Hi All -
Dottie, I have read with interest the excerpts of the Countess'
Conversation. I cannot recall where I read it...I think it may have been
a Prokofieff book, but I remember reading that we already have our "Good
Auric Star" within our hearts...? Do you have any insights on this? I
have not been able to find the reference.
dottie zold wrote:
> Okay, here is the final part of this 'Esoteric Conversation with
> Countess Johanna from the Interior of the Earth book:
> What I had experienced had been so real – and yet I did not want to
> lapse into fantasies. I had written down my questions. Rudolf Steiner
> read them aloud: ‘Where can we find the land Shambhalla? I can imagine
> it somewhat as follows: in the beginning there was fire and light.
> These took their strength from one another – reciprocally in complete
> harmony. Then the light rejected the forces of fire; and the smoke,
> which was thereby hindered from rising into the light, fought back and
> accumulated above the fire. Thus, the primeval fire was gradually
> covered over by the ashes from the smoke. The ashes from the primeval
> fire form the mineral part of our earth’.
> Rudolf Steiner paused once more: ‘What you have written is correct’,
> then he continued to read: ‘We human beings, however, have to
> rediscover the connection to our origin, otherwise we shall become
> more and more excluded from life and will solidify with the minerals
> of the earth. If my assumption is correct we must start to penetrate
> the depths to the golden ground of the world. The way leads through
> the darkness, through the layers of smoke which envelope the living
> fire. The earth layers of the mineral world are permeated with the
> kamaloka of our soul life’.
> ‘Yes, that is correct,’ said Rudolf Steiner, who continued to read:
> ‘There we meet with everything which connects the mineral darkness to
> the hell of our souls. When we step out of the human world – which can
> occur even while the body continues to exist on earth – then we arrive
> in the land of the dead. When the dead person has accomplished his
> kamaloka, he rises to the starry worlds. I would think, though, that
> if it were possible to achieve such a state of sinlessness in kamaloka
> and, instead of rising upwards, one were to remain in the depths,
> would not the golden gates of the realm of fairyland open once more
> for the petitioning soul?
> Rudolf Steiner added: ‘Yes, that is possible’.
> I: ‘And is the interior of the earth made out of that gold which comes
> from the hollow cavity in the sun and which is destined to return there’?
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, the interior of the earth is of gold’.
> Then he put down the paper. Still I continued to question him for my
> ‘Her Doctor, when I am standing here on earth’, and I pointed to my
> green carpet, ‘then the golden land is beneath me, deep in the
> interior of the earth – and if I now attain to sinlessness and remain
> in the depths, the demons will not be able to harm me and I will be
> able to penetrate beyond them – and reach the golden land? ‘
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘If one passes through them accompanied by Christ, the
> demons will not be able to harm you – but otherwise they would indeed
> be able to destroy you’! He added emphatically: ‘They can, however,
> become our helpers. Yes, that is so – the path is a true one, but it
> is very difficult’! I knew now that my investigation had been on the
> right lines, but this path was a ‘very difficult’ one.
> It was Holderlin who had shown me his path. For years his astral
> forces had led me. I had climbed after him through the depths of fire
> and death until he found the way out to the light, the way out of
> imprisonment. He, who even left the earth in order to search for the
> Gods, ‘…for to be alone and without the Gods was death to him’, knows
> the Christ in the depths. So he does not rise up to the stars as other
> dead people do. No, he prefers to penetrate to the depths, to the Sun
> Being at the centre of the earth.
> The indication by Rudolf Steiner that what I had seen was the truth,
> but ‘very difficult’, left me wondering, and it seemed to me that he
> meant that there was a different way for the pupils of Michael. Now it
> has been granted, through the help of Michael, that the Christ who
> appears in the etheric realm of the earth will illumine our eyes to
> see the lost magical land. Then this land will rise up to us and man
> will bond himself to a new world – day in the light of the sun, when
> he sets free from their enchantment the spirits of the elements who
> have darkened his vision and rendered the earth solid and opaque.
> In Rudolf Steiner’s Mystery Drama /The Guardian of the Threshold
> /Ahriman says: ‘The gods, however, willed to rule on earth, and from
> their kingdom they did one day thrust my power into the depths of the
> abyss … and thus ‘this only from this place that I dare send out my
> powerful strength upon the earth. But in this way my power turns into
> fear’. And Capesius calls out: ‘Oh, in the depths dark fear
> threatening’! The spirit – pupil must, therefore, be aware of the fact
> that whoever penetrates into the depths has to pass through Ahriman’s
> kingdom and the beings of that kingdom touch him!
> As well as thinking and feeling the Being of Christ who united the
> earth through His death, one must also strive to become a brother of
> the divine Christ in order to attain in a full and living way the rays
> of victory which await us beyond the darkness. The spirit pupil
> thereby gains a weapon to protect him: the reality and power of
> perceptive consciousness! Perception of the laws of light is the
> shield which, in the hour of danger, is ready at hand. The spirit
> pupil who would dare to journey on the road into the depths must be in
> possession of that knowledge which ensures victory through Christ.
> I then asked Rudolf Steiner if we would be exposed to destruction by
> the demons: if they always have to destroy everything or whether we
> can be taken into the protection of Christ. He replied: ‘When we have
> entered into the circle of the sun the demons will no longer be able
> to harm us’.
> My next question was also related to the primeval depths. I asked him
> what substance kept the primeval fire alight, for where there is fire
> there must first be substance, and so the primeval fire is not the
> beginning which produces original life out of itself. Rudolf Steiner
> replied: ‘No, it is different – it is not so in this case. On earth
> there has to be material for fire to burn. But the primeval fire burns
> spontaneously; it is its own substance and being! Substance only came
> later and was added to the Fire’.
> I: ‘then is the primeval sun of Ptolemy, which he perceived in the
> centre of the earth as the creative ground of the world, the golden
> fairyland Shambhalla’?
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes – and midnight conceals it’.
> Then I presented Rudolf Steiner with the diagram (next page) and
> asked: ‘Can one draw it like this’? He answered: ‘Yes, one can do that’.
> ‘The festivals’, I said, ‘are always at the points where a new
> spiritual current enters in and relieves an old one. The Father is
> succeeded by the Son and the latter is succeeded by the powers of the
> Holy Spirit’. Rudolf Steiner then asked me what I called the three
> uppermost points and I answered that they were assigned to Easter,
> Pentecost and St. John’s Day. Then I stopped because I did not know
> what to call the lower point on the right and the one at the bottom.
> He pointed to the lowest apex: ‘What do you call this’?
> ‘The journey of Faust to the Mothers’, I answered.
> ‘Yes’, said Rudolf Steiner, ‘on November 9’, and added: ‘And here, on
> 24 September, the Festival of Persephone was celebrated by the Greeks’.
> I then put several questions connected to what had been spoken about
> during the last few days, and which could not be separated from it in
> my view. I only wish to recount a few of these questions here, ones
> which might provide confirmation to one or other of us who are
> investigating these things further. Rudolf Steiner asked me if I had
> any further questions and I showed him my calculations in astronomy
> and voiced my opinion as follows: ‘A completely new astronomy is
> developing which has nothing at all to do with what one calls
> astronomy today. I do not dare to work further on that until I know if
> what I am writing is true’.
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘If you experience these things you have, then they
> will be true. You only have to be quite sure in yourself, quite
> selflessly true’. And, only audible to spirit ears, he added: ‘Because
> these truths can only be experienced in selflessness’.
> I: ‘You told me Christ is the Divine Ego. So, is the earth the
> physical body of Christ, the etheric world His etheric body and the
> astral world His astral body?
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, of course’.
> I: ‘I see many things but, without having asked you, I surely cannot
> say, for instance, that in the slag of cooled moon craters the dead
> fire-forces of God’s adversaries are crouching and wrangling with Him’?
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘Why do you not like to say so, if you experience it
> in that way’?
> When Rudolf Steiner was with us the previous time he had said
> something which had occupied me a great deal, since here on earth one
> can close an inner door, but in the spiritual world it is different:
> ‘On Sirius one hears everything that people think’. I studied all I
> could to gain a grasp of the identity of Sirius. Mythology only
> revealed that it was the star of Zarathustra, and stands as Isis in
> the constellation of the Dog. Neither did the Astronomical Course (The
> Relationship of the Diverse Branches of Natural Science to Astronomy)
> give me any information about the secrets of Sirius. Then I thought
> that I should tackle this question from a different angle and
> formulated it according to my own ideas as follows: Where is the
> centre in which all human suffering and all human joy in heaven and in
> the cosmos can be perceived? Then the answer sounded in my soul: it is
> His heart – the heart of Jesus – Zarathustra in the earth’s depths of
> midnight. I asked Rudolf Steiner about this and he said: ‘Sirius is
> the heart of Jesus-Zarathustra and is in the depths of the earth’.
> ‘The heart is in the deep’, said Jacob Boehme: in the depths of his
> heart man also attains to the other Heart, which would bear with him
> all his suffering and all his joy. Then Rudolf Steiner drew a simple
> sketch and spoke slowly for me to take it down in writing: ‘Sirius is
> the world-thought which Christ produces out of His Heart – therefore
> it is to be found within the earth’. He drew a curve to represent the
> earth and wrote on it, ‘Metabolism and fulfillment’, as though the
> thoughts issuing from the Heart of Christ, that is from the sun, are
> sent through Sirius to the centre of the earth, where they obtain
> their fulfillment by means of metabolism.
> Rudolf Steiner also spoke to me at that time about ‘Creation out of
> nothing’. I noted down the following: the interior of the earth
> consists of gold, in which the highest hierarchy weaves. This interior
> became dark: and Christ departed from the sun and, as the Saviour,
> entered the golden centre of the earth. So is this new Creation a gift
> to the earth out of nothingness, out of the hollow spaces within the
> sun? For the solid earth – this body of the Gods – died at the moment
> of Golgotha. Has a new Holy Host now been sent down from the hollow
> space of the sun?
> Rudolf Steiner answered: ‘Not out of the hollowness, for that is
> ‘nothingness’ isn’t it, the opposite of ‘somthingness’. The new Holy
> Host issues forth from the reality behind the emptiness’.
> I: ‘And will the mineral slag of the divine corpse become the vessel
> which begins to shine? Will all the mineral parts of the earth shine –
> or will a part of it remain behind, dark and unredeemed’?
> Rudolf Steiner said: ‘All substance will be redeemed’. I then asked if
> the moons of the planets will also be redeemed and he answered: ‘They
> are the refuse, yet they will also be redeemed – all substance will be
> I: ‘Is there any waste matter apart from the moons’? Rudolf Steiner:
> ‘Yes, that will remain, but later on that too will be redeemed’. And
> then, with great seriousness: ‘If everything were not to be redeemed,
> that would mean that Ahriman would have triumphed. All substance will
> gradually be redeemed after a very long time. If anything should be
> lost, then Ahriman would be the victor’!
> I said: ‘I am also looking for the relationship of the Demiourgos
> (world creator) to Ahriman’. He replied: ‘The Demiourgos is, so to
> say, the young Ahriman’.
> I: ‘His building material is the mineral’? Rudolf Steiner nodded and I
> continued: ‘And when the Demiourgos meets the Christ will this mineral
> then become the Holy Grail?
> Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, that is correct’.
> /"If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the
> human being who bears destiny unshaken."/ Rudolf Steiner