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Answer for letter 38657 Part V

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  • ottmar12
    15 What can we hope for? a) Rudolf Steiner s last attempt to form an organism of initiation, the class failed. So what can we do? Although the greater part of
    Message 1 of 89 , Nov 25, 2008
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      15 What can we hope for?

      a) Rudolf Steiner's last attempt to form an organism of initiation, the class failed.

      So what can we do? Although the greater part of my life was in the 20 th century, and I deeply feel the tragedy of the 20 th century, I can feel that there are new chances, possibilities in the 21 st century. We can take our spiritual development in our hands and many people do so, not only in anthro circles, it is just as you said `the principle of "exoteric initiation" has bled out into mass-cultural society as a whole'.


      b)`Self-knowledge is the key and the starting-point for any other kind.' I absolutely agree. Self-knowledge  makes you humble and lets all illusions go. Illusion and enthusiasm are necessary to get us going, the pain of letting illusions go, of disillusionment  must be felt however at a certain point.



      meditations and exercises are not free of dangers. RS spoke of criteria whether our meditations are of luciferic nature or not. This is not to be taken lightly.  It is good when you feel a certain hindrance to do your meditation, your head gives many reasons not to do them regularly, or first to do certain jobs etc., it's not good when you suck great satisfaction or joy out of your meditation (like sex? :))   And he describes a subtle feeling or sentiment you have, when you didn't do your meditation.


      c)We can move the Foundation Stone in our soul (and put study and purification first), the spiritual world has come closer to us, the etheric-astral atmosphere is different today, it is easier to cross the threshold. And danger looms again, can we really discern pure from evil spirits? Remember what RS said about the mystici in the middle ages, that they often took Luzifer for Christ, because Luzifer stood directly before Christ, took the same form of Christ.

      Try to find a copy of the novel about John Dee by Gustav Meyrink, The Angle of or on the Western Window.


      d)My personal conviction: I'm absolutely sure that the Christ has appeared in the etheric world, in the second half of the 20 th century though and he is still there. That means, he is very close to us.

      For those, for me who cleave to Steiner's legacy, it means: –study –moral perfection –exercises.   We have plenty material to study about exercises. The Foundation Stone, the class mantras x1, the exercises from the ES x2.


      X1 The class texts were not intended for individual study though, but only for groups. The class texts in German were available ever since 1977, not only since 1992. Mrs Wiesberger, the grand old lady of the Nachlassverwaltung, the prima inter pares, personally told me, that in 1977 they printed a certain number of the class texts, I think she said 7000 and gave 3 or 4000 to the Anthr. Soc. And they always kept the right to sell or give a copy of the rest to anyone they thought right. Now anyone can obtain a complete copy of the class. (In the 80s you could get pirate copies in Rotterdam.)

      X2 For me it is most revealing, enlightening to see the modifications or variations in the meditations for the different disciples in the old ES, the slight or larger variations of  the mantras, the imaginations, the Rueckschau or the looking back at the day, (the evaluation of the day, an exercise Pythagroas already asked of his disciples in his Golden Verses) These meditaions can be found in GA 267 and 268, called Seelenuebungen, exercises for the soul, also see GA 40 and 40a Wahrspruchworte.


      e)So we can do a lot individually, spiritual evolution can and does take up some aspects of initiation. But there are aspects in initiation that are for groups only:

      Our 5 th cultural period is the age of the individual struggling for knowledge ( the Faust period),

      in initiation you realize, make happen steps of the future, of the 6 th period, Philadelphia (Kitesh), where not the individual is `saved', but the whole city, the community, real communism, you need to have or form a group (of course on the basis of factual individual progress and initiation), true spiritual brotherhood

      and what is even further away, the 7 th period, Laodizea, the group must be structured, the 7 th period as the resurrection of the first period means, a new hierarchie, now not based on blood heritage, not on money, intellect or biggest mouth, but on the spiritual level of development.


      f)All these 3 aspects – individuality -group unity -hierarchy can be found prefigurated in the class. These 3 aspects, which contradict each other at the first glance, are not really understood in anthro circles, hardly or never talked about. But these 3 aspects must be understood, if you want to understand what an organism of initiation is.


      g)And another treasure that RS gave us is the reverse cultus, which means a form of working and communicating in a serious anthroposophic `study group'. This reverse cultus is not yet explored and practised. The term mystery of human encounter or meeting, Begegnung in German, rencontre en francais belongs into this context. ( I know one German book that talks of it: Gerhard von Beckerath, Gespraech als Kultus  subtitle Christlicher Einweihungsweg  Wiederkunft  Bruderschaft  Verlag am Goetheanum 2005   )


      So we have: –study  -moral perfection  -exercises: How to attain.., The foundation stone, many many prayers/verses of RS,   -the spiritual world  (the Christ, Michael) that has come very close to help us. I haven't come to a conclusion about Anthroposophia yet, Stephen, but I will study and meditate about it. I cannot just agree with it or wash it away, it deserves a serious reaction and that takes time, perhaps years.


      For each of the aspects above, you could quote pages and pages from Rudolf Steiner and his students. Of course you can also find arguments against any of the aspects above and some ideas may contradict or hurt members of this list, but I'm sure my points are well founded, although they are not the last word on everything.  I have no problem with different opinions, but I won't enter into silly arguments or hate debate.

      Greetings Ottmar

    • val2160
      ... Smith ... want ... income. ... University ... about ... It wasn t the first study of this kind that I found-just the most recent. Here s another article:
      Message 89 of 89 , Dec 18, 2008
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
        <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > I regret to inform you both that you're TOO OLD for me.
        > >
        > > http://www.physorg.com/news147615590.html
        > > <http://www.physorg.com/news147615590.html#>
        > > Myth about 'dirty old men' supported by science Middle-aged men
        > > younger women, often touting their intelligence and their high
        > > This is shown in research at Gothenburg University and Oxford
        > > that studied 400 lonely hearts ads to see how men and women choose
        > > partners.
        > > <http://physorg.tradepub.com/?pt=cat&page=_INTL>
        > Research
        > > in the theory of evolution includes a number of accepted theories
        > > how men and women choose their partners.
        > They had to spend good money to research that?

        It wasn't the first study of this kind that I found-just the most
        recent. Here's another article:


        A team from Vienna University studied more than 11,600 Swedish men and
        women, aged 45-55, and their partners and found that relationships in
        which the man was six years older than the woman produced the most
        children - an average of 2.2.

        Women placed more emphasis on resources and status - leading them
        typically to choose older men.

        Martin Fieder, who led the team and whose research was published online
        by the Royal Society journal Biology Letters, said: "These findings may
        account for the phenomenon that men typically prefer and mate with women
        younger than themselves, whereas women usually desire and mate with men
        older than themselves.

        "We conclude that the age preference for the partner increases
        individual fitness of both men and women and may thus be an
        evolutionarily acquired trait."

        When the team examined those who had changed partners after the birth of
        their first child they found men ended up with women younger than their
        first choice, while women chose men who were younger than their first
        partner but still a little older than themselves.

        Mr Fieder said: "These findings support the reported age preferences of
        ageing men for increasingly younger women as well as of women for a
        partner just a little older than themselves.

        "We attribute the shift to a younger partner to a potential compensation
        for the fertility loss caused by the individuals' increasing age."
        >Cheese, I'd a telled em
        > fer nutting.

        Sorry to be the one to break it to you but your sample size would be too
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