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Re: Soul and Spirit

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  • Frank Smith
    Dear Dottie, I asked a friend about this stuff. Reply follows: Only problem, Frank, is I can´t make it short and sweet. Please bear with me. Freddy ... But
    Message 1 of 3 , May 2 4:14 PM
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      Dear Dottie,
      I asked a friend about this stuff. Reply follows:

      Only problem, Frank, is I can´t make it short and
      sweet. Please bear with me.
      Freddy

      "... But then we know - and you can read it in my
      "Theosophy" - that united with these three members
      (physical body, etheric body and soul body) is what
      one generally comprises under "I". The "I" is actually
      a threefold being: sentient soul, intellectual or mind
      soul, consciousness soul, ... " 1*

      "The "I" dwells in the soul ... Within the "I" the
      spirit is alive and active ...the spirit streams into
      the "I" taking it as its garment..." 2*

      "Our sentient soul interacts with thinking, the
      spirit,...to begin with, thinking serves the sentient
      soul: we formulate thoughts about our sensations and
      thus explain the outer world to ourselves ... our
      material culture is the sum of the services rendered
      to the sentient soul by thinking. We may (now) call
      this soul served by thinking, the mind soul..." 2*

      "We will call the revelation of spiritual things
      "intuition"... Even a very simple thought already
      contains intuition... There would be no intuitions
      without the higher thinking of the spirit (self)...
      the spirit transmits intuitions to the soul by means
      of the organ of intuition... In this way, the "I"
      makes the spiritual world part of its personal soul
      life ..." 2*

      "The soul: 'the own-life of the spirit within itself',
      the everyday I or Ego(Steiner's expression for the
      soul in general, in his work Theosophy). 3*

      My own thoughts:
      The spirit intuits universal general concepts
      according to the development of its faculty of
      intuition (pure sense free spirit thinking) from the
      spiritual world; the universal intuitions meet with my
      specific pictures coming from sense impressions (life
      experiences) and become personalized, individualized
      mental pictures or representations. Where? On my own
      free personal stage called mind soul. I reason freely
      there, connecting mental pictures. If I reason
      honoring the true and the good, my stage becomes
      consciousness soul; If I reason honoring personal
      sympathies and antipathies (personal love and hate
      arising from desires) I am bordering sentient soul.

      "Reasoning is one activity of the soul, and all
      remaining psychic experiences can be summed up in what
      we may call the inner experiences of love and hate.
      Rightly understood, these two conceptions - reasoning,
      and love and hate - comprise the entire inner soul
      life. Everything else denotes something that derives
      from without through the body or from within through
      the spirit." 4*

      1* - From Lecture 11 - "The Influence of Spiritual
      Beings on Man", (R. Steiner, 11 lectures, Berlin, Jan
      6-June 11 1908)

      2* Theosophy

      3* Georg Kuehlewind "Feeling and Knowing"

      4* Steiner - Wisdom of Man Soul & Spirit, Berlin
      1909-1911, Pg 70


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts@...>
      To: "Halbrich" <halbrich@...>
      Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:27 PM
      Subject: QUERY

      >
      > Hey Freddy, you're the guy teaching "Teosofía" in
      the seminario, so how
      > about looking at the conversation below as see if
      you can provide some
      > answers, especially, I mean, to the last question
      posed by me.
      > Thanks,
      > Frank
      >
      > > Frank:
      > > > I would say that we are always working out of
      the
      > > soul
      > > > (as you put it), and whether what we do is
      > > positive,
      > > > progessive or not depends on what the soul is
      > > like, to
      > > > what extent it has developed during life (or
      > > lives),
      > > > influenced by life's experiences and, yes, the
      > > spirit
      > > > (I). Love is wasted on the young? Yeah, because
      > > they
      > > > experience it most compellingly, but don't know
      > > what
      > > > the hell to do with it.
      >
      > Dottie:
      > > Hey Frank, thanks for this. It got me to
      > > contemplating the dilema I
      > > have had for years in placing the 'sentient soul,
      > > intellectual soul,
      > > and consciousness soul'. If you would help me out
      a
      > > second I would
      > > appreciate it.
      > >
      > > So, can it be said that within the Soul there are
      > > these three
      > > aspects so noted above? These all exist within the
      > > Soul sphere? And
      > > can it be understood that each of these unfold at
      > > the seven year
      > > periods or not? (Well, that's just an add on that
      > > occurred to me
      > > right now) So if these 3 exist within the Soul
      then
      > > I CAN see how
      > > you would say that we are always working out of
      > > Soul. And then my
      > > question would be about the 'spirit embryo'. From
      > > whence does this
      > > come?
      > >
      > > Well, first! please let me know if it can be
      > > understood that the
      > > three aspects of the Soul are within the Soul its
      > > very self? I know
      > > this might sound silly or even naive or even maybe
      > > 'how long have
      > > you been studying Steiner:) but I get it when I
      get
      > > it and not a
      > > damn day before! And I was thinking about this you
      > > know. I was
      > > thinking how one can speak on it and act like they
      > > know it but I
      > > haven't been able to operate in that manner. It's
      > > like if I don't
      > > experience it in my understanding through a direct
      > > experience, it
      > > really means nothing to me. And it seems somehow I
      > > have worked
      > > assbackwards in this way. I imagine it has
      something
      > > to do with me
      > > being a How To Know Higher Worlds girl versus a
      > > Philosophy of
      > > Freedom girl. But that's all good.
      >
      > Frank:
      > Firstly, I think we should see those three aspects
      as developing stages
      > in humanity and the individual; in humanity in
      general we are now in the
      > developing consciousness soul stage (which doesn't
      necessarily mean that
      > all are there). In the individual it should occur
      between 35 and 42
      > years of age or a bit older - if it occurs at all.
      Once the C.S. stage
      > has been reached, the previous stages are still
      contained within it in
      > higher stages of development than they originally
      were. Now if we relate
      > the spirit to the I, it is present all along working
      on the soul stages
      > in order to affect that development.
      >
      > My question is somewhat different: the soul
      qualities are thinking,
      > feeling and willing. This implies that it is the
      soul which thinks. How
      > so? Isn't it the I (spirit) as in "Philosophy of
      Spiritual Activity",
      > which thinks?
      >
      >
      >

      Frank Thomas Smith
      http://SouthernCrossReview.org

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    • dottie zold
      Freddy: ... Oh boy Frank! Okay, can we stop here for a second? Okay, so we are understanding that the I is the embryo that exists within the body of the Soul?
      Message 2 of 3 , May 2 4:38 PM
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        Freddy:

        RS:
        > "... But then we know - and you can read it in my
        > "Theosophy" - that united with these three members
        > (physical body, etheric body and soul body) is what
        > one generally comprises under "I". The "I" is
        > actually
        > a threefold being: sentient soul, intellectual or
        > mind
        > soul, consciousness soul, ... " 1*
        >
        > "The "I" dwells in the soul ... Within the "I" the
        > spirit is alive and active ...the spirit streams
        > into
        > the "I" taking it as its garment..." 2*

        Oh boy Frank!

        Okay, can we stop here for a second? Okay, so we are
        understanding that the I is the embryo that exists
        within the body of the Soul? And the spirit streams
        into the I taking it as its garment?

        Question: is this saying that the Spirit NOW resides
        in the I that is within the Soul? Or is it after
        it(damnit see if the I is in the Soul and it takes on
        the three qualities of sentient, intellectual,
        consciousness, is the I the Soul?) has been purified
        that it is birthed in man from above?

        Thanks for this Frank.
        d

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      • Frank Smith
        ... F: Not quite. I would say that what is meant by embryo is the spirit-self - or transformed astral body. ... F: Saying that it is in embryo form means
        Message 3 of 3 , May 3 6:24 AM
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          --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:


          >
          > RS:
          > > "... But then we know - and you can read it in my
          > > "Theosophy" - that united with these three members
          > > (physical body, etheric body and soul body) is
          > what
          > > one generally comprises under "I". The "I" is
          > > actually
          > > a threefold being: sentient soul, intellectual or
          > > mind
          > > soul, consciousness soul, ... " 1*
          > >
          > > "The "I" dwells in the soul ... Within the "I" the
          > > spirit is alive and active ...the spirit streams
          > > into
          > > the "I" taking it as its garment..." 2*
          >
          > Oh boy Frank!
          >
          > Okay, can we stop here for a second? Okay, so we are
          > understanding that the I is the embryo that exists
          > within the body of the Soul? And the spirit streams
          > into the I taking it as its garment?

          F: Not quite. I would say that what is meant by
          "embryo" is the spirit-self - or transformed astral
          body.

          >
          > Question: is this saying that the Spirit NOW resides
          > in the I that is within the Soul? Or is it after
          > it(damnit see if the I is in the Soul and it takes
          > on
          > the three qualities of sentient, intellectual,
          > consciousness, is the I the Soul?) has been purified
          > that it is birthed in man from above?

          F: Saying that it is in embryo form means (imo) that
          the spirit-self is there but not developed. The spirit
          in general, however, is always present in the the I -
          and everywhere for that matter.
          Frank



          Frank Thomas Smith
          http://SouthernCrossReview.org

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