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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Morality

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  • dottie zold
    The name of the book is The Spiritual Foundation of Morality ~ Francis of Assis and the Christ Impulse. I want to say we can have no suffering for suffering
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 5, 2008
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      The name of the book is The Spiritual Foundation of Morality ~ Francis of Assis and the Christ Impulse.
       
      I want to say we can have no suffering for suffering sake. This has just got to change.
       
      All good things,
      Dottie


      You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
    • Albert Sándor
      I have been put my former actions into a painful situation where I cannot act in any way, but by hurting others. No possibility of external solution, but an
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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        I have been put my former actions into a painful situation where I cannot act in any way, but by hurting others. No possibility of external solution, but an inner one.
        I say staying in it is not suffering for suffering's sake, but for other's and my own sake, as I have realized the two are in fact, the same. I can only marvel at the beauty of the plan concieved to corner me. :)
         
        What I learnt that there is nothing on earth, or in heavens what would make causing suffering justifyable. Not even for their own good. It is not for us to decide.
        Seven years ago, I felt this, but I did not have the strenght and understanding to act accordingly.
         
        Thank you for the title given. I really need to expand my library. What I have read from RS: Apocalypse of John, The occult science, Reincarnation and karma, Children of Lucifer and Brothers of Christ, and ... I'll have to check. Oh, I am using The guide to meditation. More and more I learn form it, and feel how it is alive.
        The philosophy of Freedom ... this is a hard nut to crack, I never really got through the first pages, God know I tried. Probably there is a reason for this, too. I am mostly emotional and intuitive, still got to work on reason and intellect. I also read the Bible on a regular bases - not as part as my religious heritage, becuase that is non-existant. In fact, I became a christian on the impulse of The Apocalypse of John. (I used to be an atheist-materialist more than a decade ago)
         
        I like what you say about dogma and ideology. These two years I have been reading a lot, and one thing I learnt that I am quite influencable. I do not trust the words now, but the norishment to my soul they might contain.
         
        I will be thankful for any suggestions what to read, and where to get the books.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:26 AM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Morality

        The name of the book is The Spiritual Foundation of Morality ~ Francis of Assis and the Christ Impulse.
         
        I want to say we can have no suffering for suffering sake. This has just got to change.
         
        All good things,
        Dottie


        You rock. That's why Blockbuster' s offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

      • robin wolfe
        greetings, AS of 4 years ago I experienced the death of life as I knew it because of a moral choice I made. In times of distress like this one can learn who we
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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          greetings,

          AS of 4 years ago I experienced the death of life as I knew it because of a moral choice I made. In times of distress like this one can learn who we really define ourselves and who really believe in.

          The difficulty has made me stronger and weaker to some views. But my ultimate goal, that of reunion with the divine has become more clear.

          Steiner from what I understand says when we incarnate it is with the help of the hierarchies and our life is chosen for the best way to develop our spiritual nature.
          When I ran into Steiner and anthroposophy 20 years ago I clearly needed some answers then as to why things happen.

          Realizing that I am the orchestrator of my own destiny has a lot of responsibility , but also brings clarity  to my mind as to why things really do happen.

          Many years go before I even went to college I ran across this song by Ralph Carmichael Master Designer.
          The words include:
          "Master Designer whoever you are all of this beauty both near and far can't just have happened the odds are to great, there must be a plan we're not left to fate"

          I sing this to myself and few others when things are rock bottom tough, you can't imagine how rock bottom, and thanks to my ever present Guardian Angel who seems to be having a 24\7 job I am ok.

          If you would like to chat offline I would be happy to do so.

          Blessings,
          .



          Robin


          You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

        • dottie zold
          Hey Sandor, My first book was Archangel Michael His Mission and Ours. It took me almost three years to get through it. All the while I was thinking, when I
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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            Hey Sandor,
             
            My first book was Archangel Michael His Mission and Ours. It took me almost three years to get through it. All the while I was thinking, when I picked it up again, I was thinking 'why am I still reading this book!!!! I was a Harlequin Romance girl, teen books, and if the girl had sex before she was married I put the book down! It is so funny. (now out of knowing a past biography I understand why the Archangel Michael book was my first. I mean I would never ever had read a book like that, ever. And somehow I kept reading it.
             
            My second book was How To Know Higher Worlds. And I am a How To Know Higher Worlds girl. That is my book. And I too could not for the life of me get past the first few pages of The Philosophy of Freedom. Not for my life. But a curious thing it is between these two books. It seems to me that once one can bring oneself in line with the exercises of the How To Know Higher Worlds book, works on the heart chakra mostly I think, developing a thinking within the heart, it leads to the Philosophy of Freedom book. It took many years so each time I would pick up  that book it would not be had  by me. I had to put it down. But now, twelve years or thirteen years later, I can now read that book. And what I have found is that the inner structure of How To Know Higher Worlds is the Philosophy of Freedom. And the inner structure of the Philosophy of Freedom is How To Know Higher Worlds. That is what I have found. So, once we have rightly adjusted our soul, our thinking, our feeling and our willing, we can then meet the Philosophy of Freedom and understand it in a way that directly meets the consciousness soul in the Thinking Heart.
             
            It is my experience over the years of interelating with others, that some are more likely to think only the Philosophy of Freedom is the right way at first. But that is not true. For  the Magi and the Shepherd would need two different books to meet them. And that is the beauty of each. Adriana Koulias shares that the Magi are working towards being their Shepherds and the Shephereds are working towards being their Magis:) and so each book needs the other.
             
            But truly life is the greatest teacher along with these books. Life in all its questions, and all its trials and tribulations is what makes us till this soil of the soul. For without other human beings to teach us, not through their words of enlightment, rather through our interactions and our reactions, and our struggles to know ourselves through these moments, we can dig down deep, escavate and discover what really is going on. What kernel is trying to be turned over. What behaviour is trying to be transformed. MAN KNOW THYSELF has got to be the most important maxim to  hold over ones self all along the way. Knowing of course that Christ walks with us and Grace will find us when we truly truly want to change ourselves towards being the best human being we can.
             
            So no sweating over the Philosophy of Freedom. Working the How To Know Higher Worlds book might meet you perfectly for years. And then one day you will pick up the Philosophy of Freedom book and realize your work in How To Know Higher Worlds led you directly to pierce through to the true title of that book (POF) Intuitive Thinking on the Spiritual Path.
             
            All good good things to Romania,
            Dottie

            Albert Sándor <montek@...> wrote:
            I have been put my former actions into a painful situation where I cannot act in any way, but by hurting others. No possibility of external solution, but an inner one.
            I say staying in it is not suffering for suffering's sake, but for other's and my own sake, as I have realized the two are in fact, the same. I can only marvel at the beauty of the plan concieved to corner me. :)
             
            What I learnt that there is nothing on earth, or in heavens what would make causing suffering justifyable. Not even for their own good. It is not for us to decide.
            Seven years ago, I felt this, but I did not have the strenght and understanding to act accordingly.
             
            Thank you for the title given. I really need to expand my library. What I have read from RS: Apocalypse of John, The occult science, Reincarnation and karma, Children of Lucifer and Brothers of Christ, and ... I'll have to check. Oh, I am using The guide to meditation. More and more I learn form it, and feel how it is alive.
            The philosophy of Freedom ... this is a hard nut to crack, I never really got through the first pages, God know I tried. Probably there is a reason for this, too. I am mostly emotional and intuitive, still got to work on reason and intellect. I also read the Bible on a regular bases - not as part as my religious heritage, becuase that is non-existant. In fact, I became a christian on the impulse of The Apocalypse of John. (I used to be an atheist-materialist more than a decade ago)
             
            I like what you say about dogma and ideology. These two years I have been reading a lot, and one thing I learnt that I am quite influencable. I do not trust the words now, but the norishment to my soul they might contain.
             
            I will be thankful for any suggestions what to read, and where to get the books.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:26 AM
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Morality

            The name of the book is The Spiritual Foundation of Morality ~ Francis of Assis and the Christ Impulse.
             
            I want to say we can have no suffering for suffering sake. This has just got to change.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie

            You rock. That's why Blockbuster' s offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.


            You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

          • dottie zold
            Dottie wrote: But, yeah, Sandor, crisis is good if we can keep meeting the challenge each day. We must make a clear choice and move in it confidantly. But
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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              Dottie wrote:
              'But, yeah, Sandor, crisis is good if we can keep meeting the challenge each day. We must make a clear choice and move in it confidantly. But that must also be really vetted and worked through. Developing clear thinking free of antipathies and sympathies helps us to make a strong move in the moment with clear thinking. If we have not developed this clear thinking then it might take a little longer. But we must have courage and shake in our boots as we make these right moves. But move in them we must. These are life tranformative moments that in order to not keep repeating over and over we must take ourselves in hand.'
               
              Hey Sandor and Friends,
               
              I want to share that we must be awake to what part of us hears a certain thing. What part of us hears this above? Or anything really. We tend to look at it and hear it in how it applies to either our sympathy or our antipathy. And the point is to hear it objectively. Because ultimately we must know that in everyone we meet God is there. Christ is there. We are all born into Christ in this earthly world. All of us. And so in every karmic meeting and situations that arise, we must know that whoever is standing before us is helping us to move our heart to the fifth organ, the other 20 degrees. But we must meet it lawfully. But maybe we don't know how to meet it lawfully or even what that means. But as we work on the Eight Fold Path we can become awake to our likes and our dislikes. And this helps because we must move past them. And when we move past them we find ourselves meeting the Being of Morality. Or maybe it is that it wakes up in us. I felt something wake up in me. And because I was thinking of it I could note the waking up and then the forming of this sheath within me, th is missing piece, this piece that had been covered over by my own likes and dislikes of what is right and wrong.
               
              Now I have been working on this for years, ever since a child, I can know I have been trying to uncover this part of myself. I always had questions of 'is this right or wrong'. Always had questions of how I was thinking about others compared to what I thought was right or wrong. And always giving the benefit of the doubt to others as I always percieved the Christ in others. But the struggle of what is right and wrong is a human one. The being of Morality is something that is born from this struggle. And it is lawful. And then the idea comes that I must consider what the gift is that these people are offering me and what can I offer in return.
               
              In human terms, if you are the one being wronged, you would be a fool to even consider the other person in this manner. A born again might say 'oh  yes you must turn the other cheek' etc. but I experience that mostly without consciousness, and only doing it because it was read. 'Put a smile on your face' and forgive them. Well you can't do that properly if you haven't figured out what it is that you don't like about that and what it is that is trying to speak to you from the other. If you just 'forgive' without knowing what you are thinking of forgiving you are unconscious. If you only think of 'I am forgiving them for hurting me' and you haven't figured out what this means to you, what they might be trying to say to you, other than experiencing the hurt, then it is suffering for suffering sake. We must become conscious that what is happening is our own cocreating.
               
              Our own cocreating of the sucky situations in our life is a really big big deal. We, when we are conscious, have the responsibility to heal the other. This is where the 'Brother what ails thee' comes in. This is where the 'Am I my brother's keeper' comes in. Yes we are our brothers keeper because we helped to create this karma and whatever has just occurred that sucks. This is not martyrdom, no, this is consciously being accountable to how you helped this situation to come about. Once we can acknowledge that and then also think, CONTEMPLATE, what our next move might be, what the right answer to this riddle is, what we have learned about ourselves, we will then turn around and heal our karma in a lawful way. And not only that but the possibility exists that we will then also participate in the healing of the other. But not because I am thinking 'oh I am going to heal that other person because they need it', no, rather w are going to heal them out of our ability to meet our karma lawfully.
               
              All good things,
              Dottie


              You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
            • robin wolfe
              Dear Dottie, Many years ago I read how to Know Higher Worlds and it changed my perception of the world. The exercises do indeed work. I experienced it then and
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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                Dear Dottie,


                Many years ago I read how to Know Higher Worlds and it changed my perception of the world. The exercises do indeed work. I experienced it then and still to this day experience a level of spiritual perception that I am indebted to Rudolf Steiner for showing me how to accomplish.


                How ever the Philosophy of Freedom stills eludes me.

                I am currently working through some of those exercises again, in How to Know Higher Worlds, and  would appreciate any advice you have regarding this.

                Blessings,

                Robin





                Robin


                You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
              • Mike Helsher
                Hi Albert, I ve been studying Rudolph Steiner on and off for about ten years now. When I found out that the Philosophy of Freedom was the crown jewel, so to
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
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                  Hi Albert,

                  I've been studying Rudolph Steiner on and off for about ten years now. When I found out that the Philosophy of Freedom was the crown jewel, so to speak, I dived into it. And I also made sure that everyone in our little Waldorf community knew that I was reading it. Most people would give me funny looks and tell me not to read "that one". Little me, being a needy attention getter and reveling in my superior understanding of RS's most important book, got a bang out of the whole thing. Little did "I" understand then about the insidiousness and self-sabotage of the  self made "little me" and it's insane drive for more to identify with in the material realm: "Me and my story". Any idea past or future and any way to make me right and others wrong was paramount.

                  I can see the same kind of egoic insanity in the macro as well. I seem to remember RS defining evil as being created by beings that were trying to evolve of their own accord (someone correct me if I got this wrong). In other words, the idea of right here right now is not ok. And the collective egoic insanity (funded by lodges in league with Ari and Luci amongst others in pure anthro terms) is prone to insidiousness and sabotage as well, perhaps culminating in recent years with 911. Tarjei has made reference to Jens Bjorneboe's suicide as being driven by such powers. The list goes on and on.

                  What I've learned thus far is that the POF was designed to bring the intellect to it's knees. I've found for myself that the best way to read it is to be in the "exceptional state" of observing. In this state, concrete concepts derived form a few sentences evaporate quickly, and I find that a page or two will come together in a flash of intuitive understanding. Plugging into that kind of state has transformational qualities beyond words. Much like the two seed meditation in HKHW.

                  I think it is possible for some to get lost in the conceptualized understanding of "higher worlds". Much like many did and do with all the new agey frothing at the mouth that I've read about and followed along with over the years. The irony and beauty of the POF however, is that it is very hard, for most people, to form any concrete conceptualized understanding from it, while at the same time it stretches our intellectual capacities to their limits. What we end up with is very similar to, "In the beginning was the word".

                  No doubt in my heart that RS knew deeply the danger of thinking without awareness on an individual and collective level. In his day the onslaught of this kind of frozen dead thinking was reaching critical mass and so began the insanity of WW1 and the 200+ million humans killed by other humans since.

                  To my understanding, history has not shown us a more prolific intellectual so deeply committed to the service of humanity from a spiritual perspective. "60 volumes". And just like there was no other that could fill Abe Lincolns shoes at that precise point in history, there was Rudolph Steiner providing perspective at a time when the well of spirit was running as dry as a Peter Staudenmiaer post on the WC list.

                  RS was who he was, where he was and when he was. I think it important for us, in our study of his work, not to forget who we are (our perhaps to find out who we are) where we are, and when we are.

                  Something wonderful and powerful is happening all around the world now. We had to wait the "hundred years" that RS mentions on the home page of this list, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/ It might not be conceptualized as "Anthroposophy" but it certainly is in tune, IMO, to the idea of "Thinking with the power of Love in spiritual form".

                  My two and a half cents

                  Mike






                  Albert Sándor <montek@...> wrote:
                  I have been put my former actions into a painful situation where I cannot act in any way, but by hurting others. No possibility of external solution, but an inner one.
                  I say staying in it is not suffering for suffering's sake, but for other's and my own sake, as I have realized the two are in fact, the same. I can only marvel at the beauty of the plan concieved to corner me. :)
                   
                  What I learnt that there is nothing on earth, or in heavens what would make causing suffering justifyable. Not even for their own good. It is not for us to decide.
                  Seven years ago, I felt this, but I did not have the strenght and understanding to act accordingly.
                   
                  Thank you for the title given. I really need to expand my library. What I have read from RS: Apocalypse of John, The occult science, Reincarnation and karma, Children of Lucifer and Brothers of Christ, and ... I'll have to check. Oh, I am using The guide to meditation. More and more I learn form it, and feel how it is alive.
                  The philosophy of Freedom ... this is a hard nut to crack, I never really got through the first pages, God know I tried. Probably there is a reason for this, too. I am mostly emotional and intuitive, still got to work on reason and intellect. I also read the Bible on a regular bases - not as part as my religious heritage, becuase that is non-existant. In fact, I became a christian on the impulse of The Apocalypse of John. (I used to be an atheist-materialist more than a decade ago)
                   
                  I like what you say about dogma and ideology. These two years I have been reading a lot, and one thing I learnt that I am quite influencable. I do not trust the words now, but the norishment to my soul they might contain.
                   
                  I will be thankful for any suggestions what to read, and where to get the books.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Morality

                  The name of the book is The Spiritual Foundation of Morality ~ Francis of Assis and the Christ Impulse.
                   
                  I want to say we can have no suffering for suffering sake. This has just got to change.
                   
                  All good things,
                  Dottie

                  You rock. That's why Blockbuster' s offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.



                  Mike Helsher
                  http://www.michaelhelsher.lifesuccessconsultants.com/
                  http://www.thewealthguardian.com/


                  You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

                • Mike Helsher
                  Mike Helsher wrote: Hi Albert, ... yup, and I still can t spell his name right.....:) Mike Helsher
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
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                    Mike Helsher <mhelsher@...> wrote:
                    Hi Albert,

                    >I've been studying Rudolph Steiner on and off for about ten years now.
                     yup, and I still can't spell his name right.....:)




                    Mike Helsher
                    http://www.michaelhelsher.lifesuccessconsultants.com/
                    http://www.thewealthguardian.com/


                    You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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