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R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on racial evolution/Ahasver

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  • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
    ... Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on racial evolution/Ahasver ... Excuse me , if I jump in Raymond, but the Chinese must feel that if his
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 26, 2004
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      ----- Original Message -----
      : Friday, March 26, 2004 11:43 AM
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on racial evolution/Ahasver


      > Gidday again Bradford,
      >
      > As always a fine reply of yours to Peter's posts evidencing racism
      > in his `Steiner on racial evolution' post.
      >
      > But have you considered how, for example, a Chinese must feel when
      > reading that his race is decadent?
      >

      Excuse me , if I jump in Raymond, but the Chinese must feel that if "his
      race" ( an outer "envelopment") is on the way of decadence, he Himself,the
      "I AM" kernel, is ever and ever of the way of become free from "nama kè
      rupa". In other words: no racial or national feature can overwhelm the
      Spiritual core of aech human being. The actual difficulty is to see in
      clarity how are able to mix and mould in a single personality those diffrent
      features.
      About China: think also on the occult fact that many today's chinese
      personalities are babies killed before their births (abortion) in different
      "advanced" cultures looking for a "road for the Earth".
      excuse me again,buddy.

      Andrea


      > See ya, Raymon
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • raymon_ford
      ... if his ... Himself,the ... from nama kè ... Gidday Andrea, Jump in by all means. You raised an interesting point at the end of your post. Your first
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 27, 2004
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "VALENTINA BRUNETTI"
        <okcgbr@t...> wrote:

        > Excuse me , if I jump in Raymond, but the Chinese must feel that
        if "his
        > race" ( an outer "envelopment") is on the way of decadence, he
        Himself,the
        > "I AM" kernel, is ever and ever of the way of become free
        from "nama kè
        > rupa"...

        Gidday Andrea,

        Jump in by all means. You raised an interesting point at the end of
        your post.

        Your first point may well be so. It seems fine to pronounce such
        truths. But these people are but human, and distressing them by
        announcing that they are decadent, and that we are not, is hardly a
        practical means of convincing them of the truth of this philosophy.
        They will simply see it as a confirmation of the attitudes that led
        to the West's abuses against them when they were weak. Having
        suffered these abuses, you see, makes it difficult for them to
        accept the proposition that the perpetrators are in any
        way `advanced' examples of humanity.

        > About China: think also on the occult fact that many today's
        chinese
        > personalities are babies killed before their births (abortion) in
        different
        > "advanced" cultures looking for a "road for the Earth".

        Excellent point. I had not thought of this.

        You are suggesting that some who properly should have incarnated in
        the `advanced' cultures (full marks for your putting `advanced' in
        quotations) finish up instead in China. This reminds me of one of
        Steiner's statements, that many in the 18th century who were
        destined to incarnate in China actually finished up in Europe due to
        Europe's opium-related ravaging of so many Chinese physical bodies.
        (A grudge is still held against the West for this, by the way.)
        Perhaps, ironically, some of these decadent souls were
        anthroposophists in Steiner's audience as he held forth with the
        lecture Peter quoted.

        If what you say is true, it is not consistent with Steiner's
        statement, jumbled as the latter is. Though – haha – I am depending
        on what I assume is Peter's accurate translation here. Steiner made
        a sweeping statement concerning the Chinese – which is largely why
        it is so damaging; he could easily have qualified it – whereas your
        point allows that for all we know humans everywhere constitute a
        mixture of whatever proportion.

        You might consider that the reverse of what you say may also be so –
        ie the population policy carried out in China means that many who
        were destined to incarnate there, finish up instead in Europe. And
        that perhaps you are one such, haha. Or me for that matter I
        suppose. My posts surely appear decadent to some…

        See ya, Raymon
      • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
        ... ( an outer envelopment ) is on the way of decadence, he Himself,the ... from nama kè ... Gidday Andrea, Jump in by all means. You raised an
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 28, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----

          " ( an outer "envelopment") is on the way of decadence, he
          Himself,the
          > "I AM" kernel, is ever and ever of the way of become free
          from "nama kè
          > rupa"...

          Gidday Andrea,

          Jump in by all means. You raised an interesting point at the end of
          your post.

          Your first point may well be so. It seems fine to pronounce such
          truths. But these people are but human, and distressing them by
          announcing that they are decadent, and that we are not, is hardly a
          practical means


          Andrea adds

          To be "practical" : if those people are "anthroguys" they have the means to
          come to terms with the matter.
          If they are not (as the 99,99% of them) they have got their another "sum of
          beliefs" to experience and to live with.
          Taoism,Confucianism,Communism,"Struggle for Money" , "Sex Drugs & RR and so
          on) ,
          Doesn't it ? (Cynical but....)



          the West's abuses against them when they were weak. Having
          > About China: think also on the occult fact that many today's
          chinese
          > personalities are babies killed before their births (abortion) in
          different
          > "advanced" cultures looking for a "road for the Earth".

          Excellent point. I had not thought of this.

          You are suggesting that some who properly should have incarnated in
          the `advanced' cultures (full marks for your putting `advanced' in
          quotations) finish up instead in China. This reminds me of one of
          Steiner's statements, that many in the 18th century who were
          destined to incarnate in China actually finished up in Europe due to
          Europe's opium-related ravaging of so many Chinese physical bodies.
          (A grudge is still held against the West for this, by the way.)
          Perhaps, ironically, some of these decadent souls were
          anthroposophists in Steiner's audience as he held forth with the
          lecture Peter quoted.

          If what you say is true, it is not consistent with Steiner's
          statement, jumbled as the latter is. Though - haha - I am depending
          on what I assume is Peter's accurate translation here. Steiner made
          a sweeping statement concerning the Chinese - which is largely why
          it is so damaging; he could easily have qualified it - whereas your
          point allows that for all we know humans everywhere constitute a
          mixture of whatever proportion.

          You might consider that the reverse of what you say may also be so -
          ie the population policy carried out in China means that many who
          were destined to incarnate there, finish up instead in Europe. And
          that perhaps you are one such, haha. Or me for that matter I
          suppose. My posts surely appear decadent to some.


          Andrea adds:
          Well I see it in the following way. We've got from RS and others general
          point of views but we have also to look. if we are able, at the fast, fast
          Mankind's Evolution and most of all inside its changes
          . (For instance : asked about the possibillity that the Russian folk Soul
          could have no more able to have the chance of fulfill his task towards the
          Sixth Epoch Age RS answered " well, in this case, the task will be on the
          shoulders of Brasilian people(!!).....")
          Moreover: we have also to look at the single issues , I mean facts about
          the spiritual events concerning single personalities that we know, in order
          to gain a standpoint able to actually understand "what is actually
          happening here ?".

          A.




          See ya, Raymon







          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • raymon_ford
          ... wrote: ... Well I see it in the following way. We ve got from RS and others general ... Gidday Andrea, Thanks for your helpful post. On
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 1, 2004
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            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "VALENTINA BRUNETTI"
            <okcgbr@t...> wrote:

            ... Well I see it in the following way. We've got from RS and
            others general
            > point of views but we have also to look....

            Gidday Andrea,

            Thanks for your helpful post.

            On another subject perhaps you can be of help too. In 1997 in Italy
            there was an attempted start of a periodical to do with Goethean
            Science: 'IL DIVANO MORFOLOGICO'; some of those involved were Sandro
            Curti, Emilio Ferrario, Daniele Nani, Silvia Nicolato. It seemed
            that it was to be conducted as a debate within the academic
            mainstream. Can you tell me anything about what happened here? Are
            you familiar with any of these people?

            See ya, Raymon
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