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Re: Everybody hurts/Context

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  • gaelman58
    ... I was referring to karma.... and I don t know either...but owing to what I ve read indicated by Steiner I believe that it does. So saying, I would also
    Message 1 of 18 , May 4, 2007
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      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
      <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Frank: I'm just finished ploughing through
      > > "Theosophy"
      > > again...stimulated somewhat by Dottie's recent
      > > questions regarding
      > > spirit and soul...so, one read and mulls...and
      > > questions arise in
      > > one's mind...on one occasion I was thinking about
      > > what Steiner had
      > > to say about karma and the soul's journey between
      > > death and
      > > rebirth...and of course, previous lives.
      > >
      > > And so Frank...do you think it's possible to have an
      > > understanding
      > > of slavery or any other aspect of history...wars,
      > > revolutions,
      > > plagues, and whatnot...without taking those
      > > spiritual considerations
      > > into account?
      >
      > I think it certainly helps to take them into
      > consideration.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > I'll cut to the chase with a simple (at least in the
      > > wording)
      > > question...Given a certain historial social
      > > situation, what part do
      > > you think a man has in his becoming the legal
      > > property of another
      > > man?
      >
      > I assume you're referring to karma. I don't know.

      I was referring to karma.... and I don't know either...but owing to
      what I've read indicated by Steiner I believe that it does. So
      saying, I would also understand that I leave myself open to
      criticism from those with their ideological heads up their ass for
      obliquely "giving a justification" for slavery...something that some
      (not all) of the Critics do with respect to Steiner.
      The bandit (Eli Wallach) says to the paladin-protector (Yul Brenner)
      in "Magnificent Seven" regarding his robbing of the poor peons..."If
      God did want them shorn, he would not have made them sheep"...well,
      it might have been their karma that they were to undergo a periodic
      shearing...but the peons find out they are free men and don't have
      to submit to it.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Careful, lad, there's probably some Critics
      > > eavesdropping....ta hell
      > > wi' em...go for it...regards, McGhee
      > >
      > No problemo. I engaged in a debate with Peter S. a
      > coupla years ago about this. He claimed that Jefferson
      > was racist by the fact of being a slave owner. My
      > point was, and is, that one must take the historical
      > cultural period into consideration. Jefferson was very
      > outspoken against slavery; that he owned them was part
      > of the mileau of the period. He even said that he
      > didn't free them because they would be picked up by
      > others and treated badly. Anyway, by the same token,
      > we could say that the Greek philosophers were
      > pedophiles; today they would be criminals, then it was
      > the norm.
      > Frank

      Frank: A consideration...from Steiner in talking about love and
      sex..."Through its materialism, evolution in our time is veering not
      only toward the unintelligent and illogical but even toward the
      scandalous, when love is dragged into such close association with
      what is covered by the term "sexuality"...so, I'm inclined to take
      with a grain of salt anything an historian has to say about
      pedophilia and Greek philosophers...or anything the man Peter S. has
      to say about racism and Jefferson....regards, McGhee
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank
      > > Smith
      > > <eltrigal78@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Whether your son's friend is correct or not I
      > > can't
      > > > say. But I think that phrase refers to rights.
      > > Problem
      > > > is - or was especially at that time when there was
      > > > slavery - that men become unequal *after* they are
      > > > born. There's been a lot written about Jefferson
      > > and
      > > > the apparent contradiction that although he was
      > > > verbally anti-slavery, he owned slaves.
      > > > Frank
      > > > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with
      > > > > heart...was visiting
      > > > > for the weekend. We were blathering about
      > > politics
      > > > > and I asked him a
      > > > > question that I had sometimes asked other
      > > > > people...the business in the
      > > > > Declaration of Independence about the
      > > self-evident
      > > > > truth that all men
      > > > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being
      > > fully
      > > > > satisfied with
      > > > > anyone's response to the question...but I
      > > remember
      > > > > being really
      > > > > impressed with his response...without hesitation
      > > he
      > > > > said directly and
      > > > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity
      > > for
      > > > > suffering...I
      > > > > remember that at that moment looking into his
      > > eyes I
      > > > > received a direct
      > > > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're
      > > a
      > > > > better man than I
      > > > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Frank Thomas Smith
      > > > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
      > > >
      > > > __________________________________________________
      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
      > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
      > > protection around
      > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > Frank Thomas Smith
      > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
      >
      >
      >
      >
      _____________________________________________________________________
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    • gaelman58
      ... visiting ... him a ... in ... all men ... with ... directly and ... than I ... Of ... themselves in ... take ... cat ... Well Jennifer, I think what
      Message 2 of 18 , May 4, 2007
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
        <write3chairs@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
        >
        > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with heart...was
        visiting
        > > for the weekend. We were blathering about politics and I asked
        him a
        > > question that I had sometimes asked other people...the business
        in
        > the
        > > Declaration of Independence about the self-evident truth that
        all men
        > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully satisfied
        with
        > > anyone's response to the question...but I remember being really
        > > impressed with his response...without hesitation he said
        directly and
        > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for suffering...I
        > > remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I received a
        > direct
        > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a better man
        than I
        > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
        >
        > I hear an important message in here. Thank you for sharing this.
        Of
        > course, those words "all men are created equal" betrayed
        themselves in
        > this country's origin and development. How long did it actually
        take
        > before said equality became reality, for *some* men and then *all*
        > women, where voting rights (among others) were concerned.
        >
        > I leave you with this, words from Mark Twain: "A man who carries a
        cat
        > by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way."
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Jennifer
        >

        Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
        remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to do
        with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
        that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true about
        everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.

        On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
        these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained me
        by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to carry
        him by the tail?...:)...McCann
      • write3chairs
        ... And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The golden thread of life.
        Message 3 of 18 , May 6, 2007
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

          > Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
          > remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to do
          > with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
          > that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true about
          > everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.

          And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How
          obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The
          golden thread of life. The eternal soul is connected to the finite
          body by that force called life. We live. And yes, we hurt. If not for
          the life within us, we wouldn't hurt or feel joy either. It is the
          life force that connects us, not the Internet. ;)

          > On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
          > these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained me
          > by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to carry
          > him by the tail?...:)

          I cannot say, but a word of caution to the kids reading here: don't
          try this at home. :)

          Cheers,
          Jennifer

          > ...McCann
        • gaelman58
          ... do ... about ... for ... Sometimes, it seems to me, Jennifer....there s not much to be said for the thread of life ...like in the prayer, for
          Message 4 of 18 , May 6, 2007
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            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
            <write3chairs@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
            >
            > > Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
            > > remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to
            do
            > > with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
            > > that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true
            about
            > > everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.
            >
            > And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How
            > obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The
            > golden thread of life. The eternal soul is connected to the finite
            > body by that force called life. We live. And yes, we hurt. If not
            for
            > the life within us, we wouldn't hurt or feel joy either. It is the
            > life force that connects us, not the Internet. ;)

            Sometimes, it seems to me, Jennifer....there's not much to be said
            for the "thread of life"...like in the prayer, for instance,..." I
            thank thee, O Heaven, that I have been spared what has happened to
            those poor souls in that terrible situation yonder"...for "terrible
            situations" do arise...and in those situations a reasonable person
            might not choose life...and whereas one can simply leave the
            Internet, from my reading one is committing a great karmic no-no in
            choosing to leave life.
            >
            > > On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
            > > these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained
            me
            > > by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to
            carry
            > > him by the tail?...:)
            >
            > I cannot say, but a word of caution to the kids reading here:
            don't
            > try this at home. :)
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Jennifer

            Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
            slant on it than Twain....
            >
            > > ...McCann
            >
          • write3chairs
            ... McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one about marching to a
            Message 5 of 18 , May 8, 2007
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              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

              > Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
              > slant on it than Twain....

              McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a
              project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one
              about marching to a different drummer). But look at this one I found as
              well.

              "A kitten is so flexible that she is almost double; the hind parts are
              equivalent to another kitten with which the forepart plays. She does
              not discover that her tail belongs to her until you tread on it."

              Had to come and share that with you all. :)

              More later,
              Jennifer
            • gaelman58
              ... Jennifer: Here s my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son s cat who hangs out here...he s very well behaved when I m around...not because he s anything
              Message 6 of 18 , May 9, 2007
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                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                >
                > > Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
                > > slant on it than Twain....
                >
                > McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a
                > project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one
                > about marching to a different drummer). But look at this one I found as
                > well.
                >
                > "A kitten is so flexible that she is almost double; the hind parts are
                > equivalent to another kitten with which the forepart plays. She does
                > not discover that her tail belongs to her until you tread on it."
                >
                > Had to come and share that with you all. :)
                >
                > More later,
                > Jennifer
                >

                Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's cat who
                hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not because
                he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul" must
                have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann
              • write3chairs
                ... You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago: http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer. Cheers,
                Message 7 of 18 , May 11, 2007
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                  > Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's cat who
                  > hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not because
                  > he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul" must
                  > have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                  > reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann

                  You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago:
                  http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv
                  Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer.

                  Cheers,
                  Jennifer
                • gaelman58
                  ... cat who ... because ... must ... Jennifer: I ve read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you any idea why that s the case? Someone once mentioned
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 11, 2007
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                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                    <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                    >
                    > > Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's
                    cat who
                    > > hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not
                    because
                    > > he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul"
                    must
                    > > have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                    > > reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann
                    >
                    > You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago:
                    > http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv
                    > Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Jennifer
                    >

                    Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                    any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                    about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                  • dottie zold
                    Hey Everyone, So, whew, Sophia has just been taken by the Family and Child Services here in Los Angeles due to a technicallity from Michigan on a case that was
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 11, 2007
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                      Hey Everyone,

                      So, whew, Sophia has just been taken by the Family and
                      Child Services here in Los Angeles due to a
                      technicallity from Michigan on a case that was won on
                      the last day of court, but Miriam failed to show due
                      to her 3 month old baby Natalia dying from inopperable
                      cancer. She called to let them know and Eleazar showed
                      up but his id had expired and they refused to allow
                      him to be in court on her behalf.

                      Two case workers from two different counties were
                      working on the case because Miriam had moved from the
                      place where the original complaint began. These two
                      case workers had two very different opinions of Miriam
                      and the hardernose one one the final judgement. The
                      second one appealed and the judge agreed with her
                      points and Sophia the case was then to be closed.
                      Miriam saw the police cars outside her house and
                      thought they were coming to take Sophia when actually
                      we have just found out they came to pick Miriam up for
                      court to hear the judges' ruling. She saw the police,
                      did not answer the door, and then fled here to Los
                      Angeles, not wanting Sophia to be in foster care.

                      Miriam has no family there and is a product of the
                      system its very self. She has a job here that she
                      attends every day and the child is in art class twice
                      a week and also has child care. Miriam also now lives
                      in a two bedroom house, three actually, has a
                      Suburban, going for driving lessons, and is doing
                      extremely well with the support here in our community.


                      Los Angeles Child Care services says they can do no
                      thing as the child has to be expedited back to
                      Michigan. I have spoken with the hardnosed case worker
                      and have explained this and also the wishes that we
                      find a solution that does not have this child in the
                      system due to a technicality. Those of you who have
                      followed this story know that Miriam was picked up
                      just before we got her a job, for 'intent for
                      prostitution'. This is going to be used against her
                      but we have a pretty strong point that once this
                      'intent' was issued the community rallied around her
                      to get her a job and to get her and the family
                      stabalized. They have been so and it has been truly a
                      joy to be around them and the child.

                      So, Wayne County is where the case originated and I am
                      wondering if there is anyone that can help us on that
                      end with the Referree who will be hearing the case?
                      We'd like to get the letters of support as well as the
                      proof of work and so forth to him with a face to face
                      person versus faxing and so forth. My hope is that
                      they will want to find a solution beings it was a
                      technicality in the first place and that she is doing
                      very well here and Detroit has nothing to offer her in
                      Lansing.

                      If anyone is able to work from that end I say it would
                      be a good deed as we do really have a young lady who
                      has turned her life fully around.

                      Thanks,
                      Dottie



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                    • dottie zold
                      Hey Friends, Our study group with Adriana Koulias will start this Sunday, May 13th, at 3pm Los Angeles time. You will need to have downloaded Skype which can
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 11, 2007
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                        Hey Friends,

                        Our study group with Adriana Koulias will start this
                        Sunday, May 13th, at 3pm Los Angeles time. You will
                        need to have downloaded Skype which can be found on
                        the website www.anthroposophia.org One link will say
                        'about Skype' click on this and you will then see a
                        link to 'download' Skype. This will take you to the
                        homepage of Skype and you then click on the link that
                        says 'download now'. This will take about five
                        minutes.


                        In order to participate in the interactive version I
                        will need you to then send me your name so I can 'add'
                        you into the conversation when it is taking place on
                        Sunday. You can email me through this email address:
                        dottie@...


                        To join the Study Group where you can read the first
                        lectures please make sure you have joined the Study
                        Group at the top of the homepage of
                        www.anthroposophia.org I am sorry to say that you will
                        have to join again as all the names were lost when we
                        were having our problems getting started. Those who
                        have signed in during the last week will not have to
                        do this again. If you rejoin and it says 'user name
                        already exists' this means you are a member already.
                        (Originally we had over 100 people join and right now
                        we have 10 people signed in as having joined. So most
                        of you will have to rejoin.) And the Forum is the
                        place where further questions can be discussed in
                        relations to the Study Group and the Extension Work
                        groups. You will have to join this as well at the top
                        of the home page of anthroposophia.org.


                        For the Extension Working groups the times will be:

                        Living the Foundation Stone Meditation with Daniel
                        Bittleston: 10:00 a.m. Sundays starting May 20th. This
                        will be a weekly meeting.

                        'We shall be studying the FSM line by line, to clarify
                        and deepen understanding. For example: What is our
                        experience of our limbs carrying us into the ocean
                        being of spirit?'


                        A Year of Transformation with Dottie Zold: Monday
                        evenings starting 5/14 at 7:00 p.m. This will be a
                        weekly meeting. 'We shall begin with a conversation
                        about the Daily Exercises in How To Know Higher Worlds
                        and how they work to aid us on our path of initiation
                        .'

                        The first lecture can be found once you sign up for
                        the Study Group at the top of our homepage at
                        anthroposophia.org. Once in you will click the link
                        that says 'study group' (first group) and click next
                        each time at the bottom of the page. You may also
                        download it in a pdf format by clicking on one of the
                        little three buttons to the right of the article. If
                        you need any help please email me.


                        Looking forward to seeing you all on Sunday.


                        All good things,

                        Dottie




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                      • write3chairs
                        ... I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they command attention,
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 14, 2007
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                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                          > Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                          > any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                          > about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann

                          I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it
                          sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they
                          command attention, they demand it! Unlike us humans, of course.

                          Regards back,
                          Jennifer
                        • laquerencia33@sbcglobal.net
                          From what I saw, I figure the ashram gurus just didn t want any competition. Wonder what ever happened to those guys after they left the US- Muktananda,
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 14, 2007
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                            From what I saw, I figure the ashram gurus just didn't want any
                            competition. Wonder what ever happened to those guys after they left the
                            US- Muktananda, Rashineesh etc. Anyone know?

                            Deborah


                            of On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:33:48 -0500, write3chairs
                            <write3chairs@...> wrote:

                            > I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                            >> any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                            >> about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                          • gaelman58
                            ... Yes Jennifer, I ve been on an ashram...back in the days when I was an undercover intelligence agent for the Inquisitorial Branch of the Vatican I was given
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 14, 2007
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                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                              <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                              >
                              > > Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                              > > any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                              > > about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                              >
                              > I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it
                              > sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they
                              > command attention, they demand it! Unlike us humans, of course.
                              >
                              > Regards back,
                              > Jennifer
                              >

                              Yes Jennifer, I've been on an ashram...back in the days when I was an
                              undercover intelligence agent for the Inquisitorial Branch of the
                              Vatican I was given the mission of penetrating a certain Indian Occult
                              Brotherhood north of Calcutta...I succeeded but screwed things up when
                              I had a brief torrid affair with the leader's grandmother...seems I
                              babbled in my sleep. I escaped by shaving my head, wearing rags,
                              pretending to be a mute and kicking at cats whenever I ran across
                              them...a local ashram took me in....I left when the stringent celibacy
                              rules got to me....McCann
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