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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.

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  • dottie zold
    Well, looking to the lecture you offered up on Karma 1 lecture 10, I found it very interesting to note the highlights that had been brought forth from those
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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      Well, looking to the lecture you offered up on Karma 1 lecture 10, I found it very interesting to note the highlights that had been brought forth from those followers of Mohammed even though, like everything in life, man will be tested by the Luciferic and Ahrimanic impulses in the world and they will be twisted. I don't think you can really include Turks in the Moslim tradition if we look at what Rudolf Steiner says about them....he actually differentiates them from Muhammeds' followers and it seems to me that blame, if there can be said to be any, with the hardening of thought within Islam can be directly placed to the Turks, which seems to me to be more of an Arabistic nature, then one closely tied to Mohammed.
       
      Again I think with sensing past the words and meeting the people and how they interpret the word, will give peopel a sense of how Mohammed sits within them. Through my Muslum friend I meet so many other friends of his and the one thing they all have in commone is a love for Mohammed and also a sense of rebellion to those who will tell them how to think. And they have a great love, responsibility, and devotion to people, family, friends, and their activities.
       
      If we use your quote below about 'away with the Trinity' we find the same thing in Christianity actually with the 'away with the Soul' in the Court of Constanople of 869. We find the same thing in Judaism with no Christ. They all did the same thing with 'away with the Trinity'.
       
      I'm glad you brought up this Sun Moon and Earth, as I have been thinking alot about it lately: who is the being of the Earth, has been my question. If we have Christ on the Sun, and we have Jehova, who is Jehova anyway, one of the Elohim right?, then who do we have at the center of the earth.....well it seems to me it must be Lucifer.
       
      All good things,
      Dottie

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Thu, 9/3/09, elfuncle <coolvibes@...> wrote:

      From: elfuncle <coolvibes@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:27 AM


      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/YoungDoctors/19240424a01.html

      "Just think how abstractly, how brutally, how heedlessly investigations are made into these things today and you will realize what is really lacking and has been killed, in spite of the fact that Arabism did conserve much of the wisdom, conscientiousness and skill of ancient times. It has been killed because Moon, Sun and Saturn — this Trinity which was then disguised as Father, Son and Spirit — disappeared and was repudiated by Arabian thought in Mohammedanism with the words: "Away with this Trinity. Mohammed proclaims only one God!" (Mohammed himself did not say this, but the Angel who inspired him, did. He was not one of the best Angels although he was a very wise one.) And so we see that all differentiations in the world are allowed to disappear; things which ought to be known are darkened and our medicine has become an Arabian-Mohammedan medicine. European humanity was incapable of discovering the truth. Today these things must be known or mankind will go to pieces."

      ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Course for Young Doctors, Lecture 4,Dornach, April 24, 1924, GA 316)

      T


      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think a good term to use is the Godhead versus God. We are not seperate from the Godhead. And the Godhead is not understood. The difficultly being for a group like Anthroposophy, and why we have such a division regarding the Tomberg influence with his Jesuit leanings, is that it can become 'Godless'. This is a big problem if you just take the understanding and use of the term God versus what is intended with term Godhead. Freemasons have the same issue, the ones who pride themselves on esotericm: Man at the center and no Godhead, God, and now even no Christ. This goes against what that form was founded for in the first place, in my experience.
      >  
      > Rereading the lectures Rudolf Steiner gave to the Priests regarding Revelations I was seeing the big issue specifically for anthros who pride themselves, and it is a pride I notice, pride themselves on their ability to think clearly about things, to discect things in a way. Issue is that the intellect is the one area that we are free in. And it is our wound in a sense that this is where the Ahrimanic beings look to infiltrate in any manner they can.
      >  
      > If we look to the beautiful quote you offer from Love and Its Meaning in the World we see that its not 'strenght/might, nor wisdom that saves the day, it is Love. And this Love streams forth from Christ into this earthly world and truthfully from all the Beings working with the Godhead. For me this means to bring understanding into the term God and to help direct it through Love, to its proper place within the form created by those who follow this God as if their own being has no ongoing development.
      >  
      > Arabism is different. This was brought about through the forces that oppose man. Muhammed saved his people, at that time, from becoming the backward people who could not find One God, and were still stuck in the nature religion. Sufism helps to merge an ongoing evolution within Islam that will be its redeeming in this earthly world. That's the way I can see it. He created, for any people who will be born into this religion, to be able to at the very least cultivate a deep love for God and little by little this will lead to the Christ, as the Christ is inherent within their own book as well, but of course in the dogmatic form, just like Christians, as the boy Jesus and his Mother Mary. They didn't remain the pagans of the middle east, nor did they become the Gypsys, they left that world towards the freedom inherent within the Godhead as was brought forth through the Christ at Golgotha, they found a form at the end of Gabriel's time. It was Gabriel that
      >  brought Muhammed the message.  Just as many Jews did not become Christians neither did what we now know as Islamists become Christians. But as Christ is in the world, we are born into Christ now, so too are the Muslims.
      >  
      > Arabism has to do with the anti Christ not Islam. Unfortunately for the Muslims though their leaders in the Church are just as bad as the Jesuits here now and the conservative Rabbis of the Jewish tradition. It's all vanity. But I see Christ making an inroad and I think alot of that has to do with the fact that Jesus is in their book, Mother Mary is mentioned more times than one would believe. So he's there and he didn't have to be there. But Muhammed included him. That's important. Whatever happened later on, just like what happened to Christianity, the founder's words are used to commit the most hideous crimes against humanity, without anyone lifting a finger until it becomes too inhumane for people to bare.
      >  
      > Thanks again for the readint links,
      >  
      > All good things,
      > Dottie
      > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      >




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    • elfuncle
      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051025p01.html In the earthly world Jahve represents that God who endows beings with the possibility of physical
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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        http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051025p01.html

        "In the earthly world Jahve represents that God who endows beings with the possibility of physical reproduction. Everything else (intellect) did not lie in the Jahve-Intention. If Jahve's intention alone had continued to develop, the human being would eventually have ceased to be able to reproduce himself, for the power of reproduction would have become exhausted. He would then only have been concerned with the creation of beautiful forms, for he was indifferent to what is inward, intellectual. Jehovah wished to produce beautifully formed human beings, like beautiful statues. His intention was that the power of reproduction should be continued until it had expended itself. He wanted to have a planet that only bore upon it beautiful but completely motionless forms. If the Earth had continued its evolution with the Moon within it, it would have developed into a completely rigid, frozen form. Jehovah would have immortalised his planet as a monument to his intention. This would doubtless have come about had not those Adepts, who had hastened beyond the Moon evolution now come forward. It was just at this time that they made their appearance. They had already developed on the Moon intelligence and the Spirit which we first developed on the Earth. They now took the rest of humanity into their charge and rescued them from the fate which otherwise would have befallen them. A new spark was kindled in the human astral body. Just at that time they gave to the human astral body the impetus to develop beyond this critical point. Jahve could now save the situation only by altering his manner of working. He created man and woman. What could no longer be contained in one sex was divided between the two sexes."

        (...............................................)

        "The Moon Adepts came to them and said: You must not follow Jehovah. He will not allow you to attain to knowledge but you should. That is the Snake. The Snake approached the woman, because she had the power to produce offspring out of herself. Now Jehovah said: Man has become like unto ourselves, and brings death into the world and everything connected with it.

        `Lucifer' is the name given to the Moon Adepts; they are the bestowers of human intellectuality. This they gave to the astral and physical bodies; had it been otherwise the Monads would not have been able to enter into them and the Earth would have become a planetary monument to Jehovah's greatness. By the intervention of the Luciferic principle human independence and spirituality were saved. Then Jehovah, so that man should not be completely spiritualised, divided the self-reproduction process into two parts. What would have been lost however if Jehovah had continued his work alone will reappear in the Sixth Root-Race, when man will have become so spiritualised that he will regain Kriya-shakti, the creative power of reproduction. He will be in the position to bring forth his own kind. In this way mankind was rescued from downfall.

        Through Jehovah's power man carries within himself the possibility of rigidifying. When one observes the three lower bodies we find that these bear within them the possibility of returning to the physical condition of the Earth. The upper parts: Atma, Buddhi, Manas, were only able to enter into human beings because the influence of the Snake was added. This gave man new life and the power to remain with the earthly planet. Reproduction however became bisexual and thereby birth and death entered into the world. Previously this had not happened."

        ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Foundations of Esotericism, Lecture 23, Berlin, 25th October, 1905, GA 93a)

        T


        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Well, looking to the lecture you offered up on Karma 1 lecture 10, I found it very interesting to note the highlights that had been brought forth from those followers of Mohammed even though, like everything in life, man will be tested by the Luciferic and Ahrimanic impulses in the world and they will be twisted. I don't think you can really include Turks in the Moslim tradition if we look at what Rudolf Steiner says about them....he actually differentiates them from Muhammeds' followers and it seems to me that blame, if there can be said to be any, with the hardening of thought within Islam can be directly placed to the Turks, which seems to me to be more of an Arabistic nature, then one closely tied to Mohammed.
        >  
        > Again I think with sensing past the words and meeting the people and how they interpret the word, will give peopel a sense of how Mohammed sits within them. Through my Muslum friend I meet so many other friends of his and the one thing they all have in commone is a love for Mohammed and also a sense of rebellion to those who will tell them how to think. And they have a great love, responsibility, and devotion to people, family, friends, and their activities.
        >  
        > If we use your quote below about 'away with the Trinity' we find the same thing in Christianity actually with the 'away with the Soul' in the Court of Constanople of 869. We find the same thing in Judaism with no Christ. They all did the same thing with 'away with the Trinity'.
        >  
        > I'm glad you brought up this Sun Moon and Earth, as I have been thinking alot about it lately: who is the being of the Earth, has been my question. If we have Christ on the Sun, and we have Jehova, who is Jehova anyway, one of the Elohim right?, then who do we have at the center of the earth....well it seems to me it must be Lucifer.
        >  
        > All good things,
        > Dottie
        >
        > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
        >
        > --- On Thu, 9/3/09, elfuncle <coolvibes@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: elfuncle <coolvibes@...>
        > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
        > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:27 AM
        >
        >
        >
        > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/YoungDoctors/19240424a01.html
        >
        > "Just think how abstractly, how brutally, how heedlessly investigations are made into these things today and you will realize what is really lacking and has been killed, in spite of the fact that Arabism did conserve much of the wisdom, conscientiousness and skill of ancient times. It has been killed because Moon, Sun and Saturn â€" this Trinity which was then disguised as Father, Son and Spirit â€" disappeared and was repudiated by Arabian thought in Mohammedanism with the words: "Away with this Trinity. Mohammed proclaims only one God!" (Mohammed himself did not say this, but the Angel who inspired him, did. He was not one of the best Angels although he was a very wise one.) And so we see that all differentiations in the world are allowed to disappear; things which ought to be known are darkened and our medicine has become an Arabian-Mohammedan medicine. European humanity was incapable of discovering the truth. Today these things must be known or
        > mankind will go to pieces."
        >
        > ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Course for Young Doctors, Lecture 4,Dornach, April 24, 1924, GA 316)
        >
        > T
        >
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I think a good term to use is the Godhead versus God. We are not seperate from the Godhead. And the Godhead is not understood. The difficultly being for a group like Anthroposophy, and why we have such a division regarding the Tomberg influence with his Jesuit leanings, is that it can become 'Godless'. This is a big problem if you just take the understanding and use of the term God versus what is intended with term Godhead. Freemasons have the same issue, the ones who pride themselves on esotericm: Man at the center and no Godhead, God, and now even no Christ. This goes against what that form was founded for in the first place, in my experience.
        > >  
        > > Rereading the lectures Rudolf Steiner gave to the Priests regarding Revelations I was seeing the big issue specifically for anthros who pride themselves, and it is a pride I notice, pride themselves on their ability to think clearly about things, to discect things in a way. Issue is that the intellect is the one area that we are free in. And it is our wound in a sense that this is where the Ahrimanic beings look to infiltrate in any manner they can.
        > >  
        > > If we look to the beautiful quote you offer from Love and Its Meaning in the World we see that its not 'strenght/might, nor wisdom that saves the day, it is Love. And this Love streams forth from Christ into this earthly world and truthfully from all the Beings working with the Godhead. For me this means to bring understanding into the term God and to help direct it through Love, to its proper place within the form created by those who follow this God as if their own being has no ongoing development.
        > >  
        > > Arabism is different. This was brought about through the forces that oppose man. Muhammed saved his people, at that time, from becoming the backward people who could not find One God, and were still stuck in the nature religion. Sufism helps to merge an ongoing evolution within Islam that will be its redeeming in this earthly world. That's the way I can see it. He created, for any people who will be born into this religion, to be able to at the very least cultivate a deep love for God and little by little this will lead to the Christ, as the Christ is inherent within their own book as well, but of course in the dogmatic form, just like Christians, as the boy Jesus and his Mother Mary. They didn't remain the pagans of the middle east, nor did they become the Gypsys, they left that world towards the freedom inherent within the Godhead as was brought forth through the Christ at Golgotha, they found a form at the end of Gabriel's time. It was Gabriel that
        > >  brought Muhammed the message.  Just as many Jews did not become Christians neither did what we now know as Islamists become Christians. But as Christ is in the world, we are born into Christ now, so too are the Muslims.
        > >  
        > > Arabism has to do with the anti Christ not Islam. Unfortunately for the Muslims though their leaders in the Church are just as bad as the Jesuits here now and the conservative Rabbis of the Jewish tradition. It's all vanity.. But I see Christ making an inroad and I think alot of that has to do with the fact that Jesus is in their book, Mother Mary is mentioned more times than one would believe. So he's there and he didn't have to be there. But Muhammed included him. That's important. Whatever happened later on, just like what happened to Christianity, the founder's words are used to commit the most hideous crimes against humanity, without anyone lifting a finger until it becomes too inhumane for people to bare.
        > >  
        > > Thanks again for the readint links,
        > >  
        > > All good things,
        > > Dottie
        > > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
      • dottie zold
        Wow. And what I had been thinking of today is that AdamKadmon could represent Lucifer....we don t hear much about that Being, but it is the archetype....well I
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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          Wow. And what I had been thinking of today is that AdamKadmon could represent Lucifer....we don't hear much about that Being, but it is the archetype...well I am not knowledeable because I haven't really looked at this but ....well I wonder if there are any thoughts of on this Being AdamKadmon that anyone has worked out....
           
          And its interesting to consider the three major religions, well the pushy ones:) ...well the ones who call Abraham, Father,.....and their relationship to Earth, Moon and Sun....and its interesting to consider that the Sun can be thought of as having reunited with the Earth in that Christ came.....
           
          Well, with this quote from the Esoteric Foundation:
           
          "On the Earth everything developed quite gradually, so that mankind, still without intellect or possibility of speech, arose out of the uncoordinated Earth mass. Now we ask: How did this come about? A plant too does not grow out of nothing. A seed must be planted into the Earth. This was also the case with the people who were there at that time. The human being too had grown up out of the Earth and for this a seed had to be there on the Earth. Once a similar being had already existed. This seed-man had arisen on the Old Moon. From there he passed over in the seed condition, went through a Pralaya and then appeared once more on the Earth."
           
          Dottie:...I am wondering if this 'seed man' we can be looking at Adamkadmon? I'm wondering the relationship of this Being to Lucifer....this is an incredible lecture Taz. I know you didn't want to get into the conversation but I am glad you took the time to do so.
           
          d

          "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        • dottie zold
          Okay,  my question below was what had man lost and from the lecture it is the ability to self produce....okay.   You know I also think it is so
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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            Okay,  my question below was 'what had man lost' and from the lecture it is the ability to self produce....okay.
             
            You know I also think it is so interesting that my whole life I have been saying the plants are upside down, the trees specifically, and I feel so happy to see in the lecture it is because originally when we were plant like this is the form! Now I know how to share that with others instead of it being just an inspiration...that's funny.
            d

            "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

            --- On Wed, 9/2/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

            From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
            To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 9:27 AM



            Hi Tarjie,
             
            I am reading your article as we have had our conversations back and forth regarding Islam. I am up to the place where we have the first 'Love and its meaning in the World' quote and I wonder if you or anyone else can answer me 'what is it that man had  possessed and was withdrawn from him'?
             
            "Lucifer's influence brought into humanity a certain element in consequence of which something that man had previously possessed was withdrawn from him. This new element led to a descent, a descent countered by the Mystery of Golgotha which made possible the payment of all debts. The Impulse of Golgotha was not given in order that the sins we have committed in evolution may be removed from us, but in order that what crept into humanity through Lucifer should be given its counterweight."
            I know this is not your point but it was something that hit me while I was reading your thoughts on Islam. I don't understand though your comment that the 'above' quotes on Love and its meaning in the World' show clearly the difference between Islam and Christianity.
             
            Thanks for the article and i wish Mr. Waage's comments were available in English I really do think they could add to the whole conversation abotu Islam and Christianity. I wonder if maybe one of the kids from the Youth Movement might be able to translate them. Does he have them on a website or anything?
             
            All good things,
            Dottie




          • dottie zold
            Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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              "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
               
              Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
               
              All good things,
              Dottie

              "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

            • dottie zold
              Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 3, 2009
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                "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
                 
                Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
                 
                All good things,
                Dottie


                "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

              • dottie zold
                Hey Friends, below is the lecture that preceeds the lecture Tarjei offered yesterday:   http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051024p01.html   In considering
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 4, 2009
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                  Hey Friends, below is the lecture that preceeds the lecture Tarjei offered yesterday:

                   

                  http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051024p01.html

                   

                  "In considering the physical-astral human being we are taken back into very distant times, when he was only present as an astral archetype, as an astral form. The astral man who was originally present was a formation unlike the present astral body, a much more comprehensive being. We can picture the astral body of those times by thinking of the earth as a great astral ball made up of astral human beings. All the Nature forces and beings which surround us today were at that time still within man, who lived dissolved in astral existence. All plants, animals and so on, the animal instincts and passions, were still within him. What the lion, and all the mammals, have within them today, was at that time completely intermingled with the human astral body, which then contained within it all the beings at present spread over the earth. The astral earth consisted of human astral bodies joined together like a great blackberry and enclosed by a spiritual atmosphere in which there lived devachanic beings.

                  This atmosphere — astral air one might call it — which at that time surrounded the astral earth was composed of a somewhat thinner substance than the astral bodies of human beings. In this astral air lived spiritual beings — both lower and higher — among others the human Monads also, completely separated from the human astral bodies. This was the condition of the earth at that time. The Monads, which were already present in the astral air, could not unite with the astral bodies, for these were still too wild. The instincts and passions had first to be ejected. Thus through the throwing off of certain substances and forces possessed by the astral body, the latter gradually developed in a purer form. What had been thrown off however remained as separated astral forms, beings with a much denser astral body, with wilder instincts, impulses and passions.

                  Thus there now existed two astral bodies: a less wild human astral body and an astral body that was very wild and opaque. Let us keep these strictly apart, the human astral body and what lived around it. The human astral body becomes ever finer and nobler, always throwing off those parts of itself it needed to expel, and these became ever denser and denser. In this way, when they eventually reached physical density, the other kingdoms arose: the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. Certain instincts and forces expelled in this way appeared as the different animal species."

                  Dottie: What is so interesting to me, astounding really, is the idea that what is thrown off is now all around me. What I mean is that I can look around me and see in a new way, consider in a new way, people in my life, experiences I am having, obstacles and so forth. I can have a new relationship with these things that is more intimate and my responsibility to see in a more objective way.

                   

                  I think I am doing pretty well with seeing things more objective, at least really trying to get myself to the point day in and day out, kinda of a daily rucshaw (sp) in a way. But when I read this lecture here I see it in a whole new way. I can know that I have read it before, the concept that the higher beings help us in working out our karmic responsibilities, we have set it up so, more or less, that we will encounter those experiences necessary towards our ongoing development of consciousness. But suddenly it makes more sense.

                   

                  Just when I was struggling with this ever depressing idea of 'so what' after reading the lecture 13 offered by Taz, I look at the previous lecture and then my life begins to make more sense as it is so interelated with everyone and everything else around me. Now I know that but when reading lecture 13 and with how I had been feeling a bit lately, although struggling against it, I can find my relationship to this ongoing evolution that at some point recently was 'this thing is never ending' when I look at the back and forth of our incarnations.

                   

                  Now I can have a greater, a real appreciation, not one rooted in forgiveness nor in complacency, rather one rooted in an experience of knowing that this or these other people and experiences are directly related, feeling this relationship, to what I had thrown off up till now. Although that is a stretch from what Rudolf Steiner speaks of in this lecture 12 but at the same time I can see an ongoingness that allows me to make a real relationship, to my experiences from a more enlightened point of view. Leaving it in the abstract and just understanding within my mind works but the experience of really relating to these experiences has something freeing about it.

                   

                  This kinda of reminds me of the idea behind the movie Fight Club. Now I did not see it because I just can't do this kinda violence in images any longer and truth be I never really could, however the concept as I understand is the idea of fighting the various parts of oneself. And imagine that its not only oneself really but its other people who represent what one has thrown off of them that now comes to confront them.

                   

                  And to me this is how the students of Rudolf Steiner can be able to have a quick incarnation within a hundred years: there is this daily ruckshaw that takes place and then a rhythmic one that can occur yearly. Or so it seems to me.. In lecture 3 of Occult Science I think this can be seen. But the point is that if we can really build a relationship to those around us in a way that allows us to see them as representing what we threw off and now have to deal with we can move further in this development. And it must be how we can say 'brother what ails thee' is really finding out what ails me: for that which is in front of me is really me.

                   

                  All good things,

                  Dottie


                  "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner


                • dottie zold
                  Friends, Elderberries is going to open next Saturday, September 12.......OH MY GOD....okay, all this time, since the beginning days, not years but days, of
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 4, 2009
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                    Friends, Elderberries is going to open next Saturday, September 12.......OH MY GOD....okay, all this time, since the beginning days, not years but days, of finding Rudolf Steiner's work, I have been working to understand something that came towards me when I was sleeping and the numbers were 5457. I heard these numbers as some girl walked by my window in an apartment building I lived at on the beach. Each click of her heals I understood as 5457 and ever since then, 14 or so years now, I have been wanting to understand this and why it always stayed with me. I found something that relates to the Rosicrucians wtih the five and the four and the five and the seven but that just didnt' feel like i had found this little mystery out...and now look, 54 = 9 and 57 = 12 and I am opening my little store which I say is the first of many mini Goetheanums here in the states on 9/12 .....well that's pretty incredible adn now I forgot why I was writing.....wow....and we did a little soft opening on 8/22 and a dear friend had painted me a picture from his stay up in Maine, and it was marked 8/22 and I realized who he is from Steiner's day. And I really wanted to open Monday, Labor Day but the final inspections have not taken place although yesterday we passed the plumbing inspection. I tried to hard to open it before then... so hard and it was a part of this depression of feeling like it was never gonna end and never gonna open. Each day I would say 'oh next week we will be opening and i really really thought that. And one of the owners of another restaurant said to me yesterday 'I am not going to ask anymore as I feel embarrased to do so'.  And now it feels complete 5457! And you know! when I signed the lease 2/25 and when I got the keys 2/27 I realized obviously this is connected to Steiner's work but now I can look back to when I was 31 and woke up to 5457 and see this amazing, just amazing pathway that I laid out before me or was laid out before me....just incredible really, I mean how does this happen! I can remember writing back on the ARK about this 5457...it was during that time when I saw Michael in a rainbow cloud, his whole countenance was a cloud that was a rainbow, and experiencing the Christ...I mean really....oh boy..
                     
                    Okay, good, the reason I am writing is because..wow..is because I am having a 'Lending Library' for those that would like to learn more or read some of Rudolf Steiner's works. And I would like to see if anyone has any books they would like to lend or purchase to offer to the Lending Library. I'd love to have those that you all found had something for you in the beginning.
                     
                    Whew, d
                     
                    p.s. Address is 7564 W. Sunset Boulevard, West Hollywood CA 90046
                    Attention: Anthony

                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

                    --- On Thu, 9/3/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                    From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
                    To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 4:32 PM



                    "Thus on the Earth we have to do with a force having the power of self-reproduction; Kriya-shakti. This power is only present on the Earth today in the very highest Mysteries. At that time everyone possessed it. Through this power man could reproduce himself; he then became divided into two halves with the result that two sexes came into being on the Earth": Esoteric Foundations
                     
                    Dottie: This above is what Hinduism is seeking to bring forth. Paramahansa Yogananda brought this to America in 1922. It's interesting that he made it here but not Rudolf Steiner. I think he has to be counted among the great Initiates of mankind. I recall seeing his painting and just bursting into tears for no reason at all. I was so shocked at my response. But now looking at the quote above by Rudolf Steiner and also taking into consideration the year Rudolf Steiner sought to bring forth the Threefold Impulse, and Paramahansa's impulse with Kriya Yoga I can better understand and I wonder now about how Hinduism slowly makes its way with Paramahansa Yoganada in the lead to the Christ.
                     
                    All good things,
                    Dottie


                    "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner




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