Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Earth as Sun 2
- Sue, what do you mean by Auric Star?All good things,Dottie
"If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Sue Mohler <xochinesecresteds@...> wrote:
From: Sue Mohler <xochinesecresteds@...>
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Earth as Sun 2
Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 3:57 PM
Hi All - Dottie, I have read with interest the excerpts of the Countess' Conversation. I cannot recall where I read it...I think it may have been a Prokofieff book, but I remember reading that we already have our "Good Auric Star" within our hearts...? Do you have any insights on this? I have not been able to find the reference. Thanks Sue Mohler dottie zold wrote: > > Okay, here is the final part of this 'Esoteric Conversation with > Countess Johanna from the Interior of the Earth book: > > What I had experienced had been so real – and yet I did not want to > lapse into fantasies. I had written down my questions. Rudolf Steiner > read them aloud: ‘Where can we find the land Shambhalla? I can imagine > it somewhat as follows: in the beginning there was fire and light. > These took their strength from one another – reciprocally in complete > harmony. Then the light rejected the forces of fire; and the smoke, > which was thereby hindered from rising into the light, fought back and > accumulated above the fire. Thus, the primeval fire was gradually > covered over by the ashes from the smoke. The ashes from the primeval > fire form the mineral part of our earth’. > > Rudolf Steiner paused once more: ‘What you have written is correct’, > then he continued to read: ‘We human beings, however, have to > rediscover the connection to our origin, otherwise we shall become > more and more excluded from life and will solidify with the minerals > of the earth. If my assumption is correct we must start to penetrate > the depths to the golden ground of the world. The way leads through > the darkness, through the layers of smoke which envelope the living > fire. The earth layers of the mineral world are permeated with the > kamaloka of our soul life’. > > ‘Yes, that is correct,’ said Rudolf Steiner, who continued to read: > ‘There we meet with everything which connects the mineral darkness to > the hell of our souls. When we step out of the human world – which can > occur even while the body continues to exist on earth – then we arrive > in the land of the dead. When the dead person has accomplished his > kamaloka, he rises to the starry worlds. I would think, though, that > if it were possible to achieve such a state of sinlessness in kamaloka > and, instead of rising upwards, one were to remain in the depths, > would not the golden gates of the realm of fairyland open once more > for the petitioning soul? > > Rudolf Steiner added: ‘Yes, that is possible’. > > I: ‘And is the interior of the earth made out of that gold which comes > from the hollow cavity in the sun and which is destined to return there’? > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, the interior of the earth is of gold’. > > Then he put down the paper. Still I continued to question him for my > assurance. > > ‘Her Doctor, when I am standing here on earth’, and I pointed to my > green carpet, ‘then the golden land is beneath me, deep in the > interior of the earth – and if I now attain to sinlessness and remain > in the depths, the demons will not be able to harm me and I will be > able to penetrate beyond them – and reach the golden land? ‘ > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘If one passes through them accompanied by Christ, the > demons will not be able to harm you – but otherwise they would indeed > be able to destroy you’! He added emphatically: ‘They can, however, > become our helpers. Yes, that is so – the path is a true one, but it > is very difficult’! I knew now that my investigation had been on the > right lines, but this path was a ‘very difficult’ one. > > It was Holderlin who had shown me his path. For years his astral > forces had led me. I had climbed after him through the depths of fire > and death until he found the way out to the light, the way out of > imprisonment. He, who even left the earth in order to search for the > Gods, ‘…for to be alone and without the Gods was death to him’, knows > the Christ in the depths. So he does not rise up to the stars as other > dead people do. No, he prefers to penetrate to the depths, to the Sun > Being at the centre of the earth. > > The indication by Rudolf Steiner that what I had seen was the truth, > but ‘very difficult’, left me wondering, and it seemed to me that he > meant that there was a different way for the pupils of Michael. Now it > has been granted, through the help of Michael, that the Christ who > appears in the etheric realm of the earth will illumine our eyes to > see the lost magical land. Then this land will rise up to us and man > will bond himself to a new world – day in the light of the sun, when > he sets free from their enchantment the spirits of the elements who > have darkened his vision and rendered the earth solid and opaque. > > In Rudolf Steiner’s Mystery Drama /The Guardian of the Threshold > /Ahriman says: ‘The gods, however, willed to rule on earth, and from > their kingdom they did one day thrust my power into the depths of the > abyss … and thus ‘this only from this place that I dare send out my > powerful strength upon the earth. But in this way my power turns into > fear’. And Capesius calls out: ‘Oh, in the depths dark fear > threatening’! The spirit – pupil must, therefore, be aware of the fact > that whoever penetrates into the depths has to pass through Ahriman’s > kingdom and the beings of that kingdom touch him! > > As well as thinking and feeling the Being of Christ who united the > earth through His death, one must also strive to become a brother of > the divine Christ in order to attain in a full and living way the rays > of victory which await us beyond the darkness. The spirit pupil > thereby gains a weapon to protect him: the reality and power of > perceptive consciousness! Perception of the laws of light is the > shield which, in the hour of danger, is ready at hand. The spirit > pupil who would dare to journey on the road into the depths must be in > possession of that knowledge which ensures victory through Christ. > > I then asked Rudolf Steiner if we would be exposed to destruction by > the demons: if they always have to destroy everything or whether we > can be taken into the protection of Christ. He replied: ‘When we have > entered into the circle of the sun the demons will no longer be able > to harm us’. > > My next question was also related to the primeval depths. I asked him > what substance kept the primeval fire alight, for where there is fire > there must first be substance, and so the primeval fire is not the > beginning which produces original life out of itself. Rudolf Steiner > replied: ‘No, it is different – it is not so in this case. On earth > there has to be material for fire to burn. But the primeval fire burns > spontaneously; it is its own substance and being! Substance only came > later and was added to the Fire’. > > I: ‘then is the primeval sun of Ptolemy, which he perceived in the > centre of the earth as the creative ground of the world, the golden > fairyland Shambhalla’? > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes – and midnight conceals it’. > > Then I presented Rudolf Steiner with the diagram (next page) and > asked: ‘Can one draw it like this’? He answered: ‘Yes, one can do that’. > > ‘The festivals’, I said, ‘are always at the points where a new > spiritual current enters in and relieves an old one. The Father is > succeeded by the Son and the latter is succeeded by the powers of the > Holy Spirit’. Rudolf Steiner then asked me what I called the three > uppermost points and I answered that they were assigned to Easter, > Pentecost and St. John’s Day. Then I stopped because I did not know > what to call the lower point on the right and the one at the bottom. > He pointed to the lowest apex: ‘What do you call this’? > > ‘The journey of Faust to the Mothers’, I answered. > > ‘Yes’, said Rudolf Steiner, ‘on November 9’, and added: ‘And here, on > 24 September, the Festival of Persephone was celebrated by the Greeks’. > > I then put several questions connected to what had been spoken about > during the last few days, and which could not be separated from it in > my view. I only wish to recount a few of these questions here, ones > which might provide confirmation to one or other of us who are > investigating these things further. Rudolf Steiner asked me if I had > any further questions and I showed him my calculations in astronomy > and voiced my opinion as follows: ‘A completely new astronomy is > developing which has nothing at all to do with what one calls > astronomy today. I do not dare to work further on that until I know if > what I am writing is true’. > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘If you experience these things you have, then they > will be true. You only have to be quite sure in yourself, quite > selflessly true’. And, only audible to spirit ears, he added: ‘Because > these truths can only be experienced in selflessness’. > > I: ‘You told me Christ is the Divine Ego. So, is the earth the > physical body of Christ, the etheric world His etheric body and the > astral world His astral body? > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, of course’. > > I: ‘I see many things but, without having asked you, I surely cannot > say, for instance, that in the slag of cooled moon craters the dead > fire-forces of God’s adversaries are crouching and wrangling with Him’? > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘Why do you not like to say so, if you experience it > in that way’? > > *** > > When Rudolf Steiner was with us the previous time he had said > something which had occupied me a great deal, since here on earth one > can close an inner door, but in the spiritual world it is different: > ‘On Sirius one hears everything that people think’. I studied all I > could to gain a grasp of the identity of Sirius. Mythology only > revealed that it was the star of Zarathustra, and stands as Isis in > the constellation of the Dog. Neither did the Astronomical Course (The > Relationship of the Diverse Branches of Natural Science to Astronomy) > give me any information about the secrets of Sirius. Then I thought > that I should tackle this question from a different angle and > formulated it according to my own ideas as follows: Where is the > centre in which all human suffering and all human joy in heaven and in > the cosmos can be perceived? Then the answer sounded in my soul: it is > His heart – the heart of Jesus – Zarathustra in the earth’s depths of > midnight. I asked Rudolf Steiner about this and he said: ‘Sirius is > the heart of Jesus-Zarathustra and is in the depths of the earth’. > ‘The heart is in the deep’, said Jacob Boehme: in the depths of his > heart man also attains to the other Heart, which would bear with him > all his suffering and all his joy. Then Rudolf Steiner drew a simple > sketch and spoke slowly for me to take it down in writing: ‘Sirius is > the world-thought which Christ produces out of His Heart – therefore > it is to be found within the earth’. He drew a curve to represent the > earth and wrote on it, ‘Metabolism and fulfillment’, as though the > thoughts issuing from the Heart of Christ, that is from the sun, are > sent through Sirius to the centre of the earth, where they obtain > their fulfillment by means of metabolism. > > *** > > Rudolf Steiner also spoke to me at that time about ‘Creation out of > nothing’. I noted down the following: the interior of the earth > consists of gold, in which the highest hierarchy weaves. This interior > became dark: and Christ departed from the sun and, as the Saviour, > entered the golden centre of the earth. So is this new Creation a gift > to the earth out of nothingness, out of the hollow spaces within the > sun? For the solid earth – this body of the Gods – died at the moment > of Golgotha. Has a new Holy Host now been sent down from the hollow > space of the sun? > > Rudolf Steiner answered: ‘Not out of the hollowness, for that is > ‘nothingness’ isn’t it, the opposite of ‘somthingness’. The new Holy > Host issues forth from the reality behind the emptiness’. > > I: ‘And will the mineral slag of the divine corpse become the vessel > which begins to shine? Will all the mineral parts of the earth shine – > or will a part of it remain behind, dark and unredeemed’? > > Rudolf Steiner said: ‘All substance will be redeemed’. I then asked if > the moons of the planets will also be redeemed and he answered: ‘They > are the refuse, yet they will also be redeemed – all substance will be > redeemed’. > > I: ‘Is there any waste matter apart from the moons’? Rudolf Steiner: > ‘Yes, that will remain, but later on that too will be redeemed’. And > then, with great seriousness: ‘If everything were not to be redeemed, > that would mean that Ahriman would have triumphed. All substance will > gradually be redeemed after a very long time. If anything should be > lost, then Ahriman would be the victor’! > > I said: ‘I am also looking for the relationship of the Demiourgos > (world creator) to Ahriman’. He replied: ‘The Demiourgos is, so to > say, the young Ahriman’. > > I: ‘His building material is the mineral’? Rudolf Steiner nodded and I > continued: ‘And when the Demiourgos meets the Christ will this mineral > then become the Holy Grail? > > Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, that is correct’. > > > > /"If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the > human being who bears destiny unshaken."/ Rudolf Steiner > > > __._,_._ > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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- --- In email@example.com, dottie zold wrote:
> Ottmar, we had the good fortune to have Ehrenfried'sDottie, is this the same photo you posted here recently,
> original painting of the heart that is mentioned in the
> lecture: he stated that if one did not understand anything
> he said if they would but just ponder the painting they
> would understand. I walked up to the painting and just
> began sobbing for some strange reason. I have a photo
> of the painting and will put it in my photo part on AT.
> I want to have it professionaly photographed and put to
> the proper size for all future conferences as it is quite incredible.
> All good things,
in one of your messages? I couldn't find it in the photo
section. Please let us know where we can find it!
> "If there is something more powerful than destiny,
> this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken."
> Rudolf Steiner