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bondarev

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  • SCos
    i have been reading the chapters from bondarev s book on robert s website and i just read the omitted excerpts about the jewish culture and spiritual mission.
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1, 2008
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      i have been reading the chapters from bondarev's book on robert's website and i just read the omitted excerpts about the jewish culture and spiritual mission. what disturbs me most is that the anthropops and their primarily germanic center are the first to call him racist, but, when bondarev says absolutely horrible things about the jesuits, not a word sounds from this germanic /lutheran center.
       
      its  like dottie sounding off against the masons. there is not an anthropop alive on this planet that knows even the first thing about the jesuits and their mission, but the anthropos are the first to comdem them, w/o a shred of evidence or personal knowledge. talk about conspiracy theories!!!!
      stephen
    • dottie zold
      Your bias is showing Stephen. Nice try though. Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can. All good
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1, 2008
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        Your bias is showing Stephen. Nice try though. Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can.
         
        All good things,
        Dottie
         
        p.s. I am not going off on the Masons. I love the Mason impulse, this is a Catholic thing that is the issue and I surmise you know that. But nice try again.
         


        SCos <vtsophia@...> wrote:
        i have been reading the chapters from bondarev's book on robert's website and i just read the omitted excerpts about the jewish culture and spiritual mission. what disturbs me most is that the anthropops and their primarily germanic center are the first to call him racist, but, when bondarev says absolutely horrible things about the jesuits, not a word sounds from this germanic /lutheran center.
         
        its  like dottie sounding off against the masons. there is not an anthropop alive on this planet that knows even the first thing about the jesuits and their mission, but the anthropos are the first to comdem them, w/o a shred of evidence or personal knowledge. talk about conspiracy theories!!!!
        stephen


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      • SCos
        Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can. well, dottie, i think this has been done rather
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 1, 2008
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          '"Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can."
           
          well, dottie, i think this has been done rather successfully. remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well researched and well reasoned article on RS's comments about the jesuit's spiritual exercises and their whole "will to power" thing. i don't want to use the wrong, because RS was perfect in everything, but i can say she proved rather convincingly to me that his comments about the jesuits were mis-placed. i don't know if her article is still archived somewhere on the net.
          stephen   
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:35 AM
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] bondarev

          Your bias is showing Stephen. Nice try though. Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can.
           
          All good things,
          Dottie
           
          p.s. I am not going off on the Masons. I love the Mason impulse, this is a Catholic thing that is the issue and I surmise you know that. But nice try again.
           


          SCos <vtsophia@...> wrote:
          i have been reading the chapters from bondarev's book on robert's website and i just read the omitted excerpts about the jewish culture and spiritual mission. what disturbs me most is that the anthropops and their primarily germanic center are the first to call him racist, but, when bondarev says absolutely horrible things about the jesuits, not a word sounds from this germanic /lutheran center.
           
          its  like dottie sounding off against the masons. there is not an anthropop alive on this planet that knows even the first thing about the jesuits and their mission, but the anthropos are the first to comdem them, w/o a shred of evidence or personal knowledge. talk about conspiracy theories!!!!
          stephen


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        • dottie zold
          Hi Stephen, I would have to say that I was a newbie when I came into contact with Catherine. I had then and do now a great respect for her. I do find that I
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 3, 2008
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            Hi Stephen,
             
            I would have to say that I was a newbie when I came into contact with Catherine. I had then and do now a great respect for her. I do find that I disagree with her in regards to a paper she wrote regarding a Ms. Sprengel. I would have to read the paper you are speaking of in order to give my thoughts to it.
             
            I want to say that in my experience of this Jesuit stream I find Steiner to be right in regards to the exercises. However with that said, if they are approached in a new way with higher thinking and feeling, not the exercises but the ability to sense into a picture imagination without making it totally physical, can serve. I have seen this however it takes a really dedicated objective person who has found their way into the spiritual process before taking on these exercises. With that said I also trust the thinking of Catherine and her path so I would think that she would be one that would be able to move and change as things become clearer to her as we all are students obviously.
             
            I think it is a very very sticky sticky fine line and one that I have seen most people fall into and end up back in the old mysteries.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie

            SCos <vtsophia@...> wrote:
            '"Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can."
             
            well, dottie, i think this has been done rather successfully. remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well researched and well reasoned article on RS's comments about the jesuit's spiritual exercises and their whole "will to power" thing. i don't want to use the wrong, because RS was perfect in everything, but i can say she proved rather convincingly to me that his comments about the jesuits were mis-placed. i don't know if her article is still archived somewhere on the net.
            stephen   
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:35 AM
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] bondarev

            Your bias is showing Stephen. Nice try though. Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at anyone, discredit him first if you can.
             
            All good things,
            Dottie
             
            p.s. I am not going off on the Masons. I love the Mason impulse, this is a Catholic thing that is the issue and I surmise you know that. But nice try again.
             


            SCos <vtsophia@...> wrote:
            i have been reading the chapters from bondarev's book on robert's website and i just read the omitted excerpts about the jewish culture and spiritual mission. what disturbs me most is that the anthropops and their primarily germanic center are the first to call him racist, but, when bondarev says absolutely horrible things about the jesuits, not a word sounds from this germanic /lutheran center.
             
            its  like dottie sounding off against the masons. there is not an anthropop alive on this planet that knows even the first thing about the jesuits and their mission, but the anthropos are the first to comdem them, w/o a shred of evidence or personal knowledge. talk about conspiracy theories!!!!
            stephen


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            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

          • elfuncle
            ... anyone, discredit him first if you can. ... remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well researched and well reasoned article on RS s
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 4, 2008
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              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "SCos" <vtsophia@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > '"Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at
              anyone, discredit him first if you can."
              >
              > well, dottie, i think this has been done rather successfully.
              remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well
              researched and well reasoned article on RS's comments about the
              jesuit's spiritual exercises and their whole "will to power" thing. i
              don't want to use the wrong, because RS was perfect in everything, but
              i can say she proved rather convincingly to me that his comments about
              the jesuits were mis-placed. i don't know if her article is still
              archived somewhere on the net.
              > stephen

              During the first days of this forum, in November 2003, Richard Distasi
              and I discussed the lecture cycle "The Book of Revelation and the Work
              of the Priest" (Vorträge und Kurse über christlich-religiöses Wiurken,
              V. Apokalypse und Priesterwirken, GA 346). I believe it was the very
              last cycle Rudolf Steiner was able to give before his illness put an
              end to his lecturing activities.

              Some of the content became especially interesting in the light of
              9/11, particularly the infuence of Sorath, the Sun Demon, and the
              mystical number 666 in the Apocalypse. Beginning in the year 666,
              Sorath began his strikes every 666 years, with considerable increasing
              strength each time. So Sorath's second strike was in 1332, through
              Catholicism, or to be more precise: Through a special element within
              Catholicism. His third strike came in 1998, through an element within
              Islam.

              In the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries, everything evolved much more
              slowly than today -- centuries then may be compared to decades now. So
              about 200 years after Sorath's second strike through Catholicism,
              Ignatius Loyola did his work, giving birth to the Jesuit movement,
              which formed the backbone of the notorious Inquisition.

              Although the Loyola-individuality reincarnated later as the Swedish
              seer Swedenborg, who refuted the work of his former self, Loyola's
              role in Catholicism is to a certain extent comparable to bin Laden's
              role in Islam, and by the same token, the Jesuit movement may be
              compared to Al Qaida.

              What the Ark archives are concerned, I'm not sure if the content of
              those posts should be considered public domain because I seem to
              recall it was a closed and private group. A dispute arose in those
              days because the PLANS people had planted some kind of mole there and
              re-published certain quotes in the hole (the WC list).

              What is public record, however, is that article by Catherine about
              Rudolf Steiner as some sort of occult kinky sadist who psychologically
              tortured a crazy lady who had the hots for him and tried to make
              scandals. The idea behind this presentation seems to rest upon some
              sort of Freudian obsession with sexuality, suggesting that Steiner was
              sexually active with all women close to him, causing all kinds of
              unsavory intrigues connected with our animal nature.

              Tarjei
            • Mike Helsher
              I ve read a bit of controversy about this famed article on this list. I haven t read the whole thing myself though. [Brother] Tom seemed to have her an a
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 4, 2008
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                I've read a bit of controversy about this famed article on this list. I haven't read the whole thing myself though. [Brother] Tom seemed to have her an a pedestal  when he mentioned her - do whatever you want - simplistic spin that came out of her first reading of the POF.  I've never heard of this woman before and I wonder what kind of legacy she has left so far. There are alot of good writers out there; I suppose Peter Staudenmaier is on of them. Brother Tom as well. What are the deep down motives for what they write? I ask this because I started writing a book recently and I'm asking myself this question every day. Perhaps the title to the book "Thinking with the power of Love" lends itself to more self scrutiny but still it has me questioning any form of frozen concepts place into cryogenic word  freeze.

                After reviewing some of [Brother] Toms recent writings on this list, the old Goethe quote popped into my head: "thinking about thinking would drive one mad".

                Best

                 Mike Helsher
                http://www.michaelhelsher.lifesuccessconsultants.com/
                http://www.thewealthguardian.com/
                PS. I'm launching a free publication I'm calling "The Wealth Guardian" here in AZ with a first distribution of around 10,000 that will seek to re-define the idea of wealth in all areas of human experience. Its good advertising for my coaching and speaking business but it will also be open to all sorts holistic wealth endeavors. I'm revamping the website and I'm looking for content in many different areas. Let me know your ideas!

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: elfuncle <hisholiness@...>
                To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 7:40:17 AM
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jesuits and Al Qaida (was: bondarev)

                --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, "SCos" <vtsophia@.. .>
                wrote:

                >
                > '"Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at
                anyone, discredit him first if you can."
                >
                > well, dottie, i think this has been done rather successfully.
                remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well
                researched and well reasoned article on RS's comments about the
                jesuit's spiritual exercises and their whole "will to power" thing. i
                don't want to use the wrong, because RS was perfect in everything, but
                i can say she proved rather convincingly to me that his comments about
                the jesuits were mis-placed. i don't know if her article is still
                archived somewhere on the net.
                > stephen

                During the first days of this forum, in November 2003, Richard Distasi
                and I discussed the lecture cycle "The Book of Revelation and the Work
                of the Priest" (Vorträge und Kurse über christlich-religiö ses Wiurken,
                V. Apokalypse und Priesterwirken, GA 346). I believe it was the very
                last cycle Rudolf Steiner was able to give before his illness put an
                end to his lecturing activities.

                Some of the content became especially interesting in the light of
                9/11, particularly the infuence of Sorath, the Sun Demon, and the
                mystical number 666 in the Apocalypse. Beginning in the year 666,
                Sorath began his strikes every 666 years, with considerable increasing
                strength each time. So Sorath's second strike was in 1332, through
                Catholicism, or to be more precise: Through a special element within
                Catholicism. His third strike came in 1998, through an element within
                Islam.

                In the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries, everything evolved much more
                slowly than today -- centuries then may be compared to decades now. So
                about 200 years after Sorath's second strike through Catholicism,
                Ignatius Loyola did his work, giving birth to the Jesuit movement,
                which formed the backbone of the notorious Inquisition.

                Although the Loyola-individualit y reincarnated later as the Swedish
                seer Swedenborg, who refuted the work of his former self, Loyola's
                role in Catholicism is to a certain extent comparable to bin Laden's
                role in Islam, and by the same token, the Jesuit movement may be
                compared to Al Qaida.

                What the Ark archives are concerned, I'm not sure if the content of
                those posts should be considered public domain because I seem to
                recall it was a closed and private group. A dispute arose in those
                days because the PLANS people had planted some kind of mole there and
                re-published certain quotes in the hole (the WC list).

                What is public record, however, is that article by Catherine about
                Rudolf Steiner as some sort of occult kinky sadist who psychologically
                tortured a crazy lady who had the hots for him and tried to make
                scandals. The idea behind this presentation seems to rest upon some
                sort of Freudian obsession with sexuality, suggesting that Steiner was
                sexually active with all women close to him, causing all kinds of
                unsavory intrigues connected with our animal nature.

                Tarjei




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              • dottie zold
                I like Catherine and respect her work. I disagree with her paper and had found it to be full of holes. The paper was written not from an esoteric stand point
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 5, 2008
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                  I like Catherine and respect her work. I disagree with her paper and had found it to be full of holes. The paper was written not from an esoteric stand point but from her own look at the situation which is and was colored by the words put forth by Rudolf Steiner on the Jesuits and the Catholic path. So is my understanding of reading the paper and debating it with her. Right after that we no longer spoke as she felt that I was just reacting like everyone else. I was not. I had gone bit by bit with it and found lots of personal insights that did not feel objective at all. But that's true for most of all of our works in any case.
                   
                  Problem is, so it seems to me, is that she and Stephen, Joel, and a few others felt that the remarks against her paper were personal and not objective and that the Steiner students objected as they couldn't bear to see their teacher defamed. I found that her paper was full of holes period and many leaps of faith had to be made in order to believe it as it was her opinion off of what she read not off of an esoteric research point of view.
                   
                  She has too much good work to be skewered for that one paper. However I also find the Tomberg students used this paper to continue their need to have Steiner on par with Tomberg.
                   
                  All good things,
                  Dottie

                  Mike Helsher <mhelsher@...> wrote:
                  I've read a bit of controversy about this famed article on this list. I haven't read the whole thing myself though. [Brother] Tom seemed to have her an a pedestal  when he mentioned her - do whatever you want - simplistic spin that came out of her first reading of the POF.  I've never heard of this woman before and I wonder what kind of legacy she has left so far. There are alot of good writers out there; I suppose Peter Staudenmaier is on of them. Brother Tom as well. What are the deep down motives for what they write? I ask this because I started writing a book recently and I'm asking myself this question every day. Perhaps the title to the book "Thinking with the power of Love" lends itself to more self scrutiny but still it has me questioning any form of frozen concepts place into cryogenic word  freeze.

                  After reviewing some of [Brother] Toms recent writings on this list, the old Goethe quote popped into my head: "thinking about thinking would drive one mad".

                  Best

                   Mike Helsher
                  http://www.michaelhelsher.lifesuccessconsultants.com/
                  http://www.thewealthguardian.com/
                  PS. I'm launching a free publication I'm calling "The Wealth Guardian" here in AZ with a first distribution of around 10,000 that will seek to re-define the idea of wealth in all areas of human experience. Its good advertising for my coaching and speaking business but it will also be open to all sorts holistic wealth endeavors. I'm revamping the website and I'm looking for content in many different areas. Let me know your ideas!

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: elfuncle <hisholiness@...>
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 7:40:17 AM
                  Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Jesuits and Al Qaida (was: bondarev)

                  --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, "SCos" <vtsophia@.. .>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > '"Steiner is really clear. I think if you are going to aim at
                  anyone, discredit him first if you can."
                  >
                  > well, dottie, i think this has been done rather successfully.
                  remember catherine from the old ARK, she wrote a wonderful, well
                  researched and well reasoned article on RS's comments about the
                  jesuit's spiritual exercises and their whole "will to power" thing. i
                  don't want to use the wrong, because RS was perfect in everything, but
                  i can say she proved rather convincingly to me that his comments about
                  the jesuits were mis-placed. i don't know if her article is still
                  archived somewhere on the net.
                  > stephen

                  During the first days of this forum, in November 2003, Richard Distasi
                  and I discussed the lecture cycle "The Book of Revelation and the Work
                  of the Priest" (Vorträge und Kurse über christlich-religiö ses Wiurken,
                  V. Apokalypse und Priesterwirken, GA 346). I believe it was the very
                  last cycle Rudolf Steiner was able to give before his illness put an
                  end to his lecturing activities.

                  Some of the content became especially interesting in the light of
                  9/11, particularly the infuence of Sorath, the Sun Demon, and the
                  mystical number 666 in the Apocalypse. Beginning in the year 666,
                  Sorath began his strikes every 666 years, with considerable increasing
                  strength each time. So Sorath's second strike was in 1332, through
                  Catholicism, or to be more precise: Through a special element within
                  Catholicism. His third strike came in 1998, through an element within
                  Islam.

                  In the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries, everything evolved much more
                  slowly than today -- centuries then may be compared to decades now. So
                  about 200 years after Sorath's second strike through Catholicism,
                  Ignatius Loyola did his work, giving birth to the Jesuit movement,
                  which formed the backbone of the notorious Inquisition.

                  Although the Loyola-individualit y reincarnated later as the Swedish
                  seer Swedenborg, who refuted the work of his former self, Loyola's
                  role in Catholicism is to a certain extent comparable to bin Laden's
                  role in Islam, and by the same token, the Jesuit movement may be
                  compared to Al Qaida.

                  What the Ark archives are concerned, I'm not sure if the content of
                  those posts should be considered public domain because I seem to
                  recall it was a closed and private group. A dispute arose in those
                  days because the PLANS people had planted some kind of mole there and
                  re-published certain quotes in the hole (the WC list).

                  What is public record, however, is that article by Catherine about
                  Rudolf Steiner as some sort of occult kinky sadist who psychologically
                  tortured a crazy lady who had the hots for him and tried to make
                  scandals. The idea behind this presentation seems to rest upon some
                  sort of Freudian obsession with sexuality, suggesting that Steiner was
                  sexually active with all women close to him, causing all kinds of
                  unsavory intrigues connected with our animal nature.

                  Tarjei




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