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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on racial evolution/Ahasver

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  • Peter Staudenmaier
    Hi Mike, you wrote: Please don t draw me into your twisted way of thinking. I don t agree with that. Okay, so you don t agree that Steiner s work contains
    Message 1 of 125 , Apr 1, 2004
      Hi Mike, you wrote:
      "Please don't draw me into your twisted way of thinking. I don't agree with that."
      Okay, so you don't agree that Steiner's work contains both racist and non-racist strands. I take it that this means you deny that there are any racist elements whatsoever in Steiner's work?
      "I think that you see it that way because you like to deconstruct ideas that seem foolish to you because you really don't understand their metaphorical significance."
      It sounds to me like you have confused several distinct issues. First, I believe in analyzing important ideas regardless of whether they seem foolish to me. Second, the metaphorical significance of these ideas is precisely what is under dispute; it's silly to pretend that I don't understand this siginificance. It would make a lot more sense for you to simply outline your own understanding of this significance, preferably with reference to Steiner's published works on the matter. What do you say?
      "I'm sure that the deconstruction of ideas has it's place. But the kind of deconstructionism that you do with RS and anthroposophy is like me coming over to your house and taking your bike apart to find a mechanical flaw, and telling you that the chain is rusted to the core and then leaving it there in your driveway in pieces for you."
      Why would that be a problem? Unless I'm incapable of putting the bike back together, I don't see what would be so unhelpful about this. If you are trying to say that you don't know how to put Steiner's doctrines back together after someone else has criticized them and found a flaw within them, then I suppose your analogy makes sense, but I don't know what relevance it might have for me. Surely this is not a good reason to refrain from critique.
      "I am a bit irritated but I don't think I am "mixed up." I think that I (and many others) have already explained "why"above. But in brief I'll say it again: Because it has metaphorical significance to those of us who aren't just looking for examples of racist thought to explain in words."
      Why would that make any difference? It is obvious that Steiner's racial doctrines have lots of metaphorical significance for any number of anthroposophists. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of whether some of these doctrines are racist.
      "RS also frequently mentions the inadequacy of language in trying to describe the world of spirit."
      Indeed. But language isn't the problem here. Steiner taught that the world of spirit is reflected in the physical world, and he specifically included race. That's where it gets interesting, from the point of view of determining whether some of his doctrines are racist. Why don't we focus on those doctrines directly?

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    • dottie zold
      ... Dottie ... questions ... Raymon, can you answer the question above sometime soon? Do you think Dr. Steiner was a racist? Have you read Staudenmaiers Eco
      Message 125 of 125 , Apr 27, 2004
        > Raymond:
        > But what has this sort of thing to do with the debate at
        > > hand?

        > Wanted to know where you were coming from with your comments that
        > seem to point that you think Staudenmaier correct that Dr. Steiner
        > was a racist? Do you consider that to be true? I have other
        > but I guess I would like to have these questions answered regarding
        > the doctrine before I go on further.

        Raymon, can you answer the question above sometime soon? Do you think
        Dr. Steiner was a racist? Have you read Staudenmaiers Eco paper? And
        if so have you checked the references to realities of the Doctors
        work? And if so have you not noted the two or three word quote with a
        Staudenmaier interpretation of said quote as if the Doctor stated
        such himself?

        And if you do consider Dr. Steiner a racist what the hell are you
        doing following such a man? Do you agree with any aspects that you
        consider racist in Dr. Steiners work? Do you find yourself outside
        the mainstream of Anthroposophy according to how others view his
        work? What is the most important aspect of the Doctors work you think
        serves the future of humanity? How do you feel about Sophia making
        her reappearance center stage?

        Come on Sophia,
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