Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Building our hut

Expand Messages
  • Albert Sándor
    What is sin ? Sin is to err. Noone wants to err, deliberatly. This is just unconcieveable. But both ignorance and quilt is lifted by the light of
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1 12:42 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      What is sin ? Sin is to err. Noone wants to err, deliberatly. This is just unconcieveable.
      But both ignorance and quilt is lifted by the light of understanding.
       
      On escaping ... one way of the lower I is to make a new personality by remarrying, relocating, leaveing your antourage, or even leaving the physical body, following a promise instead of the existing hell. Yet hell is the real thing, and the promise is false.
      Hell needs to be transformed. Desire has to be tamed. New more elevated desires can be evolved. This is hard work, under pressure. It's natural we awant to flee. The scariest thing is realizing that really there is no place we can go, and in this I admit, Eli Wamberg is right ... we need to know from personal experience what is wrong.
      I did wrong, and harmed a person, knowing it is wrong. I said: the promise of heaven is so tempting, I must follow it, I must know it. It is my chance, now. I will pay my debt, later. Did that choice worth taken ? Yes, because the promise of heaven has been granted, and I was enjoying it until I messed it up again, to the level., that it became hell again. Than I heard a new promise ... but this time I knew exactly what it worths. I knew that it worths only what I can make it worth. Now, I said, forget about the promise, transform your hell into heaven. I am paying my debt, now. I can't afford any more debts.
      So I put my will where my reason says so, I scranch my teeths, I bear the pain, and after a few attempts, it is not that bad, anymore. I even have grown to love my hell, as it does not let me forget who I am, what I did, what I am supposed to do. It keeps me alert, aware, and cautious.
       
      Following the thoughts of Steiner is a great relief. They also help keeping the right perspective, the righ attitude. It is a no brainer: it's about choosing my master/teacher: the hell I'm in or learnig, applying antrophosophy, selflessness, love.
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kim
      Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 12:27 AM
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Building our hut

      Hi Dottie, and Friends

      Your inspired 'And the words fall away' made me write the following:

      A danish Rosicrucian teacher, Eli Wamberg (for scandinavian readers), said: "You are born on this Earth to sin, so sin." What he meant is that "To live is to sin, so if you don't sin, you don't live and you don't learn."

      Another one liner: "It's no sin to fall, but its a sin not to rise from the mud again."

      Another danish Rosicrucian, Heinrich Hansen, phrased the following rule: "All development happens through correcting errors." (My translation, i would appreciate a better phrasing.)

      After many, many lives on this planet of ours, it happens that man has tried every sin imaginable, so much that he gets tired of sinning, and of living. He has tried everything, there are no ambitions left.There is no energy left and no wishes anymore. He is in hell on earth.

      The psychological description would be something like a stress depression, asolutely burned out, not an iota of adrenalin back.

      The afore mentioned RC teacher, Eli, closed the organization after him, as the world no longer needed living teachers anymore, man was ripe for a new 'natural' form of initiation. The one developed by CR and co, and described by RS from various views.

      This is happening today, now! It is what the Rosicrucian teachers has prepared in centuries. Steiner said that it was the people of the Platonic stream (Chartres) which is incarnating (Goethe, Heine, and others from that period), helped by those from the Aristotelian stream (including the old Anthros). See Aristotelian and Platonic Streams.

      Its reasonable to think that many of you, who are participating here, are part of this.

      As a Rosicrucian student you don't have a master, you have a teacher, a brother, whether he is incarnated or discarnated (except, there is no incarnated teachers any more, only guru's and thats another matter:).

      The teacher can guiode you, and in the preparation for the initiation, put you under dire stress, which can be felt like hell, but in the end you are the responsible for your actions, not any master.

      The teachers you 'meet' are members of one of the two streams, and persons you already know, possibly from this life, but certainly from many of your former lifes. It could be a person from this life, which you had dear, or key persons you didn't  have a near connection to in this life, but you had respect for and/or who had changed the direction of your life.

      The real hell comes when the Lower I is trying to hold on to the old ways, even through it knows there is no future there. It tries every way to escape, and it may be felt a little zombie like. One of the popular ways to escape is to make a personality on the web.

      Steiner mentions two major traps, the Luciferic: To love and be proud of your own thinking, and the Ahrimanic: To write about it, and for that, the internet is perfectly suited. (Personally I see the internet as a beutifully way top exhange ideas and to search knowledge, but from a certain point in your development it can be a great danger.)

      This here takes my mind from doing what it should do, so I continues a little more. What was it, I should do, then? I should stop thriving on my own thoughts, and use the conciousness soul instead (Ways to Christ). You do that by just sitting alone with yourselves and your own thoughts, preferably thinking about spiritual science, as described by RS in connection with the new Michael. No fun like writing, talking, reading, saying mantras or looking at TV or out of the window, just thinking, for hours, days, or even weeks, depending on the need. Thoughts begins pupping up, really new insight comes by. One of the main obstacles here is to keep the higher I awake (also mentioned by RS), it can be really hellish to get through that, especially if your self confidence been eroded through the journey.

      From time to time you will here have the experience Dottie talked about, where you are unsure if it was your own thoughts or others who thought in you. In some situations thoughts pops up clarifying your thoughts in the conciousness soul+Manas. Other times where the thought exchanges can appear are in the periods of half sleep.

      May the Roses Blossom on your Cross,
      Kim

    • Albert Sándor
      I will say it in my own language, as this is the channel I am used to. Mi Atyánk, Ki vagy a mennyekben Szenteltessék meg a Te Neved Jöjjön el a Te
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2 2:00 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        I will say it in my own language, as this is the channel I am used to.
         
        Mi Atyánk, Ki vagy a mennyekben
        Szenteltessék meg a Te Neved
        Jöjjön el a Te országod
        Legyen meg a Te akaratod
        Amint a mennyben, úgy a földön is
        Mindennapi kenyerünket, add meg nekünk ma
        És bocsásd meg a mi vétkeinket
        amiképpen mi is megbocsátunk az ellenünk vétkezõknek
        Ne vigy minket a kísértésbe
        De szabadíts meg a gonosztól
        Mert Tiéd az Ország, a Hatalom, a Dícsõség
        Mindörökkön örökké !
        Ámen.
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 5:55 AM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Building our hut

        Well, very very strange things today dear friends. And from the morning until now just about I am saying the Lord's Prayer. I started this morning as I was feeling an attack coming on. And one did. And it is a retaliation thing that his happening and I can better understand all of the weak body feelings I have been having and how only my own thinking with that of Christ wakes me up from my body trying to give in. Strange.

         

        Something is happening at my work place that is unconsciousnable. And now that this young lady who is working from retaliation with a President who has diminished thinking a final push has occurred and I do not know what will happen other than those who love this club are going to fight like they have never before. It is me this young lady is after and if you could have seen her at the board meeting, you, as Steiner students, would have seen immediately who she was working with. It was as if the exorcist was right in front of us it was so awful.


        The Lords Prayer

        Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name,

        Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven.
        Give us this day, our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, forever,

        Amen

         

         




        --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kim <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
        From: Kim <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Building our hut
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 2:27 PM

        Hi Dottie, and Friends

        Your inspired 'And the words fall away' made me write the following:

        A danish Rosicrucian teacher, Eli Wamberg (for scandinavian readers), said: "You are born on this Earth to sin, so sin." What he meant is that "To live is to sin, so if you don't sin, you don't live and you don't learn."

        Another one liner: "It's no sin to fall, but its a sin not to rise from the mud again."

        Another danish Rosicrucian, Heinrich Hansen, phrased the following rule: "All development happens through correcting errors." (My translation, i would appreciate a better phrasing.)

        After many, many lives on this planet of ours, it happens that man has tried every sin imaginable, so much that he gets tired of sinning, and of living. He has tried everything, there are no ambitions left.There is no energy left and no wishes anymore. He is in hell on earth.

        The psychological description would be something like a stress depression, asolutely burned out, not an iota of adrenalin back.

        The afore mentioned RC teacher, Eli, closed the organization after him, as the world no longer needed living teachers anymore, man was ripe for a new 'natural' form of initiation. The one developed by CR and co, and described by RS from various views.

        This is happening today, now! It is what the Rosicrucian teachers has prepared in centuries. Steiner said that it was the people of the Platonic stream (Chartres) which is incarnating (Goethe, Heine, and others from that period), helped by those from the Aristotelian stream (including the old Anthros). See Aristotelian and Platonic Streams.

        Its reasonable to think that many of you, who are participating here, are part of this.

        As a Rosicrucian student you don't have a master, you have a teacher, a brother, whether he is incarnated or discarnated (except, there is no incarnated teachers any more, only guru's and thats another matter:).

        The teacher can guiode you, and in the preparation for the initiation, put you under dire stress, which can be felt like hell, but in the end you are the responsible for your actions, not any master.

        The teachers you 'meet' are members of one of the two streams, and persons you already know, possibly from this life, but certainly from many of your former lifes. It could be a person from this life, which you had dear, or key persons you didn't  have a near connection to in this life, but you had respect for and/or who had changed the direction of your life.

        The real hell comes when the Lower I is trying to hold on to the old ways, even through it knows there is no future there. It tries every way to escape, and it may be felt a little zombie like. One of the popular ways to escape is to make a personality on the web.

        Steiner mentions two major traps, the Luciferic: To love and be proud of your own thinking, and the Ahrimanic: To write about it, and for that, the internet is perfectly suited. (Personally I see the internet as a beutifully way top exhange ideas and to search knowledge, but from a certain point in your development it can be a great danger.)

        This here takes my mind from doing what it should do, so I continues a little more. What was it, I should do, then? I should stop thriving on my own thoughts, and use the conciousness soul instead (Ways to Christ). You do that by just sitting alone with yourselves and your own thoughts, preferably thinking about spiritual science, as described by RS in connection with the new Michael. No fun like writing, talking, reading, saying mantras or looking at TV or out of the window, just thinking, for hours, days, or even weeks, depending on the need. Thoughts begins pupping up, really new insight comes by. One of the main obstacles here is to keep the higher I awake (also mentioned by RS), it can be really hellish to get through that, especially if your self confidence been eroded through the journey.

        From time to time you will here have the experience Dottie talked about, where you are unsure if it was your own thoughts or others who thought in you. In some situations thoughts pops up clarifying your thoughts in the conciousness soul+Manas. Other times where the thought exchanges can appear are in the periods of half sleep.

        May the Roses Blossom on your Cross,
        Kim


      • dottie zold
        Hey Friends,   We are under assault here at the Woman s Club by a two ladies trying to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I am
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 5 9:36 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hey Friends,
           
          We are under assault here at the Woman's Club by a two ladies trying to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I am hoping a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so loving kind and considerate that they are holding these two in their highest thoughts, meanwhile we are being threatened and intimidated non stop. Tomorrow is the showdown and all I can say is if you have any light to offer that you throw it our way for the highest good of what is to be, to the Woman's Club. The meeting will take place at 10:30 am cali time.
           
          So, George Washington could not tell a lie is actually the way of saying he was working with the higher worlds. Once you work with the higher worlds it is because you are on your way to being trusted to hold all things in balance  no matter what. So when people say 'there was no cherry tree' they are right! it was only to show to those that are attaining a certain ability to try and begin coworking consciously with the Beings that this is part of the path: no lying, no trying to alter anything from your own will. And you must catch the thinking that continues to try and do that. This is where Rudolf Steiner's work helps us towards this end.
           
          It seems to me that when we begin to walk the body we walk it from the place known to the kabbalists as Dath, its from there that we begin to control the body. We usually control it from the Solar Plexus but thats when it is from the lower will I think or so it seems to me, those that are more will based.
           
          I was thinking that the picture we have of Adam and Eve stuck together at the spine, both facing the opposite way, is actually a picture of the spirit and man. We are united at the spine. And so we have to step away from the spine I think and then we are on our way to walking the body or that happens as we begin to wake up our Will. I always wondered what that picture's meaning was. Wel, at least that's what I have come to through my pondering and experience.
           
          So many things about Peter, and about the Garden and Transfiguration etc. So many things I want to share if I can get out of hell alive.
           
          All good things and thanks,
          Dottie

        • Frank Thomas Smith
          ... to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I am hoping a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so loving kind and considerate
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 6 2:02 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
            <dottie_z@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Friends,
            >
            > We are under assault here at the Woman's Club by a two ladies trying
            to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I
            am hoping a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so loving kind
            and considerate that they are holding these two in their highest
            thoughts, meanwhile we are being threatened and intimidated non stop.
            Tomorrow is the showdown and all I can say is if you have any light to
            offer that you throw it our way for the highest good of what is to be,
            to the Woman's Club. The meeting will take place at 10:30 am cali time.
            ______
            Ask yourself what would you do as the moderator of an anthropop list.
            Frank
          • write3chairs
            ... So, how did it go, Dottie? I hope the bullies lost! My experience with bullies is that it is often best to give them enough rope to hang themselves with.
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 6 2:59 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold wrote:
              >
              > Hey Friends,
              >  
              > We are under assault here at the Woman's Club by
              > a two ladies trying to impose their will against
              > the majority. Usually bullies win but I am hoping
              > a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so
              > loving kind and considerate that they are holding
              > these two in their highest thoughts, meanwhile we
              > are being threatened and intimidated non stop.
              > Tomorrow is the showdown and all I can say is if
              > you have any light to offer that you throw it our
              > way for the highest good of what is to be, to the
              > Woman's Club. The meeting will take place at
              > 10:30 am cali time.

              So, how did it go, Dottie? I hope the bullies lost!
              My experience with bullies is that it is often best
              to give them enough rope to hang themselves with.
              Maybe that's mean, even being a bully myself. ;)

              Cheers,
              Jennifer
            • dottie zold
              Miraculously we have overcome. I was not allowed in the meeting but when I heard there were cameras and lawyers and recorders and my girls were intimidated I
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 6 9:10 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Miraculously we have overcome. I was not allowed in the meeting but when I heard there were cameras and lawyers and recorders and my girls were intimidated I walked over there and walked through the room telling the man to keep the cameras rolling as I wanted people to see the intimidation that was occurring here while they were trying to take this group by stealth. I then walked out and had a great sense of peace.
                 
                The girls overcame all their tries of getting one another off the board. The lawyers were so confidant that they would win that they actually had the replacement names on the next few pages of decisions and votes to be made. For shame.
                 
                There may be more but an amazing case has now been made and documented regarding intimidation and harrassment. My child who hid herself in the upstairs projector room unbeknownst to me began texting me about the comings and goings. It was pretty surreal. My mom called and I just could not speak to her for a couple weeks. I was concerned to let my father know as he would be so concerned and I did not want to bring that to him. But today she called and she was so positive as if she knew the outcome already, as if she made some agreement with God and she knew it was going to come forth. I felt strengthened by that. And then my niece started texting me and in the end I said 'just send all your best thoughts to this girls fighting the good fight.' And she said 'we just formed a prayer circle'. I mean this child is like 12 years old, incredible.
                 
                There's probably  more to come. But the worst is over and this retaliation can be seen for what it is. I am thankful for this. It could have all been handled very differently though and the karmic gifts were amazing for lasting through it in good will. I mean I just can't begin to say the amazing thoughts that occur to one who is standing in the Garden of Transformation and willing to say 'not my will but Thy will, but if you pass this cup from me'.  Meeting our karma honorably and not looking  to 'save ourselves' or any harm or will to the other, pure openess about what may come.
                 
                I send my best thoughts to those that stood with us as we moved through this with ease and grace. My ladies are so amazing and never ever lost their graciousness in all of this, so much so that they were offering Reiki healing to those who stood opposed in an effort towards healing even though we were all in hell due to the implications for my person.
                 
                All good things and much love,
                Dottie

                --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Frank Thomas Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
                From: Frank Thomas Smith <eltrigal78@...>
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: George Washington and other things
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 2:02 PM

                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hey Friends,
                >  
                > We are under assault here at the Woman's Club by a two ladies trying
                to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I
                am hoping a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so loving kind
                and considerate that they are holding these two in their highest
                thoughts, meanwhile we are being threatened and intimidated non stop.
                Tomorrow is the showdown and all I can say is if you have any light to
                offer that you throw it our way for the highest good of what is to be,
                to the Woman's Club. The meeting will take place at 10:30 am cali time.
                ______
                Ask yourself what would you do as the moderator of an anthropop list.
                Frank  
                
                
                ------------------------------------
                
                Yahoo! Groups Links
                
                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/
                
                <*> Your email settings:
                    Individual Email | Traditional
                
                <*> To change settings online go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/join
                    (Yahoo! ID required)
                
                <*> To change settings via email:
                    mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow-digest@yahoogroups.com 
                    mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                
                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    anthroposophy_tomorrow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                
                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                
                

              • write3chairs
                ... when I heard there were cameras and lawyers and recorders and my girls were intimidated I walked over there and walked through the room telling the man to
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 10 9:56 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold wrote:

                  > Miraculously we have overcome. I was not allowed in the meeting but
                  when I heard there were cameras and lawyers and recorders and my
                  girls were intimidated I walked over there and walked through the
                  room telling the man to keep the cameras rolling as I wanted people
                  to see the intimidation that was occurring here while they were
                  trying to take this group by stealth. I then walked out and had a
                  great sense of peace.
                  >  
                  > The girls overcame all their tries of getting one another off the
                  board. The lawyers were so confidant that they would win that they
                  actually had the replacement names on the next few pages of decisions
                  and votes to be made. For shame.
                  >  
                  > There may be more but an amazing case has now been made and
                  documented regarding intimidation and harrassment. My child who hid
                  herself in the upstairs projector room unbeknownst to me began
                  texting me about the comings and goings. It was pretty surreal. My
                  mom called and I just could not speak to her for a couple weeks. I
                  was concerned to let my father know as he would be so concerned and I
                  did not want to bring that to him. But today she called and she was
                  so positive as if she knew the outcome already, as if she made some
                  agreement with God and she knew it was going to come forth. I felt
                  strengthened by that. And then my niece started texting me and in the
                  end I said 'just send all your best thoughts to this girls fighting
                  the good fight.' And she said 'we just formed a prayer circle'. I
                  mean this child is like 12 years old, incredible.
                  >  
                  > There's probably  more to come. But the worst is over and this
                  retaliation can be seen for what it is. I am thankful for this. It
                  could have all been handled very differently though and the karmic
                  gifts were amazing for lasting through it in good will. I mean I just
                  can't begin to say the amazing thoughts that occur to one who is
                  standing in the Garden of Transformation and willing to say 'not my
                  will but Thy will, but if you pass this cup from me'.  Meeting our
                  karma honorably and not looking  to 'save ourselves' or any harm or
                  will to the other, pure openess about what may come.
                  >  
                  > I send my best thoughts to those that stood with us as we moved
                  through this with ease and grace. My ladies are so amazing and never
                  ever lost their graciousness in all of this, so much so that they
                  were offering Reiki healing to those who stood opposed in an effort
                  towards healing even though we were all in hell due to the
                  implications for my person.
                  >  
                  > All good things and much love,
                  > Dottie


                  Dearest Dottie, I for one would love to hear this whole story if you
                  are inclined to tell it.

                  All good things and much love to you!

                  Jennifer


                  > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Frank Thomas Smith wrote:

                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hey Friends,
                  > >
                  > > We are under assault here at the Woman's Club by a two ladies
                  trying
                  > to impose their will against the majority. Usually bullies win but I
                  > am hoping a disaster can be averted. All my ladies are so loving
                  kind
                  > and considerate that they are holding these two in their highest
                  > thoughts, meanwhile we are being threatened and intimidated non
                  stop.
                  > Tomorrow is the showdown and all I can say is if you have any light
                  to
                  > offer that you throw it our way for the highest good of what is to
                  be,
                  > to the Woman's Club. The meeting will take place at 10:30 am cali
                  time.
                  > ______
                  > Ask yourself what would you do as the moderator of an anthropop
                  list.
                  > Frank
                • dottie zold
                  Dear friends, I have this quote by Michael Luenig just sent to me to help in this most difficult time:   That which is Christ like in me will be crucified it
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 11 8:03 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear friends, I have this quote by Michael Luenig just sent to me to help in this most difficult time:
                     
                    'That which is Christ like in me will be crucified
                    it will suffer and be broken.

                    That which is Christ like in me will rise up
                    it will love and create'
                     
                    All good things and much love,
                    Dottie

                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.