Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Judith von Halle
- Frank, again, I actually thought I was at odds with Sergei over Ms. von Halle as I had heard the Vorstand supported her...I just heard with everyone on this list late last year, and maybe from Ottmar who was calling him a liar or noting some book that was calling him a liar...or actually maybe it was you with the crude picture of someone kicking someone in the pants and letting us know about someone who had written an article...that was the first I had heard of Prokofieff's view.I did not jump the gun. If you understand the Jesuit practices, and I am sure those on this list who are Tomberg followers can easily attest to the tone of the books and the practices, then you can understand easily what also accompanied her endeavors to experience the pain of Christ Jesus. That is clearly my take and although I was uncomfortable with the stigmata and its implications for todays time, and also what I had heard from others who had attended her lectures and felt she was a lovely girl and were a bit bothered by what seemed like no freedom in her journey with this stigmata.I have never doubted her stigmata but I have doubted her method has been clearly spoken forth in regards to the practices....And after having read the little that I did from the rebuttal of Sergei's remarks, from your report I believe, his thinking is right in line with my understanding of the situation from my own studies.There is a penetrating downwards when it seems to me there should be a penetrating upwards...and who knows this gals journey, maybe along the way she will keep course correcting herself to where it is right in line where it should be.All good things,Dottie
"If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Frank Thomas Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
From: Frank Thomas Smith <eltrigal78@...>
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Judith von Halle
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 9:40 AM--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
> Hi Frank,
> Did you meet her?
Just got back and no Kim, I didn't. According to her group's website she was somewhere else during that time.
> --- In email@example.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> <eltrigal78@> wrote:
> > Neither do I have any strong opinions about Judith von Halle, because
> I do not know her personally and I don't see how anyone can either
> accept or reject her claim to having stigmata and permanent fasting
> without knowing her. I don't know if Prokofieff knows her, but I doubt
> it. His position seems to be that the stigmata phenomenon is atavistic
> and therefore incompatible with with anthroposophy, whereas Judith
> closely associates herself with anthroposophy. I think that Dottie
> jumped the gun in associating her with Tomberg or the Catholic Church.
> In the two books by her I've read - "Und wäre Er nicht
> auferstanden..." ("And had He not resurrected..."and the one about the
> Christ statue at the Goetheanum - the former being the most interesting)
> there is no mention that I can remember of either Tomberg or the
> Catholic Church. Dottie's prejudice may have to do with the fact that
> Prokofieff rejects her and that previous known stigmatics were
> Catholics, such as Anne Catherine Emmerich
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich ---unless she knows
> something I don't. Btw, I expect to be in Berlin sometime this year and
> will try to meet her.
> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "elfuncle" coolvibes@
> > >
> > > I backtracked this thread to Frank's original post before the circus
> > > kicked in and everything went haywire (and I certainly take my share
> > > blame for that), but here are my comments:
> > >
> > > I don't have any strong opinions one way or another about Judith von
> > > Halle's stigmata, just like I had no strong opinions about the claim
> > > made some years ago by a Swedish lady that she was the reincarnation
> > > Anne Frank. Controversial claims come with the territory what
> > > science is concerned, and students of anthroposophy, whether they
> > > personally involved in anthroposophical work (medicine, agriculture,
> > > education) or not, are all free to form their own private
> > > if anyone likes to call such a claim "the end of anthroposophy,"
> > > end of civilization," or "the end of the universe," they're free to
> > > so. It doesn't mean that it's the end of anarchosophy or the death
> > > Uncle Taz, for instance. It's more like that song with Crosby and
> > > Sinatra, "Have you heard, it's in the stars / Next July we collide
> > > Mars / Did you ever....."
> > >
> > > I seem to recall that according to RS, Francis of Assissi possessed
> > > astral body of Christ, which made it possible for him to go through
> > > incredible transformation as a young man, and to have a healing
> > > upon Europe to the extent that he actually stopped the spread of
> > > leoprosy, and close to the very end of this life, he identified
> > > with his Savior so strongly that he got the stigmata.
> > >
> > > I have too little knowledge of Judith von Halle's personal holiness
> > > have any opinion about it one way or another, except that I don't
> > > she'll bring an end to civilization and anthroposophy and cause the
> > > to go nova, unless she's so hot that she's responsible for global
> > > warming.
> > >
> > > The problem with the Catholic church is that it goes against
> > > and also against spiritual science, by pushing a system of
> > > that goes contrary to natural and spiritual laws and is therefore an
> > > offense against the Spirit of the Age.
> > >
> > > Tarjei
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In email@example.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> > > <eltrigal78@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A couple of issues ago in "Das Goetheanum" a guy named Dietrich
> > > wrote a review of Sergei Prokofieff's latest book: "Das Mysterium
> > > Auferstehung im lichte der Anthroposophie" (The Resurrection Mystery
> > > the Light of Anthroposophy), in which he criticized the part of the
> > > dealing with the stigmata phenomenon. Basically Prokofieff says it
> > > atavistic and has nothing to do with anthroposophy. But he only uses
> > > examples from the past, not mentioning Judith von Halle, the current
> > > stigmatized anthroposophist. So Rapp calls him dishonest, as he is
> > > obviously referring to Judith without naming her. Then in a later
> > > Prokofieff answers the criticism saying that he only wanted to be
> > > objective without personalizing. He also says stigmatization has no
> > > place in Anthroposophy and von Halle's claim that she bears the
> > > resurrection body means, for him, "the end of anthroposophy". So
> > > replies in the same issue saying that S.P. is shutting someone out
> > > without even knowing her. These are long letters, so this is the
> > > synopsis, the object of which is only to inform y'all that Judith is
> > > still a hot topic yonder.
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > >
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- Not too long ago women were burned at the stake or hung for being witches. Evidence was based on certain demonic animals, such as black cats, were attracted to them or if they had strangely shaped moles on their bodies. It is obvious that none of these things are remotely connected to witchcraft. I would say that your sudden toxicity to the "buggers" has just as much (nothing) to do with Judith von H. Or perhaps you're a witch as well as a farmer and a veterinarian. (Don't mind me, I can't help it.)
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "arethoresen@..." <arethoresen@...> wrote:
> Dear friends,
> there is a phenomenon I would like to discuss with you all, and also hear if this phenomenon has been observed earlier.
> I am a farmer, and each year I have been attached by numerous Ixodes ricinus (8-legd parasites).
> After listening to a lecture by Judith von Halle, a radical change occured. All the parasites biting me died during 2 hours. I have become toxic to the small buggers.
> Was this because the meeting with Judith had strengthened my "Ich-Kraft"??