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Steiner's definitions [was: Peter's definitions]

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  • Detlef Hardorp
    In message 4018 PS finally answers my questions about the coloured races. He posted on Sat Apr 3, 2004 7:31 pm: DH: Would it be correct to conclude that any
    Message 1 of 49 , Apr 3, 2004
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      In message 4018 PS finally answers my questions about the "coloured" races.   He posted on Sat Apr 3, 2004 7:31 pm:

      DH: "Would it be correct to conclude that any one of the "coloured races" (i.e. yellow or red or brown or black) correspond to any one of the five historical Root-Races themselves?"

      PS: No, of course not. According to the first theosophical usage of "Root-Race", the first two root races did not have physical bodies.

      I add: We are in complete agreement here, Mr. Staudenmaier!

      DH: "Or are the root races Blavatsky speaks of not in 1-1 correspondence with the "coloured races"?"

      PS: No, of course not. (...) Why are you having trouble grasping that simple fact?

      I add: Again: we are in complete agreement here, Mr. Staudenmaier!  I am not having trouble grasping this simple fact.  I just wanted to make sure that _you_ weren't having trouble grasping this simple fact.  Why might I get the impression that you might be having trouble grasping this simple fact?  That, my dear Watson, is elementary.

      You see, Mr. Staudenmaier has been vehemently claiming that when Steiner uses the term "Hauptrasse" in the "Mission..." book, he of course meant "root races" in the tradition of Blavatsky.  It is "ludicrous" to claim that translators who have translated "Hauptrasse" as "root race" have made a mistake.

      Now look at the facts, dear Watson. 

      1.  In the "Mission .." book, Steiner is talking about the five "main races" of humanity.  He names and describes them there as the yellow , red, brown, black and white race.

      2.  We have just ascertained that of course there is no 1-1 correspondence between the "coloured" races and the "root races" of the Theosophical tradition. For one, the first two "root races" didn't even have physical bodies.  Furthermore, Blavatsky describes the "coloured" races either as "remnants" of the fourth of the five historical Root-Races or as "descendants" of both Atlanteans (the fourth root race) and Lemurians (the third root race). 

      3.  It thus follows clearly to anyone with a basic understanding of the Theosophical concept of root races that when Steiner is talking about the five "coloured" races as "main races", he cannot mean the five historical "root races" that Blavatsky spoke of.

      4.  The fact that Steiner uses the term "root races" and "main races" synonymously in a collection of essays published under the title "Cosmic Memory" goes to show that the word "main race" can mean different things in different contexts. 

      5.  Those who pathologically cannot grasp that identical words can mean quite different things in different contexts are of course unable to understand this.  It is futile to argue with them.  Steiner's "terminology was highly inconsistent" is all they will respond.  Quite.  For a good reason: he meant two different things.

      It is as simple as that, my dear Watson.

      Detlef Hardorp

    • Gisele
      ~~~~Once again, Bradford, hats off to a great posting! Gix holderlin66 wrote: Sovereignty in Iraq is a catch phrase, a lot of hot air
      Message 49 of 49 , Jun 10, 2004
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        ~~~~Once again, Bradford, hats off to a great posting!

        holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:
        Sovereignty in Iraq is a catch phrase, a lot of hot air meaning one
        thing and one thing only, Karl Rove and Bush machine stay in power.
        American Press is so Orwellian that they cannot just tell you the way
        it really is. The way it really is, for Spiritual Science, is that
        control over the Iraqi corporate state by the U.S. is not something
        that will be withdrawn anytime soon.

        Iraq and new U.N. guidelines for Iraq does not allow Iraq to
        determine it's own destiny. The shift of some 40 odd, billion dollar
        military bases in Iraq, making them, staffing them, getting them up
        and running, certainly prevents anyone from getting the water and
        electricity running in Iraq. That has always been a secondary focus,
        the primary focus was secure the oil contracts and economy of the
        future Iraq and while the hot lava sucker money is flowing like a
        bleeder from America, get the bases on-line. Sucker, Sucker, Sucker
        and Sucker is what we should be saying to ourselves in the West over
        and over again.

        The Interim council are a collection of hand picks from the Bremmer
        dictatorship and finally, Negroponte is going to open the biggest CIA
        spy house in the middle East, called an "American Embassy". From here
        massive worm holes and underground fissures in the entire middle east
        system will be linked with Israel's band of idiots. This is why we
        have to understand the Arabism that has arrived again through the
        U.S. as a new form of Intellectual Soul epidemic. It is a virus that
        brings dishonesty, changes brotherhood to avarice and corporate
        whoredom. It makes Babylon ripe for becoming the Great Whore. No,
        stupid, I mean take it seriously. The Great Whore is an infected
        disease that corrupts Corporations world wide and every little slimy
        intellect trained to suck ass on Wall street. It is an Ahrimanic
        infection, do you get it yet?

        Go ahead, tell me about Soverignty, get all warm and fuzzy about
        Sovereignty for me. Sovereignty is where the I Am, free of egregorial
        and elemental beasties, like briars, that lodged themselves in
        Luciferic and Ahrimanic portions of the untransformed soul, can with
        self conscious, self correction and esoteric discipline, look at
        itself with objectivity.

        Sovereignty is having an active conscience that has the mobility to
        not be part of the Orders from above and military boyscout training
        wheels that allows anti-human actions to betray exactly what Freedom
        in the World and freedom for America used to stand for. Sovereignty
        is not walking around taking orders from Judaism, Islam or phony
        fundamental christian morons who either want Armageddon or revenge.

        Sovereignty is putting a line item, line by line cost effective
        breakdown of exactly what this is costing the U.S. and the world in
        billions, aid to whole starving countries, to what schools, teachers
        salaries, new energy research that shakes us free of oil; or, phony
        homeland security itself could do with the wasted billions that serve
        the darker instincts of failed patriotism and obvious demonic
        political machinations. We can start there with Sovereignty. Now all
        of this practical data is also occult schooling. Schooling that aims
        at the Philosophy of Freedom training of knowing your motives and
        using the great Greek method of esoteric discipline, known as Know
        Thyself. Steiner gave that as a gift. What I bring here practical
        common sense indications of understanding basic Ahrimanic

        Two of my favorite books: 1- Marie Corelli, "Dream of the World's
        Tragedy" and 2- "The Mysterious Stranger" by Mark Twain. In "The
        Mysterious Stranger" you get, once again, a chance for student of
        Spiritual Science to study exact occult insights into Ahrimanic
        Symptomology and the ideas here added in a study of the epidemic of
        the Great Satan.

        holderlin previously wrote:

        "America as it sweeps over the globe is updating everyone and some
        religious groups reluctantly.The Information Age and the
        new "Gattica" and "Blade Runner" and the SUV Age is considered by
        some to be an unholy nightmare. Enough so that Iran and Islam can
        call America the Great Satan. This compares to a new form of
        culturally epidemic disease of politics divorced from brotherhood
        sweeping toward the Islamics. Our word is not good enough, neither
        are contracts and lies, which is bearing down in the old market
        places that you can still visit in Damascus. In Islam there are
        etheric repititions of prayer nearly five times a day and a general
        Luciferic astral refusal to come to terms with the Ahrimanic
        onslaught coming out of the west."

        Contracts, lies and Corporate Porno:


        Ralph Nader: First of all, we have been supporting despots,
        dictators, and oligarchs in all those states for a variety of
        purposes. We supported Saddam Hussein. He was our anti-Communist
        dictator until 1990. It's also cultural; they see corporate culture
        as abandoning the restraints on personal behavior dictated by their
        religion and culture. Our corporate pornography and anything-goes
        values are profoundly offensive to them.

        The other thing is that we are supporting the Israeli military regime
        with billions of dollars and ignoring both the Israeli peace
        movement, which is very substantial, and the Palestinian peace
        movement. They see a nuclear-armed Israel that could wipe out the
        Middle East in a weekend if it wanted to.

        RN: The subservience of our congressional and White House puppets to
        Israeli military policy has been consistent. Until '91, any dictator
        who was anti-Communist was our ally.

        PB: You used the term "congressional puppets." Did John Kerry show
        himself to be a congressional puppet when he voted to give the
        president a blank check to go to war?

        RN: They're almost all puppets. There are two sets: Congressional
        puppets and White House puppets. When the chief puppeteer comes to
        Washington, the puppets prance.

        PB: Why do both sets of puppets, support the Sharon/Likud policies in
        the Middle East rather than the peace movement candidates and leaders
        in Israel?

        RN: That is a good question because the peace movement is broad
        indeed. They just put 120,000 people in a square in Tel Aviv. They
        are composed of former government ministers, existing and former
        members of the Knesset, former generals, former combat veterans,
        former heads of internal security, people from all backgrounds. It is
        not any fringe movement.

        The answer to your question is that instead of focusing on how to
        bring a peaceful settlement, both parties concede their independent
        judgment to the pro-Israeli lobbies in this country because they
        perceive them as determining the margin in some state elections and
        as sources of funding. They don't appear to agree with Tom Friedman,
        who wrote that memorable phrase, "Ariel Sharon has Arafat under house
        arrest in Ramallah and Bush under house arrest in the Oval Office."

        RN: Under my proposal there would be an international peacekeeping
        force, and the withdrawal would be a smart withdrawal during which
        there are internationally supervised elections. We would have both
        military and corporate withdrawal because the Iraqi people see the
        corporations are beginning to take over their economy, including
        their oil resources. And we would continue humanitarian assistance
        until the Iraqi people get on their feet. We would bring to the
        forefront during the election autonomies for Kurds, Sunnis, and
        Shi'ites. So this would not be like a withdrawal in Vietnam where we
        just barely got out with the helicopters.

        TAC: You often mention corporations. What is the theory behind this
        or what are the alternatives to corporate economic power? I presume
        you are not talking about state ownership or socialism, or perhaps
        you are …

        RN: Well, that is what representative government is for, to
        counteract the excesses of the monied interests, as Thomas Jefferson
        said. Because big business realizes that the main countervailing
        force against their excesses and abuses is government, their goal has
        been to take over the government, and they do this with money and
        politics. They do it by putting their top officials at the Pentagon,
        Treasury, and Federal Reserve, and they do it by providing job
        opportunities to retiring members of Congress. They have law firms
        that draft legislation and think-tanks that provide ready-made
        speeches. They also do it by threatening to leave the country. The
        quickest way to bring a member of Congress to his or her knees is by
        shifting industries abroad.

        Concentrated corporate power violates many principles of capitalism.
        For example, under capitalism, owners control their property. Under
        multinational corporations, the shareholders don't control their
        corporation. Under capitalism, if you can't make the market respond,
        you sink. Under big business, you don't go bankrupt; you go to
        Washington for a bailout. Under capitalism, there is supposed to be
        freedom of contract. When was the last time you negotiated a contract
        with banks or auto dealers? They are all fine-print contracts. The
        law of contracts has been wiped out for 99 percent of contracts that
        ordinary consumers sign on to. Capitalism is supposed to be based on
        law and order. Corporations get away with corporate crime, fraud, and
        abuse. And finally, capitalism is premised on a level playing field;
        the most meritorious is supposed to win. Tell that to a small
        inventor or a small business up against McDonald's or a software
        programmer up against Microsoft.

        Giant multinational corporations have no allegiance to any country or
        community other than to control them or abandon them. So what we have
        now is the merger of big business and big government to further
        subsidize costs or eliminate risks or guarantee profits by our

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