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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Earth as Sun 2

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  • dottie zold
    Okay, here is the final part of this Esoteric Conversation with Countess Johanna from the Interior of the Earth book:   What I had experienced had been so
    Message 1 of 188 , May 1, 2009
      Okay, here is the final part of this 'Esoteric Conversation with Countess Johanna from the Interior of the Earth book:

      What I had experienced had been so real – and yet I did not want to lapse into fantasies. I had written down my questions. Rudolf Steiner read them aloud: ‘Where can we find the land Shambhalla? I can imagine it somewhat as follows: in the beginning there was fire and light. These took their strength from one another – reciprocally in complete harmony. Then the light rejected the forces of fire; and the smoke, which was thereby hindered from rising into the light, fought back and accumulated above the fire. Thus, the primeval fire was gradually covered over by the ashes from the smoke. The ashes from the primeval fire form the mineral part of our earth’.


      Rudolf Steiner paused once more: ‘What you have written is correct’, then he continued to read: ‘We human beings, however, have to rediscover the connection to our origin, otherwise we shall become more and more excluded from life and will solidify with the minerals of the earth. If my assumption is correct we must start to penetrate the depths to the golden ground of the world. The way leads through the darkness, through the layers of smoke which envelope the living fire. The earth layers of the mineral world are permeated with the kamaloka of our soul life’.


      ‘Yes, that is correct,’ said Rudolf Steiner, who continued to read: ‘There we meet with everything which connects the mineral darkness to the hell of our souls. When we step out of the human world – which can occur even while the body continues to exist on earth – then we arrive in the land of the dead. When the dead person has accomplished his kamaloka, he rises to the starry worlds. I would think, though, that if it were possible to achieve such a state of sinlessness in kamaloka and, instead of rising upwards, one were to remain in the depths, would not the golden gates of the realm of fairyland open once more for the petitioning soul?


      Rudolf Steiner added: ‘Yes, that is possible’.

      I: ‘And is the interior of the earth made out of that gold which comes from the hollow cavity in the sun and which is destined to return there’?

      Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, the interior of the earth is of gold’.

      Then he put down the paper. Still I continued to question him for my assurance.


      ‘Her Doctor, when I am standing here on earth’, and I pointed to my green carpet, ‘then the golden land is beneath me, deep in the interior of the earth – and if I now attain to sinlessness and remain in the depths, the demons will not be able to harm me and I will be able to penetrate beyond them – and reach the golden land? ‘


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘If one passes through them accompanied by Christ, the demons will not be able to harm you – but otherwise they would indeed be able to destroy you’! He added emphatically: ‘They can, however, become our helpers. Yes, that is so – the path is a true one, but it is very difficult’! I knew now that my investigation had been on the right lines, but this path was a ‘very difficult’ one.


      It was Holderlin who had shown me his path. For years his astral forces had led me. I had climbed after him through the depths of fire and death until he found the way out to the light, the way out of imprisonment. He, who even left the earth in order to search for the Gods, ‘…for to be alone and without the Gods was death to him’, knows the Christ in the depths. So he does not rise up to the stars as other dead people do. No, he prefers to penetrate to the depths, to the Sun Being at the centre of the earth.


      The indication by Rudolf Steiner that what I had seen was the truth, but ‘very difficult’, left me wondering, and it seemed to me that he meant that there was a different way for the pupils of Michael. Now it has been granted, through the help of Michael, that the Christ who appears in the etheric realm of the earth will illumine our eyes to see the lost magical land. Then this land will rise up to us and man will bond himself to a new world – day in the light of the sun, when he sets free from their enchantment the spirits of the elements who have darkened his vision and rendered the earth solid and opaque.


      In Rudolf Steiner’s Mystery Drama The Guardian of the Threshold Ahriman says: ‘The gods, however, willed to rule on earth, and from their kingdom they did one day thrust my power into the depths of the abyss … and thus ‘this only from this place that I dare send out my powerful strength upon the earth. But in this way my power turns into fear’. And Capesius calls out: ‘Oh, in the depths dark fear threatening’! The spirit – pupil must, therefore, be aware of the fact that whoever penetrates into the depths has to pass through Ahriman’s kingdom and the beings of that kingdom touch him!


      As well as thinking and feeling the Being of Christ who united the earth through His death, one must also strive to become a brother of the divine Christ in order to attain in a full and living way the rays of victory which await us beyond the darkness. The spirit pupil thereby gains a weapon to protect him: the reality and power of perceptive consciousness! Perception of the laws of light is the shield which, in the hour of danger, is ready at hand. The spirit pupil who would dare to journey on the road into the depths must be in possession of that knowledge which ensures victory through Christ.


      I then asked Rudolf Steiner if we would be exposed to destruction by the demons: if they always have to destroy everything or whether we can be taken into the protection of Christ. He replied: ‘When we have entered into the circle of the sun the demons will no longer be able to harm us’.


      My next question was also related to the primeval depths. I asked him what substance kept the primeval fire alight, for where there is fire there must first be substance, and so the primeval fire is not the beginning which produces original life out of itself. Rudolf Steiner replied: ‘No, it is different – it is not so in this case. On earth there has to be material for fire to burn. But the primeval fire burns spontaneously; it is its own substance and being! Substance only came later and was added to the Fire’.

      I: ‘then is the primeval sun of Ptolemy, which he perceived in the centre of the earth as the creative ground of the world, the golden fairyland Shambhalla’?


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes – and midnight conceals it’.


      Then I presented Rudolf Steiner with the diagram (next page) and asked: ‘Can one draw it like this’? He answered: ‘Yes, one can do that’.


      ‘The festivals’, I said, ‘are always at the points where a new spiritual current enters in and relieves an old one.  The Father is succeeded by the Son and the latter is succeeded by the powers of the Holy Spirit’. Rudolf Steiner then asked me what I called the three uppermost points and I answered that they were assigned to Easter, Pentecost and St. John’s Day. Then I stopped because I did not know what to call the lower point on the right and the one at the bottom. He pointed to the lowest apex: ‘What do you call this’?


      ‘The  journey of Faust to the Mothers’, I answered.

      ‘Yes’, said Rudolf Steiner, ‘on November 9’, and added: ‘And here, on 24 September, the Festival of Persephone was celebrated by the Greeks’.


      I then put several questions connected to what had been spoken about during the last few days, and which could not be separated from it in my view. I only wish to recount a few of these questions here, ones which might provide confirmation to one or other of us who are investigating these things further. Rudolf Steiner asked me if I had any further questions and I showed him my calculations in astronomy and voiced my opinion as follows: ‘A completely new astronomy is developing which has nothing at all to do with what one calls astronomy today. I do not dare to work further on that until I know if what I am writing is true’.


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘If you experience these things you have, then they will be true. You only have to be quite sure in yourself, quite selflessly true’. And, only audible to spirit ears, he added: ‘Because these truths can only be experienced in selflessness’.


      I: ‘You told me Christ is the Divine Ego. So, is the earth the physical body of Christ, the etheric world His etheric body and the astral world His astral body?


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, of course’.


      I: ‘I see many things but, without having asked you, I surely cannot say, for instance, that in the slag of cooled moon craters the dead fire-forces of God’s adversaries are crouching and wrangling with Him’?


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘Why do you not like to say so, if you experience it in that way’?




      When Rudolf Steiner was with us the previous time he had said something which had occupied me a great deal, since here on earth one can close an inner door, but in the spiritual world it is different: ‘On Sirius one hears everything that people think’. I studied all I could to gain a grasp of the identity of Sirius. Mythology only revealed that it was the star of Zarathustra, and stands as Isis in the constellation of the Dog. Neither did the Astronomical Course (The Relationship of the Diverse Branches of Natural Science to Astronomy) give me any information about the secrets of Sirius. Then I thought that I should tackle this question from a different angle and formulated it according to my own ideas as follows: Where is the centre in which all human suffering and all human joy in heaven and in the cosmos can be perceived? Then the answer sounded in my soul: it is His heart – the heart of Jesus – Zarathustra in the earth’s depths of midnight. I asked Rudolf Steiner about this and he said: ‘Sirius is the heart of Jesus-Zarathustra and is in the depths of the earth’. ‘The heart is in the deep’, said Jacob Boehme: in the depths of his heart man also attains to the other Heart, which would bear with him all his suffering and all his joy. Then Rudolf Steiner drew a simple sketch and spoke slowly for me to take it down in writing: ‘Sirius is the world-thought which Christ produces out of His Heart – therefore it is to be found within the earth’. He drew a curve to represent the earth and wrote on it, ‘Metabolism and fulfillment’, as though the thoughts issuing from the Heart of Christ, that is from the sun, are sent through Sirius to the centre of the earth, where they obtain their fulfillment by means of metabolism.




      Rudolf Steiner also spoke to me at that time about ‘Creation out of nothing’. I noted down the following: the interior of the earth consists of gold, in which the highest hierarchy weaves. This interior became dark: and Christ departed from the sun and, as the Saviour, entered the golden centre of the earth. So is this new Creation a gift to the earth out of nothingness, out of the hollow spaces within the sun? For the solid earth – this body of the Gods – died at the moment of Golgotha. Has a new Holy Host now been sent down from the hollow space of the sun?


      Rudolf Steiner answered: ‘Not out of the hollowness, for that is ‘nothingness’ isn’t it, the opposite of ‘somthingness’. The new Holy Host issues forth from the reality behind the emptiness’.


      I: ‘And will the mineral slag of the divine corpse become the vessel which begins to shine? Will all the mineral parts of the earth shine – or will a part of it remain behind, dark and unredeemed’?


      Rudolf Steiner said: ‘All substance will be redeemed’. I then asked if the moons of the planets will also be redeemed and he answered: ‘They are the refuse, yet they will also be redeemed – all substance will be redeemed’.


      I: ‘Is there any waste matter apart from the moons’? Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, that will remain, but later on that too will be redeemed’. And then, with great seriousness: ‘If everything were not to be redeemed, that would mean that Ahriman would have triumphed. All substance will gradually be redeemed after a very long time. If anything should be lost, then Ahriman would be the victor’!


      I said: ‘I am also looking for the relationship of the Demiourgos (world creator) to Ahriman’. He replied: ‘The Demiourgos is, so to say, the young Ahriman’.


      I: ‘His building material is the mineral’? Rudolf Steiner nodded and I continued: ‘And when the Demiourgos meets the Christ will this mineral then become the Holy Grail?


      Rudolf Steiner: ‘Yes, that is correct’.

      "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

    • write3chairs
      ... Dottie, is this the same photo you posted here recently, in one of your messages? I couldn t find it in the photo section. Please let us know where we can
      Message 188 of 188 , May 8, 2009
        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold wrote:

        > Ottmar, we  had the good fortune to have Ehrenfried's
        > original painting of the heart that is mentioned in the
        > lecture: he stated that if one did not understand anything
        > he said if they would but just ponder the painting they
        > would understand. I walked up to the painting and just
        > began sobbing for some strange reason. I have a photo
        > of the painting and will put it in my photo part on AT.
        > I want to have it professionaly photographed and put to
        > the proper size for all future conferences as it is quite incredible.
        > All good things,
        > Dottie

        Dottie, is this the same photo you posted here recently,
        in one of your messages? I couldn't find it in the photo
        section. Please let us know where we can find it!


        > "If there is something more powerful than destiny,
        > this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken."
        > Rudolf Steiner
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