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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Seasons Greetings

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  • JoAnn Schwartz
    ... Hey Diana, Lots of self-righteous folks in the world. I myself have run into self-righteous Christians, vegans (Oh my, don t get *them* started!! ),
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 30, 2007
      --- winters_diana wrote:

      > this part, which you didn't quote:
      >
      > "Now about these 'Christians.' (Is that okay? 'People of
      > Jesus'? What's the acceptable term now?) I know they have
      > come a long way since we used to feed them to the lions
      > in (let's face it) the good old days. And I've personally
      > apologized and atoned for that. Many times."
      >
      > . . . speaks to me just as loudly, and though I don't
      > miss that it's all part of the satire, does it ever
      > trouble you even briefly that this description of the
      > supposedly superior pagan ways is, um, true? -
      > that they *did* throw Christians to the lions, that the
      > pagans haven't actually got anything over their later
      > rivals in the morality department? Modern pagans are on
      > their high horse about their moral superiority and it's
      > all baloney, pagans weren't any better than Christians
      > then or now, despite their generally liberal self-
      > righteousness today.
      >
      > Pagans today are apparently convinced that they represent
      > some kind of "true" religion, a return to a "natural"
      > order in the universe. To nonbelievers, all this appears
      > to be mainly a question of who is throwing whom to the
      > lions at any given time.

      Hey Diana,

      Lots of self-righteous folks in the world. I myself have
      run into self-righteous Christians, vegans (Oh my, don't
      get *them* started!! <G>), Jews, Conservatives, Muslims,
      feminists, Christian Scientists, and on and on and on... I
      have also met a few self-righteous pagans, but I try not to
      hang out with them. (First rule in my tradition is, "Dare
      to be dorky." -- which is to say, dare to do the work.)

      As for regretting the Romans throwing the Christians to the
      lions, well, I regret it about as much as most Christians
      regret the Burning Times or the Inquisition. I prefer to
      save my outrage for stuff that is happening *now*, such as,
      you know, torture, secret prisons, renditions,
      "disappearing" US and Canadian citizens, gutting habeas
      corpus, Guantanamo, School of the Americas, and on and on
      and on...

      Your Maya May Vary,
      JoAnn





      ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
      When people tell you who they are — believe them. -- Maya Angelou
    • winters_diana
      ... In other words, not much. That s what I meant. You view it as not really having anything much to do with you, and are content to go on feeling complacently
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 31, 2007
        JoAnn:
        > As for regretting the Romans throwing the Christians to the
        > lions, well, I regret it about as much as most Christians
        > regret the Burning Times or the Inquisition.

        In other words, not much. That's what I meant. You view it as not
        really having anything much to do with you, and are content to go on
        feeling complacently superior to other religions despite the fact that
        there's really no basis for considering one superior to another. Pagan
        religions aren't truer, and aren't closer to nature - that belief
        itself is characteristic of most religions. Yeah, my maya varies :)
        Diana
      • Frank Thomas Smith
        ... Yeah, my maya varies :) Yeah! Nyuk, nyuk.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 1, 2008
          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "winters_diana"
          <winters_diana@...> wrote:
          >
          Yeah, my maya varies :)

          Yeah! Nyuk, nyuk.
        • JoAnn Schwartz
          ... Huh, met some evangelical pagans, have we? Personally, it s fine by me if your maya varies. I have no interest in converting you or anyone else. You
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 1, 2008
            JoAnn:
            >> As for regretting the Romans throwing the Christians to
            >> the lions, well, I regret it about as much as most
            >> Christians regret the Burning Times or the Inquisition.


            Diana:
            > In other words, not much. That's what I meant. You view
            > it as not really having anything much to do with you,
            > and are content to go on feeling complacently superior to
            > other religions despite the fact that there's really no
            > basis for considering one superior to another. Pagan
            > religions aren't truer, and aren't closer to nature -
            > that belief itself is characteristic of most religions.
            > Yeah, my maya varies :)

            Huh, met some evangelical pagans, have we? Personally,
            it's fine by me if your maya varies. I have no interest in
            "converting" you or anyone else. You are your own
            spiritual authority, after all. I got my *own* work to do.

            Blessings on the work,
            JoAnn





            ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
            When people tell you who they are — believe them. -- Maya Angelou
          • winters_diana
            ... This was a response to the article you posted - not a personal comment that I thought you were trying to convert me. Neither anything I said nor the
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 1, 2008
              > Diana:
              > > In other words, not much. That's what I meant. You view
              > > it as not really having anything much to do with you,
              > > and are content to go on feeling complacently superior to
              > > other religions despite the fact that there's really no
              > > basis for considering one superior to another. Pagan
              > > religions aren't truer, and aren't closer to nature -
              > > that belief itself is characteristic of most religions.
              > > Yeah, my maya varies :)

              JoAnn:

              > Huh, met some evangelical pagans, have we? Personally,
              > it's fine by me if your maya varies. I have no interest in
              > "converting" you or anyone else. You are your own
              > spiritual authority, after all. I got my *own* work to do.

              This was a response to the article you posted - not a personal
              comment that I thought you were trying to convert me. Neither
              anything I said nor the article had anything to do with anybody
              converting anybody. It was a response to the self-congratulatory tone
              of the article, which implied, as I pointed out, that paganism was
              a "realer," "truer" religion, closer to nature etc., older and thus
              more authentic, the very familiar theme among modern pagans that
              Judeo-Christianity is a sort of overlay of an earlier, more genuine
              religious understanding. (We would all be worshipping Saturn if only
              we understood the real meaning of the holiday; Easter is "really" a
              fertility rite, etc.)

              I pointed out that the problem with this self-perception on the part
              of many pagans, for instance the author of that piece, is that it is
              not true.
              Diana
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