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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: studying Steiner for years

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  • Peter Staudenmaier
    Hi Dottie, I ve been ignoring your questions about Steiner s honesty because I ve already addressed them very thoroughly, both on this list (in the exchange
    Message 1 of 32 , Apr 1, 2004
      Hi Dottie,
      I've been ignoring your questions about Steiner's honesty because I've already addressed them very thoroughly, both on this list (in the exchange with you, Tarjei, and others about atheism) and on the waldorf critics list (particularly in my extensive replies to you). As I explained in those contexts, I do not think that Steiner was for the most part deliberately dishonest in his public writings and lectures. I think that Peter Farrell makes a very good point about Steiner's obligations to his audience, and to extent that I was able to follow the physics examples (which is a very limited extent) I think Peter F's concerns are valid. But I'm not persuaded that these examples indicate dishonesty in the standard sense. I think that Steiner believed what he was saying, and that he therefore was not dishonest.
      I once again encourage you to explain your position on the relative comprehension of Steiner's doctrines by anthroposophists and by critics of anthroposophy.

      If that is indeed what you believe, could you explain why you believe
      it? If that's not what you believe, could you explain what you mean?

      Again Peter, I am waiting and have been waiting for at least two
      weeks if not more for your response to Mr. Farells points on honesty?


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    • Deborah
      Mike, Thanks. Yeah, that is the kind of thing I m talking about. To look at evil requires more rigorous and disciplined thinking, healthy imagination, rich
      Message 32 of 32 , May 9 7:05 PM

        Thanks. Yeah, that is the kind of thing I'm talking about. To look at
        evil requires more rigorous and disciplined thinking, healthy
        imagination, rich intuition. The temptation to just declare things as
        evil and then feel like something great has been accomplished...what
        a heffalump trap! And yes, that is a big part of my frustration with
        PLANS: their tendency to see anthroposophy and waldorf as this big
        conspiracy. They don't have to actually prove anything...it is enough
        to just declare a conspiracy...and there they are, all set. It is
        enough to make me want to take up nice Ahrimanic, abstract, academic


        Hi Deb, you wrote:

        > Conspiracy theories:
        > An observation that I've gradually built up is that once people
        > surrender to becoming a conspiracy theory "true believer" all
        > careful, methodical, critical thinking goes out the window. All
        > phenomena become part of the "conspiracy." I don't know what can be
        > done about this problem, because I think it quite likely that their
        > are indeed brotherhoods and other behind the scenes manipulators out
        > there, but I feel the need to tread very carefully in using this
        > possible reality to explain anything. It feels like a temptation and
        > a cop-out.
        > Some of the problems:
        > Scapegoating-seeing bad guys everywhere and judging people as
        > fundamentally evil on scanty evidence. There is a great big
        > conspiracy hiding all the evidence, so you just have to take it on
        > faith, etc., etc.

        I've been a member of a list that has a whole lot of what you are
        going on all the time: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/12-step-

        There are 775 members and the basic theory that gets repeated is that
        steps groups are evil "to the core." Sound familiar? I'm finding many
        similarities to some of the rants that I used to read on the WC list.
        interesting also because there is a very dominate atheistic bias
        doing it's
        usual anti-religion crusade under the guise of Kantian morality or

        It's the same old "us and them" thing. Dualistic thinking
        Neurotically absolute cynicism.

        I like to play ball on one side of the coin occasionally, but it's
        nice to
        swing back to center every now and then.


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