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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.

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  • dottie zold
    Wow. And what I had been thinking of today is that AdamKadmon could represent Lucifer....we don t hear much about that Being, but it is the archetype....well I
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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      Wow. And what I had been thinking of today is that AdamKadmon could represent Lucifer....we don't hear much about that Being, but it is the archetype...well I am not knowledeable because I haven't really looked at this but ....well I wonder if there are any thoughts of on this Being AdamKadmon that anyone has worked out....
       
      And its interesting to consider the three major religions, well the pushy ones:) ...well the ones who call Abraham, Father,.....and their relationship to Earth, Moon and Sun....and its interesting to consider that the Sun can be thought of as having reunited with the Earth in that Christ came.....
       
      Well, with this quote from the Esoteric Foundation:
       
      "On the Earth everything developed quite gradually, so that mankind, still without intellect or possibility of speech, arose out of the uncoordinated Earth mass. Now we ask: How did this come about? A plant too does not grow out of nothing. A seed must be planted into the Earth. This was also the case with the people who were there at that time. The human being too had grown up out of the Earth and for this a seed had to be there on the Earth. Once a similar being had already existed. This seed-man had arisen on the Old Moon. From there he passed over in the seed condition, went through a Pralaya and then appeared once more on the Earth."
       
      Dottie:...I am wondering if this 'seed man' we can be looking at Adamkadmon? I'm wondering the relationship of this Being to Lucifer....this is an incredible lecture Taz. I know you didn't want to get into the conversation but I am glad you took the time to do so.
       
      d

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

    • dottie zold
      Okay,  my question below was what had man lost and from the lecture it is the ability to self produce....okay.   You know I also think it is so
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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        Okay,  my question below was 'what had man lost' and from the lecture it is the ability to self produce....okay.
         
        You know I also think it is so interesting that my whole life I have been saying the plants are upside down, the trees specifically, and I feel so happy to see in the lecture it is because originally when we were plant like this is the form! Now I know how to share that with others instead of it being just an inspiration...that's funny.
        d

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Wed, 9/2/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

        From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 9:27 AM



        Hi Tarjie,
         
        I am reading your article as we have had our conversations back and forth regarding Islam. I am up to the place where we have the first 'Love and its meaning in the World' quote and I wonder if you or anyone else can answer me 'what is it that man had  possessed and was withdrawn from him'?
         
        "Lucifer's influence brought into humanity a certain element in consequence of which something that man had previously possessed was withdrawn from him. This new element led to a descent, a descent countered by the Mystery of Golgotha which made possible the payment of all debts. The Impulse of Golgotha was not given in order that the sins we have committed in evolution may be removed from us, but in order that what crept into humanity through Lucifer should be given its counterweight."
        I know this is not your point but it was something that hit me while I was reading your thoughts on Islam. I don't understand though your comment that the 'above' quotes on Love and its meaning in the World' show clearly the difference between Islam and Christianity.
         
        Thanks for the article and i wish Mr. Waage's comments were available in English I really do think they could add to the whole conversation abotu Islam and Christianity. I wonder if maybe one of the kids from the Youth Movement might be able to translate them. Does he have them on a website or anything?
         
        All good things,
        Dottie




      • dottie zold
        Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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          "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
           
          Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie

          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        • dottie zold
          Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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            "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
             
            Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie


            "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

          • dottie zold
            Hey Friends, below is the lecture that preceeds the lecture Tarjei offered yesterday:   http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051024p01.html   In considering
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 4, 2009
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              Hey Friends, below is the lecture that preceeds the lecture Tarjei offered yesterday:

               

              http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051024p01.html

               

              "In considering the physical-astral human being we are taken back into very distant times, when he was only present as an astral archetype, as an astral form. The astral man who was originally present was a formation unlike the present astral body, a much more comprehensive being. We can picture the astral body of those times by thinking of the earth as a great astral ball made up of astral human beings. All the Nature forces and beings which surround us today were at that time still within man, who lived dissolved in astral existence. All plants, animals and so on, the animal instincts and passions, were still within him. What the lion, and all the mammals, have within them today, was at that time completely intermingled with the human astral body, which then contained within it all the beings at present spread over the earth. The astral earth consisted of human astral bodies joined together like a great blackberry and enclosed by a spiritual atmosphere in which there lived devachanic beings.

              This atmosphere — astral air one might call it — which at that time surrounded the astral earth was composed of a somewhat thinner substance than the astral bodies of human beings. In this astral air lived spiritual beings — both lower and higher — among others the human Monads also, completely separated from the human astral bodies. This was the condition of the earth at that time. The Monads, which were already present in the astral air, could not unite with the astral bodies, for these were still too wild. The instincts and passions had first to be ejected. Thus through the throwing off of certain substances and forces possessed by the astral body, the latter gradually developed in a purer form. What had been thrown off however remained as separated astral forms, beings with a much denser astral body, with wilder instincts, impulses and passions.

              Thus there now existed two astral bodies: a less wild human astral body and an astral body that was very wild and opaque. Let us keep these strictly apart, the human astral body and what lived around it. The human astral body becomes ever finer and nobler, always throwing off those parts of itself it needed to expel, and these became ever denser and denser. In this way, when they eventually reached physical density, the other kingdoms arose: the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. Certain instincts and forces expelled in this way appeared as the different animal species."

              Dottie: What is so interesting to me, astounding really, is the idea that what is thrown off is now all around me. What I mean is that I can look around me and see in a new way, consider in a new way, people in my life, experiences I am having, obstacles and so forth. I can have a new relationship with these things that is more intimate and my responsibility to see in a more objective way.

               

              I think I am doing pretty well with seeing things more objective, at least really trying to get myself to the point day in and day out, kinda of a daily rucshaw (sp) in a way. But when I read this lecture here I see it in a whole new way. I can know that I have read it before, the concept that the higher beings help us in working out our karmic responsibilities, we have set it up so, more or less, that we will encounter those experiences necessary towards our ongoing development of consciousness. But suddenly it makes more sense.

               

              Just when I was struggling with this ever depressing idea of 'so what' after reading the lecture 13 offered by Taz, I look at the previous lecture and then my life begins to make more sense as it is so interelated with everyone and everything else around me. Now I know that but when reading lecture 13 and with how I had been feeling a bit lately, although struggling against it, I can find my relationship to this ongoing evolution that at some point recently was 'this thing is never ending' when I look at the back and forth of our incarnations.

               

              Now I can have a greater, a real appreciation, not one rooted in forgiveness nor in complacency, rather one rooted in an experience of knowing that this or these other people and experiences are directly related, feeling this relationship, to what I had thrown off up till now. Although that is a stretch from what Rudolf Steiner speaks of in this lecture 12 but at the same time I can see an ongoingness that allows me to make a real relationship, to my experiences from a more enlightened point of view. Leaving it in the abstract and just understanding within my mind works but the experience of really relating to these experiences has something freeing about it.

               

              This kinda of reminds me of the idea behind the movie Fight Club. Now I did not see it because I just can't do this kinda violence in images any longer and truth be I never really could, however the concept as I understand is the idea of fighting the various parts of oneself. And imagine that its not only oneself really but its other people who represent what one has thrown off of them that now comes to confront them.

               

              And to me this is how the students of Rudolf Steiner can be able to have a quick incarnation within a hundred years: there is this daily ruckshaw that takes place and then a rhythmic one that can occur yearly. Or so it seems to me.. In lecture 3 of Occult Science I think this can be seen. But the point is that if we can really build a relationship to those around us in a way that allows us to see them as representing what we threw off and now have to deal with we can move further in this development. And it must be how we can say 'brother what ails thee' is really finding out what ails me: for that which is in front of me is really me.

               

              All good things,

              Dottie


              "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner


            • dottie zold
              Friends, Elderberries is going to open next Saturday, September 12.......OH MY GOD....okay, all this time, since the beginning days, not years but days, of
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 4, 2009
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                Friends, Elderberries is going to open next Saturday, September 12.......OH MY GOD....okay, all this time, since the beginning days, not years but days, of finding Rudolf Steiner's work, I have been working to understand something that came towards me when I was sleeping and the numbers were 5457. I heard these numbers as some girl walked by my window in an apartment building I lived at on the beach. Each click of her heals I understood as 5457 and ever since then, 14 or so years now, I have been wanting to understand this and why it always stayed with me. I found something that relates to the Rosicrucians wtih the five and the four and the five and the seven but that just didnt' feel like i had found this little mystery out...and now look, 54 = 9 and 57 = 12 and I am opening my little store which I say is the first of many mini Goetheanums here in the states on 9/12 .....well that's pretty incredible adn now I forgot why I was writing.....wow....and we did a little soft opening on 8/22 and a dear friend had painted me a picture from his stay up in Maine, and it was marked 8/22 and I realized who he is from Steiner's day. And I really wanted to open Monday, Labor Day but the final inspections have not taken place although yesterday we passed the plumbing inspection. I tried to hard to open it before then... so hard and it was a part of this depression of feeling like it was never gonna end and never gonna open. Each day I would say 'oh next week we will be opening and i really really thought that. And one of the owners of another restaurant said to me yesterday 'I am not going to ask anymore as I feel embarrased to do so'.  And now it feels complete 5457! And you know! when I signed the lease 2/25 and when I got the keys 2/27 I realized obviously this is connected to Steiner's work but now I can look back to when I was 31 and woke up to 5457 and see this amazing, just amazing pathway that I laid out before me or was laid out before me....just incredible really, I mean how does this happen! I can remember writing back on the ARK about this 5457...it was during that time when I saw Michael in a rainbow cloud, his whole countenance was a cloud that was a rainbow, and experiencing the Christ...I mean really....oh boy..
                 
                Okay, good, the reason I am writing is because..wow..is because I am having a 'Lending Library' for those that would like to learn more or read some of Rudolf Steiner's works. And I would like to see if anyone has any books they would like to lend or purchase to offer to the Lending Library. I'd love to have those that you all found had something for you in the beginning.
                 
                Whew, d
                 
                p.s. Address is 7564 W. Sunset Boulevard, West Hollywood CA 90046
                Attention: Anthony

                "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                --- On Thu, 9/3/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 4:32 PM



                "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
                 
                Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
                 
                All good things,
                Dottie


                "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




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