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R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: RS about racial evolution

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  • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
    ... or races at all. Retardation comes from Retarding beings. PS wrote: , making a perfect own-goal , just to say it in a soccer-like way. That is beside the
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      or races at all. Retardation comes from Retarding beings."
       
       
        PS wrote: , making a perfect own-goal , just to say it in a soccer-like way.
       
      That is beside the point.
       
      No this IS the point.
       
       The individual I Am is not and cannot be the object of racist thinking.
       Ditto... Well, let's try to develop a little this point.. The Individual I AM , in Spiritual Science, is the core of the Human Being . Only the I AM can say "I" to Himself.  Such an I AM develops himself working over the astral body, ether body, physical body, transforming them via different span of times,
        So inside a weltanschauung that depicts the I AM as the center of this work NO RACISM IS POSSIBLE.
       
       Only particular incarnations and specific embodiments
      And what "particular incarnations" are , but the subsequent stages of an "I AM "  evolution life after life ?. If someone agrees, as PS does, that the I AM is the core of the human beings there is no actual further chance anymore to call "racist" Spiritual Science.
       BTW : A racist is a guy who is unable to grasp the  I AM that, at a particular moment in time, can manifest Himself via the sheats of an American or an European and so on .
      The racist is someone compelled to judge "the book by the cover". since he is able to see only what he thinks the "cover" is!
      Ergo: Since Anthroposophy is based on the fact of "reading the book" and not "to judge the cover" the racist, able to see only "the cover" is out of her paths.
       
      What a beautiful own-goal people!
       
      A.
      (Sorry Brad for my jump'in !)
       
       
       
       can be the object of racist thinking. That is how Steiner used the term 'race', and that is how critics of racist thought use the term. The conflation of language, culture, ethnicity, and race is one of the fundamental roots of modern racist thought.
       

      "Upwards in the thinking world, where idealism lives, brotherhood
      prevails."
       
       
      That may well be, but it has nothing to do with whether some of Steiner's doctrines were racist. Lots of racists were idealists who believed in brotherhood.
       
       
      "it means that one studies the general and specific, but certainly, far above your examination of second hand reality, is the fact of how the distrubution of various qualites were meted out by the Divine."
       
       
      The question is simply whether these qualities are distributed along racial lines. Racists believe that they are. Non-racists believe that they are not.
       
       
      Peter
       
       
       
       

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    • Peter Staudenmaier
      Hi Andrea, you wrote: The Individual I AM , in Spiritual Science, is the core of the Human Being . Only the I AM can say I to Himself. Such an I AM
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
        Hi Andrea, you wrote:
         
         
        "The Individual I AM , in Spiritual Science, is the core of the Human Being . Only the I AM can say "I" to Himself.  Such an I AM develops himself working over the astral body, ether body, physical body, transforming them via different span of times, So inside a weltanschauung that depicts the I AM as the center of this work NO RACISM IS POSSIBLE."
         
         
        Well, that would certainly explain why you're having trouble recognizing the racist aspects of Steiner's teachings: you've decided a priori that these aspects cannot possibly exist. This is a foolish way of approaching the matter, in my view.
         
         
        "And what "particular incarnations" are , but the subsequent stages of an "I AM "  evolution life after life ?. If someone agrees, as PS does, that the I AM is the core of the human beings there is no actual further chance anymore to call "racist" Spiritual Science."
         
         
        Why not? A theory of soul development that is linked directly to racial development and slots specific racial groups into categories of higher and lower, advanced and backward, and states that spiritual characteristics determine which race a given soul will incarnate into, qualifies as racist. Racism is a set of ideas about race. It is not a set of ideas about the core of the human being.
         
         
        "A racist is a guy who is unable to grasp the  I AM that, at a particular moment in time, can manifest Himself via the sheats of an American or an European and so on .The racist is someone compelled to judge "the book by the cover". since he is able to see only what he thinks the "cover" is!"
         
         
        That is true of some racists. But a racist is also a guy who says that certain races are higher than others, are more advanced than others, are more spiritually developed than others. If you disagree, just explain how any non-racist could endorse the notion of higher and lower races.
         
         
        Peter
         
         
         
         

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      • Harvey Bornfield
        ... Dear Peter: We must speak a little further of the I-AM , and warn of wolves that prowl in thought. Racism does not admit of aspects, but is rather a
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
          At 04:06 AM 4/2/2004, you wrote:
          Hi Andrea, you wrote:
           
           
          "The Individual I AM , in Spiritual Science, is the core of the Human Being . Only the I AM can say "I" to Himself.  Such an I AM develops himself working over the astral body, ether body, physical body, transforming them via different span of times, So inside a weltanschauung that depicts the I AM as the center of this work NO RACISM IS POSSIBLE."
           
           
          Well, that would certainly explain why you're having trouble recognizing the racist aspects of Steiner's teachings: you've decided a priori that these aspects cannot possibly exist. This is a foolish way of approaching the matter, in my view.


          Dear Peter:

          We must speak a little further of the "I-AM", and warn of wolves that prowl in thought.

          Racism does not admit of aspects, but is rather a statement of an underlying intent to exalt some and demean others. Failing conspicuous telltale evidence of such intent within the life of an individual, there is no hope that any campaign or crusade, however ferocious or subtle, however penetrating or enchanging, which would be capable of getting to first base in attempt either indict or exonerate an individual of such a label. For it is not written, "By their deductions", but rather "By their fruits ye will know them" This is the standard, whether it pleases or insults you, that in the estimation of the Christ, who has a slight possibility of knowing more than a Ph.D., it is possible to define and defend the Human path through the bard's voice, as in "my brain I'll prove the female to my soul" (Richard II). The rest's but footnote, embroidery, encore, maraschino cherry, yet I'll hammer it out, (what are friends for?)

          Racism, I think it could fairly be said is one of the tragic echoes of a behavior which promulgates an intent to harbor twin prejudices of privilege and malice, and to project these upon group membership. The imagined entitlement or the exclusion of entitlement, based upon the tenacious, atavistic, Neanderthal-like clinging to criteria of human identity focused through externally-definable criteria,  characterizes what one can come to regard as "template thinking", a term I substitute as more creative and expansive a depiction of what others might refer to as dogmatic or parochial behavior, also known in rude circles in America as "Redneck".

          Now the real question Peter S "must" answer, like everyone who will soon be left, as my friend Cornman once said, "standing on what he's standing for", : ) , is one he will ask in front of the mirror, as he checks, like a 500 year-old Dracula before him to see if there is anything which reflects at all in it, is this: ..............whether he wishes to regard himself for the rest of this reincarnation as a person who insists that identity is only to be focused, pursued and defined by the widely accepted though utterly futile resort to non-phenemonologically, (i.e., non-self-evidencing) verifiable forms of reflective experience, or.............. whether he will invite himself to indulge the notion of seeking to dissolve henceforth from the house arrest of racial, tribal, national and ethnic identity, and so come to see such mercurial parole from these long-standing curses as something unspeculative, worth cherishing, embracing and championing. This is the stuff of which decisions "to die for" are made on. Not to answer too soon, with prepared press-releases and syndicated reruns, for you are in front of your own mirror.

          The most fundamental contribution of Rudolf Steiner was to impart an understanding of the Anthroposophical world view as progressive in attitude, rather than paralyzed by obsession with defining and living within the psychologically myopic confines of a freeze-framed reality, from static, non-mysterious, brass-like, dictionary forms of identity.

          Because of the evolve-ability, the re-thinkability of ideas and purposes, magnetisms and currents of spiritual influence which have in ages past, played significant roles in conferring, belief infrastructures and purpose to people when forces of individuation had not progressed as far as they have now, now may be understood to be on the wane and are losing hold as determinants of aspiration.

          Throughout the near and in the upstream of the more legendary domains of the sweep of history, when the racial garb, the clothing of the biological basis for life held far greater sway than it does now, initiates and sages have nonetheless regarded race and tribe and nation as gloves, beneath which is the Invisible Hand of God. And so these are ever mere epicenter of Divine purposes and the Hierarchies which sire those lofty intents, through which they revealed and matured genius, talents and capacities within groups through instinctive, less conscious, less independent, focusing in more stereotypic rather than in what can be regarded as "lone and maverick'd" ways, those self-initiated impulses we see and affirm as appropriate for the present.

          The danger, the tar-pit into which you persist it is necessary to continue sinking is reversible by developing an interest in the balance between beauty and criticism, that through such pursuit of equilibrium you can evolve the gift of individuality, which is but promise which only choice can fructify. So how to become a species unto oneself; this honor comes about through the forging of courage to break through the cocoon of the collective and become an author of influences out of the "I-AM." This is the esoteric meaning of pulling Excalibur from the sheath of one's own Stone. Just as religion is to group identity as the emerging ability, the "artistic license" to reveal and perfect the work of art is to the individual, so also, whoever wishes to define his own conscious access by self-emancipating from "Template Thinking", will regard intuition as an antidote to spin and all prejudice, and see in its inspired cultivation the single sine-qua-non fundamental to the core and living essence of Anthroposophia.

          To remain mired, seeking strength of your own self-definition by resort to agitating sympathy and antipathy in others, squanders valuable energy which could, pending spiritual maturity, be spent in blessing and empowering others to focus their attention towards the liberation of men from the blind slavery of nationalism, racism, and every "ISM". For slowly it becomes clear that the "Anything-ISM" stereotype is a pathology which fractures the One Human Race into kingdoms of turf-bound claustrophobia, and makes competition a euphoria, and is the primary campaign contributor to what populates this great stage with fools. "Then we must labor to destroy the animal condition, til the true meaning of humanity come to light"

          Good luck on opening the cover and reading your own book. May your for-and-against, black-and-white hot-and-cold running Zebra stripes all turn to Joseph's coat of many rainbows............

          Warm Regards,
          Abraham Van Helsing



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        • dottie zold
          ... that prowl ... Dearest Harvey, you are the most beautiful heart mind I have ever met or even hope to meet in this lifetime. Truly your words are a
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
            Harvey:
            > We must speak a little further of the "I-AM", and warn of wolves
            that prowl
            > in thought.

            Dearest Harvey, you are the most beautiful heart mind I have ever met
            or even hope to meet in this lifetime. Truly your words are a
            consistant study of pulling ones self up from the bootstraps of
            humanity to its counterpart in the spiritual worlds.

            Thank you always for your inspiring words today tomorrow and
            yesterday.

            Sincerely,
            Dottie

            And Harvey said,

            > Racism does not admit of aspects, but is rather a statement of an
            > underlying intent to exalt some and demean others. Failing
            conspicuous
            > telltale evidence of such intent within the life of an individual,
            there is
            > no hope that any campaign or crusade, however ferocious or subtle,
            however
            > penetrating or enchanging, which would be capable of getting to
            first base
            > in attempt either indict or exonerate an individual of such a
            label. For it
            > is not written, "By their deductions", but rather "By their fruits
            ye will
            > know them" This is the standard, whether it pleases or insults you,
            that in
            > the estimation of the Christ, who has a slight possibility of
            knowing more
            > than a Ph.D., it is possible to define and defend the Human path
            through
            > the bard's voice, as in "my brain I'll prove the female to my soul"
            > (Richard II). The rest's but footnote, embroidery, encore,
            maraschino
            > cherry, yet I'll hammer it out, (what are friends for?)
          • Peter Staudenmaier
            Hi Harvey, you wrote: Racism does not admit of aspects, but is rather a statement of an underlying intent to exalt some and demean others. I disagree. Racism
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
              Hi Harvey, you wrote:
               
               
              "Racism does not admit of aspects, but is rather a statement of an underlying intent to exalt some and demean others."
               
               
              I disagree. Racism is not a matter of intentions, it is a matter of beliefs.
               
               
              "Racism, I think it could fairly be said is one of the tragic echoes of a behavior which promulgates an intent to harbor twin prejudices of privilege and malice, and to project these upon group membership."
               
               
              That is much too narrow a standard. By this logic, very many historical racists would not qualify as racist.
               
               
              Peter





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            • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
              ... Andrea
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 3, 2004
                ----- Original Message -----


                >
                > "Peter you are an idiot! Forward, retardation, going backward, Oh
                > what an unlearned child you are. Because Evolving is seemingly
                > forward it makes a nice term doesn't it? The condition of
                > retardation doesn't merely come from races... or races at all.
                > Retardation comes from Retarding beings. You are such a retard. "
                >
                >
                > Bradford this is just a shameful rant. What is wrong with you people?
                > Why doesn't somebody tell him to act like a human being? This is
                > garbage, this isn't "spirituality."
                > Diana
                >

                > No it's only truth!

                Andrea

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