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RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

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  • Frank Thomas Smith
    ... Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, Make Mary (Magdalene) leave us, for females don t deserve life. Jesus said, Look, I will
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 8, 2003
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      > In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book called
      > Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite
      > interesting to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

      Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary
      (Magdalene) leave us, for females don't deserve life."
      Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can
      become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes
      herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

      But don't worry too much, the meaning is ambiguous and most unclear, to say
      the least. It may have to do with being androgynous, or some kind of gnostic
      code
      Frank
    • golden3000997@cs.com
      Thanks Frank! Whoa, something good to chew on there! I have that somewhere on my shelves, I think. Maybe I can find it on the Net. Can t reconcile it with
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 8, 2003
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        Thanks Frank!

        Whoa, something good to chew on there! I have that somewhere on my shelves, I
        think. Maybe I can find it on the Net. Can't reconcile it with other texts,
        though.

        Did you see my bit on public education? Still working on it for you, though.

        : ) Christine

        By the way, the company I work for here in Miami has a branch in Buenos
        Aires. Real belly of the beast stuff! Won't say what just now. I am still trying to
        figure it out. I have only been there 2 months.
      • Richard Distasi
        Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes herself male will enter
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 8, 2003
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          "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can
          become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes
          herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
           
          Just a stab in the dark here but this may be a reference to a possible transfiguration of the etheric body of Mary Magdalene. That is, her etheric body is male and that Christ heightens its awareness such that she was then to become the first person to perceive the Risen Etheric Christ.
           
          rick distasi
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 12:33 PM
          Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine




          > In the Nag Hammadi Library there is a book called
          > Mary. You shall find it there. As well it is quite
          > interesting to read Philip and the Voice of Thunder.

          Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary
          (Magdalene) leave us, for females don't deserve life."
          Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can
          become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes
          herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

          But don't worry too much, the meaning is ambiguous and most unclear, to say
          the least. It may have to do with being androgynous, or some kind of gnostic
          code
          Frank







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        • dottie zold
          Hey Rick, Where is this quote from? I hope its not the same one from the Nag Hammadi book of Mary. I am wondering if anyone knows if this book found of Mary is
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 8, 2003
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            Hey Rick,

            Where is this quote from? I hope its not the same one
            from the Nag Hammadi book of Mary. I am wondering if
            anyone knows if this book found of Mary is different
            than the one found in the late 1800s? I just read
            there was a book of Mary found during that time
            period. Don't know the specifices though or the
            validity of such a thing.

            The Sufi women as well were called male but that was
            in reference to Master.

            I still don't understand the etheric things so much. I
            can't seem to really really rap my mind around it.

            Peace,=
            Dottie

            --- Richard Distasi <radistasi@...> wrote:
            > "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that
            > she too can
            > become a living spirit resembling you males. For
            > every femaile who makes
            > herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

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          • Richard Distasi
            Dottie, The quote that I posted of which you ask was posted by Frank Thomas Smith in an earlier message. That one sentence really got my attention. Here is
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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              Dottie,
               
              The quote that I posted of which you ask was posted by Frank Thomas Smith in an earlier message. That one sentence really got my attention. Here is what Frank posted:
               
              *********************************************************************************************
               
              Also The Gospel of Thomas, verse 114: Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary
              (Magdalene) leave us, for females don't deserve life."
              Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too can
              become a living spirit resembling you males. For every femaile who makes
              herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
               
              **********************************************************************************************
               
              rick distasi
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 7:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

              Hey Rick,

              Where is this quote from? I hope its not the same one
              from the Nag Hammadi book of Mary. I am wondering if
              anyone knows if this book found of Mary is different
              than the one found in the late 1800s? I just read
              there was a book of Mary found during that time
              period. Don't know the specifices though or the
              validity of such a thing.

              The Sufi women as well were called male but that was
              in reference to Master.

              I still don't understand the etheric things so much. I
              can't seem to really really rap my mind around it.

              Peace,=
              Dottie

              --- Richard Distasi <radistasi@...> wrote:
              > "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that
              > she too can
              > become a living spirit resembling you males. For
              > every femaile who makes
              > herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

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            • Frank Thomas Smith
              Dottie wrote: The Sufi women as well were called male but that was in reference to Master. FTS: That might very well be the explanation here as well, i.e,
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                Dottie wrote:
                The Sufi women as well were called male but that was
                in reference to Master.


              • Frank Thomas Smith
                ... too. ... each ... as it ... continue. ... well ... stupid ... just go ... about ... parents ... concerned ... state ... limited ... put ... done in ...
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                  Christine wrote:
                  > And yes, Frank, if you are reading this - I mean the Waldorf movement,
                  too.
                  > The seeds of human freedom which it seeks to plant, nurture and guard in
                  each
                  > human child are very dangerous to the forces in the world today. As long
                  as it
                  > remains quiet and acquiescent to the state, it will be allowed to
                  continue.
                  > But the state, contrary to popular belief, is not stupid. They know very
                  well
                  > who we are. And now, the American movement has made the unbelievably
                  stupid
                  > mistake of getting into bed with the public (state) school system! Let's
                  just go
                  > ahead and marry the executioner, why don't we?? PLANS is absolutely right
                  about
                  > their position that Waldorf Education has no place in the public school
                  > system and that Waldorf educators should be honest and upfront with all
                  parents
                  > about the Anthroposophy and Christianity that lives within it. I am not
                  concerned
                  > with the forum that is running on it about whether or not RS was connected
                  > with the Nazis, that's another subject entirely. But Waldorf education in
                  state
                  > schools has two things wrong with it - Waldorf teachers are inherently
                  limited
                  > in what they can say and do, even though they may have more freedom in the
                  > classroom than other public school teachers and Waldorf education has been
                  put
                  > under the gaze of the power system at large. It's not that what we do in a
                  > Waldorf classroom is or should be secret - far from it. But it should be
                  done in
                  > total freedom and independence from any other controlling factor. And only
                  > those parents and families who understand it honestly and as fully as
                  possible
                  > should participate. Sometimes withholding truth can be as bad as a direct
                  lie.
                  > That's what I meant, Frank.

                  Okay, Christine, I thought you meant that Waldorf schools hide what
                  anthroposophy really is, in respect ot reincanation, the spirit,
                  religiosity, the Nazi accusation, etc. As far as the relation of schools
                  (Waldorf and others) to
                  the state, I agree with you. In my experience, most W-teachers haven't the
                  vaguest idea of what the Threefold concept entails: autonomous schools, free
                  from state control. And many of those few who do realize it are afraid to
                  mention it. When the Sra. Inspectora comes they fall all over themselves
                  kissing her ass. The one course I still teach in the teachers training
                  school in Buenos Aires is called Ecologia social, for want of a better name,
                  I guess. It's 50% threefold society and 50% organzation development and
                  group dynamics. In the first part I try to hammer into their young heads
                  that W-schools should be models of state-free schools. Much nodding of
                  heads, even applause, though I suspect they forget it once in teaching
                  activity. Anecdote: A few months ago a new inspector came to our little
                  school here in the wilderness, very nice woman, most enthusistic about what
                  she saw. I told her we're thinking of withdrawing our request for state
                  approval, because we're not able to comply with the stupid burocratic
                  requirements and their costs. She agreed with our criticism, but said it
                  would be a mistake to break off because the parents, espedcially new ones,
                  woudn't understand that. Also, after the 6th grade (end of primary school
                  here) the kids would still have to take a state exam to enter high school.
                  (Two good arguments which we were well aware of.) She also said she would do
                  all possible to obtain approval. Fine, we went along, but nothing has
                  changed because not even she can shake the bureaucracy. Now we are thinking
                  of changing to a cooperative, with the teachers as members, not employees,
                  and kiss the Ministerio de Educacion goodbye. But the teachers themselves
                  are afraid of this.
                  >
                  > I have a manuscript which I will either type or try to scan that addresses
                  > the revolutionary aspect of Waldorf Education. I intend to send it to you
                  in
                  > entirety. In the meantime, I will say that the bit about the Threefold
                  Social
                  > Order being on the table at Versailles was told to me and six other
                  teacher
                  > trainees in 1977-78 by Rene Querido. If it's not true, I want to know why
                  he told
                  > us. The manuscript that I am working on supports it, but does not state it
                  > exactly. I will keep researching. If you can, please tell me why you said
                  that it
                  > never happened.

                  Steiner spoke with various high ranking German politicians, and wrote
                  memorandums, trying to convince them that Germany offer the threefold
                  society as a post-war (I) alternative at peace negotiations. Although some
                  seemed well disposed to the idea, nothing happened and it never reached
                  Versailles. (Lindenberg - "Rudolf Steiner-Eine Biographie" and elsewhere).
                  Why Querido may have said something different, I don't know.

                  Frank
                • dottie zold
                  Hi Christine, Rick and Frank, The Gospel of Mary is only four pages or so long. This quote is when the brothers have become bereaved with the departure of
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                    Hi Christine, Rick and Frank,

                    The Gospel of Mary is only four pages or so long. This
                    quote is when the brothers have become bereaved with
                    the departure of Christ. This one doesn't state it in
                    the 'make us all males' although it is similar. I
                    couldn't find the exact quote I was looking for last
                    night.

                    Gospel of Mary: How shall we go to the Gentiles and
                    preach the gospel of the kingdom of the Son of Man? If
                    they did not spare him how will they spare us? Then
                    Mary stood up greeted them all and said to her
                    brethren, "Do not weep and do not grieve nor be
                    irresolute, for his grace will be entirely with you
                    and will protect you. But rather let us praise his
                    greatness, for he has prepared us and made us into
                    men." When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to
                    the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the
                    Savior.

                    Peter said to Mary, "Sister, we know that the Savior
                    loved you more than the rest of the women. Tell us the
                    words which you remember - which you know but we do
                    not nore have we heard them. Mary answered and said
                    "What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you."

                    Gsopel of Phillip:

                    There were three who always walked with the Lord. Mary
                    his mother and her sister and Magdalene, the one who
                    was called his companion. His sister and his mother,
                    and his companiion were each a Mary.

                    AND HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING THAT FOLLOWS. (MY
                    CAPS:)

                    "The Father and the Son are single names. the Holy
                    Spirit is a double name. For they are everywhere: they
                    are above, they are below; they are in the concealed,
                    they are revealed. The Holy Spirit is revealed: it is
                    below. It is in the concealed: it is above.

                    You made a comment about Magdalene and another melted
                    but you can not show it yet. I think it might be found
                    in this above.

                    It is clear, very clear in the Nag Hammadi that
                    Magdalene is the most loved of Christ Jesus. Philip
                    states it, Thomas states it, Mary states it and there
                    are others but my eyes tired of looking for them last
                    night. This is a huge book. And it is in many pieces
                    as is my bible. I am even missing the first three
                    pages of Genesis due to it falling a part in my
                    hands:)

                    Also in Philip:

                    As for Wisdom, who is called barren, she is the mother
                    of the angels. And the companion of the Savior (is)
                    Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the
                    disciples and used to kiss her ofter on her mouth. The
                    rest of the disciples were offended by it and
                    expressed disapproval. They said to him, " Why do you
                    love her more than all of us? The Savior answered and
                    said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? When a
                    blind man and one who sees, are both in darkness, they
                    are no different from one another. When the light
                    comes the he who sees will see the light, and he who
                    is blind will remain in darkness.

                    The Lord said "Blessed is he who is before he came
                    into being. For he who is, h as been and shall be.

                    Christine, for me I have always read the bible for
                    what was just before a passage, that rang a bell, and
                    also that which is read after. For some reason I had
                    not thought to read the Nag in the same manner. But
                    today while writing this I found my self realizing
                    what Christ is really saying in regards to the
                    companion. I am thinking that the word consort and
                    companion, which is usually used to explain the
                    relationship of Christ to Sophia in the Nag, have the
                    same meaning? Do you interpret them one and the same?

                    Did you know that the technical translation of Kingdom
                    within is actually Queendom within in the original
                    Aramaic language that Jesus spoke; Malduka. For me its
                    like my main man was walking around calling on all to
                    find the Queendom within:)

                    I am wondering if Frank or Rick might be able to point
                    to a book within the Nag of a conversation with Mary
                    begging the Lord to be patient with her many
                    questions, and the men, probably my friend Peter,
                    complaining that she is taking up too much time
                    because they can't seem to get a question in edgewise?
                    It is in one of these that Mary makes the statement of
                    making us all males.

                    I am finding it interesting that they called Salt,
                    Sophia. It makes me think on my question of the story
                    about ?(can't remember her name at the moment) turning
                    to a pillar of Salt. It looks like she lost out in
                    living yet she had no part of the fornication that
                    took place between father and daughters.

                    Interesting for me for I found seven women while
                    looking for pillars in an art piece that called to
                    mind Pillars of Faith.

                    Happy Sunday,

                    dottie

                    Christine wrote:
                    > Please tell me WHERE she says that!!! Is it in the
                    > BIBLE?? If so, Please give
                    > me the chapter and verse - I really want to see it
                    > for myself. Doesn't ring a
                    > bell at all. In fact, I don't recall any quotes of
                    > her at all except when she
                    > meets The Risen Christ and asks him where he put her
                    > teacher (rabbi).
                    >
                    > This is really, really important to me, so please
                    > find me that quote. Thank
                    > you!
                    >
                    > : ) Christine
                    >


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                  • golden3000997@cs.com
                    Hi Dottie et al! Cool Stuff, this Internet Thing!!! Been doing lots of reading, researching, getting Mary pictures for you Dottie! Look at the highlight below,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                      Hi Dottie et al!

                      Cool Stuff, this Internet Thing!!!

                      Been doing lots of reading, researching, getting Mary pictures for you
                      Dottie! Look at the highlight below, I'll emphasis it, in case the Bold doesn't
                      work.

                      Here is the link:

                      http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

                      Cut and pasted from a search on the site above:

                      Search = Mary

                      Search Result
                      The (Second) Apocalypse of James -- The Nag Hammadi Library
                      The (Second) Apocalypse of James, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site
                      includes the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other
                      primary Gnostic scriptures and documents.
                      relative of his. He said, "Hasten! Come with Mary, your wife, and your
                      relatives
                      The Gospel of Philip -- The Nag Hammadi Library

                      The Gospel of Philip, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the
                      entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary
                      Gnostic scriptures and documents.

                      ********************

                      Some said, "Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit." They are in error. They do
                      not know what they are saying. When did a woman ever conceive by a woman? Mary
                      is the

                      **************************

                      There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her
                      sister, and companion were each a Mary.

                      angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more
                      than all the
                      The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- The Nag Hammadi Library
                      The Sophia of Jesus Christ, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes
                      the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary
                      Gnostic scriptures and documents.
                      Mary said to him: "Lord, then how will we know that?"


                      Mary said to him: "Holy Lord, where did your disciples come from, and where
                      are

                      The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- Translations and Resources
                      The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection
                      of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi
                      Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and
                      documents.
                      21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

                      114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve
                      Gospel of Thomas (Lambdin Translation) -- The Nag Hammadi Library
                      The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection
                      of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi
                      Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and
                      documents.
                      (21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are your disciples like?"


                      (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy
                      of

                      The Dialogue of the Savior -- The Nag Hammadi Library
                      The Dialogue of the Savior, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes
                      the entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary
                      Gnostic scriptures and documents.
                      Mary said, "Lord, behold! Whence do I bear the body while I weep, and whence
                      while

                      Mary hailed her brethren, saying, "Where are you going to put these things
                      about

                      Then he [...] Judas and Matthew and Mary [...] the edge of heaven and earth.
                      And when Mary said, "[...] see evil [...] them from the first [...] each
                      other.


                      Mary said, "Thus with respect to 'the wickedness of each day,' and 'the
                      laborer is

                      Mary said, "Tell me, Lord, why I have come to this place to profit or to Mary
                      said to him, "Lord, is there then a place which is [...] or lacking truth?"
                      Mary said, "Lord, you are fearful and wonderful, and [...] those who do not
                      know

                      Mary said, "I want to understand all things, just as they are!"
                      Mary said, "Everything established thus is seen."


                      Mary said, "There is but one saying I will speak to the Lord concerning the

                      Mary said, "Of what sort is that mustard seed? Is it something from heaven or
                      is Mary said, "They will never be obliterated."
                      Mary said to the Lord, "When the works [...] which dissolve a work."


                      Introduction to the Nag Hammadi Library
                      through James and through Mary Magdalene [who the Gnostics revered as consort
                      to Jesus]. disciple had been a woman, Mary Magdalene, his consort. The Gospel
                      of Philip
                      "...the companion of the Savior is Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more
                      than

                      The Testimony of Truth -- The Nag Hammadi Library
                      The Testimony of Truth, from The Nag Hammadi Library. This site includes the
                      entire Nag Hammadi Library, as well as a large collection of other primary
                      Gnostic scriptures and documents.
                      the world through a virgin, Mary. What is (the meaning of) this mystery? John
                      was begotten
                      Gospel of Thomas - Patterson & Robinson Translation -- Nag Hammadi Library
                      The Gospel of Thomas in multiple translations, along with a vast collection
                      of material about the Thomas tradition. This site includes the entire Hammadi
                      Library, as well as a large collection of other primary Gnostic scriptures and
                      documents.
                      (1) Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?"
                      (1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are not
                      worthy of

                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      --
                      32 matches.
                    • dottie zold
                      Dear Christine, You are pretty amazing! I would like to know if you could slow down just a second and look at some of the questions I have for you? I have been
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                        Dear Christine,

                        You are pretty amazing!

                        I would like to know if you could slow down just a
                        second and look at some of the questions I have for
                        you?

                        I have been following this for three years and finally
                        found someone who speaks my language regarding
                        Magdalene. There is much more of her to be found
                        regarding the mystery of ChristSophia.

                        Do you have time to look at some of the questions? I
                        thought I moved fast, whew:) Its funny what
                        inspiration will do 'ey?

                        So, do you recall how you came to this? Where did your
                        inspiration of the Holy Spirit as feminine originate?
                        What books have you read that have led you to this?
                        Have you thought about Magdalene as the inspirant for
                        the Fourth Gospel and that of The Voice of Thunder?
                        Has it ever occurred to you that Christ initiated
                        Magdlaene and not a man called Lazarus? Do you see her
                        at the table before Christ sacrificed? Do you see her
                        with Christ at the end of John? Do you see Judas as
                        forgiven symbolically through the acceptance of Paul?
                        Where are your inspirations regarding Mary through the
                        house?

                        Had Dr. Steiner inspired you to the Mary mystery? If
                        so, what books?

                        Some of the questions I have asked may not seem
                        credible or whatever, however there are a few things I
                        am working on and they are not clear to me yet. But I
                        am very interested in the Mary questions?

                        Could you make some time for these? What did you think
                        of the passage directly following the 'men' remark in
                        Phillip? Do you intuit anything from that?

                        What age were you when you started to really click
                        with the Mary mystery?

                        I know you have a lot on your plate. If you would take
                        the time I would especially be grateful.

                        Admiringly,

                        Dottie

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                      • golden3000997@cs.com
                        Hi Dottie! I m going to paste all this on a word document, then hit the books for answers. The two Jesus children, along with the 2 Josephs & 2 Marys were what
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                          Hi Dottie!

                          I'm going to paste all this on a word document, then hit the books for
                          answers. The two Jesus children, along with the 2 Josephs & 2 Marys were what got me
                          really excited in the first place (1976?) Lecture by Rene Querido (in person
                          - Spring Valley NY Christmas conference) I liked all the cosmic stuff, but
                          after having a bout with "born again" Christianity a few years prior (I graduated
                          HS in 1973). I didn't want to hear anything about Jesus. Then that lecture -
                          WOW!

                          I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all of Anthrop, at
                          least in the sense of Christology. It is such an open secret - and a terrific way
                          to get Jehovah's Witnesses off your doorstep for good! ; )

                          Well, the 2 Marys were pretty obvious after that and Steiner's "Gospel of St.
                          Luke" has the most beautiful illumination in my opinion. But Steiner talks
                          about the 3 soul forces - especially in the Mystery Dramas, which were pretty
                          hot in Spring Valley when I was there at the time. It may have been in
                          conversation with Hans & Ruth Pusch at lunch (I used to clean their house for a while
                          before Hans died). But I guess I just needed Mary Magdalene personally. I felt
                          that she was the only spiritual being I knew of at the time who could
                          understand me at the time, being the sex freak I was back then (until fairly
                          recently). She just fit in perfectly as the Maria of the Will Soul Force. Eva Maria
                          (the Virgin Mary in Luke) the Maria of the Heart or Feeling Soul Force. Mother
                          Mary (Maria Sophia of the Head or Thinking Soul Force).

                          I went through a period of classes to become a Catholic (around 1991 or 1992
                          I think). Oh my God, I can just hear the Anthropops howling now!!! But I have
                          had such very profound experiences and reaction taking the Eucharist (which I
                          did, even though not a Catholic) and I thought I should join so that I could
                          do that with more honesty. I also was involved during that time with a
                          University catholic church with very progressive thinking priests (and there are
                          radicals among them, you know - another topic altogether!). It was a very good
                          experience, but the whirlwind of my life took me away before my joining. I also
                          have had periods of using the rosary and with very good inward effect. Somewhere
                          in all of that, I really came clear about Her as the Divine Feminine of the
                          Godhead. She is the Matrix, the Bearer, the Comforter. Christ said that He
                          would send the Comforter and He has. I have been to Conyers, GA, and even though
                          there was a spooky element that wasn't good (totally my own perception)
                          nevertheless SHE was there simply because all the people were there to reach up to
                          HER. I could feel Her Presence, but not necessarily from Nancy What's Her Name.
                          'Nother subject.

                          Then there is the whole Apocalypse thing - the woman clothed with the Sun,
                          with the Stars around her head and the moon under her feet. The patriarchal
                          church wants us to believe that that is an image of the "church" per se, but I
                          don't think so. It is the Goddess and they really couldn't handle that!!

                          I relate Mary Magdalene with the Divine Whore (oh, the howling!!!!) of the
                          ancient mysteries. I believe that when men (male bodies to be specific)
                          incarnated after the fall, they fell more deeply into matter than female bodies and
                          during the Babylon/ Chaldean, Sumerian, etc. times, the priestesses were
                          "whores" in the sense that men paid money to the temple, then went into the temple
                          and lay with a priestess. During the sex act, she filled his soul with love and
                          life force and raised his vibration so that he could feel connected again with
                          the world of the stars. Don't ask me where this comes from, my own vision I
                          guess, but probably lots of different things I've read over the years. But I
                          did have a very real and very profound clairvoyant perception of myself in
                          Atlantis after I had made love with someone who is a friend now (this was about
                          seven years ago) and I actually felt in Spirit what sex was like back then -
                          NOTHING could ever compare today with the unity of souls in the star world!!!!
                          Well, we can't go back again, but Oh boy, was it amazing!!!

                          I think that Mary Magdalene was in a way the last in the line of sacred
                          whores. Her whole Ego from the past and bodily experience during the Incarnation of
                          Christ brought this into line with the I AM. Through the Christ it was
                          transformed into the power to heal the Will Element of the female soul force. Mind
                          you, I am talking about Archetypes of Male & Female, not whether an individual
                          is a man or woman. We are all both. Manifestations of Karma has some really
                          funny passages about this!! : )

                          Anyway, I'm going to get tied to the stake for all of this, I'm sure, but it
                          lives within me and I don't have anyone in my life to share it with, so your
                          asking is bound to unlock the floodgates!

                          I will try to get some good sources for you. I don't really know how much of
                          RS you have already studied and in what areas - there is so much to try to
                          explore!! If you haven't read "St. Luke", I highly recommend it!

                          More later!

                          Luv,
                          Christine : )
                        • dottie zold
                          Hey Christine, Thanks so much for answering me so quickly:) There is more that needs to be explored so hopefully the floodgates will be opened. I don t see
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                            Hey Christine,

                            Thanks so much for answering me so quickly:) There is
                            more that needs to be explored so hopefully the
                            floodgates will be opened.

                            I don't see Magdalene nor the other priestess as
                            'whores'. I believe that is man made. And I do believe
                            it did disinegrate at some point but I do not feel she
                            was a part of that. I believe the Voice of Thunder
                            speaks to that.

                            She came to me as well. And it completely freaked me
                            out. She came as me, and I physically batted her away.
                            I didn't understand and it left me in tears as to 'why
                            me', who am I to experience such a thing'. I have been
                            searching ever more so since that day. I usually get
                            rushes I call the Burning Bush :) in December and then
                            again at Easter. This year it happened also right on
                            St. Johns Day. Didn't know it was his day until I
                            questioned what was happening. It was like a seven day
                            period of inspirations.

                            I have an amazing book that speaks to the issue of
                            'holy whores'...and actually I had done some research,
                            little, about the word harlot, it actually was a
                            reference to a vagabond man. Had nothing to do with a
                            woman. Anyway, I have no issue with Magdalene being a
                            prostitute if indeed she was, however I don't find
                            this to be true. The kissing on the mouth also is the
                            way knowledge/initiation was expressed from what I can
                            tell.

                            Its funny when you said she came to you. Its
                            interesting because you can really sense her. She's so
                            readily available to be experienced or maybe she is so
                            ready to share to those who are open to her. And you
                            know its her. Its pretty clear.

                            Good. I found it was the Fifth Gospel that really put
                            John the Baptist and Magdalene in perspective for me
                            and also the two Mary mothers. Although I must say
                            that I have a little theory about one of those
                            mothers. Still kicking it around though.

                            I have read quite a bit of Steiner. Maybe forty or
                            fifty or more books. Feel pretty connected to his
                            spirit although I am not your usual Steiner student.
                            And that's an understatement.


                            Thanks, Christine

                            Dottie

                            p.s. btw Aminah was not the daughter of Muhammed, she
                            was his mother:)

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                          • Richard Distasi
                            Dottie, It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                              Dottie,
                               
                              It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated. You may have already stressed this in your past posts so if I'm repeating something already mentioned and noted by you please excuse me.
                               
                              The one passage that I find intriguing is that these passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male. Does it mean that she is taught certain things and initiated to a certain degree that she is now respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?
                               
                              rick distasi
                            • Richard Distasi
                              Christine wrote in regard to the two Jesus infants: I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all of Anthrop, at least in the sense of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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                                Christine wrote in regard to the two Jesus infants:
                                 
                                "I still think it is the most REVOLUTIONARY concept in all of Anthrop, at
                                least in the sense of Christology. It is such an open secret - and a terrific way
                                to get Jehovah's Witnesses off your doorstep for good! ;  )"
                                 
                                I absolutely agree. I was stunned when I read this from Steiner and it was this very revelation that put me over the top in uniting myself with Anthroposophy. I thought that the fact that Christ and Jesus were separate was radical enough; the two Jesus infants/children was a shocking revelation for me.
                                 
                                As far as Jehovah's Witnesses: I had a couple of them come to my door once. I confronted them with some of the material from Anthroposophy and they were stupefied. They had no response. One even wanted to get more information about Anthroposophy.
                                 
                                rick distasi 
                              • golden3000997@cs.com
                                Good Morning Rick et all! I had two separate experiences with the Jehovah s Witnesses in California. It was really funny! You see, I don t go around and knock
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                  Good Morning Rick et all!

                                  I had two separate experiences with the Jehovah's Witnesses in California. It
                                  was really funny! You see, I don't go around and knock on other people's
                                  doors and try to sell them my belief system, but when they do that to me, I
                                  consider them "fair game."

                                  The first time was two older ladies. Their question was "do you read the
                                  Bible?" LOL Well, I said "Certainly" and invited them in for coffee. After about
                                  30 or 40 minutes of dissertation on the opening of the Gospel of St. John, they
                                  were (literally) backing out of my apartment, edging against the wall. "Come
                                  on Mabel." One was saying. "I think we need to go now." And of course, they
                                  never came back, which is good because they tend to be like the hobos of the
                                  depression, who used to leave a mark on the front door or gate of a house that
                                  had offered hospitality, so the other hobos would go there.

                                  But a couple of years later, a young man came round (must have been a new
                                  recruit and didn't know the sign for "Keep Away" yet). I did the same thing and
                                  he kept saying "Come to a meeting and ask the Elders about that." I am pretty
                                  sure I was pointing out the two geneaologies to him. I told him "YOU go back to
                                  your meeting and ask the Elders about that!"

                                  After that, they distributed maps of the area to all new recruits with my
                                  house clearly marked.

                                  : ) Christine
                                • Richard Distasi
                                  Christine you wrote: After that, they distributed maps of the area to all new recruits with my house clearly marked.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                    Christine you wrote:
                                     
                                    "After that, they distributed maps of the area to all new recruits with my
                                    house clearly marked."
                                    ************************************************************************************
                                     
                                    I wish I could say the same. :-)
                                     
                                    rick distasi
                                  • dottie zold
                                    Morning Rick, ... When you say initiate do you mean to convey that the other diciples were not, other than this one whom Jesus loved? If so I would have to say
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                      Morning Rick,

                                      You wrote:
                                      > It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us
                                      > that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned
                                      > the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an
                                      > initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated.

                                      When you say initiate do you mean to convey that the
                                      other diciples were not, other than this one whom
                                      Jesus loved? If so I would have to say that it could
                                      be none other than the Magdalene, and that the raising
                                      of Lazarus points to that, not to mention all the
                                      comments in the Nag Hammadi referring to Jesus loving
                                      her the most and kissing her on the mouth and so
                                      forth. As I said earlier I have seen it referenced in
                                      many places, not specifically pointing to Magdalene,
                                      that kissing on the mouth is an initiatic reference.
                                      The book I am reading on the Sufis speaks of this as
                                      well.

                                      I don't think anyone can really say for 100 % that a
                                      thing is such and such. I can only say that in my
                                      personal studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in
                                      the manner he is discussed. I am open to it not having
                                      been Magdalene if this is the truth.

                                      I am wondering if you are aware of any other
                                      initiatic experience to the level of the 'beloved' in
                                      the bible? Maybe it has escaped me and there is
                                      another way of looking at this Lazarus thing. When I
                                      trail the Marys I find they are indeed 'one whom God
                                      helped' in the OT as well: the sister of Moses and the
                                      woman with Elija given the rod. Its funny because it
                                      is noted by a few scholars that Muhammed made a
                                      mistake by naming the Virgin Mary as the sister of
                                      Moses. They say he confused his Marys. I say he knew
                                      'exactly' what he was saying its just there wasn't
                                      anyone of understanding who was enlightened enough to
                                      see what he was saying.

                                      Rick
                                      You may
                                      > have already stressed this in your past posts so if
                                      > I'm repeating something already mentioned and noted
                                      > by you please excuse me.

                                      Dottie

                                      No, I hadn't stressed it although I did mention it.
                                      This tends to get me in a bit of hot water with
                                      Christoligists. But I didn't pull this out of thin
                                      air. It came from within. I think when I saw your
                                      words this morning it made me wonder, because I am
                                      always looking for a way to be wrong about my
                                      insights, if I am onto something with Lazarus or if
                                      there is another initiative scene that could possibly

                                      > speak to the Magdalene mystery as the 'beloved'.

                                      Rick
                                      > The one passage that I find intriguing is that these
                                      > passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male.
                                      > Does it mean that she is taught certain things and
                                      > initiated to a certain degree that she is now
                                      > respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

                                      Dottie

                                      I think it is more than that. However, she is now
                                      called, I can't remember since when, maybe the
                                      fifties, The Apostle to The Apostles by the Catholic
                                      Church: Teacher to the Teachers. I believe Steiners
                                      Genesis speaks to the 'male' thing. I believe it may
                                      be the 'raying' out of the ...well I will find it in
                                      the book today. I believe it is the persons who are
                                      able to radiate love, Christ/Sun like, from within to
                                      without like the suns rays from above. And I believe
                                      it is said this happened during the time when we were
                                      coming into being. I believe it is what happened when
                                      the ancient sages of the day called out to the Cosmos
                                      and they heard a resounding 'yes'(my belief)returning:
                                      I believe that is the male aspect and the humans are
                                      the female aspect as the recievers. Eunichs have made
                                      themselves recievers of the 'word' so that they can
                                      become male??

                                      I believe she is called Apostle to the Apostles for
                                      many reasons and mostly because she was able to
                                      recognize Jesus as the Christ when resssurected. She
                                      was the only one. Which brings up an interesting point
                                      of recognizing Jesus 'as' the Christ. A man was truly
                                      ressurected as one in Christ. And this is why I
                                      believe she is the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and
                                      also the reason I see her as representing the Sophia,
                                      daughter voice of God.

                                      My thoughts,
                                      Dottie

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                                    • dottie zold
                                      Dear Rick, In Genesis lecture 2 we find Dr. Steiner discussing Hashamayim and Ha aretz. You know that in the Bible, after the words I endeavored to sketch
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                        Dear Rick,

                                        In Genesis lecture 2 we find Dr. Steiner discussing
                                        Hashamayim and Ha'aretz. " You know that in the Bible,
                                        after the words I endeavored to sketch for you
                                        yesterday, there comes a description of one of the
                                        complexes arising our of the creative thinking of the
                                        gods. I told you that we have to picture that, as if
                                        out of cosmic memory, two comlexes arose. One was a
                                        complex which may be compared to the nature of
                                        thoughts which can arise in us, the other to our
                                        desire or will nature. The one complex contains all
                                        that drives towards outer manifestation, tends as it
                                        were to proclaim its force-hashamayim. The other
                                        complex-ha'aretz-consists of an inner activity filled
                                        with desire. Then we are told of certain qualities of
                                        this inwardly active, enlivening element, and these
                                        are indicated in the Bible with the sounds which
                                        portray their character. We are told that this
                                        inwardly active element was in a condition described
                                        as tohu wa'bohu- without form and void.To understand
                                        what is meant by tohu wa' bohu we must paint a picture
                                        of it; and we shall only succeed in this if out of our
                                        spiritual scientific knowledge we call to mind what it
                                        was that, after its passage through the Saturn, Sun
                                        and Moon stages, re-emerged and surged through space
                                        as our earth existence, as our planet earth."

                                        ...

                                        So, we have to imagine the elements of warmth, air and
                                        water permeating and interpenetrating each other, and
                                        within them a raying out as from a centre in all
                                        directions, and this raying out would be there if we
                                        only heard the first part of the sound structure,
                                        tohu. What does the second part of the phrase signify?
                                        It expresses the very opposite of what I have just
                                        described. Bet, the sound which resemebles our B, had
                                        the character of calling forth our imagination the
                                        picture of an enormous sphere, a hollow sphere, with
                                        yourself inside it, and rays proceeding from every
                                        point inside this sphere towards the center. Thus you
                                        imagine a point in space with forces streaming out in
                                        all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces
                                        are arrested as it were by an outer spherical
                                        enclosure and turned back on themselves from every
                                        direction of space, and this is bohu."

                                        So, this is what I mean by the raying in and out and
                                        the male and female aspect. Which also includes the
                                        planet earth as signified by the word ha'aretz and the
                                        Sun signified as the word hashamayim. Yin & Yang

                                        Dottie


                                        > Rick
                                        > > The one passage that I find intriguing is that
                                        > these
                                        > > passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a
                                        > male.
                                        > > Does it mean that she is taught certain things and
                                        > > initiated to a certain degree that she is now
                                        > > respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?


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                                      • Richard Distasi
                                        Dottie: Steiner does make mention that Christ Jesus did bring the Apostles along by stages through the different levels of Initiation so that they too were
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                          Dottie:
                                           
                                          Steiner does make mention that Christ Jesus did bring the Apostles along by stages through the different levels of Initiation so that they too were Initiates. The twelve attained the level of Imagination when the Gospels relate the scene of the walking on water. As time went on only three were able to attain Inspiration on Mount Tabor; the Transfiguration. And even here it begins to become evident that these three, Peter along with James and John ben Zebedee, were not able to fully remain conscious through this Initiation. Finally, these three were to pass through the Initiation of Intuition and it is here that they fail completely. They cannot retain consciousness. They are then unable to pass through the Event of Golgotha in spirit-consciousness with Christ: not just physically present at the Cross but rather they were to become one spiritually with Christ (in Intuition with Christ) throughout the whole event of Golgotha. They could not. Days prior to this Christ had initiated Lazarus with the intent that if His chosen Apostles could not stay with Him there would be one who could and would become the bearer of the astral body of Christ Jesus which would then become the source of the Gospel of John. This was Lazarus as Steiner had pointed out in his lectures on the Gospel of John in Hamburg, 1908. Mary Magdalene was certainly another Initiate of Christ. It was she who experienced the Risen Christ and told it to the others. I don't have anything from Steiner that addresses the level of initiation that she had achieved though the Gnostic Gospels mention her as being more advanced than the Apostles themselves. It should be noted that though Lazarus became John in name he was not John who accompanied Christ to Mt. Tabor nor was he John who slept while Christ passed through His agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. Lazarus and Mary Magdalene were brother and sister along with Martha; all three of whom were mentioned as being "loved" by Christ. 
                                           
                                          rick distasi
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:01 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Divine Feminine

                                          Morning Rick,

                                          You wrote:
                                          > It should be noted that Steiner has made known to us
                                          > that when the disciple who Jesus loved is mentioned
                                          > the Gospel is pointing to the fact that this is an
                                          > initiate that Christ Jesus has initiated.

                                          When you say initiate do you mean to convey that the
                                          other diciples were not, other than this one whom
                                          Jesus loved? If so I would have to say that it could
                                          be none other than the Magdalene, and that the raising
                                          of Lazarus points to that, not to mention all the
                                          comments in the Nag Hammadi referring to Jesus loving
                                          her the most and kissing her on the mouth and so
                                          forth. As I said  earlier I have seen it referenced in
                                          many places, not specifically pointing to Magdalene,
                                          that kissing on the mouth is an initiatic reference.
                                          The book I am reading on the Sufis speaks of this as
                                          well.

                                          I don't think anyone can really say for 100 % that a
                                          thing is such and such. I can only say that in my
                                          personal studies I can not find Lazarus as a being in
                                          the manner he is discussed. I am open to it not having
                                          been Magdalene if this is the truth.

                                          I am wondering if you are aware of any  other
                                          initiatic experience to the level of the 'beloved' in
                                          the bible? Maybe it has escaped me and there is
                                          another way of looking at this Lazarus thing. When I
                                          trail the Marys I find they are indeed 'one whom God
                                          helped' in the OT as well: the sister of Moses and the
                                          woman with Elija given the rod. Its funny because it
                                          is noted by a few scholars that Muhammed made a
                                          mistake by naming the Virgin Mary as the sister of
                                          Moses.  They say he confused his Marys. I say he knew
                                          'exactly' what he was saying its just there wasn't
                                          anyone of understanding who was enlightened enough to
                                          see what he was saying. 

                                          Rick
                                          You may
                                          > have already stressed this in your past posts so if
                                          > I'm repeating something already mentioned and noted
                                          > by you please excuse me.

                                          Dottie

                                          No, I hadn't stressed it although I did mention it.
                                          This tends to get me in a bit of hot water with
                                          Christoligists. But I didn't pull this out of thin
                                          air. It came from within. I think when I saw your
                                          words this morning it made me wonder, because I am
                                          always looking for a way to be wrong about my
                                          insights, if I am onto something  with Lazarus or if
                                          there is another initiative scene that could  possibly

                                          > speak to the Magdalene mystery as the 'beloved'.

                                          Rick
                                          > The one passage that I find intriguing is that these
                                          > passages speak of making Mary Magdalene into a male.
                                          > Does it mean that she is taught certain things and
                                          > initiated to a  certain degree that she is now
                                          > respected as a Rabbi or Teacher?

                                          Dottie

                                          I think it is more than that. However, she is now
                                          called, I can't remember since when, maybe the
                                          fifties, The Apostle to The Apostles by the Catholic
                                          Church: Teacher to the Teachers. I believe Steiners
                                          Genesis speaks to the 'male' thing. I believe it may
                                          be the 'raying' out of the ...well I will find it in
                                          the book today. I believe it is the persons who are
                                          able to radiate love, Christ/Sun like, from within to
                                          without like the suns rays from above. And I believe
                                          it is said this happened during the time when we were
                                          coming into being. I believe it is what happened when
                                          the ancient  sages of the day called out to the Cosmos
                                          and they heard a resounding 'yes'(my belief)returning:
                                          I believe that is the male aspect and the humans are
                                          the female aspect as the recievers. Eunichs have made
                                          themselves recievers of the 'word' so that they can
                                          become male??

                                          I believe she is called Apostle to the Apostles for
                                          many reasons and mostly because she was able to
                                          recognize Jesus as the Christ when resssurected. She
                                          was the only one. Which brings up an interesting point
                                          of recognizing Jesus 'as' the Christ. A man was truly
                                          ressurected as one in Christ. And this is why I
                                          believe she is the inspirant for the Fourth Gospel and
                                          also the reason I see her as  representing the Sophia,
                                          daughter voice of God.

                                          My thoughts,
                                          Dottie

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                                        • Richard Distasi
                                          Dottie, You quoted some very weighty material from Steiner s lectures on Genesis and I can appreciate the raying out and steaming back again as macrocosmic
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                            Dottie,
                                             
                                            You quoted some very weighty material from Steiner's lectures on Genesis and I can appreciate the raying out and steaming back again as macrocosmic male and female principles of creation. What caught my attention was the following from Steiner:
                                             
                                            "Thus you imagine a point in space with forces streaming out in
                                            all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces
                                            are arrested as it were by an outer spherical
                                            enclosure and turned back on themselves from every
                                            direction of space, and this is bohu."
                                             
                                            ". . .these forces are arrested . . .and turned back on themselves."  Arrested by whom or what is my question. In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man in the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy", he speaks of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun Period who enveloped this particular cosmic sphere which now makes up our present solar system. The space that they occupied is now the space that we recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations. They poured their World-Word into this sphere which was then taken up by Christ who at that time was a microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow, then, their forces must still be at work even if they no longer are present in these spheres, and I could not find anything from Steiner on this regard, or their forces may have been taken up by the hierarchies (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out of the forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their limit of expansion and are then turned back upon themselves. It is this region that is filled with the Being of Christ during the exhaling of His Being during the spring and summer, gathers the cosmic wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us as it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of the year.
                                             
                                            rick distasi
                                             


                                             
                                             
                                          • dottie zold
                                            ... Hi Rick, Well it seems it is the elohim are are the arrestees when we re-emerge so it seems from Saturn, Sun and Moon stages. Genesis Lecture 2 You know
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 10, 2003
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                                              from Steiner:
                                              >
                                              > "Thus you imagine a point in space with forces
                                              > streaming out in
                                              > all directions, and this is tohu; then these forces
                                              > are arrested as it were by an outer spherical
                                              > enclosure and turned back on themselves from every
                                              > direction of space, and this is bohu."
                                              >

                                              Rick on Steiner:
                                              > ". . .these forces are arrested . . .and turned back
                                              > on themselves." Arrested by whom or what is my
                                              > question.

                                              Hi Rick,

                                              Well it seems it is the elohim are are the arrestees
                                              when we re-emerge so it seems from Saturn, Sun and
                                              Moon stages.

                                              Genesis Lecture 2

                                              "You know that in the Bible, after the words I
                                              endeavoured to sketch for you yesterday, there comes a
                                              description of one of the complexes arising out of the
                                              creative thinking of the gods. ( I take this to mean
                                              the elohim.)

                                              It almost seem like he is explaining the fall of Man
                                              in a sense in what I shall write below:

                                              "I pointed out yesterday that what we call the solid
                                              conditions, namely that which offers resistance to our
                                              sense, did not exist during the Saturn, Sun and Moon
                                              stages; all that existed then were the elements of
                                              fire or warmth, gas or air, and water. Basically it
                                              was not until the planet earth stage emerged that the
                                              solid element was added to the previous elemental
                                              conditions. So that when the moment occurred that we
                                              described yesterday, of the sun beginning to split off
                                              from the earth, this was the moment when the elements
                                              of warmth, air and water began to mutually
                                              interpenetrate.

                                              Wow....that is pretty amazing when looking at the
                                              beginning of the Earth stage. Wow. Makes me
                                              contemplate Adam & Eve and what each individual
                                              relationship was to the symbols of this re-emergence.
                                              And then the snake???? anyway,

                                              He goes onto say:

                                              " However, we emphasized yesterday that these elohim
                                              came over to earth evolution at the stage to which
                                              they had evolved during the Saturn, Sun and Moon
                                              evolutions. So they were in a similar situation to
                                              when you wake up and bring groups of thoughts to mind.
                                              You can contemplate these thoughts in a kind of
                                              soul/spiritual way, you can tell what they are like.
                                              You can say: 'When I wake up in the morning and recall
                                              what was previously in my mind and what I am now
                                              calling up, I can describe it'. It was approximately
                                              the same for the elohim when they said to themselves:
                                              'let us now think creatively about what arises in our
                                              souls when we recall all that took place during the
                                              old Saturn, Sun and Moon evolutions. Let us see what
                                              it looks like when we remember it.' What it looked
                                              like was tohu wa' bohu, and could be expressed be the
                                              picture I gave you of rays streaming out from a centre
                                              into space and back again in such a way that the
                                              elements interacted in these rays of force. Thus the
                                              elohim could say, roughly: 'This is what things look
                                              like after we have brought them to this point. This is
                                              how they re-emerge.

                                              I need to get this book you speak of below. Is that
                                              the name of it in its current form? That's pretty
                                              amazing information. It feels like it is all coming
                                              together doesn't it?

                                              My Best,
                                              Dottie

                                              Rick wrote:
                                              In a lecture by Steiner titled, "Man in
                                              > the Light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy",
                                              > he speaks of Twelve World Initiators during the Sun
                                              > Period who enveloped this particular cosmic sphere
                                              > which now makes up our present solar system. The
                                              > space that they occupied is now the space that we
                                              > recognize as the twelve zodiacal constellations.
                                              > They poured their World-Word into this sphere which
                                              > was then taken up by Christ who at that time was a
                                              > microcosmic planetary Being. Somehow, then, their
                                              > forces must still be at work even if they no longer
                                              > are present in these spheres, and I could not find
                                              > anything from Steiner on this regard, or their
                                              > forces may have been taken up by the hierarchies
                                              > (Seraphim perhaps) where the streaming out of the
                                              > forces of the Elohim and Spirits of Form reach their
                                              > limit of expansion and are then turned back upon
                                              > themselves. It is this region that is filled with
                                              > the Being of Christ during the exhaling of His Being
                                              > during the spring and summer, gathers the cosmic
                                              > wisdom of the hierarchies and is brought back to us
                                              > as it is inhaled again by the earth at this time of
                                              > the year.
                                              >
                                              > rick distasi
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


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                                            • Richard Distasi
                                              Dottie, you wrote: I need to get this book you speak of below. Is that the name of it in its current form? Man in the light of Occultism, Theosophy and
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 11, 2003
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                                                Dottie, you wrote:
                                                 
                                                "I need to get this book you speak of below. Is that
                                                the name of it in its current form?"
                                                 
                                                "Man in the light of Occultism, Theosophy and Philosophy" is a lecture cycle given By RSteiner in 1912. There are ten lectures to it. The lecture that I made reference to was lecture X. 
                                                 
                                                To access this lecture I listed below a link to it via elib.com. It is the following:
                                                 
                                                 
                                                rick distasi
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