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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Event cont. etc.

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  • dottie zold
    Dear Gman and Frank, I found this interesting site on the way towards understanding the exact language of the verse brought forth by Gman. It s not about what
    Message 1 of 49 , Jul 1, 2007
      Dear Gman and Frank,

      I found this interesting site on the way towards
      understanding the exact language of the verse brought
      forth by Gman. It's not about what we are looking at
      but I found it stunning to see such clarity in where
      the split occurs in regards to the two Jesus children.
      Even the critics can see this:)


      Today Jewish trace their ancestry via the maternal
      line. Today if your mother is a Jew, you are reckoned
      Jewish, but if your father is a Jew, then not. And as
      I mentioned above, in the case where a man only has
      daughters, his line would not be cut off, but would be
      reckoned according to the first born son of the
      daughters. Jesus was also a special case (after all,
      how many Jews had no biological father?). So
      establishing his biological ancestry was important.

      Matthew's genealogy of Jesus is recorded in Matthew
      1:1-16, and Luke's is recorded in Luke 3:23-38. It has
      long been known that these two records do not agree
      with each other. Specifically, they diverge after
      Solomon, converge at Shealtiel (the father of
      Zerubbabel), diverge after Zerubbabel and do not
      converge again until Joseph, the father of Jesus.


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    • Kim Graae Munch
      I think it was Kees who said he was one of the three Kings, and it may have been right, but it would be a tight schedule. I believe that RS is Peter, the one
      Message 49 of 49 , Sep 20, 2009
        I think it was Kees who said he was one of the three Kings, and it may have been right, but it would be a tight schedule.
        I believe that RS is Peter, the one who leads Christianity forward, and that Anthroposophy is a continuation of that, but in the spirit of 1879, and his strong irritation over the Catholic Church was that it behaved in that way toward him, it's initiator. Pisces is the symbols for the era he should lead the Church through. The Peter character in the bible behaved rather much like a pisces. It's only a guess though, that he should be a Pisces, though.
        Being in the Sun Sphere could also be understood that he was sun initiated, and therefore also conscious in the sun sphere, not necessarely discarnated, but I would like to read the source.
        The twelve disciples were incarnated two hundred years before as the seven Maccabees and the sons of Mattathias , where Judas, Peter, and John where sons of Mattathias, so there may be some indications there who is who. But it's not the first time these twelve have been mentioned in the bible.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
        Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:20 AM
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Waking up the Will


        I have read often stated that Rudolf Steiner said he was not there. And I have just recently heard it stated he mentioned something about King Melchior, one of the three kings...now I don't know that for myself but I will say it makes sense along the lines of John the Baptist crossing the Threshold, Zarathustra crossing the Threshold and also King Melchior if indeed he was the individuality of Rudolf Steiner.
        Steiner has said he was in the Sun sphere with others when the Mystery of Golgotha took place...I read this a while back. I don't recall reading the 'Sun sphere' but that is something that is discussed by others and I will see if I can find a reference from Rudolf Steiner. If you consider he represented Pisces, who would that have been? He was emphatic he was not John the Baptist...and I in my research found him connected to Lazarus or Lazarus didn't really exist for me. It wasn't until a few days ago I found reference in the Two John's book by Sergei Prokofieff that Rudolf Steiner did indeed offer one of the three seeds of the future spirit body as did John the Baptist and Zarathustra. I do not know this for myself nor have I looked at it seriously.
        All good things,

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Kim <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

        From: Kim <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Re: Waking up the Will
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 10:25 PM

        Hi Dottie, You take for granted that Steiner wasn't incarnated, but have
        you any sources for that? I believe that the 12 most influential men of
        in history of man were incarnated at that time, as the twelve types of
        man, signs of the zodiac, should be present at the mystery at Golgotha.
        And I Guess that he represented Pisces then also, as the leader of

        --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, dottie zold
        <dottie_z@...> wrote:
        > Yes and that's what I had been thinking on during my walk: that the
        Mary's have been alighted upon as well....see when Lazarus was 'given'
        over to Mary and Mary unto him, we have to consider who the spirit
        beings were that were working on them from the spiritual worlds: we have
        John the Baptist, Zarathustra, and also Rudolf Steiner....now,  though,
        we also have to consider the stepmother a special connection as she
        received the Baptist, Zarathustra, and also the Nathan Mary from above
        before the Baptism, before Lazarus was raised...she walked with the
        Christ Jesus as one in a way.....as she was now most like Him and I
        imagine that is why Christ Jesus can say to John 'this is your mother'
        and we can see why when we see her she is youth personified, ever
        > And this brings me to the disciples, who were now also Christ embued
        even though Rudolf Steiner shares that their knowledge really didn't
        come forth until about the second and third century where then it could
        finally make its way to those on the earth, where those in the heavens
        could inspire those on the earth with true knowledge of the Christ.
        > Now, I imagine its a known but it just occurred to me that Saint
        Francis and St. Luke are one....does Rudolf Steiner share this anywhere?
        And then I was wondering what the number of disciples were that were
        marytrd? I am wondering if it was 9?
        > All good things,
        > Dottie
        > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the
        human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
        > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Kim Graae Munch kimgm@... wrote:
        > From: Kim Graae Munch kimgm@...
        > Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Waking up the Will
        > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 12:20 PM
        > It's right, but don't forget that Love has also awoken in the Mary's,
        just see the difference between Martha and Magdalene.
        > Kim
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        [mailto:anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
        > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:54 PM
        > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Waking up the Will
        > And that's why we see this Mary younger! She too has the regenerative
        ability, the Will too had awoken in her, and I imagine this has to do
        with Spirit Self in a way....well, I don't know really, but if we
        consider that waking up the Will allows us to walk the body, this was in
        the Gospel and that Gospel was and is for our time and also all time but
        also for our time....Revelations gets a little more 'out of time' in a
        way as it speaks for the future, but the others speak for present time.
        > And are we not the community that should be able to rightly hear from
        out of the future the needs of the Sixth Epoch, what we will have to
        accomplish during this epoch? And if we put ourselves to the task we
        shall be prepared....
        > It's kinda like what Pythagoras speaks to when he shares the whole
        journey of Psyche in a way: in order to come to our true abilities we
        must awaken now to the best of our ability. And to awaken means to get
        our antipathies and sympathies in line. If we do not do this now, when
        we cross the Threshold we shall have to spend time there that we would
        not have to spend otherwise nor as long. This is how the students of
        Rudolf Steiner can return so quickly with him, no longer is it just he
        or the Initiates that return, rather it is also those who have taken the
        steps to get this element of the work handled. And his closest chosen
        students were in line with him. And in that they were sincere in their
        efforts, even if they failed their tests after he left, although again I
        do see that as something that had to occur because of the
        Catholic/Jesuit influence that was trying to come forth, they would be
        able to recoup quickly as they too were initiated at the
        >  Christmas Conference.. ..
        > And that's another things, those at the Christmas Conference were
        students of his at Pythagoras so they were not initiated unknowingly,
        that is how they could find him in the first place and the reason they
        came upon him from all over: to receive the final element of the
        initiation needed for the Consciousness Soul.
        > All good things,
        > Dottie
        > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the
        human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
        > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, dottie zold dottie_z@yahoo. com> wrote:
        > From: dottie zold dottie_z@yahoo. com>
        > Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Waking up the Will
        > To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 9:04 AM
        > Hi Friends,
        > I awoke to an interesting experience this morning and I imagine it
        came from contemplating something I found in A.E. Waitt's Kaballah book,
        and it has to do with the Will.
        > A.E.Waite is kinda funny, and the kinda traditional thinkers I like to
        read because he lays everything out on the table and then goes to show
        you how its wrong! Just like the early church fathers who were
        denouncing the Johannine Church. Ah, that just brought a thought....I
        wonder if the Christian Community Church has its roots in the Johannine
        thought..... ..well, anyway....These church fathers are almost the only
        proof we have, outward proof, that there was a church that was led by
        the Magdalene and John the Evangelist and James I imagine...It' s from
        these early denials that others were able to piece this community
        together and also piece together the Sophia really, in Christian
        > So, what I awoke with is how Lilith really represents deviant
        sexuality and actual beingness in any case, that shows how the Will is
        asleep. And that when we wake up, which in legend Adam wakes up again to
        Eve, after 130 years apart, and it seems 'after she is seperated from
        the Serpent' who begot Cain, and he was hanging out with Lilth, another
        mystery in there somewhere, and what we are seeing is the Will when it
        is asleep.
        > Waking up the Will is the work in Rudolf Steiner's whole life's study.
        And how we wake up the will is by balancing our feelings between Ahriman
        and Lucifer. Thinking it seems is almost left out of the equation really
        when the feelings are not in balance. It is a process though and slowly
        through all of this, and through our self reflection, coming to our self
        consciousness, when we balance things we begin to experience this Will,
        this higher Will being awake. How we know it is awake in us, is that we
        become self regenerative. Our thoughts, as now our feelings are
        balanced, work with the higher beings, and our thoughts rise even higher
        to this intuition that somehow we have passed some level within that
        allows us to really become the co-creators with all that lives in the
        > And its interesting, its interesting because suddenly you are faced
        with your own self consciousness and your choices and what you want and
        why and even if you want anything.... its like a new calling to
        purity...all your lessons, all your work that led to this Will waking up
        now have to really be pure. I don't know what would happen if your
        thinking at this point was not pure, I imagine one would actually be
        manipulating things to their personal wants and desires of this world
        and I would imagine that would be really really bad. I can imagine that
        either the beings, if your lucky, would stop working with you and you
        are unable to continue working with the Will and the co-creators, or if
        you are unlucky the adversary Beings will help you to continue working
        with the Will and you begin a serious decline away from what brought you
        there in the first place...unless of course you are a magician and have
        somehow bipassed this rightful course of moral
        >  imagination in the world and you have practiced and attained this to
        ill......not good. And hopefully if you are manipulating things you are
        unconscious this way you can find yoru way back after falling off the
        wagon and then recognizing the beings and the errors of your way you
        begin anew.
        > Mr. Crowley fortunately for him was not conscious of his feelings that
        drove him to be doing what he was doing...one can just know that from
        the fact that it was his mother who named him The Beast. One can just
        imagine having a mother that would call her child The Beast and what
        that childhood musta been like. Yes, maybe it was tough on the mother, I
        imagine one would have to check the biography of the mother to see what
        produced something like that, however in any case she set his course by
        that very action. And I am sure it was unconsious like most of what we
        say or do. That really is such a blessing or the adversary would have
        hold of so many people's conscious will. Big difference between the two
        and both with different ramifications on the other side.
        > The Will is regenerative. .. I imagine this must have to do with the
        returning to the birthin process where we birth out of our larnyx in the
        future. And here on the earthly world it shows itself immediately when
        one begins to wake up the Will and the Cocreating Beings are working
        with you....its not as if 'your wish is your command' but its something
        like that...and it goes in line as well with 'be careful what you wish
        for'...but for those who are working towards consciousness it is
        conscious in us to work towards a thing and to then see its
        manifestation as something we were working towards and not something
        that just occurs out of something we just thought of......however,
        however when the Will appears to us and we realize it is waking up, our
        Father in us is waking up, little things will begin to happen that if
        you are not paying attention you might not notice otherwise, but it is
        the beginning of how these regenerative forces work. And I imagine in
        >  the moment when one realizes that this is occurring one has the
        thought of tempation... tempation will meet it immediately and the
        choice is either of the higher or of the lower...and the choice, or so
        it seems to me, will constantly be there....and that is kinda like the
        devil on the right shoulder with the little tail, or the angel on the
        left waiting to see what your choice will be...that little angel on the
        left doesn't make a sound, its completely up to the person in freedom
        what he chooses to do.
        > And I wonder, and I guess we will see, if the more good choices, those
        linked with the higher Will, we make, the more we are trusted and able
        to do. But again it is a process. I would think it would be a done deal
        when someone reaches there but its not, it continues to be a choice.
        > And so many think we are awake in our will and that we are consciously
        doing this or that. And in truth, unless we recognize what our feelings
        are in the matter, our antipathies and sympathies, we are asleep. We may
        be waking up but ultimately we are asleep. And many think because they
        are intelligent and they get Steiner's work and they can pronounce it
        frontwards, backwards, sideways and all ways, this means they are awake.
        Nope, nope it doesn't work like that. One must be aware of the feelings
        of why they think this or do that. It is clear cut case otherwise where
        one is sleeping in their feelings and do not know it when and if the
        Will, the higher Will was to awake, chaos would ensue as we would have
        everywhich way and loose. The Spiritual worlds can't work like that,
        there is law and order in the spiritual worlds, even when bringing
        something to humanity that looks like it is bad, as many see with
        Mohammed, it actually serves a purpose. And we
        >  humans might not like it but the higher beings know better and they
        have to throw down these things to balance out the feelings on all
        > And how we work towards waking up the Will is not by our intelligence
        its by our understanding, our ability for self consciousness. And if you
        think you are good at being self conscious and good at reflecting, think
        again. Thinking again about what we think we know or we think we are
        good at is a real good thing. It is really the only way we can keep
        ferretting out that which doesn't work about us. Too often we are
        concerned about the other person and fail to look at ourself...this must
        be the genius behind the whole 'Brother what ails thee' for we know that
        it is really seeing what ails us as well.
        > And Christ waking up the Will, He had to go through the whole process
        in a human body, and we can see that when we hear 'Father take this cup
        from me, but  not my Will thy Will' the conscious sacrafice and not out
        of feelings, but out Love, a conscious Love. And through this knowing of
        the Father's Will, becoming the Father's Will, being the Father's Will,
        He is regenerated on the highest level of the entire body, bones and
        all. It's funny though, it seems backwards a bit, maybe its because He
        came already as the Father's Will, and slowly he lost it while in the
        body in a way...but even then to the last step as when Christ Jesus says
        unto Pilate 'if it were not my Father's Will you would not be able to do
        this'. and this shows the ultimate surrender as if He wanted to counter
        the Father's Will, just like we see Peter struggling to right himself up
        on the cross even though he's upside down and tied at the feet, He could
        have. So I
        >  imagine almost this goes back to the Garden where the choice was to
        partake of the consciousness that led to humanity and the Fall.
        > All good things,
        > Dottie
        > p.s. but this sexuality, we must change it, we must come to an
        understanding that we are asleep in deviant behaviour. And the struggle
        is not to stop it because really that is of no avail, the struggle is to
        wake up to the thinking that is producing this deviant behaviour in
        > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the
        human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

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