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Figure 8s

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  • dottie zold
    The infinity sign, the figure 8 is really a 6 and a 9 :) so it looks in Elderberries when we azured the place:))   d If there is something more powerful than
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 19 7:30 PM
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      The infinity sign, the figure 8 is really a 6 and a 9 :) so it looks in Elderberries when we azured the place:))
       
      d

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Wed, 8/19/09, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
      Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Yahweh and the (Godhead)
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:41 PM





      Hi Kim, thanks for the references. I think for me its important to read the lecture cycle or sometimes it does seem abstract and just information to me and I have this need to experience it as all connected within me or its just me repeating or just agreeing with a thing. Agreeing with a thing would be easier if I didn't have this personality that has to find a connection within me.
       
      Thanks for taking the time and again for the references, I look forward to reading them.
       
      All good things,
      Dottie

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:

      From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...>
      Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Yahweh and the (Godhead)
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 2:34 PM



      Kim 2:
      Jahve is not the Father, Jahve is neutrum, 'he' is the Monotheistic God, and that means he is both The Mother (Shekinah, Sophia), The Father, and The Son (Christ), in that sequence from low to high. You must not make any pictures of your God, but the european christians saw the Father in Jahve. Many Jews saw Shekinah when the talk were about Jahve, as she was the godly being nearest man.
       
      Dottie:
       
      Kim,  I understand that Jahve, God, is seen by and called by many names including El Shaddai, the many breasted one, by the Jews. We also have the Muslims who use the term which ends in a feminine turn as well. However when we work from the physical perspective we do also recognize a trinity.
       
      It seems to me that you do something i used to do which is put them all as one without a singular also element of activity.... Shekinah is not Yaweh in the sense you mention here in the earthly world. The Shekinah is the earthly presence of God, not Yaweh as in fullness, but a part of God that is experienced in the physical world in relations to man. We can not just lump them all together nor can we do what the Hindus do either. There are certain qualities that have to be taken into consideration when working in the earthly world. The Shekinah is the earthly presence of the God. Just as Christ came to the earth in physical form so too was/is the Shekinah here or at least so was she called, during the times of old. She too has transformed and we can see this through the Fifth Gospel with the Bat Kol.
       
      I don't know any Jews who confuse Yahweh with Shekinah. Shekinah is their Grace and connection to God is how I understand my Rabbi.
      Kim 3:
      I know, I just thought I didn't have to write all that.
      He is a servant of the God Jahve, but in his soul an echo of the threefold Christ-event lives on. In his soul is the knowledge: “As a prophet of Jahve I must above all things proclaim that in Jahve there lives the Christ who will later on fulfil the Mystery of Golgotha; the Christ who poured His enduring influence into the cosmos through His third experience at the end of the Atlantean time.” Elijah proclaimed the Christ-filled Jahve. For the Christ was indeed living in Jahve, the Jahve-god, but as a reflection of Himself. As the moon reflects the sunlight, so did Jahve reflect the Being who then lived as Christ. Christ caused his Being to be reflected from Jahve or the Jahve-god. But a messenger such as Elijah worked in the after-effects of the threefold Christ-event; we might say that Elijah went ahead of the Nathan Jesus-being, who was passing spiritually from West to East in order to find his way into the course of civilisation and then to be born as one of the Jesus-children.
       
      Dottie:
      Kim, where is this reference from if you can? I don't see things in this manner with the lumping together.... again I used to see things this way but then I had to consider from an earthly perspective so that it stays out of the abstract and can relate to humanity in consciousness.
      Kim 3:
      It's not abstract.
      This reference to the moon should get us to think on the female.
      ...
       
      Dottie:
      I don't agree that the human being of Elisha was female at all. Again if I have to consider the times that were lived in at that moment this could not be. That's not to say that at the time of Golgotha this being was not a female, but if I have to consider the way things move, especially with certain biographies and at what point, whether male or female, they are usually more prominant, and to me I have definitely recognized a pattern out of my own past biographies which are female which lead me to this understanding, in one sex or the other, not in both. For example, if one large historical personality is found in the male stream a few times and is prominant usually this is how it will remain, same with certain female lineages, they are more prominant as females then when living a male life if they in fact had them.
      Kim 3:
      I don't see Elisha as female, I see him as the Chela of Elijah.
      The Moon Christ is reflected through is Shekinah/Sophia.
      Kim:

      They get three children: Cain, Abel, and Seth.
       
      Dottie: But Abel is not of Adam.
       
      Kim 2:
      Yes, Adam and Abel are sistersouls and both are children of Sophia/Eve. Adam is father to man, as he was man on the old Moon, he is what we started out as, where Abel/Jesus is what we were going to be.
       
      Dottie: Do you mean of Adam/Eve when they were one? What is your reference for Adam and Abel being sister souls? And if that was so....no, first let me know what is your reference for what is stated above when you have a second. And on your second sentence, when you say Adam is father to man, are you speaking of Adam/Eve known as male female created he them, or are you speaking of Adam as seperate from Eve the female....
      Kim 3: Adam as separate Androgyne result of the Angels development on the Old Moon. Christ is known by Adam 2 (Smith).
      Okay, Kim, have you read Genesis? At what number are you speaking of here when you make the statements directly above? Maybe that will help us out. I can't follow you when you don't have references and only your thoughts...I need references so I can see where you are moving to and from....and let me ask you, what led you to consider Adam and Abel as sister souls, what was the ;process?
       
       
      Kim:
      Who is then Abel, who didn't incarnate on Earth? It's the Nathan Jesus who first incarnates when his sister-soul Adam has ended his job as teacher of mankind. He gave over his mantle to Elisha, before he went East.

      Dottie:
      I think there is some confusion here...lets see....hmmm if I have to think of one ending their teaching lives it could only be Zarathustra. ...who is said to have been able to reincarnte immediately and also with completely new sheaths...now I don't know that for myself but that is something that was brought forth by Sergei in the John book and I don't recall what his Steiner reference is although I am sure he has one as always....
      Why would we say that John the Baptist ended his teaching life when he clearly goes onward....what are you thinking?
      Kim 3:
      Just after Elisha has done his master job as Hiram Abif, Budha raises from Bodhisatva to Buddhahood. Generally we only hear about Adam/Elijah/John B. until Golgotha, with really few exceptions, and about Buddha after Golgotha until he makes the Christ Deed on Mars.
      Kim 2:
      Zarathustra is interesting.
      The being behind Zarathustra could very well be female. We know that Zarathustra is an Sun Initiate, and I am pretty sure that it means the level of Angel (or Arch Angel).
      Middle east sources say that Abraham and Zarathustra is the same.
       
       
      Dottie: What middle east source are you speaking of? It's  not important that the being behind Zarathustra is female or not as this really is just a consideration of 'receiving' and not of importance in the higher worlds in the sense here on earth.
      Kim 3:
      Wikipedia: This name Bram, Abram, was famous in India and Persia: some learned men even allege that he was the same legislator as the one the Greeks called Zoroaster. :
      No, even if Zarathusthra is the Earthly form of Sophia?
      Zarathustra seems to me to be of the highest order and I just cannot see it any other way...I take him back usually to Enoch but that was an early consideration when looking at pre earthly conditions and the being that carried that was the highest initiate and able to continue to  unite with and lead those who were destined for earthly humanity...he comes from Atlantis and had to change his Being in order to unite with us, he had to have a transformation, and then, if we consider Sergei's words we see him also transforming right at the Turning Point in Time by being able to cast off his etheric and astral bodies and create a whole new one and incarnate immediately. ..I mean who else in earthly conditions have we heard of in that manner....He was not Moses/Noah and he was not Elijah/John, two who were walked with God but he could and I do think he did, go back to Enoch.
      Kim 3:
      I connect Skythianos with Enoch.
      Following Enoch is the mystery and I can think of none higher than Zarathustra. ..the term Eoch itself means 'initiation' . If you check out Enoch in Genesis you will find his incarnation and then who he begats but it doesn't say how long he lived and then you hear of Lamech and who he begat and how long he lived, and you also hear of him wounding a man, interesting, and then after a few more beings, you hear of Enoch again. Now, I had to go back and see why I was seeing Enoch again....hmmm I almost wonder if in between these two we will find the two that he gave his etheric and astral bodies too...who was that....Hermes and Moses right???  Yes ??? well, in any case, when you see Enoch a second time on the next page you realize that the person he begat has the same name on the previous Enoch page but it is now a feminine ending on the name....there is a significance to that.....
       
      Anyhow, point being is that Zarathustra is the most initiated in earthly and heavenly worlds that I can find in our studies...I can almost find a Count Saint Germain in there but I have to not go there in any case.....
       
      Kim:
      Abraham is initiated at the third Deed of Christ.
      Steiner mentions Orpheus in connection with this deed, and he says something which have mystified Anthroposophists for long. He said that Orpheus had problems  incorporating the feminine [large amount] in his incarnation. Who would have this problem? A woman born as man!
       
      Dottie:
       
      Kim, where is this reference about Orpheus? And we have to remember what Orpheus did that might have a clue as to why. But why is this a problem or mystery in any case....And what do you mean 'a woman born as a man'........ are you putting a feminine and masculine element to our I Ams? I don't understand.
      Kim 3:
      A Son of Apollo bore within him as soul what Mysticism designates by the symbol of the ‘feminine’ element; he could not bear all of it within him, because it was in another world. His own feminine soul element was itself in another world to which he had no access but for which he longed, because a part of himself was there. This marvellous inner tragedy of the reincarnated Teacher of former times has been wonderfully preserved in Greek Mythology under the name of ‘Orpheus’ — the name given to the reincarnated Apollo, or “Son of Apollo.”
      ...
      Thus in this incarnation of Apollo as Orpheus, we have again a sort of descent of a Bodhisattva — if we may use this Eastern term — to Buddha-hood. We might quote a number of such Beings who stand out from age to age as the great Teachers of humanity and who always had a very special experience at the time of their deepest descent. The Buddha experiences the bliss of inspiring the whole of humanity. That Bodhisattva, whose memory is preserved externally under the name of ‘Apollo,’ had an individual experience: he was to prepare the individuality, the quality of the Ego. He experiences the tragedy of the Ego; he experiences the fact that this ego is, in the present state of man as regards this attribute of his, not entirely with him. Man is struggling up to the higher ego. That was foreshadowed for the Greeks by the Buddha or Bodhisattva in Orpheus.  
      From "The Christ Impulse and the Development of the Ego-Consciousness, LECTURE 1. Berlin, 25th October, 1909. THE SPHERE OF THE BODHISATTVAS"
      Kim 





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