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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra

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  • Mikko Nuuttila
    Hello, I m new here and trying to make sense of all this Dottie says. However, I would like to point out that the Finnish kabbalist Seppo Heinola in his book
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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      Hello, I'm new here and trying to make sense of all this Dottie says. However, I would like to point out that the Finnish kabbalist Seppo Heinola in his book about the bible and reincarnation which was elected the esoteric book of the year in Finland, expresses his view that the Book of Job contains a description of reincarnation. Just something to consider, not to interfere with Dottie's reasonings here. You see, the Book of Job tells about getting a brand new body after all the difficulties...
      Mikko


      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:20:22 PM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra

       

      See, how I came to this was that I was checking out the lineage of Jesus because I was checking out something in Job. Now in Mathew the lineage starts with Abraham, who it is said is an incarnation, or possible depending on what you consider, and I thought that interesting as I hadn't noted that before.
       
      Now, in the Luke gospel we can easily see how it is said there is a 'new Adam' I hadn't understood that before although I had heard it...I could follow it now in the Bible, in the written Word. I think it can be shown to my Christian friends now how it is that there are two Jesus' through the lineage and how one portion was held back, its right there in front of us. I've always said that it shouldn't be something that Steiner students are afraid to talk of before others and now I can see how I can show my family...they' re always my first stop towards my Christian friends to see if it makes sense to them and usually it does even if its a stretch they can sense it in a way....
       
      So I don't know of any other that received a double portion other than Elijah and now we hear of that with Job although I haven't reached that element yet in reading the Book of Job. And that got me to wondering/thinking how it is that Elijah becomes the oversoul of the twelve and then incorporates with Lazarus as shared by Rudolf Steiner. What about Job? Where is Job in all of this? Who does he incorporate with? I think he must be there. The editors consider this 'double' portion of Job has to do with years but its a mystery on the level of Elijah and Elisha I think. (I used to consider it a possibility, but no longer, that Elisha was a female when I first began because I was finding so many hidden things regarding the feminine that I started wondering what else was hidden regarding the feminine historical figures in the Bible.)
       
      And then I was wondering about the Principles of Spiritual Economy.  Elijah says to Elisha he will be gifted with a 'double portion' if he sees him go up in the Chariot, which he does. Then we hear of all kinds of healing that Elijah does after that occurrance. But do we know how this 'double portion' works: is it from above as it is said of John the Baptist with the twelve or 'in' as what seems to be being said with Lazarus John?
       
      And then what about Zarathustra: how is it said 'he leaves Jesus and enters into his mother, the stepmother of Jesus'? Who we have to understand also now has a double portion as well....well, then what about the MarySophia entering in as well.....
       
      Yes, this I would like to know.
       
      All good things,
      Dottie
       


      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner


    • dottie zold
      Okay, so friend emails on the side and says that Manu was the teacher of Zarathustra and Abraham. Aristotle in the spiritual worlds, I know that is said...and
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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        Okay, so friend emails on the side and says that Manu was the teacher of Zarathustra and Abraham. Aristotle in the spiritual worlds, I know that is said...and its interesting to me that I had considered it possible that Rudolf Steiner and Lazarus were one years ago when I was seeking to find Lazarus and couldn't and it came to me that Lazarus and Steiner were one....and I had to work through that...and now friend says that Aristotle in the heaven's was working with those below, Lazarus/John and also Zarathustra...so at least it makes sense why I was finding Zarathustra through Abraham which led me to Rudolf Steiner....
         
        But what about Job? What about Job and Zarathustra, whats up with that?
         
        d

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Sun, 9/6/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:13 PM



        I mean is this freakin possible?!!!

        How could it be said that Rudolf Steiner did not have many incarnations and yet be the closest to the Christ Consciousness that we have encountered…if anyone know another closer please let’s hear his name.

        I am thinking that he also says he was not there during the time of Golgotha…I am thinking it possible we are looking at Steiner as being Master Jesus…and yet he would not have many incarnations IF he was able to recreate his sheaths anew.

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Sun, 9/6/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:


        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Mary the Stepmother and the prostitutes
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:39 PM



        Okay! and Rachab is the mother of Boaz! And Salmon, possibly Joshua, is the father of this child Boaz as found in some rabbinical considerations! I think these women must be the former incarnations of the one called the Step Mother, the one whom the....oh my goodeness...okay, the one whom other Mary as the representative of the Sophia, enters therein.....I think this must be so....

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner







      • dottie zold
        Hi Friends,   I just read of Dr. Katz s passing and I thought to share the link to his considerations here:   http://steinerhealth.org/Katz.html   I
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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          Hi Friends,
           
          I just read of Dr. Katz's passing and I thought to share the link to his considerations here:
           
           
          I encountered Dr. Katz by phone for the first time when I called to see about his book on the Foundation Stone Meditation that was a collaboration with Joan Almon and maybe Rene Querido...i am not sure if Mr. Querido was the third collaborator I will check. In any case I bought them all after speaking with him, how could I not? Whew. He also sent me an incredible book put together by his wife on the plays they did for so many years together. It seemed to me that this was a great joy for him, the working on plays and costumes and then putting it in a book for all those that wished to have an idea of these things.
           
          I met him one time in Ann Arbor and when in Dornach I got on the  bus at the station and there was Dr. Katz sitting on the front seat awaiting for the ride to the hill. I was shocked to see him there like that for some reason and just said hello. He said hello like he knew me and everyone else on that bus and like it was just a normal happening to see people who knew him.
           
          I saw him speak briefly at the AGM this year and have heard that he gave a rousing talk for the Michael School where it was put forth about ones experience with Christian Rosenkruz...a first time that one was asked to share their experience of Christian in such a setting. My friend found it to be so encouraging that it was Dr. Katz who asked others to share, coming from such an old school.
           
          Anyhow, I will not forget this mans presence.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie

          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        • dottie zold
          Hi Mikko,   Can you share more about how it is seen as a reincarnation story? I am always looking to see the places where this can be shown in the Bible for
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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            Hi Mikko,
             
            Can you share more about how it is seen as a reincarnation story? I am always looking to see the places where this can be shown in the Bible for my Christian friends.
             
            Thanks,
            Dottie

            "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

          • Mikko Nuuttila
            Seppo Heinola teaches further that the idea of reincarnation may be seen in the Psalm 19:8 (God s law is perfect, it makes the soul return). The previous verse
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 8, 2009
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              Seppo Heinola teaches further that the idea of reincarnation may be seen in the Psalm 19:8 (God's law is perfect, it makes the soul return). The previous verse talks about the sun and law (Torah) also means the wheel, which may be the sun, that always goes away and then returns, he says. Psalm 90:3 "You make people return to dust and say return again you children of people." Kabbalists especially refer to this psalm when talking about reincarnation. There are many indications on the net how the book of Job can NOT be seen as a reincarnation story, which points out how there must have been attempts to view it as such. I don't remember any other ideas for now about it except how you will get a brand new body at one point in the story, which would seem to be about reincarnation somehow.
               
              "the book of "Preacher"" in the Bible: (sorry, the translations are mine)
              The wheels of life
              before the silver cord is broken
              and the golden vessel is broken
              and the water pot is broken at the fountain
              and the lifting wheel falls, broken, into the well
               
              and the dust returns to earth
              from whence it came from
              and the soul returns to God
              who also gave it
               
              The wheel galgal is close to the word galal, which means the little balls of excrement the Scarab pushes on the ground in Egypt as a symbol of the Sun, Heinola points out. The places creating dead matter, faeces, and life, sperm, are close to each other in the body and the words shit and sex closely resemble each other, he says without making it sound too banal.
               
              Brian Snellgrove teaches in his book about the auras that scientists have found out that bugs such as the scarab communicate in gamma waves. These waves happen to be emitted by black holes according to Hawking. The Egyptians viewed the sutures of the back skull as the back of the scarab symbolically speaking. The Silva Mind Control Method teaches you to communicate with the center of the galaxy (black hole) by bowing your head as in prayer so the back of the skull does the job. Tensegrity of Carlos Castaneda teaches a move to contact the black hole and in it, you bow your head too and reveal your back skull to it, which we know incidentally is the scarab. Growing talk about stargates and our evolution in the cosmos through wormholes in the new age community on the net is an indicatory trend of all these kinds of matters.
               
              Mikko


              From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
              To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 6:31:48 PM
              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra

               

              Hi Mikko,
               
              Can you share more about how it is seen as a reincarnation story? I am always looking to see the places where this can be shown in the Bible for my Christian friends.
               
              Thanks,
              Dottie

              "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner


            • dottie zold
              You know its funny that I can not find that interpretation about the souls return on line, however I did find this: Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 8, 2009
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                You know its funny that I can not find that interpretation about the souls return on line, however I did find this:
                Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words; As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times.
                 
                Dottie: That's a good way also to show reincarnation if one is willing to consider the seven times and what refined means...also 19 is interesting in that they call the Sun the bridegroom...that is another interesting consideration that will speak to my Christian friends who can see that Steiner's work is not foreign to Christianity.

                "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

              • dottie zold
                I can find in no bible the translation about the soul returning in Psalms 19:8....do you know what bible he is talking about, what translation?   d If there
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 9, 2009
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                  I can find in no bible the translation about the soul returning in Psalms 19:8....do you know what bible he is talking about, what translation?
                   
                  d

                  "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                  --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@...> wrote:

                  From: Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@...>
                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] job and reincarnation
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 12:12 AM



                  Seppo Heinola teaches further that the idea of reincarnation may be seen in the Psalm 19:8 (God's law is perfect, it makes the soul return). The previous verse talks about the sun and law (Torah) also means the wheel, which may be the sun, that always goes away and then returns, he says. Psalm 90:3 "You make people return to dust and say return again you children of people." Kabbalists especially refer to this psalm when talking about reincarnation. There are many indications on the net how the book of Job can NOT be seen as a reincarnation story, which points out how there must have been attempts to view it as such. I don't remember any other ideas for now about it except how you will get a brand new body at one point in the story, which would seem to be about reincarnation somehow.
                   
                  "the book of "Preacher"" in the Bible: (sorry, the translations are mine)
                  The wheels of life
                  before the silver cord is broken
                  and the golden vessel is broken
                  and the water pot is broken at the fountain
                  and the lifting wheel falls, broken, into the well
                   
                  and the dust returns to earth
                  from whence it came from
                  and the soul returns to God
                  who also gave it
                   
                  The wheel galgal is close to the word galal, which means the little balls of excrement the Scarab pushes on the ground in Egypt as a symbol of the Sun, Heinola points out. The places creating dead matter, faeces, and life, sperm, are close to each other in the body and the words shit and sex closely resemble each other, he says without making it sound too banal.
                   
                  Brian Snellgrove teaches in his book about the auras that scientists have found out that bugs such as the scarab communicate in gamma waves. These waves happen to be emitted by black holes according to Hawking. The Egyptians viewed the sutures of the back skull as the back of the scarab symbolically speaking. The Silva Mind Control Method teaches you to communicate with the center of the galaxy (black hole) by bowing your head as in prayer so the back of the skull does the job. Tensegrity of Carlos Castaneda teaches a move to contact the black hole and in it, you bow your head too and reveal your back skull to it, which we know incidentally is the scarab. Growing talk about stargates and our evolution in the cosmos through wormholes in the new age community on the net is an indicatory trend of all these kinds of matters.
                   
                  Mikko


                  From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 6:31:48 PM
                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra

                   
                  Hi Mikko,
                   
                  Can you share more about how it is seen as a reincarnation story? I am always looking to see the places where this can be shown in the Bible for my Christian friends.
                   
                  Thanks,
                  Dottie

                  "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner





                • dottie zold
                  You know, looking at Mary of Cleophas, and because I do not see Lazarus at the cross, I see her in the place of the stepmother....and the two that are on the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 9, 2009
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                    You know, looking at Mary of Cleophas, and because I do not see Lazarus at the cross, I see her in the place of the stepmother....and the two that are on the road it seems are Peter and Lazarus/Cleophas or I don't understand how those two can say that Peter saw the Lord unless it was right then and there on the road and then to the disciples...and it seemed to me where Peter is redeemed and how it can be said that the Lord appeared to Simon.

                    I think Cleophas may be a name change for the Stepmother....and so in John where we have Mother we have heavenly Sophia, in Cleophas we have the Stepmother who experienced a name change, and then the Magdalene....So, if we have Cleophas standing in and being united by Christ with Lazarus she stands for both of them...I always had a hard time with those who said Lazarus had to be hidden because of the controversy of being risen, and the reason why they wanted to stone Jesus in the end...for he had risen a man..this was the final reasoning was it not?
                     
                    So, it was Christ Jesus who saw Lazarus, and said 'the disciple whom the Lord loved' and without name, I think this might also have to do with the idea of him not being there at the cross. I never understood the physical mother Mary being there, but with the stepmother as Cleophas and now already united with Lazarus, something that actually might or most likely did occur at the raising, although the Lord states it at the crucifixion, we would have the Mother (Sophia) and Cleophas (Lazarus/Stepmother/now representing Sophia after being united with the heavenly Nathan Mary) but physically only Cleophas, and Magdalene. That's what I am considering.
                     
                    I always considered it to be the Magdalene who was walking with Cleophas because in John she is noted as a female. But I met with a lot of resistant that those two were females...but with Cleophas already noted as female, unless your looking at her husband, it had to be a female...but now I am thinking that at the cross we are looking at the female with Lazarus within and on the walk we are looking at Lazarus with Cleophas within walking with Peter...or how could they say that it was Simon who saw him first as it says in Luke...well, anyway that's what I am looking at....d

                    Mary of Cleophas

                    This title occurs only in John 19:25. A comparison of the lists of those who stood at the foot of the cross would seem to identify her with Mary, the mother of James the Less and Joseph (Mark 15:40; cf. Matthew 27:56). Some have indeed tried to identify her with the Salome of Mark 15:40, but St. John's reticence concerning himself and his relatives seems conclusive against this (cf. John 21:2). In the narratives of the Resurrection she is named "Mary of James"; (Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10) and "the other Mary" (Matthew 27:61; 28:1). The title of "Mary of James" is obscure. If it stood alone, we should feel inclined to render it "wife of (or sister of) James", but the recurrence of the expression "Mary the mother of James and Joseph" compels us to render it in the same way when we only read "Mary of James". Her relationship to the Blessed Virgin is obscure. James is termed "of Alpheus", i.e. presumably "son of Alpheus". St. Jerome would identify this Alpheus with Cleophas who, according to Hegesippus, was brother to St. Joseph (Hist. eccl., III, xi). In this case Mary of Cleophas, or Alpheus, would be the sister-in-law of the Blessed Virgin, and the term "sister", adelphe, in John 19:25, would cover this. But there are grave difficulties in the way of this identification of Alpheus and Cleophas. In the first place, St. Luke, who speaks of Cleophas (24:18), also speaks of Alpheus (6:15; Acts 1:13). We may question whether he would have been guilty of such a confused use of names, had they both referred to the same person. Again, while Alphas is the equivalent of the Aramaic, it is not easy to see how the Greek form of this became Cleophas, or more correctly Clopas. More probably it is a shortened form of Cleopatros.
                     
                     
                     
                    25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen. 26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own. 28 Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst. 29 Now there was a vessel set there, full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar about hyssop, put it to his mouth. 30 Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost.
                     
                    Luke 24:
                    And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. 3 And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this, behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel. 5 And as they were afraid and bowed down their countenance towards the ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, 7 Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and the third day rise again. 8 And they remembered his words. 9 And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 And it was Mary Magdalen and Joanna and Mary of James and the other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles. 11 And these words seemed to them as idle tales: and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter rising up, ran to the sepulchre and, stooping down, he saw the linen cloths laid by themselves: and went away wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.

                    13 And behold, two of them went, the same day, to a town which was sixty furlongs from Jerusalem, named Emmaus. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass that while they talked and reasoned with themselves, Jesus himself also, drawing near, went with them. 16 But their eyes were held, that they should not know him. 17 And he said to them: What are these discourses that you hold one with another as you walk and are sad? 18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleophas, answering, said to him: Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things that have been done there in these days? 19 To whom he said: What things? And they said: Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet, mighty in work and word before God and all the people. 20 And how our chief priests and princes delivered him to be condemned to death and crucified him. 21 But we hoped that it was he that should have redeemed Israel. And now besides all this, to-day is the third day since these things were done. 22 Yea and certain women also of our company affrighted us who, before it was light, were at the sepulchre, 23 And not finding his body, came, saying that they had all seen a vision of angels, who say that he is alive. 24 And some of our people went to the sepulchre and found it so as the women had said: but him they found not. 25 Then he said to them: O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all things, which the prophets have spoken. 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things and so, to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the scriptures the things that were concerning him. 28 And they drew nigh to the town whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther. 29 But they constrained him, saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them. 30 And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread and blessed and brake and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened: and they knew him. And he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in the way and opened to us the scriptures? 33 And rising up, the same hour, they went back to Jerusalem: and they found the eleven gathered together, and those that were with them, 34 Saying: The Lord is risen indeed and hath appeared to Simon. 35 And they told what things were done in the way: and how they knew him in the breaking of bread.

                     
                     
                     


                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner


                  • Mikko Nuuttila
                    It says giving joy to the heart in the New International Version, not returns the soul . In some Finnish versions, it says refreshens the soul and says
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 9, 2009
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                      It says "giving joy to the heart" in the New International Version, not "returns the soul". In some Finnish versions, it says "refreshens the soul" and says the word for refreshen in English is "convert" which is closer to the idea return. Heinola translates directly from Hebrew. I hope we can trust his translations also, for he says the Bible is replete with errors in translation. Heinola also uses word comparisons to check within Hebrew the closest words, which is an old Kabbalistic method, to choose the best meaning for the word he is translating, if there are many possibilities.
                      Mikko


                      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:43:03 AM
                      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] job and reincarnation

                       

                      I can find in no bible the translation about the soul returning in Psalms 19:8....do you know what bible he is talking about, what translation?
                       
                      d

                      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                      --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@yahoo. com> wrote:

                      From: Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@yahoo. com>
                      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] job and reincarnation
                      To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 12:12 AM



                      Seppo Heinola teaches further that the idea of reincarnation may be seen in the Psalm 19:8 (God's law is perfect, it makes the soul return). The previous verse talks about the sun and law (Torah) also means the wheel, which may be the sun, that always goes away and then returns, he says. Psalm 90:3 "You make people return to dust and say return again you children of people." Kabbalists especially refer to this psalm when talking about reincarnation. There are many indications on the net how the book of Job can NOT be seen as a reincarnation story, which points out how there must have been attempts to view it as such. I don't remember any other ideas for now about it except how you will get a brand new body at one point in the story, which would seem to be about reincarnation somehow.
                       
                      "the book of "Preacher"" in the Bible: (sorry, the translations are mine)
                      The wheels of life
                      before the silver cord is broken
                      and the golden vessel is broken
                      and the water pot is broken at the fountain
                      and the lifting wheel falls, broken, into the well
                       
                      and the dust returns to earth
                      from whence it came from
                      and the soul returns to God
                      who also gave it
                       
                      The wheel galgal is close to the word galal, which means the little balls of excrement the Scarab pushes on the ground in Egypt as a symbol of the Sun, Heinola points out. The places creating dead matter, faeces, and life, sperm, are close to each other in the body and the words shit and sex closely resemble each other, he says without making it sound too banal.
                       
                      Brian Snellgrove teaches in his book about the auras that scientists have found out that bugs such as the scarab communicate in gamma waves. These waves happen to be emitted by black holes according to Hawking. The Egyptians viewed the sutures of the back skull as the back of the scarab symbolically speaking. The Silva Mind Control Method teaches you to communicate with the center of the galaxy (black hole) by bowing your head as in prayer so the back of the skull does the job. Tensegrity of Carlos Castaneda teaches a move to contact the black hole and in it, you bow your head too and reveal your back skull to it, which we know incidentally is the scarab. Growing talk about stargates and our evolution in the cosmos through wormholes in the new age community on the net is an indicatory trend of all these kinds of matters.
                       
                      Mikko


                      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@yahoo. com>
                      To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 6:31:48 PM
                      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Steiner and Zarathustra

                       
                      Hi Mikko,
                       
                      Can you share more about how it is seen as a reincarnation story? I am always looking to see the places where this can be shown in the Bible for my Christian friends.
                       
                      Thanks,
                      Dottie

                      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner






                    • dottie zold
                      Okay, so in my bible, when it mentions Cleophas as the mother of Joses, Mother is in italics....this leads me to ponder that we are now talking about the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 9, 2009
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                        Okay, so in my bible, when it mentions Cleophas as the mother of Joses, Mother is in italics....this leads me to ponder that we are now talking about the Sophia, as in her transformation...now in what I am sharing below about James the Lesser, the father's name, Alphaeus, could be a new name for Joseph...i think that's what it relates to...this James, the lessor is the son of the Stepmother, whom I am considering as the Cleophas Mary. d
                         

                        Saint James (James the Great)

                        General Information
                        Together with his brother Saint John, Saint James was among the first disciples called by Jesus (Matt. 4:21). These sons of Zebedee, called the Boanerges ("Sons of Thunder"), joined the brothers Peter and Andrew, also fishermen by trade, in a close inner circle around Jesus. James, Peter, and John were the only disciples present, for example, at the Transfiguration (Luke 9) and near Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. James was martyred under Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12). According to legend, his bones were taken to Spain, and his shrine at Santiago de Compostela was one of the most important pilgrimage centers in the Middle Ages. Feast day: Apr. 30 (Eastern); July 25 (Western).
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                        Saint James (James the Lesser or James the Less or James the Little)

                        General Information
                        Saint James the Lesser was the Apostle James, son of Alphaeus and disciple of Jesus (Mark 3:18). His mother, Mary, was one of the women at the crucifixion and at the tomb (Matt. 10:3; 27:56, Mark 15:40; 16:1; Acts 1:13). This James is sometimes identified with James the "brother of Jesus," although this and other identifications are unproven. Feast day: Oct. 9 (Eastern); May 3 (Western, since 1969).

                        Saint James

                        Advanced Information
                        • (1.) The son of Zebedee and Salome; an elder brother of John the apostle. He was one of the Twelve. He was by trade a fisherman, in partnership with Peter (Matt. 20:20; 27:56). With John and Peter he was present at the transfiguration (Matt. 17:1; Mark 9:2), at the raising of Jairus's daughter (Mark 5:37-43), and in the garden with our Lord (14:33). Because, probably, of their boldness and energy, he and John were called Boanerges, i.e., "sons of thunder." He was the first martyr among the apostles, having been beheaded by King Herod Agrippa (Acts 12:1, 2), A.D. 44. (Comp. Matt. 4:21; 20:20-23).
                        • (2.) The son of Alphaeus, or Cleopas, "the brother" or near kinsman or cousin of our Lord (Gal. 1:18, 19), called James "the Less," or "the Little," probably because he was of low stature. He is mentioned along with the other apostles (Matt. 10:3; Mark 3:18; Luke 6:15). He had a separate interview with our Lord after his resurrection (1 Cor. 15:7), and is mentioned as one of the apostles of the circumcision (Acts 1:13). He appears to have occupied the position of head of the Church at Jerusalem, where he presided at the council held to consider the case of the Gentiles (Acts 12:17; 15:13-29: 21:18-24). This James was the author of the epistle which bears his name.
                        • (3.) The Lord's brother [some scholars consider this to have been a separate person from the person above] (Matt. 13:55; Mark 6:3; Gal. 1:19); did not accept Jesus' claims during His Ministry (John 7:5), but did after the Resurrection (1Cor. 15:17). This James might also have been the one who headed the Church at Jerusalem, and presided at the Council. He gave advice to Paul (Acts 21).
                        • (4.) Father of Apostle Judas (not Iscariot) (Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13)
                        (Easton Illustrated Dictionary)

                        St. James the Greater

                        Catholic Information
                        (Hebrew Yakob; Septuagint Iakob; N.T. Greek Iakobos; a favourite name among the later Jews).
                        The son of Zebedee and Salome (Cf. Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40; 16:1). Zahn asserts that Salome was the daughter of a priest. James is styled "the Greater" to distinguish him from the Apostle James "the Less", who was probably shorter of stature. We know nothing of St. James's early life. He was the brother of John, the beloved disciple, and probably the elder of the two.
                        His parents seem to have been people of means as appears from the following facts.
                        Zebedee was a fisherman of the Lake of Galilee, who probably lived in or near Bethsaida (John 1:44), perhaps in Capharnaum; and had some boatmen or hired men as his usual attendants (Mark 1:20).
                        Salome was one of the pious women who afterwards followed Christ and "ministered unto him of their substance" (cf. Matthew 27:55, sq.; Mark 15:40; 16:1; Luke 8:2 sq.; 23:55-24:1).
                        St. John was personally known to the high-priest (John 18:16); and must have had wherewithal to provide for the Mother of Jesus (John 19:27).
                        It is probable, according to Acts 4:13, that John (and consequently his brother James) had not received the technical training of the rabbinical schools; in this sense they were unlearned and without any official position among the Jews. But, according to the social rank of their parents, they must have been men of ordinary education, in the common walks of Jewish life. They had frequent opportunity of coming in contact with Greek life and language, which were already widely spread along the shores of the Galilean Sea.
                        Relation of St. James to Jesus
                        Some authors, comparing John 19:25 with Matthew 28:56 and Mark 15:40, identify, and probably rightly so, Mary the Mother of James the Less and of Joseph in Mark and Matthew with "Mary of Cleophas" in John. As the name of Mary Magdalen occurs in the three lists, they identify further Salome in Mark with "the mother of the sons of Zebedee" in Matthew; finally they identify Salome with "his mother's sister" in John. They suppose, for this last identification, that four women are designated by John 19:25; the Syriac "Peshito" gives the reading: "His mother and his mother's sister, and Mary of Cleophas and Mary Magdalen." If this last supposition is right, Salome was a sister of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and James the Greater and John were first cousins of the Lord; this may explain the discipleship of the two brothers, Salome's request and their own claim to the first position in His kingdom, and His commendation of the Blessed Virgin to her own nephew. But it is doubtful whether the Greek admits of this construction without the addition or the omission of kai (and). Thus the relationship of St. James to Jesus remains doubtful.
                        His life and apostolate
                        The Galilean origin of St. James in some degree explains the energy of temper and the vehemence of character which earned for him and St. John the name of Boanerges, "sons of thunder" (Mark 3:17); the Galilean race was religious, hardy, industrious, brave, and the strongest defender of the Jewish nation. When John the Baptist proclaimed the kingdom of the Messias, St. John became a disciple (John 1:35); he was directed to "the Lamb of God" and afterwards brought his brother James to the Messias; the obvious meaning of John 1:41, is that St. Andrew finds his brother (St. Peter) first and that afterwards St. John (who does not name himself, according to his habitual and characteristic reserve and silence about himself) finds his brother (St. James). The call of St. James to the discipleship of the Messias is reported in a parallel or identical narration by Matthew 4:18-22; Mark 1:19 sq.; and Luke 5:1-11. The two sons of Zebedee, as well as Simon (Peter) and his brother Andrew with whom they were in partnership (Luke 5:10), were called by the Lord upon the Sea of Galilee, where all four with Zebedee and his hired servants were engaged in their ordinary occupation of fishing. The sons of Zebedee "forthwith left their nets and father, and followed him" (Matthew 4:22), and became "fishers of men". St. James was afterwards with the other eleven called to the Apostleship (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19; Luke 6:12-16; Acts 1:13). In all four lists the names of Peter and Andrew, James and John form the first group, a prominent and chosen group (cf. Mark 13:3); especially Peter, James, and John. These three Apostles alone were admitted to be present at the miracle of the raising of Jairus's daughter (Mark 5:37; Luke 8:51), at the Transfiguration (Mark 9:1; Matthew 17:1; Luke 9:28), and the Agony in Gethsemani (Matthew 26:37; Mark 14:33). The fact that the name of James occurs always (except in Luke 8:51; 9:28; Acts 1:13 -- Greek Text) before that of his brother seems to imply that James was the elder of the two. It is worthy of notice that James is never mentioned in the Gospel of St. John; this author observes a humble reserve not only with regard to himself, but also about the members of his family. Several incidents scattered through the Synoptics suggest that James and John had that particular character indicated by the name "Boanerges," sons of thunder, given to them by the Lord (Mark 3:17); they were burning and impetuous in their evangelical zeal and severe in temper. The two brothers showed their fiery temperament against "a certain man casting out devils" in the name of the Christ; John, answering, said: "We [James is probably meant] forbade him, because he followeth not with us" (Luke 9:49). When the Samaritans refused to receive Christ, James and John said: "Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them?" (Luke 9:54; cf. 9:49).
                        His martyrdom
                        On the last journey to Jerusalem, their mother Salome came to the Lord and said to Him: "Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom" (Matthew 20:21). And the two brothers, still ignorant of the spiritual nature of the Messianic Kingdom, joined with their mother in this eager ambition (Mark 10:37). And on their assertion that they are willing to drink the chalice that He drinks of, and to be baptized with the baptism of His sufferings, Jesus assured them that they will share His sufferings (Mark 5:38-39).
                        James won the crown of martyrdom fourteen years after this prophecy, A.D. 44. Herod Agrippa I, son of Aristobulus and grandson of Herod the Great, reigned at that time as "king" over a wider dominion than that of his grandfather. His great object was to please the Jews in every way, and he showed great regard for the Mosaic Law and Jewish customs. In pursuance of this policy, on the occasion of the Passover of A.D. 44, he perpetrated cruelties upon the Church, whose rapid growth incensed the Jews. The zealous temper of James and his leading part in the Jewish Christian communities probably led Agrippa to choose him as the first victim. "He killed James, the brother of John, with the sword." (Acts 12:1-2). According to a tradition, which, as we learn from Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., II, ix, 2, 3), was received from Clement of Alexandria (in the seventh book of his lost "Hypotyposes"), the accuser who led the Apostle to judgment, moved by his confession, became himself a Christian, and they were beheaded together. As Clement testifies expressly that the account was given him "by those who were before him," this tradition has a better foundation than many other traditions and legends respecting the Apostolic labours and death of St. James, which are related in the Latin "Passio Jacobi Majoris", the Ethiopic "Acts of James", and so on.
                        St. James in Spain
                        The tradition asserting that James the Greater preached the Gospel in Spain, and that his body was translated to Compostela, claims more serious consideration. According to this tradition St. James the Greater, having preached Christianity in Spain, returned to Judea and was put to death by order of Herod; his body was miraculously translated to Iria Flavia in the northwest of Spain, and later to Compostela, which town, especially during the Middle Ages, became one of the most famous places of pilgrimage in the world. The vow of making a pilgrimage to Compostela to honour the sepulchre of St. James is still reserved to the pope, who alone of his own or ordinary right can dispense from it. In the twelfth century was founded the Order of Knights of St. James of Compostela.
                        With regard to the preaching of the Gospel in Spain by St. James the greater, several difficulties have been raised:
                        St. James suffered martyrdom A.D. 44 (Acts 12:2), and, according to the tradition of the early Church, he had not yet left Jerusalem at this time (cf. Clement of Alexandria, "Strom.", VI; Apollonius, quoted by Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl." VI, xviii).
                        St. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans (A.D. 58) expressed the intention to visit Spain (Romans 15:24) just after he had mentioned (15:20) that he did not "build upon another man's foundation."
                        The argument ex silentio: although the tradition that James founded an Apostolic see in Spain was current in the year 700, no certain mention of such tradition is to be found in the genuine writings of early writers nor in the early councils; the first certain mention we find in the ninth century, in Notker, a monk of St. Gall (Martyrol., 25 July), Walafried Strabo (Poema de XII Apost.), and others.
                        The tradition was not unanimously admitted afterwards, while numerous scholars reject it. The Bollandists however defended it (see Acta Sanctorum, July, VI and VII, where other sources are given).
                        The authenticity of the sacred relic of Compostela has been questioned and is still doubted. Even if St. James the Greater did not preach the Christian religion in Spain, his body may have been brought to Compostela, and this was already the opinion of Notker. According to another tradition, the relics of the Apostle are kept in the church of St-Saturnin at Toulouse (France), but it is not improbable that such sacred relics should have been divided between two churches. A strong argument in favour of the authenticity of the sacred relics of Compostela is the Bull of Leo XIII, "Omnipotens Deus," of 1 November, 1884.
                        Publication information Written by A. Camerlynck. Transcribed by Paul T. Crowley. Dedicated to Mr. James Fogerty, Mr. James Horne, Mr. James Montemarano, and Mr. James Thomas and Families The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII. Published 1910. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

                        St. James the Less

                        Catholic Information
                        THE IDENTITY OF JAMES
                        The name "James" in the New Testament is borne by several:
                        James, the son of Zebedee -- Apostle, brother of John, Apostle; also called "James the Greater".
                        James, the son of Alpheus, Apostle -- Matthew 10:3; Mark 3:18; Luke 6:15; Acts 1:13.
                        James, the brother of the Lord -- Matthew 13:55; Mark 6:3; Galatians 1:19.
                        Without a shadow of doubt, he must be identified with the James of Galatians 2:2 and 2:9; Acts 12:17, 15:13 sqq. and 21:18; and I Corinthians 15:7.
                        James, the son of Mary, brother of Joseph (or Joses) -- Mark 15:40 (where he is called ò mikros "the little", not the "less", as in the D.V., nor the "lesser"); Matthew 27:56. Probably the son of Cleophas or Clopas (John 19:25) where "Maria Cleophæ" is generally translated "Mary the wife of Cleophas", as married women are commonly distinguished by the addition of their husband's name.
                        James, the brother of Jude -- Jude 1:1. Most Catholic commentators identify Jude with the "Judas Jacobi", the "brother of James" (Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13), called thus because his brother James was beter known than himself in the primitive Church.
                        The identity of the Apostle James (2), the son of Alpheus and James (3), the brother of the Lord and Bishop of the Church of Jerusalem (Acts 15, 21), although contested by many critics and, perhaps, not quite beyond doubt, is at least most highly probable, and by far the greater number of Catholic interpreters is considered as certain (see BRETHREN OF THE LORD, where the chief argument, taken from Galatians 1:19, in favour of the Apostleship of St. James the brother of the Lord, is to be found). The objection moved by Mader (Biblische Zeitschrift, 1908, p. 393 sqq.) against the common statement that "Apostles" in Galatians 1:19 is to be taken strictly in the sense of the "Twelve" has been strongly impugned by Steinmann (Der Katholik, 1909, p. 207 sqq.). The James (5) of Jude 1:1 must certainly be identified with James (3), the brother of the Lord and the Bishop of Jerusalem. The identification of James (3), the brother of the Lord and James (4), the son of Mary, and probably of Cleophas or Clopas offers some difficulty. This identification requires the identity of Mary, the mother of James (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40), with Mary the wife of Cleophas (John 19:25), and, consequently, the identity of Alpheus (2) and Clopas (4). As Clopas and Alpheus are probably not two different transcriptions of the same Aramaic name Halpai (see CLEOPHAS), it must be admitted that two different names have been borne by one man. Indeed, there are several examples of the use of two names (a Hebrew and a Greek or Latin name) to designate the same person (Simon-Petrus; Saulus-Paulus), so that the identity of Alpheus and Cleophas is by no means improbable.
                        On the whole, although there is no full evidence for the identity of James (2), the son of Alpheus, and James (3), the brother of the Lord, and James (4), the son of Mary of Clopas, the view that one and the same person is described in the New Testament in these three different ways, is by far the most probable. There is, at any rate, very good ground (Galatians 1:19, 2:9, 2:12) for believing that the Apostle James, the son of Alpheus is the same person as James, the brother of the Lord, the well-known Bishop of Jerusalem of the Acts. As to the nature of the relationship which the name "brother of the Lord" is intended to express, see BRETHREN OF THE LORD.
                        JAMES IN THE SCRIPTURES
                        Had we not identified James, the son of Alpheus with the brother of the Lord, we should only know his name and his Apostleship. But the identity once admitted, we must consequently apply to him all the particulars supplied by the books of the New Testament. We may venture to assert that the training of James (and his brother Jude), had been that which prevailed in all pious Jewish homes and that it was therefore based on the knowledge of the Holy Scripture and the rigorous observance of the Law. Many facts point to the diffusion of the Greek language and culture throughout Judea and Galilee, as early as the first century B.C.; we may suppose that the Apostles, at least most of them, read and spoke Greek as well as Aramaic, from their childhood. James was called to the Apostolate with his brother Jude; in all the four lists of the Apostles, he stands at the head of the third group (Matthew 10:3; Mark 3:18; Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13). Of James individually we hear no more until after the Resurrection. St. Paul (1 Corinthians 15:5-7) mentions that the Lord appeared to him before the Ascension.
                        Then we lose sight of James till St. Paul, three years after his conversion (A.D. 37), went up to Jerusalem. Of the Twelve Apostles he saw only Peter and James the brother of the Lord (Galatians 1:19; Acts 9:27). When in the year 44 Peter escaped from prison, he desired that news of his release might be carried to James who held already a marked preeminence in the Church of Jerusalem (Acts 12:17). In the Council of Jerusalem (A.D. 51) he gives his sentence after St. Peter, declaring as Peter had done, that the Gentile Christians are not bound to circumcision, nor to the observance of the ceremonial Mosaic Law, but at the same time, he urged the advisability of conforming to certain ceremonies and of respecting certain of the scruples of their Jewish fellow-Christians (Acts 15:13 sqq.). On the same occasion, the "pillars" of the Church, James, Peter, and John "gave to me (Paul) and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision" (Galatians 2:9). He publicly commended the great charter of Gentile freedom from the Law, although he still continued the observance in his own life, no longer as a strict duty, but as an ancient, most venerable and national custom, trusting to "be saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 15:11). When afterwards some came from James to Antioch and led Peter into dissimulation (Galatians 2:12), his name was used by them, though he had given them no such commandment to enforce their interpretation of the concordat which, on his proposal, had been adopted at the Council of Jerusalem. When St. Paul after his third missionary journey paid a visit to St. James (A.D. 58), the Bishop of Jerusalem and "the elders" "glorified the Lord" and advised the Apostle to take part in the ceremonies of a Nazarite vow, in order to show how false the charge was that he had spoken of the Law as no longer to be regarded. Paul consented to the advice of James and the elders (Acts 21:1 sqq.). The Epistle of St. James reveals a grave, meek, and calm mind, nourished with the Scriptures of the Old Testament, given to prayer, devoted to the poor, resigned in persecution, the type of a just and apostolic man.
                        JAMES OUTSIDE OF THE SCRIPTURES
                        Traditions respecting James the Less are to be found in many extra-canonical documents, especially Josephus (Antiq., XX, ix, 1), the "Gospel according to the Hebrews" (St. Jerome, De vir. ill., II), Hegesippus (Eusebius, "Hist. eccl.", II, xxiii), the pseudo-Clementine Homilies (Ep. of Peter) and Recognitions (I, 72, 73), Clement of Alexandria (Hypot., vi, quoted by Eusebius, "Hist. eccl.", II, i). The universal testimony of Christian antiquity is entirely in accordance with the information derived from the canonical books as to the fact that James was Bishop of the Church of Jerusalem. Hegesippus, a Jewish Christian, who lived about the middle of the second century, relates (and his narrative is highly probable) that James was called the "Just", that he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor ate animal food, that no razor touched his head, that he did not anoint himself or make use of the bath, and lastly that he was put to death by the Jews. The account of his death given by Josephus is somewhat different. Later traditions deserve less attention.
                        Publication information Written by A. Camerlynck. Transcribed by WGKofron. With thanks to St. Mary's Church, Akron, Ohio The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII. Published 1910. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York
                        Bibliography
                        For bibliography see EPISTLE OF SAINT JAMES; Protoevangelium Jacobi and Liturgy of St. James.

                        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                        --- On Wed, 9/9/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                        Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Mary of Cleophas
                        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:25 PM



                        You know, looking at Mary of Cleophas, and because I do not see Lazarus at the cross, I see her in the place of the stepmother....and the two that are on the road it seems are Peter and Lazarus/Cleophas or I don't understand how those two can say that Peter saw the Lord unless it was right then and there on the road and then to the disciples...and it seemed to me where Peter is redeemed and how it can be said that the Lord appeared to Simon.

                        I think Cleophas may be a name change for the Stepmother....and so in John where we have Mother we have heavenly Sophia, in Cleophas we have the Stepmother who experienced a name change, and then the Magdalene....So, if we have Cleophas standing in and being united by Christ with Lazarus she stands for both of them...I always had a hard time with those who said Lazarus had to be hidden because of the controversy of being risen, and the reason why they wanted to stone Jesus in the end...for he had risen a man..this was the final reasoning was it not?
                         
                        So, it was Christ Jesus who saw Lazarus, and said 'the disciple whom the Lord loved' and without name, I think this might also have to do with the idea of him not being there at the cross. I never understood the physical mother Mary being there, but with the stepmother as Cleophas and now already united with Lazarus, something that actually might or most likely did occur at the raising, although the Lord states it at the crucifixion, we would have the Mother (Sophia) and Cleophas (Lazarus/Stepmother/now representing Sophia after being united with the heavenly Nathan Mary) but physically only Cleophas, and Magdalene. That's what I am considering.
                         
                        I always considered it to be the Magdalene who was walking with Cleophas because in John she is noted as a female. But I met with a lot of resistant that those two were females...but with Cleophas already noted as female, unless your looking at her husband, it had to be a female...but now I am thinking that at the cross we are looking at the female with Lazarus within and on the walk we are looking at Lazarus with Cleophas within walking with Peter...or how could they say that it was Simon who saw him first as it says in Luke...well, anyway that's what I am looking at....d

                        Mary of Cleophas

                        This title occurs only in John 19:25. A comparison of the lists of those who stood at the foot of the cross would seem to identify her with Mary, the mother of James the Less and Joseph (Mark 15:40; cf. Matthew 27:56). Some have indeed tried to identify her with the Salome of Mark 15:40, but St. John's reticence concerning himself and his relatives seems conclusive against this (cf. John 21:2). In the narratives of the Resurrection she is named "Mary of James"; (Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10) and "the other Mary" (Matthew 27:61; 28:1). The title of "Mary of James" is obscure. If it stood alone, we should feel inclined to render it "wife of (or sister of) James", but the recurrence of the expression "Mary the mother of James and Joseph" compels us to render it in the same way when we only read "Mary of James". Her relationship to the Blessed Virgin is obscure. James is termed "of Alpheus", i.e. presumably "son of Alpheus". St. Jerome would identify this Alpheus with Cleophas who, according to Hegesippus, was brother to St. Joseph (Hist. eccl., III, xi). In this case Mary of Cleophas, or Alpheus, would be the sister-in-law of the Blessed Virgin, and the term "sister", adelphe, in John 19:25, would cover this. But there are grave difficulties in the way of this identification of Alpheus and Cleophas. In the first place, St. Luke, who speaks of Cleophas (24:18), also speaks of Alpheus (6:15; Acts 1:13). We may question whether he would have been guilty of such a confused use of names, had they both referred to the same person. Again, while Alphas is the equivalent of the Aramaic, it is not easy to see how the Greek form of this became Cleophas, or more correctly Clopas. More probably it is a shortened form of Cleopatros.
                         
                         
                         
                        25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen. 26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own. 28 Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst. 29 Now there was a vessel set there, full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar about hyssop, put it to his mouth. 30 Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost.
                         
                        Luke 24:
                        And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. 3 And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this, behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel. 5 And as they were afraid and bowed down their countenance towards the ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, 7 Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and the third day rise again. 8 And they remembered his words. 9 And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 And it was Mary Magdalen and Joanna and Mary of James and the other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles. 11 And these words seemed to them as idle tales: and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter rising up, ran to the sepulchre and, stooping down, he saw the linen cloths laid by themselves: and went away wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.

                        13 And behold, two of them went, the same day, to a town which was sixty furlongs from Jerusalem, named Emmaus. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass that while they talked and reasoned with themselves, Jesus himself also, drawing near, went with them. 16 But their eyes were held, that they should not know him. 17 And he said to them: What are these discourses that you hold one with another as you walk and are sad? 18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleophas, answering, said to him: Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things that have been done there in these days? 19 To whom he said: What things? And they said: Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet, mighty in work and word before God and all the people. 20 And how our chief priests and princes delivered him to be condemned to death and crucified him. 21 But we hoped that it was he that should have redeemed Israel. And now besides all this, to-day is the third day since these things were done. 22 Yea and certain women also of our company affrighted us who, before it was light, were at the sepulchre, 23 And not finding his body, came, saying that they had all seen a vision of angels, who say that he is alive. 24 And some of our people went to the sepulchre and found it so as the women had said: but him they found not. 25 Then he said to them: O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all things, which the prophets have spoken. 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things and so, to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the scriptures the things that were concerning him. 28 And they drew nigh to the town whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther. 29 But they constrained him, saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them. 30 And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread and blessed and brake and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened: and they knew him. And he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in the way and opened to us the scriptures? 33 And rising up, the same hour, they went back to Jerusalem: and they found the eleven gathered together, and those that were with them, 34 Saying: The Lord is risen indeed and hath appeared to Simon. 35 And they told what things were done in the way: and how they knew him in the breaking of bread.

                         
                         
                         


                        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner





                      • dottie zold
                        Alphaeus Home Library Literature & Language First Name Origins Gender: Masculine Usage: Biblical Pronounced: al-FEE-us   From Αλφαιος
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 10, 2009
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                          Alphaeus

                          Gender: Masculine
                          Usage: Biblical
                          Pronounced: al-FEE-us  

                          From Αλφαιος (Alphaios), the Greek form of a Hebrew name that meant "changing". In the New Testament this is the name of the fathers of the apostles James and Levi.


                          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

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