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Evolution - cultural vs biological

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  • at@ael...
    Peter Staudenmaier: For example, several of you seem to think that the term evolution means the same thing in biological and in cultural contexts, in natural
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 6, 2004
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      Peter Staudenmaier:
       For example, several of you seem to think that the term "evolution" means the same thing in biological and in cultural contexts, in natural and in historical contexts. That is a genuinely foolish belief, and when you make it public, other people are going to make fun of it.
       
      Daniel:
      OK, now I'm interested. How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution? What, exactly, is cultural evolution? For that matter, what is biological evolution? I've found that in discussions with Peter Staudenmaier, definitions can be quite flexible, so I have to ask what terms here are the basis for condescension and opprobrium.
       
      So Peter, please define:
      Cultural Evolution
      Biological Evolution
       
      Daniel Hindes
    • Peter Staudenmaier
      Slowly it dawns on me that several of you really do believe that cultural evolution and natural evolution are the same thing. Daniel, for instance, writes:
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 6, 2004
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        Slowly it dawns on me that several of you really do believe that cultural evolution and natural evolution are the same thing. Daniel, for instance, writes:
         
         
        "How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution?"
         
         
        Biological evolution is largely structured around natural selection, a process in which organisms reproduce genetic material within particular environments, and only a very small portion of the reproduced genetic material survives to maturity and reproduces itself in turn. That's a simplified summary of a complex process, but the general idea should be clear. This process largely accounts for speciation, for changes within populations, and for many morphological shifts over time. Nothing of the sort applies to cultural evolution, which is not hereditary, does not involve genes or species, and is not built around natural selection. Ideas are not organisms.
         
         
        Peter


         
        Peter Staudenmaier:
         For example, several of you seem to think that the term "evolution" means the same thing in biological and in cultural contexts, in natural and in historical contexts. That is a genuinely foolish belief, and when you make it public, other people are going to make fun of it.
         
        Daniel:
        OK, now I'm interested. How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution? What, exactly, is cultural evolution? For that matter, what is biological evolution? I've found that in discussions with Peter Staudenmaier, definitions can be quite flexible, so I have to ask what terms here are the basis for condescension and opprobrium.

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      • Patrick
        Dear Mr. Staudenmaier, Now this is really getting interesting! So, as you say, ideas are not organisms. Quite so. People are organisms and people have ideas.
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 7, 2004
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          Dear Mr. Staudenmaier,

          Now this is really getting interesting! So, as you say, ideas are not organisms. Quite so. People are organisms and people have ideas. So, I ask you, what is the relation between people and their ideas? Where do you think ideas come from? Are ideas disembodied from the people who think them? Could you also characterize what you mean by spirituality? Thanks.

          Patrick

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Peter Staudenmaier [mailto:pstauden@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:52 PM
          To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Evolution - cultural vs biological

          Slowly it dawns on me that several of you really do believe that cultural evolution and natural evolution are the same thing. Daniel, for instance, writes:
           
           
          "How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution?"
           
           
          Biological evolution is largely structured around natural selection, a process in which organisms reproduce genetic material within particular environments, and only a very small portion of the reproduced genetic material survives to maturity and reproduces itself in turn. That's a simplified summary of a complex process, but the general idea should be clear. This process largely accounts for speciation, for changes within populations, and for many morphological shifts over time. Nothing of the sort applies to cultural evolution, which is not hereditary, does not involve genes or species, and is not built around natural selection. Ideas are not organisms.
           
           
          Peter


           
          Peter Staudenmaier:
           For example, several of you seem to think that the term "evolution" means the same thing in biological and in cultural contexts, in natural and in historical contexts. That is a genuinely foolish belief, and when you make it public, other people are going to make fun of it.
           
          Daniel:
          OK, now I'm interested. How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution? What, exactly, is cultural evolution? For that matter, what is biological evolution? I've found that in discussions with Peter Staudenmaier, definitions can be quite flexible, so I have to ask what terms here are the basis for condescension and opprobrium.

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        • Patrick
          I still would like answers to my questions. ... From: Patrick [mailto:pgevans@surewest.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:23 PM To:
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 8, 2004
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            I still would like answers to my questions.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Patrick [mailto:pgevans@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:23 PM
            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Evolution - cultural vs biological

            Dear Mr. Staudenmaier,

            Now this is really getting interesting! So, as you say, ideas are not organisms. Quite so. People are organisms and people have ideas. So, I ask you, what is the relation between people and their ideas? Where do you think ideas come from? Are ideas disembodied from the people who think them? Could you also characterize what you mean by spirituality? Thanks.

            Patrick

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Peter Staudenmaier [mailto:pstauden@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:52 PM
            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Evolution - cultural vs biological

            Slowly it dawns on me that several of you really do believe that cultural evolution and natural evolution are the same thing. Daniel, for instance, writes:
             
             
            "How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution?"
             
             
            Biological evolution is largely structured around natural selection, a process in which organisms reproduce genetic material within particular environments, and only a very small portion of the reproduced genetic material survives to maturity and reproduces itself in turn. That's a simplified summary of a complex process, but the general idea should be clear. This process largely accounts for speciation, for changes within populations, and for many morphological shifts over time. Nothing of the sort applies to cultural evolution, which is not hereditary, does not involve genes or species, and is not built around natural selection. Ideas are not organisms.
             
             
            Peter


             
            Peter Staudenmaier:
             For example, several of you seem to think that the term "evolution" means the same thing in biological and in cultural contexts, in natural and in historical contexts. That is a genuinely foolish belief, and when you make it public, other people are going to make fun of it.
             
            Daniel:
            OK, now I'm interested. How does cultural evolution differ from biological evolution? What, exactly, is cultural evolution? For that matter, what is biological evolution? I've found that in discussions with Peter Staudenmaier, definitions can be quite flexible, so I have to ask what terms here are the basis for condescension and opprobrium.

            Mit schönen Grüßen von Yahoo! Mail.
            Mit dem Yahoo! Messenger können Sie Freunde noch schneller erreichen!

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