Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Everybody hurts

Expand Messages
  • gaelman58
    One of my son s friends...a flaming liberal with heart...was visiting for the weekend. We were blathering about politics and I asked him a question that I had
    Message 1 of 18 , May 2 9:58 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with heart...was visiting
      for the weekend. We were blathering about politics and I asked him a
      question that I had sometimes asked other people...the business in the
      Declaration of Independence about the self-evident truth that all men
      are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully satisfied with
      anyone's response to the question...but I remember being really
      impressed with his response...without hesitation he said directly and
      sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for suffering...I
      remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I received a direct
      impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a better man than I
      am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
    • Frank Smith
      Whether your son s friend is correct or not I can t say. But I think that phrase refers to rights. Problem is - or was especially at that time when there was
      Message 2 of 18 , May 2 4:20 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Whether your son's friend is correct or not I can't
        say. But I think that phrase refers to rights. Problem
        is - or was especially at that time when there was
        slavery - that men become unequal *after* they are
        born. There's been a lot written about Jefferson and
        the apparent contradiction that although he was
        verbally anti-slavery, he owned slaves.
        Frank
        --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:

        > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with
        > heart...was visiting
        > for the weekend. We were blathering about politics
        > and I asked him a
        > question that I had sometimes asked other
        > people...the business in the
        > Declaration of Independence about the self-evident
        > truth that all men
        > are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully
        > satisfied with
        > anyone's response to the question...but I remember
        > being really
        > impressed with his response...without hesitation he
        > said directly and
        > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for
        > suffering...I
        > remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I
        > received a direct
        > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a
        > better man than I
        > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
        >
        >


        Frank Thomas Smith
        http://SouthernCrossReview.org

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • write3chairs
        ... the ... direct ... I hear an important message in here. Thank you for sharing this. Of course, those words all men are created equal betrayed themselves
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3 9:43 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

          > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with heart...was visiting
          > for the weekend. We were blathering about politics and I asked him a
          > question that I had sometimes asked other people...the business in
          the
          > Declaration of Independence about the self-evident truth that all men
          > are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully satisfied with
          > anyone's response to the question...but I remember being really
          > impressed with his response...without hesitation he said directly and
          > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for suffering...I
          > remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I received a
          direct
          > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a better man than I
          > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.

          I hear an important message in here. Thank you for sharing this. Of
          course, those words "all men are created equal" betrayed themselves in
          this country's origin and development. How long did it actually take
          before said equality became reality, for *some* men and then *all*
          women, where voting rights (among others) were concerned.

          I leave you with this, words from Mark Twain: "A man who carries a cat
          by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way."

          Cheers,
          Jennifer
        • gaelman58
          Frank: I m just finished ploughing through Theosophy again...stimulated somewhat by Dottie s recent questions regarding spirit and soul...so, one read and
          Message 4 of 18 , May 3 9:44 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Frank: I'm just finished ploughing through "Theosophy"
            again...stimulated somewhat by Dottie's recent questions regarding
            spirit and soul...so, one read and mulls...and questions arise in
            one's mind...on one occasion I was thinking about what Steiner had
            to say about karma and the soul's journey between death and
            rebirth...and of course, previous lives.

            And so Frank...do you think it's possible to have an understanding
            of slavery or any other aspect of history...wars, revolutions,
            plagues, and whatnot...without taking those spiritual considerations
            into account?

            I'll cut to the chase with a simple (at least in the wording)
            question...Given a certain historial social situation, what part do
            you think a man has in his becoming the legal property of another
            man?

            Careful, lad, there's probably some Critics eavesdropping....ta hell
            wi' em...go for it...regards, McGhee


            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
            <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
            >
            > Whether your son's friend is correct or not I can't
            > say. But I think that phrase refers to rights. Problem
            > is - or was especially at that time when there was
            > slavery - that men become unequal *after* they are
            > born. There's been a lot written about Jefferson and
            > the apparent contradiction that although he was
            > verbally anti-slavery, he owned slaves.
            > Frank
            > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:
            >
            > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with
            > > heart...was visiting
            > > for the weekend. We were blathering about politics
            > > and I asked him a
            > > question that I had sometimes asked other
            > > people...the business in the
            > > Declaration of Independence about the self-evident
            > > truth that all men
            > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully
            > > satisfied with
            > > anyone's response to the question...but I remember
            > > being really
            > > impressed with his response...without hesitation he
            > > said directly and
            > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for
            > > suffering...I
            > > remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I
            > > received a direct
            > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a
            > > better man than I
            > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > Frank Thomas Smith
            > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
          • Frank Smith
            ... I think it certainly helps to take them into consideration. ... I assume you re referring to karma. I don t know. ... No problemo. I engaged in a debate
            Message 5 of 18 , May 4 8:02 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:

              > Frank: I'm just finished ploughing through
              > "Theosophy"
              > again...stimulated somewhat by Dottie's recent
              > questions regarding
              > spirit and soul...so, one read and mulls...and
              > questions arise in
              > one's mind...on one occasion I was thinking about
              > what Steiner had
              > to say about karma and the soul's journey between
              > death and
              > rebirth...and of course, previous lives.
              >
              > And so Frank...do you think it's possible to have an
              > understanding
              > of slavery or any other aspect of history...wars,
              > revolutions,
              > plagues, and whatnot...without taking those
              > spiritual considerations
              > into account?

              I think it certainly helps to take them into
              consideration.


              >
              > I'll cut to the chase with a simple (at least in the
              > wording)
              > question...Given a certain historial social
              > situation, what part do
              > you think a man has in his becoming the legal
              > property of another
              > man?

              I assume you're referring to karma. I don't know.


              >
              > Careful, lad, there's probably some Critics
              > eavesdropping....ta hell
              > wi' em...go for it...regards, McGhee
              >
              No problemo. I engaged in a debate with Peter S. a
              coupla years ago about this. He claimed that Jefferson
              was racist by the fact of being a slave owner. My
              point was, and is, that one must take the historical
              cultural period into consideration. Jefferson was very
              outspoken against slavery; that he owned them was part
              of the mileau of the period. He even said that he
              didn't free them because they would be picked up by
              others and treated badly. Anyway, by the same token,
              we could say that the Greek philosophers were
              pedophiles; today they would be criminals, then it was
              the norm.
              Frank



              >
              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank
              > Smith
              > <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Whether your son's friend is correct or not I
              > can't
              > > say. But I think that phrase refers to rights.
              > Problem
              > > is - or was especially at that time when there was
              > > slavery - that men become unequal *after* they are
              > > born. There's been a lot written about Jefferson
              > and
              > > the apparent contradiction that although he was
              > > verbally anti-slavery, he owned slaves.
              > > Frank
              > > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with
              > > > heart...was visiting
              > > > for the weekend. We were blathering about
              > politics
              > > > and I asked him a
              > > > question that I had sometimes asked other
              > > > people...the business in the
              > > > Declaration of Independence about the
              > self-evident
              > > > truth that all men
              > > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being
              > fully
              > > > satisfied with
              > > > anyone's response to the question...but I
              > remember
              > > > being really
              > > > impressed with his response...without hesitation
              > he
              > > > said directly and
              > > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity
              > for
              > > > suffering...I
              > > > remember that at that moment looking into his
              > eyes I
              > > > received a direct
              > > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're
              > a
              > > > better man than I
              > > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Frank Thomas Smith
              > > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
              > protection around
              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              Frank Thomas Smith
              http://SouthernCrossReview.org



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              The fish are biting.
              Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
              http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
            • gaelman58
              ... I was referring to karma.... and I don t know either...but owing to what I ve read indicated by Steiner I believe that it does. So saying, I would also
              Message 6 of 18 , May 4 10:42 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
                <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Frank: I'm just finished ploughing through
                > > "Theosophy"
                > > again...stimulated somewhat by Dottie's recent
                > > questions regarding
                > > spirit and soul...so, one read and mulls...and
                > > questions arise in
                > > one's mind...on one occasion I was thinking about
                > > what Steiner had
                > > to say about karma and the soul's journey between
                > > death and
                > > rebirth...and of course, previous lives.
                > >
                > > And so Frank...do you think it's possible to have an
                > > understanding
                > > of slavery or any other aspect of history...wars,
                > > revolutions,
                > > plagues, and whatnot...without taking those
                > > spiritual considerations
                > > into account?
                >
                > I think it certainly helps to take them into
                > consideration.
                >
                >
                > >
                > > I'll cut to the chase with a simple (at least in the
                > > wording)
                > > question...Given a certain historial social
                > > situation, what part do
                > > you think a man has in his becoming the legal
                > > property of another
                > > man?
                >
                > I assume you're referring to karma. I don't know.

                I was referring to karma.... and I don't know either...but owing to
                what I've read indicated by Steiner I believe that it does. So
                saying, I would also understand that I leave myself open to
                criticism from those with their ideological heads up their ass for
                obliquely "giving a justification" for slavery...something that some
                (not all) of the Critics do with respect to Steiner.
                The bandit (Eli Wallach) says to the paladin-protector (Yul Brenner)
                in "Magnificent Seven" regarding his robbing of the poor peons..."If
                God did want them shorn, he would not have made them sheep"...well,
                it might have been their karma that they were to undergo a periodic
                shearing...but the peons find out they are free men and don't have
                to submit to it.
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Careful, lad, there's probably some Critics
                > > eavesdropping....ta hell
                > > wi' em...go for it...regards, McGhee
                > >
                > No problemo. I engaged in a debate with Peter S. a
                > coupla years ago about this. He claimed that Jefferson
                > was racist by the fact of being a slave owner. My
                > point was, and is, that one must take the historical
                > cultural period into consideration. Jefferson was very
                > outspoken against slavery; that he owned them was part
                > of the mileau of the period. He even said that he
                > didn't free them because they would be picked up by
                > others and treated badly. Anyway, by the same token,
                > we could say that the Greek philosophers were
                > pedophiles; today they would be criminals, then it was
                > the norm.
                > Frank

                Frank: A consideration...from Steiner in talking about love and
                sex..."Through its materialism, evolution in our time is veering not
                only toward the unintelligent and illogical but even toward the
                scandalous, when love is dragged into such close association with
                what is covered by the term "sexuality"...so, I'm inclined to take
                with a grain of salt anything an historian has to say about
                pedophilia and Greek philosophers...or anything the man Peter S. has
                to say about racism and Jefferson....regards, McGhee
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank
                > > Smith
                > > <eltrigal78@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Whether your son's friend is correct or not I
                > > can't
                > > > say. But I think that phrase refers to rights.
                > > Problem
                > > > is - or was especially at that time when there was
                > > > slavery - that men become unequal *after* they are
                > > > born. There's been a lot written about Jefferson
                > > and
                > > > the apparent contradiction that although he was
                > > > verbally anti-slavery, he owned slaves.
                > > > Frank
                > > > --- gaelman58 <gaelman58@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with
                > > > > heart...was visiting
                > > > > for the weekend. We were blathering about
                > > politics
                > > > > and I asked him a
                > > > > question that I had sometimes asked other
                > > > > people...the business in the
                > > > > Declaration of Independence about the
                > > self-evident
                > > > > truth that all men
                > > > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being
                > > fully
                > > > > satisfied with
                > > > > anyone's response to the question...but I
                > > remember
                > > > > being really
                > > > > impressed with his response...without hesitation
                > > he
                > > > > said directly and
                > > > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity
                > > for
                > > > > suffering...I
                > > > > remember that at that moment looking into his
                > > eyes I
                > > > > received a direct
                > > > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're
                > > a
                > > > > better man than I
                > > > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Frank Thomas Smith
                > > > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
                > > >
                > > > __________________________________________________
                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                > > protection around
                > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > Frank Thomas Smith
                > http://SouthernCrossReview.org
                >
                >
                >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                _______________
                > The fish are biting.
                > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
                > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
                >
              • gaelman58
                ... visiting ... him a ... in ... all men ... with ... directly and ... than I ... Of ... themselves in ... take ... cat ... Well Jennifer, I think what
                Message 7 of 18 , May 4 10:57 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                  <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                  >
                  > > One of my son's friends...a flaming liberal with heart...was
                  visiting
                  > > for the weekend. We were blathering about politics and I asked
                  him a
                  > > question that I had sometimes asked other people...the business
                  in
                  > the
                  > > Declaration of Independence about the self-evident truth that
                  all men
                  > > are created equal. I can't recall ever being fully satisfied
                  with
                  > > anyone's response to the question...but I remember being really
                  > > impressed with his response...without hesitation he said
                  directly and
                  > > sincerely that men are equal in their capacity for suffering...I
                  > > remember that at that moment looking into his eyes I received a
                  > direct
                  > > impression of the young man's humanity..."you're a better man
                  than I
                  > > am Gunga Din"...regards, G.
                  >
                  > I hear an important message in here. Thank you for sharing this.
                  Of
                  > course, those words "all men are created equal" betrayed
                  themselves in
                  > this country's origin and development. How long did it actually
                  take
                  > before said equality became reality, for *some* men and then *all*
                  > women, where voting rights (among others) were concerned.
                  >
                  > I leave you with this, words from Mark Twain: "A man who carries a
                  cat
                  > by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way."
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Jennifer
                  >

                  Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
                  remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to do
                  with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
                  that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true about
                  everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.

                  On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
                  these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained me
                  by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to carry
                  him by the tail?...:)...McCann
                • write3chairs
                  ... And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The golden thread of life.
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 6 9:12 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                    > Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
                    > remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to do
                    > with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
                    > that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true about
                    > everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.

                    And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How
                    obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The
                    golden thread of life. The eternal soul is connected to the finite
                    body by that force called life. We live. And yes, we hurt. If not for
                    the life within us, we wouldn't hurt or feel joy either. It is the
                    life force that connects us, not the Internet. ;)

                    > On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
                    > these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained me
                    > by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to carry
                    > him by the tail?...:)

                    I cannot say, but a word of caution to the kids reading here: don't
                    try this at home. :)

                    Cheers,
                    Jennifer

                    > ...McCann
                  • gaelman58
                    ... do ... about ... for ... Sometimes, it seems to me, Jennifer....there s not much to be said for the thread of life ...like in the prayer, for
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 6 4:44 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                      <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                      >
                      > > Well Jennifer, I think what impressed me about the young man's
                      > > remark was its reference to our existential reality...having to
                      do
                      > > with a soul/spiritual reality I hadn't thought about...something
                      > > that transcends race, gender, beliefs, etc...something true
                      about
                      > > everybody...yeah, everybody hurts.
                      >
                      > And something else, everybody is alive! What, you might ask. How
                      > obvious. Yes, but think of it. What separates us from death? The
                      > golden thread of life. The eternal soul is connected to the finite
                      > body by that force called life. We live. And yes, we hurt. If not
                      for
                      > the life within us, we wouldn't hurt or feel joy either. It is the
                      > life force that connects us, not the Internet. ;)

                      Sometimes, it seems to me, Jennifer....there's not much to be said
                      for the "thread of life"...like in the prayer, for instance,..." I
                      thank thee, O Heaven, that I have been spared what has happened to
                      those poor souls in that terrible situation yonder"...for "terrible
                      situations" do arise...and in those situations a reasonable person
                      might not choose life...and whereas one can simply leave the
                      Internet, from my reading one is committing a great karmic no-no in
                      choosing to leave life.
                      >
                      > > On the lighter side...I've been boarding my oldest son's cat lo
                      > > these many years...I've trained him by being me and he's trained
                      me
                      > > by being him...what is it I'm going to learn if I decide to
                      carry
                      > > him by the tail?...:)
                      >
                      > I cannot say, but a word of caution to the kids reading here:
                      don't
                      > try this at home. :)
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Jennifer

                      Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
                      slant on it than Twain....
                      >
                      > > ...McCann
                      >
                    • write3chairs
                      ... McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one about marching to a
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8 10:45 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                        > Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
                        > slant on it than Twain....

                        McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a
                        project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one
                        about marching to a different drummer). But look at this one I found as
                        well.

                        "A kitten is so flexible that she is almost double; the hind parts are
                        equivalent to another kitten with which the forepart plays. She does
                        not discover that her tail belongs to her until you tread on it."

                        Had to come and share that with you all. :)

                        More later,
                        Jennifer
                      • gaelman58
                        ... Jennifer: Here s my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son s cat who hangs out here...he s very well behaved when I m around...not because he s anything
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 9 10:02 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                          <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                          >
                          > > Apparently Jennifer, with your "I cannot say" you have a better
                          > > slant on it than Twain....
                          >
                          > McCann, I truly appreciate the dialogue! Today I am working on a
                          > project and had to look up a quotation by Henry David Thoreau (the one
                          > about marching to a different drummer). But look at this one I found as
                          > well.
                          >
                          > "A kitten is so flexible that she is almost double; the hind parts are
                          > equivalent to another kitten with which the forepart plays. She does
                          > not discover that her tail belongs to her until you tread on it."
                          >
                          > Had to come and share that with you all. :)
                          >
                          > More later,
                          > Jennifer
                          >

                          Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's cat who
                          hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not because
                          he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul" must
                          have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                          reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann
                        • write3chairs
                          ... You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago: http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer. Cheers,
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 11 9:05 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                            > Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's cat who
                            > hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not because
                            > he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul" must
                            > have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                            > reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann

                            You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago:
                            http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv
                            Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer.

                            Cheers,
                            Jennifer
                          • gaelman58
                            ... cat who ... because ... must ... Jennifer: I ve read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you any idea why that s the case? Someone once mentioned
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 11 9:27 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                              <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                              >
                              > > Jennifer: Here's my uninformed opinion about Fergus, my son's
                              cat who
                              > > hangs out here...he's very well behaved when I'm around...not
                              because
                              > > he's anything but a cat..but because, well, the "cat group soul"
                              must
                              > > have an interest in it. If by some magical act I suddenly become
                              > > reduced to about three inches in height...I'm a meal...McCann
                              >
                              > You reminded me of a photo I posted almost two years ago:
                              > http://tinyurl.com/2wcuhv
                              > Please introduce Fergus to Khalil, who guards my computer.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Jennifer
                              >

                              Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                              any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                              about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                            • dottie zold
                              Hey Everyone, So, whew, Sophia has just been taken by the Family and Child Services here in Los Angeles due to a technicallity from Michigan on a case that was
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 11 11:57 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hey Everyone,

                                So, whew, Sophia has just been taken by the Family and
                                Child Services here in Los Angeles due to a
                                technicallity from Michigan on a case that was won on
                                the last day of court, but Miriam failed to show due
                                to her 3 month old baby Natalia dying from inopperable
                                cancer. She called to let them know and Eleazar showed
                                up but his id had expired and they refused to allow
                                him to be in court on her behalf.

                                Two case workers from two different counties were
                                working on the case because Miriam had moved from the
                                place where the original complaint began. These two
                                case workers had two very different opinions of Miriam
                                and the hardernose one one the final judgement. The
                                second one appealed and the judge agreed with her
                                points and Sophia the case was then to be closed.
                                Miriam saw the police cars outside her house and
                                thought they were coming to take Sophia when actually
                                we have just found out they came to pick Miriam up for
                                court to hear the judges' ruling. She saw the police,
                                did not answer the door, and then fled here to Los
                                Angeles, not wanting Sophia to be in foster care.

                                Miriam has no family there and is a product of the
                                system its very self. She has a job here that she
                                attends every day and the child is in art class twice
                                a week and also has child care. Miriam also now lives
                                in a two bedroom house, three actually, has a
                                Suburban, going for driving lessons, and is doing
                                extremely well with the support here in our community.


                                Los Angeles Child Care services says they can do no
                                thing as the child has to be expedited back to
                                Michigan. I have spoken with the hardnosed case worker
                                and have explained this and also the wishes that we
                                find a solution that does not have this child in the
                                system due to a technicality. Those of you who have
                                followed this story know that Miriam was picked up
                                just before we got her a job, for 'intent for
                                prostitution'. This is going to be used against her
                                but we have a pretty strong point that once this
                                'intent' was issued the community rallied around her
                                to get her a job and to get her and the family
                                stabalized. They have been so and it has been truly a
                                joy to be around them and the child.

                                So, Wayne County is where the case originated and I am
                                wondering if there is anyone that can help us on that
                                end with the Referree who will be hearing the case?
                                We'd like to get the letters of support as well as the
                                proof of work and so forth to him with a face to face
                                person versus faxing and so forth. My hope is that
                                they will want to find a solution beings it was a
                                technicality in the first place and that she is doing
                                very well here and Detroit has nothing to offer her in
                                Lansing.

                                If anyone is able to work from that end I say it would
                                be a good deed as we do really have a young lady who
                                has turned her life fully around.

                                Thanks,
                                Dottie



                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
                                http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
                              • dottie zold
                                Hey Friends, Our study group with Adriana Koulias will start this Sunday, May 13th, at 3pm Los Angeles time. You will need to have downloaded Skype which can
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 11 2:04 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey Friends,

                                  Our study group with Adriana Koulias will start this
                                  Sunday, May 13th, at 3pm Los Angeles time. You will
                                  need to have downloaded Skype which can be found on
                                  the website www.anthroposophia.org One link will say
                                  'about Skype' click on this and you will then see a
                                  link to 'download' Skype. This will take you to the
                                  homepage of Skype and you then click on the link that
                                  says 'download now'. This will take about five
                                  minutes.


                                  In order to participate in the interactive version I
                                  will need you to then send me your name so I can 'add'
                                  you into the conversation when it is taking place on
                                  Sunday. You can email me through this email address:
                                  dottie@...


                                  To join the Study Group where you can read the first
                                  lectures please make sure you have joined the Study
                                  Group at the top of the homepage of
                                  www.anthroposophia.org I am sorry to say that you will
                                  have to join again as all the names were lost when we
                                  were having our problems getting started. Those who
                                  have signed in during the last week will not have to
                                  do this again. If you rejoin and it says 'user name
                                  already exists' this means you are a member already.
                                  (Originally we had over 100 people join and right now
                                  we have 10 people signed in as having joined. So most
                                  of you will have to rejoin.) And the Forum is the
                                  place where further questions can be discussed in
                                  relations to the Study Group and the Extension Work
                                  groups. You will have to join this as well at the top
                                  of the home page of anthroposophia.org.


                                  For the Extension Working groups the times will be:

                                  Living the Foundation Stone Meditation with Daniel
                                  Bittleston: 10:00 a.m. Sundays starting May 20th. This
                                  will be a weekly meeting.

                                  'We shall be studying the FSM line by line, to clarify
                                  and deepen understanding. For example: What is our
                                  experience of our limbs carrying us into the ocean
                                  being of spirit?'


                                  A Year of Transformation with Dottie Zold: Monday
                                  evenings starting 5/14 at 7:00 p.m. This will be a
                                  weekly meeting. 'We shall begin with a conversation
                                  about the Daily Exercises in How To Know Higher Worlds
                                  and how they work to aid us on our path of initiation
                                  .'

                                  The first lecture can be found once you sign up for
                                  the Study Group at the top of our homepage at
                                  anthroposophia.org. Once in you will click the link
                                  that says 'study group' (first group) and click next
                                  each time at the bottom of the page. You may also
                                  download it in a pdf format by clicking on one of the
                                  little three buttons to the right of the article. If
                                  you need any help please email me.


                                  Looking forward to seeing you all on Sunday.


                                  All good things,

                                  Dottie




                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________Need a vacation? Get great deals
                                  to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
                                  http://travel.yahoo.com/
                                • write3chairs
                                  ... I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they command attention,
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 14 10:33 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:

                                    > Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                                    > any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                                    > about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann

                                    I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it
                                    sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they
                                    command attention, they demand it! Unlike us humans, of course.

                                    Regards back,
                                    Jennifer
                                  • laquerencia33@sbcglobal.net
                                    From what I saw, I figure the ashram gurus just didn t want any competition. Wonder what ever happened to those guys after they left the US- Muktananda,
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 14 11:14 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      From what I saw, I figure the ashram gurus just didn't want any
                                      competition. Wonder what ever happened to those guys after they left the
                                      US- Muktananda, Rashineesh etc. Anyone know?

                                      Deborah


                                      of On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:33:48 -0500, write3chairs
                                      <write3chairs@...> wrote:

                                      > I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                                      >> any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                                      >> about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                                    • gaelman58
                                      ... Yes Jennifer, I ve been on an ashram...back in the days when I was an undercover intelligence agent for the Inquisitorial Branch of the Vatican I was given
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 14 2:14 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                                        <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58" wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Jennifer: I've read that cats are banned on ashrams. Have you
                                        > > any idea why that's the case? Someone once mentioned something
                                        > > about "sucking" energy away from people...regards, McCann
                                        >
                                        > I have no idea, have never experienced an ashram (have you?), but it
                                        > sure makes sense because cats are just that way. Not only do they
                                        > command attention, they demand it! Unlike us humans, of course.
                                        >
                                        > Regards back,
                                        > Jennifer
                                        >

                                        Yes Jennifer, I've been on an ashram...back in the days when I was an
                                        undercover intelligence agent for the Inquisitorial Branch of the
                                        Vatican I was given the mission of penetrating a certain Indian Occult
                                        Brotherhood north of Calcutta...I succeeded but screwed things up when
                                        I had a brief torrid affair with the leader's grandmother...seems I
                                        babbled in my sleep. I escaped by shaving my head, wearing rags,
                                        pretending to be a mute and kicking at cats whenever I ran across
                                        them...a local ashram took me in....I left when the stringent celibacy
                                        rules got to me....McCann
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.