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Love in the Hole

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  • elfuncle
    First off, I d like to extend the last love campaign to make it a very long one -- so long, in fact, that it will be superceded by a much higher and deeper
    Message 1 of 16 , May 15, 2008
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      First off, I'd like to extend the last love campaign to make it a very long one -- so long, in fact, that it will be superceded by a much higher and deeper love, shining bright from the spiritual sun, when this divine love will radiate from our solar plexus and we begin to shine from within, gradually transforming the Earth to a new Sun in the making, which is one of the precious esoteric secrets of cosmic evolution.



      Well, it was a secret when it was guarded Mystery Wisdom, but now it's all over the internet, and soon the Rudolf Steiner Archive will have the complete works of Rudolf Steiner in all living languages.

      We are reminded by Christ to love our enemies:

      "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. ButI say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do goodto them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,and persecute you; Thatye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makethhis sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on thejust and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
      -- Matthew 5:43-48

      For this reason, we should have a daily prayer for the Basement Children and the Creatures of Darkness, with plenty of Agape-love and blessings. They hang out in an Abyss where no light is allowed to shine and where the very word "love" is anathema because it makes them puke. They need healing, New Age Spiritual Healing!

      I take a deep breath, hold my nose, and peek into that place sometimes, and what I saw last time reminded me of the Discovery Channel, like from the jungle. There's this guy Brad, he's not an anthroposophist but some sort of Jungian philosopher type, and he defends Steiner along with Jung and Joseph Cambell and Gandhi and whatever, and he points to various curricula at universities for New Age ideas at the academic level including those of Steiner, and this stance of his makes the hole dwellers pounce on him 20 to 1 desperate to devour the poor fella. So they're writing fifty posts a day or something to discredit Brad, although he's only been talking basic common sense in a general sort of way. And that's where the Discovery Channel comes in. It's like watching a flock of hungry predators cooperating to bring down a tasty beast, only to fight over the carcass afterwards, but they haven't gotten a fatal bite into Brad's jugular yet, because he's a huge bull with a thick neck and sharp horns. It's not a wise place for anthroposophists to be, because they're only helping PLANS acculumate lots of text and adding to that text, which is published on their website to attract Google searchers on key words.

      In addition, those Basement Children and babysnakes are actually spending their hard-earned money on paid hate-campaigns through pay-per-click Google ads. (If you happen to see one, it may be a good idea to click on it.)

      It became too much for the ringmaster Mr. Dugan, however, when Brad mentioned love in the Abyss. Check this out:

      Thu May 15, 2008 7:06 pm
      Dan Dugan

      Admin: off-topic warning (Brad) Re: [wc] What is the sound of one hand clapping. - Zen Haiku

      Brad Martin, you wrote:

      > "All you need is Love." The Beatles
      >
      > This is a quiz. There are no time limits. You can retake the test for
      > the rest of your life.
      >
      > Multiple choice question.
      >
      > On Love
      > 1. Is Love a belief?
      > 2. Is Love an experience?
      >
      > Essay question.
      >
      > On Life
      > Would you prefer to live your life with a 'zest for life' and
      > a 'preponderance of loving affections', or would you prefer to be a
      > misanthrope, a curmudgeon, a negative person, an unloving person? If
      > the former, how would you go about gaining that state of mind called
      > Love?


      Please don't post if you have nothing substantive to add to the
      discussion.

      -Dan Dugan
      Moderator


      Like I said, love acts on a hole-dweller like garlic, or the shadow of a cross, or sunshine, acts on a vampire, or like silver bullets act on werewolves.  And it's very, very important that we remain compassionate. There's this wonderful and moving Norwegian fairy tale about that kiddie troll -- he was blind like most of them deep inside the mountain, but his father had one eye, and he had been promised that he could borrow his old man's eye on his 500th birthday and go for a stroll. So his five hundredth birthday came along, and his father lent him his eye so he could go out after sundown, but he had to promise to return before sunrise, because if daylight hit him, he would melt into a lake.

      The kiddie troll promised, and he went outside and looked around with his borrowed eye, at the starry sky, all the houses, the railway and so on, and he was so fascinated that he strolled around all night long and quite forgot that the sun would rise until it was too late: As soon as he remembered that, the sun came up on the horizon and hit him with an early morning ray, and the sweet kiddie-troll immediately melted into a lake.

      It was a nice lake in Telemark, and when I was a kid, my grandfather owned that property, the whole forest around it, and he had bred some freshwater fish in it, and we used to go fishing together, almost until I was ten years old, when my grandfather passed away. We also used to swim in the lake, and in winter, we ice skated on it. So that little troll became a martyr, in a sense, for our benefit.

      And this is how we should think about the Basement Children, the Hole Creatures, because they're just as sweet and adorable as that little troll who got lost in the world with his old man's eye and then struck by the sun.

      So we've gotta love them, not our of duty, but because we can't help ourselves as long as they're so adorable.




      To Dan, Debra, Diana,Pete, Peter, Zooey, Roger and all the others:
      We love you!!

      The question is: How can we sneak a little love into this Abyss?




      Cheers,

      Tarjei
    • Albert Sándor
      There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you. I am sure I ll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura
      Message 2 of 16 , May 15, 2008
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        There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
         
        I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
         
        That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war. My front lines are elsewhere, though. Somehow, I believe in old fashioned karma, where the people who count are those who I really meet.
         
        Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.
         
        And by these debates, even well intentioned persons feed the aversion towards anthroposophy. Especially, because it is so an elusive subject.
        I am sure, that by talking, trying to explain, to reason, little can be done. Who is not ready for it, will not understand it. In that case, these debates serev a negative purpose, feeding the astral and intellectual fog of war, and that serves the two notorious world judges very well.

      • elfuncle
        ... the pigs will eat you. ... the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn. ... judging from the thick astral fog
        Message 3 of 16 , May 16, 2008
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Albert Sándor <montek@...> wrote:
          >
          > There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
          >
          > I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
          >
          > That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war.


          I agree wholeheartedly. And that is why it's so important to pray for and bless those beings, to act in the spirit of the Risen One,  to send them buckets and truckloads of love.

          > Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.


          No, they're only making certain corners of the internet very sorry places to be, which makes things so much sadder for those who are stuck there all the time. Which gives us even more cause to shwer them with the Love of the Spiritual Sun, with blessings for eternity.



          Cheers,

          Tarjei
        • val2160
          It s a big, a big heart sun, shining on all the big people, in the big heart world... ... The hole quote of the month should be a contest with at least a grand
          Message 4 of 16 , May 16, 2008
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            It's a big, a big heart sun, shining on all the big people,

            in the big heart world...

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <hisholiness@...> wrote:
             
            > The question is: How can we sneak a little love into this Abyss?

            The hole quote of the month should be a contest with at least a grand prize selected by vote and awarded on a regular basis, or more fittingly, a prize for each nominee selected and sent by each nominator.

            I'm thinking Waldorf or Steiner related prizes of course. The beauty in this, of course, is in the eye of the beholder-so if they don't want to use whatever's sent then they can dispose of it in any manner they see fit-it's a prize yes, but not maybe their prize possesion.

            So, fe, I have a quote in mind from Zooey that I'll post here in a bit. And, if I had the responsibility of sending my nominee a prize I would send her a beautiful jacket or bag-lovingly and exquisitely deisgned and hand painted by a W grad, something personal with Zooey in mind-maybe with a Yorkie on it.  Then she could, you know,  wear it, or give it away or burn it.  Whatever she felt was, you know, most satisfying.

            I'd send it to Dan with a lovely handwritten note and then Dan could send it on to Zooey, if he chose to do so.

            Love, of course,

            Val

          • muskiet
            Hallo Albert This interests me greatly. What is your language? Because mine is Afrikaans, and we have the exact same saying about pigs Could it be that we two
            Message 5 of 16 , May 16, 2008
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              Hallo Albert
              This interests me greatly. What is your language?
              Because mine is Afrikaans, and we have the exact same saying about pigs
              Could it be that we two share the language of the oppressor?
              Here on an Anthro Forum?
              Could I be so lucky?
              Please tell me it is true
              engemi
               
               
               
               

              There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
               
              I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
               
              That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war. My front lines are elsewhere, though. Somehow, I believe in old fashioned karma, where the people who count are those who I really meet.
               
              Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.
               
              And by these debates, even well intentioned persons feed the aversion towards anthroposophy. Especially, because it is so an elusive subject.
              I am sure, that by talking, trying to explain, to reason, little can be done. Who is not ready for it, will not understand it. In that case, these debates serev a negative purpose, feeding the astral and intellectual fog of war, and that serves the two notorious world judges very well.

            • Albert Sándor
              Hello, engemi ! No, I have to dissapoint you. I am hungarian. Massimo Montanari, medievalist, differentiates between pig loving, and pig hating nations.
              Message 6 of 16 , May 16, 2008
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                Hello, engemi !
                 
                No, I have to dissapoint you. I am hungarian.
                 
                Massimo Montanari, medievalist, differentiates between pig loving, and pig hating nations. Apparently, both hungarians and afrikaans love pigs ! :)
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: muskiet
                Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 AM
                Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Love in the Hole

                Hallo Albert
                This interests me greatly. What is your language?
                Because mine is Afrikaans, and we have the exact same saying about pigs
                Could it be that we two share the language of the oppressor?
                Here on an Anthro Forum?
                Could I be so lucky?
                Please tell me it is true
                engemi
                 
                 
                 
                 

                There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
                 
                I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
                 
                That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war. My front lines are elsewhere, though. Somehow, I believe in old fashioned karma, where the people who count are those who I really meet.
                 
                Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.
                 
                And by these debates, even well intentioned persons feed the aversion towards anthroposophy. Especially, because it is so an elusive subject.
                I am sure, that by talking, trying to explain, to reason, little can be done. Who is not ready for it, will not understand it. In that case, these debates serev a negative purpose, feeding the astral and intellectual fog of war, and that serves the two notorious world judges very well.

              • muskiet
                Hi Albert Right But I wonder how an hungarian saying like that landed in the niddle of Afrikaans The way of the word on earth facinate me The various sounds
                Message 7 of 16 , May 17, 2008
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                  Hi Albert
                  Right
                  But I wonder how an hungarian saying like that landed in the niddle of Afrikaans
                  The way of the word on earth facinate me
                  The various sounds that co-inside in languages far apart from another
                  and the similar ways people think in various languages - like here with us
                  and the ways in which objects are expressed.
                  Take TREE: it has a 'feeling' (for me much like the English people)
                  of breezes through leaves and shimering green, not the grounded part of the trunk
                  Then there is BAUM; a sturdy solid planted in the ground sort of sound
                  (for me a lot like the Germans)
                  The French hide the total meaning of what a tree looks (sound) like in ARBRE
                  by that I mean I don't find the way a tree looks in what arbre sounds like
                  We call it BOOM, the Dutch also call it BOOM, but pronounce it BOUM
                  The Sotho call it sehlare (the before l is prounounced g: seglar)
                  It sounds like the sotho people - colorful, arty
                  In Zulu it is called UMUTHI; again much more solid than the previous
                  and so on and so forth
                   
                  Oh well, just a little light diversion for the heaviness of Anthro stuff
                  Promise not to speak about trees again in this serious forum
                  love to all
                  engemi
                  (I live in a treehouse, see?)
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  Hello, engemi !
                   
                  No, I have to dissapoint you. I am hungarian.
                   
                  Massimo Montanari, medievalist, differentiates between pig loving, and pig hating nations. Apparently, both hungarians and afrikaans love pigs ! :)
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: muskiet
                  Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 AM
                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Love in the Hole

                  Hallo Albert
                  This interests me greatly. What is your language?
                  Because mine is Afrikaans, and we have the exact same saying about pigs
                  Could it be that we two share the language of the oppressor?
                  Here on an Anthro Forum?
                  Could I be so lucky?
                  Please tell me it is true
                  engemi
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
                   
                  I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
                   
                  That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war. My front lines are elsewhere, though. Somehow, I believe in old fashioned karma, where the people who count are those who I really meet.
                   
                  Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.
                   
                  And by these debates, even well intentioned persons feed the aversion towards anthroposophy. Especially, because it is so an elusive subject.
                  I am sure, that by talking, trying to explain, to reason, little can be done. Who is not ready for it, will not understand it. In that case, these debates serev a negative purpose, feeding the astral and intellectual fog of war, and that serves the two notorious world judges very well.

                • Albert Sándor
                  The hungarian word for tree is FA. (plural; FÁK) Hungarian origin is much debated - linguists say our closer relatives are the finnish, the language shows
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 17, 2008
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                    The hungarian word for tree is FA. (plural; FÁK) Hungarian origin is much debated - linguists say our closer relatives are the finnish, the language shows strong turkish influences, the national self identity throughout history was traced back to Attila, The Hun.
                    I am a "székely" -sekler in english, (settlers), people destined to defend the eastern borders of historical Hungary. Seklers are seen by some as hungarized avars.
                    The Sun and Moon, the colors of black and red are our symbols up to this day.
                    Today, we seklers live in Romania, in a territory identified by us as Seklerland, in a number around four-hundred thousands. Seklers' mother tongue is hungarian, but they are romanian citizen.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: muskiet
                    Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:17 AM
                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Love in the Hole

                    Hi Albert
                    Right
                    But I wonder how an hungarian saying like that landed in the niddle of Afrikaans
                    The way of the word on earth facinate me
                    The various sounds that co-inside in languages far apart from another
                    and the similar ways people think in various languages - like here with us
                    and the ways in which objects are expressed.
                    Take TREE: it has a 'feeling' (for me much like the English people)
                    of breezes through leaves and shimering green, not the grounded part of the trunk
                    Then there is BAUM; a sturdy solid planted in the ground sort of sound
                    (for me a lot like the Germans)
                    The French hide the total meaning of what a tree looks (sound) like in ARBRE
                    by that I mean I don't find the way a tree looks in what arbre sounds like
                    We call it BOOM, the Dutch also call it BOOM, but pronounce it BOUM
                    The Sotho call it sehlare (the before l is prounounced g: seglar)
                    It sounds like the sotho people - colorful, arty
                    In Zulu it is called UMUTHI; again much more solid than the previous
                    and so on and so forth
                     
                    Oh well, just a little light diversion for the heaviness of Anthro stuff
                    Promise not to speak about trees again in this serious forum
                    love to all
                    engemi
                    (I live in a treehouse, see?)
                     
                     
                     
                     

                    Hello, engemi !
                     
                    No, I have to dissapoint you. I am hungarian.
                     
                    Massimo Montanari, medievalist, differentiates between pig loving, and pig hating nations. Apparently, both hungarians and afrikaans love pigs ! :)
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: muskiet
                    Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:05 AM
                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Love in the Hole

                    Hallo Albert
                    This interests me greatly. What is your language?
                    Because mine is Afrikaans, and we have the exact same saying about pigs
                    Could it be that we two share the language of the oppressor?
                    Here on an Anthro Forum?
                    Could I be so lucky?
                    Please tell me it is true
                    engemi
                     
                     
                     
                     

                    There is a saying in my language, what says: If you mingle with bran, the pigs will eat you.
                     
                    I am sure I'll not go to places like The Hole. Even the faint aura of the debates, made perceptible by the little quote you have given, makes my stomach turn.
                     
                    That's no training, that's fighting in the front line ... apparently, judging from the thick astral fog of war. My front lines are elsewhere, though. Somehow, I believe in old fashioned karma, where the people who count are those who I really meet.
                     
                    Internet debates are like fighting from trenches. People hide in their holes, and shoot out without aiming, hoping that somehow, miraculosly they will mark a hit, totally eliminating their opponents. It's just not going to happen.
                     
                    And by these debates, even well intentioned persons feed the aversion towards anthroposophy. Especially, because it is so an elusive subject.
                    I am sure, that by talking, trying to explain, to reason, little can be done. Who is not ready for it, will not understand it. In that case, these debates serev a negative purpose, feeding the astral and intellectual fog of war, and that serves the two notorious world judges very well.

                  • Frank Thomas Smith
                    ... stuff ... You re in the right place engemi- Didn t you ever hear of Treefold Man ? [http://www.acrossindonesia.com/Korowai%20treehouse.jpg] Anyway, you
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 17, 2008
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                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "muskiet" <muskiet@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Oh well, just a little light diversion for the heaviness of Anthro stuff
                      > Promise not to speak about trees again in this serious forum
                      > love to all
                      > engemi
                      > (I live in a treehouse, see?)
                      >

                      You're in the right place engemi- Didn't you ever hear of "Treefold Man"?

                      http://www.acrossindonesia.com/Korowai%20treehouse.jpg >

                      Anyway, you sure got a good view.

                      Frank

                       

                    • val2160
                      ... A scent of ripeness from over a wall. And come to leave the routine road And look for what has made me stall, There sure enough was an apple tree That had
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 17, 2008
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                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                        > You're in the right place engemi- Didn't you ever hear of "Treefold
                        > Man"?

                        A scent of ripeness from over a wall.
                        And come to leave the routine road
                        And look for what has made me stall,
                        There sure enough was an apple tree
                        That had eased itself of its summer load,
                        And of all but its trivial foliage free,
                        Now breathed as light as a lady's fan.
                        For there had been an apple fall
                        As complete as the apple had given man.
                        The ground was one circle of solid red.

                        May something go always unharvested!
                        May much stay out of our stated plan,
                        Apples or something forgotten and left,
                        So smelling their sweetness would be no theft.

                        Robert Frost

                      • muskiet
                        Oh Val, thanks for reminding me One seem to sometimes forget to read the older ones Those who could say our thoughs so well as a Robert Frost whose surname
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 18, 2008
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                          Oh Val, thanks for reminding me
                          One seem to sometimes forget to read the older ones
                          Those who could say our thoughs so well
                          as a Robert Frost whose surname surely
                          must have been the opposite?
                          Not "frost", maybe somthing to do with "dappled"?
                          engemi
                           
                           



                           

                          A scent of ripeness from over a wall.
                          And come to leave the routine road
                          And look for what has made me stall,
                          There sure enough was an apple tree
                          That had eased itself of its summer load,
                          And of all but its trivial foliage free,
                          Now breathed as light as a lady's fan.
                          For there had been an apple fall
                          As complete as the apple had given man.
                          The ground was one circle of solid red.

                          May something go always unharvested!
                          May much stay out of our stated plan,
                          Apples or something forgotten and left,
                          So smelling their sweetness would be no theft.

                          Robert Frost

                        • dottie zold
                          Hey Friends, I was just wondering if we really understand who was let free in the place of Jesus? This term is related to the Scythians by the way. Kinda
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 18, 2008
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                            Hey Friends, I was just wondering if we really understand who was let free in the place of Jesus? This term is related to the Scythians by the way. Kinda interesting.

                             

                            d


                          • elfuncle
                            ... free in the place of Jesus? Anthony Quinn! ... A Luciferian rebel & son of a gun: And there was
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 18, 2008
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                              Dottie:

                              >Hey Friends, I was just wondering if we really understand who was let free in the place of Jesus?

                              Anthony Quinn! 

                              >This term is related to the Scythians by the way. Kinda interesting.

                              A Luciferian rebel & son of a gun:

                              "And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection."
                              (-- Mark 15:7)

                              Tarjei
                            • dottie zold
                              Hey Friends, I just received the latest book by Sergei Prokofieff entitled Relating to Rudolf Steiner ~ and The Mystery of the Laying of the Foundation
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 19, 2008
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                                Hey Friends,

                                 

                                I just received the latest book by Sergei Prokofieff entitled ' 'Relating to Rudolf Steiner ~ and The Mystery of the Laying of the Foundation Stone', brought forth by Temple Lodge. It is so funny it feels as if he has been listening in on the debates that have taken place on this list over the course of the last three years or so. Very very funny.

                                 

                                I realized after contemplating on his work that we/I know him. He is also a student of Rudolf Steiner, and a close friend of ours. I imagine this is where all the criticism comes from regarding the others who do not hold Rudolf Steiner as their ultimate teacher in the sense that many/most of us do. I realized he is sent to us by Michael. He is the gift at this present time to help put into the collective the importance of what took place at the Christmas Foundation Meeting of 1923 and how we can rightly come to understand the deed wrought for all of mankind during this Michaelic Time.

                                 

                                I think those who keep trying to tear Rudolf Steiner down to their own size might try this book on for at least some insight as to some pretty clear concise understandings as to how this comes about and what this means for the Ego. I say tear down as its just so petty. I don't have time to offer any quotes this morning but I will later on.

                                 

                                All good things,

                                Dottie

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 


                              • write3chairs
                                ... Hi, Dottie! It is good to hear from you. I have been away from the group for a time and thought it best to come back around. Will you please explain what
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 19, 2008
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                                  > Hey Friends,
                                  > I just received the latest book by Sergei Prokofieff entitled '
                                  > 'Relating to Rudolf Steiner ~ and The Mystery of the Laying of
                                  > the Foundation Stone', brought forth by Temple Lodge. It is so
                                  > funny it feels as if he has been listening in on the debates that
                                  > have taken place on this list over the course of the last three
                                  > years or so. Very very funny.
                                  > I realized after contemplating on his work that we/I know him.
                                  > He is also a student of Rudolf Steiner, and a close friend of ours.
                                  > I imagine this is where all the criticism comes from regarding
                                  > the others who do not hold Rudolf Steiner as their ultimate
                                  > teacher in the sense that many/most of us do. I realized he is
                                  > sent to us by Michael. He is the gift at this present time to
                                  > help put into the collective the importance of what took place at
                                  > the Christmas Foundation Meeting of 1923 and how we can rightly
                                  > come to understand the deed wrought for all of mankind during
                                  > this Michaelic Time.



                                  Hi, Dottie! It is good to hear from you. I have been away from
                                  the group for a time and thought it best to come back around.
                                  Will you please explain what took place at that meeting, or at
                                  least point somewhere on the Internet to a site where it is documented?
                                  Hope you are well today. Is good to hear your voice again. :)

                                  Love,
                                  Jennifer



                                  > I think those who keep trying to tear Rudolf Steiner down to
                                  > their own size might try this book on for at least some insight....
                                • write3chairs
                                  ... Nice story, Tarjei. I ve been reading a book lately called SHAM: How the Self-Help Movement Made America Helpless
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 19, 2008
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                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" wrote:

                                    > There's this wonderful and moving Norwegian fairy tale
                                    > about that kiddie troll -- he was blind like most of them
                                    > deep inside the mountain, but his father had one eye,
                                    > and he had been promised that he could borrow his
                                    > old man's eye on his 500th birthday and go for a stroll.
                                    > So his five hundredth birthday came along, and his father
                                    > lent him his eye so he could go out after sundown, but
                                    > he had to promise to return before sunrise, because
                                    > if daylight hit him, he would melt into a lake.
                                    >
                                    > The kiddie troll promised, and he went outside and
                                    > looked around with his borrowed eye, at the starry sky,
                                    > all the houses, the railway and so on, and he was so
                                    > fascinated that he strolled around all night long and
                                    > quite forgot that the sun would rise until it was too late:
                                    > As soon as he remembered that, the sun came up
                                    > on the horizon and hit him with an early morning ray,
                                    > and the sweet kiddie-troll immediately melted into a lake.
                                    >
                                    > It was a nice lake in Telemark, and when I was a kid,
                                    > my grandfather owned that property, the whole forest
                                    > around it, and he had bred some freshwater fish in it,
                                    > and we used to go fishing together, almost until I was
                                    > ten years old, when my grandfather passed away.
                                    > We also used to swim in the lake, and in winter,
                                    > we ice skated on it. So that little troll became a martyr,
                                    > in a sense, for our benefit.

                                    Nice story, Tarjei. I've been reading a book lately called
                                    SHAM:  How the Self-Help Movement Made America Helpless ,
                                    by Steve Salerno. On its cover is an image of a broken egg
                                    patched together with two bandages criss-crossed like an X
                                    across the break. (If you click on that link above, you'll see it.)
                                    It's a fascinating study, full of juicy tidbits about people the
                                    author views as SHAM artists, and yet all the while I keep
                                    looking at him and thinking about that broken egg and what
                                    it might mean. All of this is metaphor, you know, just symbolism.
                                    And yet it does mean something. The martyr troll who sacrificed
                                    his life to give you and your grandather some pleasant times
                                    and nice memories on a lake etched upon your memory of
                                    days gone by. The broken and bandaged egg another guy uses
                                    to show how he feels and thinks about what he believes to be
                                    greed run rampant. And yet I cannot help but wonder about
                                    his own book, how it is any different from the books of those
                                    people he criticizes within its covers. I found the book on a
                                    bargain table at a community college bookstore, and had it not
                                    been there for sale, marked down to maybe one-fourth of its
                                    retail price, I probably never would have bought it. How much
                                    money will he make on a book which criticizes others of its own
                                    category, for after all he has written a "self-help" book. (How to
                                    wean oneself off of self-help books.) Will he need to write another
                                    one to clarify points he failed to make? If so, that will especially
                                    put him into the same category of the ones he writes about with
                                    such derision. And again, the image of the broken, bandaged egg.
                                    I thought eggshells were to be broken. Why would he want to hold
                                    a broken egg together? I'd rather add it to the batter and make cake.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Jennifer

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