, babblefish or something translated it for me and yes it is basically the same quote below but I left in a few more sentences...Good. Now, the quote I am looking for, or the reference I am looking for is that Count Saint Germain initiated Steiner along with Master Jesus....and I am imagining like I said that you are putting Count Saint Germain and Christian Rosenkrutz as one....ohhhhhhh
                         
                        Oh,  maybe the 'aspect' part of the comment is that he has one of the bodies, astral or whatever, of Christian, maybe that's it....that he's not actually Christian Rosenkreutz but has part of his spirit makeup...and in that case we could not say that Count Saint Germain initiated Steiner as did Master Jesus....it would have to mean Christian Rosenkruetz....it wouldn't be right to say it was Count Saint Germain account the fact that he was an 'aspect' of...although I do not know this to be true about the aspect part but I can understand why this other group of people are claining its not Count Saint Germain who initiated Steiner....that's kinda interesting and makes more sense to me although I am not sure they are correct.. d
                         
                         
                        "The Count of Saint Germain was the exoteric reincarnation of Christian Rosenkreutz in the eighteenth century. 31 ) This name was given to other people, too, however; therefore not everything that is told about Count Saint Germain here and there in the outside world applies to the real Christian Rosenkreutz. Christian Rosenkreutz is incarnated again today. The inspiration for the work of H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled, came from the strength radiating from his etheric body. It was also Christian Rosenkreutz's influence working invisibly on Lessing 32 ) that inspired him to write The Education of the Human Race (1780). Because of the rising tide of materialism it became more and more difficult for inspiration to come about in the rosicrucian way. Then in the nineteenth century came the high tide of materialism. Many things could only be given very incompletely. In 1851 the problem of the immortality of the soul was solved by Widenmann 33 ) through the idea of reincarnation. His text was awarded a prize. Even around 1850 Drossbach 34 ) wrote from a psychological point of view in favour of reincarnation"

                        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                      • Cheese Curve
                        D:Now, Kees, the quote I was interested in knowing more about was the one you said that Rudolf Steiner said he was initiated by two....oh, okay, so you are
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                          D:Now, Kees, the quote I was interested in knowing more about was the one you said that Rudolf Steiner said he was initiated by two....oh, okay, so you are including Count Saint Germain as Christian Rosenkrutz so that's how you are including the comment that Rudolf Steiner said Count Saint Germain was one of his iniators? I asked for the quote that speaks to that point  you brought up: Rudolf Steiner said he was initiated by Count Saint Germain and Master Jesus....is the quote in German referring to this specifically?
                           
                          K:your own answer earlier can bring you further:
                           
                          D:I will check out the chapter in East and West.
                           
                          gr. Kees
                           

                          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                          From: dottie_z@...
                          Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:25:20 -0700
                          Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

                           
                           
                          .



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                        • Cheese Curve
                          for the -aspect -question you can research Johan Valentin Andrea in relation to CR gr. Kees To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com From: dottie_z@yahoo.com
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                            for the -aspect -question you can research Johan Valentin Andrea in relation to CR
                            gr. Kees
                             

                            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                            From: dottie_z@...
                            Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:32:58 -0700
                            Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jacques Molay

                             
                            Okay Kees, babblefish or something translated it for me and yes it is basically the same quote below but I left in a few more sentences... Good. Now, the quote I am looking for, or the reference I am looking for is that Count Saint Germain initiated Steiner along with Master Jesus....and I am imagining like I said that you are putting Count Saint Germain and Christian Rosenkrutz as one....ohhhhhhh
                             
                            Oh,  maybe the 'aspect' part of the comment is that he has one of the bodies, astral or whatever, of Christian, maybe that's it....that he's not actually Christian Rosenkreutz but has part of his spirit makeup...and in that case we could not say that Count Saint Germain initiated Steiner as did Master Jesus....it would have to mean Christian Rosenkruetz. ...it wouldn't be right to say it was Count Saint Germain account the fact that he was an 'aspect' of...although I do not know this to be true about the aspect part but I can understand why this other group of people are claining its not Count Saint Germain who initiated Steiner....that' s kinda interesting and makes more sense to me although I am not sure they are correct.. d
                             
                             
                            "The Count of Saint Germain was the exoteric reincarnation of Christian Rosenkreutz in the eighteenth century. 31 ) This name was given to other people, too, however; therefore not everything that is told about Count Saint Germain here and there in the outside world applies to the real Christian Rosenkreutz. Christian Rosenkreutz is incarnated again today. The inspiration for the work of H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled, came from the strength radiating from his etheric body. It was also Christian Rosenkreutz' s influence working invisibly on Lessing 32 ) that inspired him to write The Education of the Human Race (1780). Because of the rising tide of materialism it became more and more difficult for inspiration to come about in the rosicrucian way. Then in the nineteenth century came the high tide of materialism. Many things could only be given very incompletely. In 1851 the problem of the immortality of the soul was solved by Widenmann 33 ) through the idea of reincarnation. His text was awarded a prize. Even around 1850 Drossbach 34 ) wrote from a psychological point of view in favour of reincarnation"

                            "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




                            Minder SPAM in de verbeterde Windows Live Hotmail
                          • Cheese Curve
                            another source Das Mysterium der Rosenkreuzer . Voordracht te Berlijn, 4 november 1904 in G.A. 93: Die Tempellegende und die Goldene Legende … . dont know
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                              another source
                              "Das Mysterium der Rosenkreuzer". Voordracht te Berlijn, 4 november 1904 in G.A. 93: "Die Tempellegende und die Goldene Legende …".

                               dont know if in english translated
                               
                              gr. Kees



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                            • Cheese Curve
                              german: Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d Adhemar, eine Persönlichkeit, die alle
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                german:
                                 

                                Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d'Adhemar, eine Persönlichkeit, die alle wichtigen Szenen der Revolution voraussagte, um davor zu warnen. Es war der Graf von Saint-Germain, dieselbe Persönlichkeit, die in früherer Inkarnation den Orden der Rosenkreuzer gestiftet hat. Er vertrat damals den Standpunkt: die Menschen müßten in ruhiger Weise von der weltlichen Kultur zu der wahren Kultur des Christentums geführt werden. Die weltlichen Mächte wollten sich aber die Freiheit im Sturm, in materieller Weise erobern. Zwar sah er die Revolution als notwendige Konsequenz an, aber er warnte doch davor. Er, Christian Rosenkreutz, in der Inkarnation vom 18. Jahrhundert, als Hüter des innersten Geheimnisses vom Ehernen Meer und vom heiligen Goldenen Dreieck, trat warnend auf: die Menschheit sollte sich langsam entwickeln. Doch schaute er, was vor sich gehen würde.


                                 

                                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                From: K_Kromme@...
                                Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:31:02 +0200
                                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] RS CR gstG

                                 
                                another source
                                "Das Mysterium der Rosenkreuzer". Voordracht te Berlijn, 4 november 1904 in G.A. 93: "Die Tempellegende und die Goldene Legende …".

                                 dont know if in english translated
                                 
                                gr. Kees



                                Deel je favoriete foto's online met Windows Live Photos




                                Deel je favoriete foto's online met Windows Live Photos
                              • dottie zold
                                Okay Kees, here s what I have translateed at babblefish:   Before the French revolution appeared to the queen with a yard lady Marie Antoinette, the madame d
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                  Okay Kees, here's what I have translateed at babblefish:
                                   
                                  Before the French revolution appeared to the queen with a yard lady Marie Antoinette, the madame d' Adhemar, a personality, that forecast all important scenes of the revolution, in order to warn before it. It was the count von Saint Germain, the same personality, that donated in earlier Inkarnation the medal of the rose cruisers. It held at that time the point of view: humans would have to be led in calm way from the worldly culture to the true culture of the Christianity. Worldly powers wanted to capture however the freedom in the storm, in material way. It regarded the revolution as necessary consequence, but it warned nevertheless before it. It, Christian Rosenkreutz, in the Inkarnation of 18. Century, as guardians of the internal secret of the Ehernen sea and of the holy golden triangle, arose warning: mankind should develop slowly. But it looked, what would take place."
                                   
                                  Dottie:
                                   
                                  Okay, my question is if your or someone can double check the sentence that I have bolded and italicized to see if 'donate' is actually saying 'founded'? I don't know what word it is or I could isolate it and check it out. Also the word that means ''medal" needs to have its meaning established in the German.
                                   
                                  I can't seem to find my East in Light of the West book and I was just rereading it for some reason about a month past. Darn.
                                   
                                  Okay, so Kees, I am not some bored lonely lady sitting in her room with nothing but stupid questions to ask to bother you. First you can just ignore my questions like everyone else, or you could figure out that or listen in to what I said earlier: I found before it was cool to say that Christian Rosenkruetz and Count Saint Germain were one about 10 years ago while I was on a group called the ARK. I was told I was wrong. At that time I had no reference and only inspiration and imagination to go on from what I had been reading. It wasn't until about three years after I found it that someone pointed me to a reference stating that Rudolf Steiner did indeed say that Count Saint Germain was an incarnation of Christian Rosenkrutz.
                                   
                                  Now, fast forward a few years back, and some really knowledeable young lady with a grind for me told me that I was wrong and so were others that thought that Count Saint Germain was the incarnation of Christian Rosenkruetz and that he was only an 'aspect' and she has this on high from a Vorstand member. So, from there I try to figure out what the heck that can mean. Firstly I thought they were wrong. And then secondly I thought, well, let me see what they could be talking about....its easy to say others are wrong but a whole lot different by trying to understand their position. And that's my gesture. I intitially might think someones' wrong and then I see how I can see it from their position.
                                   
                                  So, when I get the East and West book back from the demons who took it:) just teasing, kinda, I will check the reference. I will also see if I have time to check the reference for Andreas.
                                   
                                  I don't have any time at all in any shape way or form,  but these darn! mysteries are pushing in on me again I imagine because Michael is about and the chase is on.
                                   
                                  All good things,
                                  Dottie

                                  "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                                • Cheese Curve
                                  to the unbored notsolonely lady(;-) Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d Adhemar, eine
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                     
                                    to the unbored notsolonely lady(;-)
                                     
                                    Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d'Adhemar, eine Persönlichkeit, die alle wichtigen Szenen der Revolution voraussagte, um davor zu warnen. Es war der Graf von Saint-Germain, dieselbe Persönlichkeit, die in früherer Inkarnation den Orden der Rosenkreuzer gestiftet hat. Er vertrat damals den Standpunkt: die Menschen müßten in ruhiger Weise von der weltlichen Kultur zu der wahren Kultur des Christentums geführt werden. Die weltlichen Mächte wollten sich aber die Freiheit im Sturm, in materieller Weise erobern. Zwar sah er die Revolution als notwendige Konsequenz an, aber er warnte doch davor. Er, Christian Rosenkreutz, in der Inkarnation vom 18. Jahrhundert, als Hüter des innersten Geheimnisses vom Ehernen Meer und vom heiligen Goldenen Dreieck, trat warnend auf: die Menschheit sollte sich langsam entwickeln. Doch schaute er, was vor sich gehen würde.
                                     
                                     
                                    donated must be- found ,CR as founder/inaugurator of the CR-moverment
                                     
                                    medal must be order (group) movement foundation, (here is intuition better than babblfish)
                                     
                                    who Andreas and Michael are, of course I dont know(;-)
                                     
                                    east-west (3 books!) refers to WJ Stein and Rittelmeyer so this are too else possibilitys for sources
                                     
                                    gr. Kees

                                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: dottie_z@...
                                    Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:58:58 -0700
                                    Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] RS CR gstG

                                     
                                    Okay Kees, here's what I have translateed at babblefish:
                                     
                                    Before the French revolution appeared to the queen with a yard lady Marie Antoinette, the madame d' Adhemar, a personality, that forecast all important scenes of the revolution, in order to warn before it. It was the count von Saint Germain, the same personality, that donated in earlier Inkarnation the medal of the rose cruisers. It held at that time the point of view: humans would have to be led in calm way from the worldly culture to the true culture of the Christianity. Worldly powers wanted to capture however the freedom in the storm, in material way. It regarded the revolution as necessary consequence, but it warned nevertheless before it. It, Christian Rosenkreutz, in the Inkarnation of 18. Century, as guardians of the internal secret of the Ehernen sea and of the holy golden triangle, arose warning: mankind should develop slowly. But it looked, what would take place."
                                     
                                    Dottie:
                                     
                                    Okay, my question is if your or someone can double check the sentence that I have bolded and italicized to see if 'donate' is actually saying 'founded'? I don't know what word it is or I could isolate it and check it out. Also the word that means ''medal" needs to have its meaning established in the German.
                                     
                                    I can't seem to find my East in Light of the West book and I was just rereading it for some reason about a month past. Darn.
                                     
                                    Okay, so Kees, I am not some bored lonely lady sitting in her room with nothing but stupid questions to ask to bother you. First you can just ignore my questions like everyone else, or you could figure out that or listen in to what I said earlier: I found before it was cool to say that Christian Rosenkruetz and Count Saint Germain were one about 10 years ago while I was on a group called the ARK. I was told I was wrong. At that time I had no reference and only inspiration and imagination to go on from what I had been reading. It wasn't until about three years after I found it that someone pointed me to a reference stating that Rudolf Steiner did indeed say that Count Saint Germain was an incarnation of Christian Rosenkrutz.
                                     
                                    Now, fast forward a few years back, and some really knowledeable young lady with a grind for me told me that I was wrong and so were others that thought that Count Saint Germain was the incarnation of Christian Rosenkruetz and that he was only an 'aspect' and she has this on high from a Vorstand member. So, from there I try to figure out what the heck that can mean. Firstly I thought they were wrong. And then secondly I thought, well, let me see what they could be talking about....its easy to say others are wrong but a whole lot different by trying to understand their position. And that's my gesture. I intitially might think someones' wrong and then I see how I can see it from their position.
                                     
                                    So, when I get the East and West book 3 (chap.1) back from the demons who took it:) just teasing, kinda, I will check the reference. I will also see if I have time to check the reference for Andreas.
                                     
                                    I don't have any time at all in any shape way or form,  but these darn! mysteries are pushing in on me again I imagine because Michael is about and the chase is on.
                                     
                                    All good things,
                                    Dottie

                                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




                                    SMS "vrienden" naar 3010 en ontvang gratis de juiste instellingen voor Hotmail en Messenger op je mobiele telefoon
                                  • eltrigal78
                                    ... F: Hilarious.  
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Okay Kees, here's what I have translateed at babblefish:

                                      F: Hilarious.  

                                      > "Before the French revolution appeared to the queen with a yard lady Marie Antoinette, the madame d' Adhemar, a personality, that forecast all important scenes of the revolution, in order to warn before it. It was the count von Saint Germain, the same personality, that donated in earlier Inkarnation the medal of the rose cruisers. It held at that time the point of view: humans would have to be led in calm way from the worldly culture to the true culture of the Christianity. Worldly powers wanted to capture however the freedom in the storm, in material way. It regarded the revolution as necessary consequence, but it warned nevertheless before it. It, Christian Rosenkreutz, in the Inkarnation of 18. Century, as guardians of the internal secret of the Ehernen sea and of the holy golden triangle, arose warning: mankind should develop slowly. But it looked, what would take place."
                                    • eltrigal78
                                      ... Hey Kees, do you work for Babblefish? Frank
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Cheese Curve <K_Kromme@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > to the unbored notsolonely lady(;-)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d'Adhemar, eine Persönlichkeit, die alle wichtigen Szenen der Revolution voraussagte, um davor zu warnen. Es war der Graf von Saint-Germain, dieselbe Persönlichkeit, die in früherer Inkarnation den Orden der Rosenkreuzer gestiftet hat. Er vertrat damals den Standpunkt: die Menschen müßten in ruhiger Weise von der weltlichen Kultur zu der wahren Kultur des Christentums geführt werden. Die weltlichen Mächte wollten sich aber die Freiheit im Sturm, in materieller Weise erobern. Zwar sah er die Revolution als notwendige Konsequenz an, aber er warnte doch davor. Er, Christian Rosenkreutz, in der Inkarnation vom 18. Jahrhundert, als Hüter des innersten Geheimnisses vom Ehernen Meer und vom heiligen Goldenen Dreieck, trat warnend auf: die Menschheit sollte sich langsam entwickeln. Doch schaute er, was vor sich gehen würde.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > donated must be- found ,CR as founder/inaugurator of the CR-moverment
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > medal must be order (group) movement foundation, (here is intuition better than babblfish)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > who Andreas and Michael are, of course I dont know(;-)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > east-west (3 books!) refers to WJ Stein and Rittelmeyer so this are too else possibilitys for sources
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > gr. Kees

                                        Hey Kees, do you work for Babblefish?
                                        Frank
                                      • dottie zold
                                        Hey smartalec you want to give a translation or keep snubbing your nose... If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                          Hey smartalec you want to give a translation or keep snubbing your nose...

                                          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                                          --- On Fri, 9/11/09, eltrigal78 <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                                          From: eltrigal78 <eltrigal78@...>
                                          Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RS CR gstG
                                          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 10:59 AM

                                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Cheese Curve <K_Kromme@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > to the unbored notsolonely lady(;-)
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > Vor der Französischen Revolution erschien bei einer Hofdame der Königin Marie-Antoinette, der Madame d'Adhemar, eine Persönlichkeit, die alle wichtigen Szenen der Revolution voraussagte, um davor zu warnen. Es war der Graf von Saint-Germain, dieselbe Persönlichkeit, die in früherer Inkarnation den Orden der Rosenkreuzer gestiftet hat. Er vertrat damals den Standpunkt: die Menschen müßten in ruhiger Weise von der weltlichen Kultur zu der wahren Kultur des Christentums geführt werden. Die weltlichen Mächte wollten sich aber die Freiheit im Sturm, in materieller Weise erobern. Zwar sah er die Revolution als notwendige Konsequenz an, aber er warnte doch davor. Er, Christian Rosenkreutz, in der Inkarnation vom 18. Jahrhundert, als Hüter des innersten Geheimnisses vom Ehernen Meer und vom heiligen Goldenen Dreieck, trat warnend auf: die Menschheit sollte sich langsam entwickeln. Doch schaute er, was vor sich gehen würde.

                                          >

                                          >
                                          > donated must be- found ,CR as founder/inaugurator of the CR-moverment
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > medal must be order (group) movement foundation, (here is intuition better than babblfish)
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > who Andreas and Michael are, of course I dont know(;-)
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > east-west (3 books!) refers to WJ Stein and Rittelmeyer so this are too else possibilitys for sources
                                          >

                                          >
                                          > gr. Kees

                                          Hey Kees, do you work for Babblefish?
                                          Frank





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                                        • eltrigal78
                                          ... No, PoF (Pants on Fire), no one could beat Babblefish, not even me. Frank
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hey smartalec you want to give a translation or keep snubbing your nose...

                                            No, PoF (Pants on Fire), no one could beat Babblefish, not even me.
                                            Frank
                                          • dottie zold
                                            Book 3 Chapter 1 !!! your kidding me right?! There are three books .... oh boy...okay, I won t be able to get that one so give me the quote and lets 
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Sep 11, 2009
                                              Book 3 Chapter 1 !!! your kidding me right?! There are three books .... oh boy...okay, I won't be able to get that one so give me the quote and lets  babblefish it...I only have the book on Agni, Part 1...jees kees, d 

                                              "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken.." Rudolf Steiner

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