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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] RS about racial evolution

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  • Tarjei Straume
    ... There was nothing wrong with the passages you quoted; of course they expressed what Steiner had in mind. His books and lectures are self-explanatory. But
    Message 1 of 57 , Apr 1, 2004
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      At 08:21 01.04.2004, PS wrote:

      >It seems to me that Tarjei and other list members are not quite decided
      >about which tack they prefer to pursue in this exchange. We could either
      >discuss what we think Steiner said about racial evolution and its
      >ostensibly progressive nature, or we could discuss whether his stated
      >views on this and related topics qualify as racist. Or we could do both.
      >But it would move things along if Tarjei (or anyone else) could clarify
      >which of these is at stake -- do you think that the Steiner passages I
      >quoted do not express his actual views, or do you simply disagree that
      >some of these views can be characterized as racist?

      There was nothing wrong with the passages you quoted; of course they
      expressed what Steiner had in mind. His books and lectures are
      self-explanatory. But you've proven yourself incapable of grasping anything
      Steiner said or wrote.

      > What Tarjei quotes here is quite compatible with what I quoted earlier;
      > in Steiner's teachings, racial theory and evolutionary theory went hand
      > in hand.

      Of course everything Steiner said and wrote is mutually compatible, but
      you're determined never to understand why.

      >There is no such thing as going forward or backward in evolution.

      Perhaps you should write your own evolutionary theory and see how well it
      catches on.

      >Since Tarjei and I seem to agree on the broad outlines of what Steiner
      >actually taught about racial evolution,

      No Peter, we do not agree on what Steiner taught about evolution, racial or
      otherwise, for the simple reason that you deny the influence of the
      spiritual world in this context. You also deny that evolution involves any
      progress whatsoever, backwards or forwards.

      >I think it would make considerably more sense for Tarjei to explain, at
      >long last, why he thinks this ideology is not racist.

      I don't think the gods are racists. But if you insist upon understanding
      evolution and race in the theosophical-anthroposophical context better than
      me, you should answer Detlef's question about Blavatsky and the yellow,
      red, brown and black races.


      Tarjei
      http://uncletaz.com/
    • at@ael...
      Another difficult question that Peter Staudenmaier continues to run away from: cultural evolution. He has indignantly declared that natural selection does not
      Message 57 of 57 , Apr 22, 2004
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        Another difficult question that Peter Staudenmaier continues to run away from: cultural evolution. He has indignantly declared that natural selection does not apply to cultures. I don't know why he thought anyone would claim such a thing. But he cannot explain if he feels cultures evolve at all, or how. Condescend to me, Peter. Try answering this.

        Daniel Hindes
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: at@ael...
        Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:21 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] RS about racial evolution

        Hi Daniel, you wrote:
        "So the human body evolved, and ideas evolve, but cultures (composed of bodies and ideas) don't evolve?"
         
        Peter Staudenmaier:
        Not by natural selection. If you believe that cultures evolve by natural selection, then I think you have an inadequate grasp of the concept. Cultures are neither genetic nor hereditary.
         
        Daniel:
        Peter, one of the first things you learn in Biology is that evolution does not equal natural selection. There are many theories of evolution. Relativly few of them involve natural selection as the method of evolution (though the generally accepted ones do). Your education might benefit from a few basic biology courses.
         
        Repeat: "Evolution does not equal natural selection."
         
        Good, now I hope that you won't misapply the methods of biology to culture (you of all people should know what a mess that creates).
         
        Back to my origional question:
        "So the human body evolved, and ideas evolve, but cultures (composed of bodies and ideas) don't evolve?"
        Note: I did not ask if cultures evolved through natural selection. I asked if they evolved at all by any mechanism.
         
        Daniel Hindes
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