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AT irony (was Hole irony)

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  • Frank Smith
    It has been suggested that the WC be ignored, so it would dry up. Yet here at AT, except for Dottie s Lazarus, the only topic seems to be WC. Frank Frank
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 19, 2007
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      It has been suggested that the WC be ignored, so it
      would dry up. Yet here at AT, except for Dottie's
      Lazarus, the only topic seems to be WC.
      Frank

      Frank Thomas Smith
      http://SouthernCrossReview.org



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    • Tarjei Straume
      ... I do agree it s ironic, but that s sort of double-ironic coming from you. You haven t exactly ignored the unmentionable place yourself; you ve been an
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 19, 2007
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        Frank, you wrote:

        >It has been suggested that the WC be ignored, so it would dry up.
        >Yet here at AT, except for Dottie's Lazarus, the only topic seems to be WC.

        I do agree it's ironic, but that's sort of double-ironic coming from
        you. You haven't exactly ignored the unmentionable place yourself;
        you've been an active contributor there! The idea of ignoring that
        place was based upon the conclusion that everything we post to
        e-groups and websites, helps to increase traffic to those sites via
        search engines by us contributing to the volumes of text, especially
        the archives that are all re-published on the PLANS website. This
        means that every time we write a sentence containing words or phrases
        like "Rudolf Steiner", "anthroposophy", "Waldorf" etc. and post it to
        the Hole, the more unsuspecting third parties are led directly to the
        PLANS website when they seek out those search words through Google and so on.

        With that in mind, if the Hole is to be discussed at all, it's better
        to discuss it in a forum not attached to the PLANS website imho,
        preferably an anthroposophical forum or a circus like this one, which
        is occupied by anthro-warriors. That will lead the unsuspecting
        surfers to anthro-propaganda instead of hole-propaganda.

        I regret that I didn't realize this until I had contributed with a
        total of ten months of posts to the Hole - in 1999 and 2001. Never
        again, especially after DD censored me by coming up with an ad hom
        warning for calling a PS statement a lie. If you can't call a
        statement or opinion by its proper name, forget it. So I unsubbed in
        protest, declaring that I was through with that place. And I'm a man
        of my word. I don't understand those who crawl back there begging for
        more time and time again after being censored once. It's bound to
        make them feel that their smelly forum is very important and
        prestigious. Is that how one dries them up?

        Tarjei
      • dottie zold
        One more time for the English speaking people:) whew. Well, I think it s good for those that can stand the meanspiritedness on that list to debate the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 19, 2007
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          One more time for the English speaking people:) whew.


          Well, I think it's good for those that can stand the
          meanspiritedness on that list to debate the subjects,
          but not past the point of debating into the far reaches of what ends
          up to be idiocy trying to pass for logic on that list. Otherwise we
          have this stupidity acting as if its true, with Steiner students
          debating it as if it might make some sense to normal rational
          thinking people. It does not make sense to normal rational people
          who are not out on the fringe of Science is King thinking. Frank
          with his knowledge of the German language has really helped to keep
          Staudenmaier in check. And in a gentlemanly way I must say.

          It just hit me when reading once again Staudenmaier
          trying to say that the higher ups in Germany's Hitler
          movement, were members of Anthroposophy: those three mentioned
          were not anthropososphits in the higher ups of the
          nazi movemet and not matter how many times he says it
          he can not show that to be true. And thanks be to God
          that he is looking a little foolish mentioning these
          things again. It might pass for knowledge in The Cult
          of Peter but that would be about it. One look at the
          works of Steiner and what they hope to accomplish, one
          would have to decide if Peter's translation of works
          is correct or Franks, or Detlefs or whomever it would
          be that would take him to task for his polemics.

          I'm wondering if it is considered that anyone who reads a book by
          Steiner, or
          attended(s) a lecture by him or any of his students, this
          would mean they were, or are, an
          Anthroposophist? If so this would make Staudenamier,
          by this type of logic, an Anthroposophist as well: he
          too could be considered an Anthroposphist, just a notsohappy one.

          I wonder when he will think to stop this silliness.

          Best,
          Dottie
        • Frank Smith
          ... I didn t intend it as a criticism of the fact that WC is discussed so much here; rather pointing out a phenomenon that there don t seem to be other, more
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 20, 2007
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            --- Tarjei Straume <straume@...> wrote:

            > Frank, you wrote:
            >
            > >It has been suggested that the WC be ignored, so it
            > would dry up.
            > >Yet here at AT, except for Dottie's Lazarus, the
            > only topic seems to be WC.
            >
            > I do agree it's ironic, but that's sort of
            > double-ironic coming from
            > you. You haven't exactly ignored the unmentionable
            > place yourself;
            > you've been an active contributor there!

            I didn't intend it as a criticism of the fact that WC
            is discussed so much here; rather pointing out a
            phenomenon that there don't seem to be other, more
            important themes out there.

            The idea of
            > ignoring that
            > place was based upon the conclusion that everything
            > we post to
            > e-groups and websites, helps to increase traffic to
            > those sites via
            > search engines by us contributing to the volumes of
            > text, especially
            > the archives that are all re-published on the PLANS
            > website. This
            > means that every time we write a sentence containing
            > words or phrases
            > like "Rudolf Steiner", "anthroposophy", "Waldorf"
            > etc. and post it to
            > the Hole, the more unsuspecting third parties are
            > led directly to the
            > PLANS website when they seek out those search words
            > through Google and so on.

            The other side of the question is that without
            rebuttal any number of untruths and slanders are left
            unanswered. I don't know which attitude is more
            correct, but personally I often can't resist rebutting
            Peter. S., even without a motive.

            >
            > With that in mind, if the Hole is to be discussed at
            > all, it's better
            > to discuss it in a forum not attached to the PLANS
            > website imho,
            > preferably an anthroposophical forum or a circus
            > like this one, which
            > is occupied by anthro-warriors. That will lead the
            > unsuspecting
            > surfers to anthro-propaganda instead of
            > hole-propaganda.

            Better still would be no propaganda; needing
            propaganda indicates that your hold on truth could be
            weak.

            >
            > I regret that I didn't realize this until I had
            > contributed with a
            > total of ten months of posts to the Hole - in 1999
            > and 2001. Never
            > again, especially after DD censored me by coming up
            > with an ad hom
            > warning for calling a PS statement a lie. If you
            > can't call a
            > statement or opinion by its proper name, forget it.
            > So I unsubbed in
            > protest, declaring that I was through with that
            > place. And I'm a man
            > of my word. I don't understand those who crawl back
            > there begging for
            > more time and time again after being censored once.
            > It's bound to
            > make them feel that their smelly forum is very
            > important and
            > prestigious. Is that how one dries them up?

            Who "crawled back begging for more time"? I've been
            censured a few times and ignore it.

            Frank


            Frank Thomas Smith
            http://SouthernCrossReview.org



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          • Tarjei Straume
            ... No propaganda in a public forum at war with some Unthinkable Obscene Propaganda Machine? On the contrary, my dear Frank, we need a Propaganda Department
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 20, 2007
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              Frank wrote:

              >Better still would be no propaganda; needing propaganda indicates
              >that your hold on truth could be weak.

              No propaganda in a public forum at war with some Unthinkable Obscene
              Propaganda Machine? On the contrary, my dear Frank, we need a
              Propaganda Department here! It doesn't mean your hold on truth is
              weak, it simply means that your truth needs to be hammered
              ceaselessly and tirelessly against the enemy - truth and love, of
              course. Love is also propaganda. Kissing and hugging is propaganda.

              Benjamin Tucker and Bernard Shaw were excellent propagandists, we can
              learn a lot from them. And how can we have a Counter Intelligence
              Division with no propaganda to go with it? In addition, our Counter
              Intelligence Division should also dispatch disinformation - targeted,
              of course, not against the general public or fellow anthros, but the
              Hole Dwellers and their shadowy allies, the Agents of the Abyss and
              so on. I believe that's what some of our trolls have been trying to
              do, like that Theodor character when he "leaked" the info about the
              Waldorf Basement Children. That's counter-intelligence disinformation
              propaganda in a nutshell, Frank. And this is why the Propaganda
              Department and the AT Circus should always cooperate very closely.
              Clandestine disinformation campaigns, overt propaganda, stealth,
              cloak-and-dagger, moles, spies, etc. are all part of the equation.
              Take a look at what's been happening at Wikipedia during the last
              months, where Hole Dwellers Pete & Di have assaulted entries and
              articles about anthroposophy and endeavored to replace it with
              propaganda, then there are all kinds of players involved and we don't
              know who's who because it's cloak-and-dagger with user names and
              anonymities and u name it - Wikipedia has become a battle field for
              propagandists. And you're part of the stealth bombing of the Hole,
              which looks like D-Day when the allies were attacking German Nazi
              strongholds on the French coast. As for myself, I've had nothing to
              do with the Battle of Wikipedia or the present Battle of the Hole;
              I'm only an observer & war correspondent, contributing with a little
              propaganda here at Anthroposophy Tomorrow.

              I do agree that it's desirable to have no propaganda, but in order to
              eliminate propaganda and counter-intelligence and stealth bombing and
              cloak-and-dagger and trolling and disinformation, we'll need to be at
              peace. And there's no peace in sight until the Hole is plugged -
              permanently. Dottie is working overtime on that in the Love
              Department. When all the Hole Souls are redeemed through love, we'll
              have peace, and there will be no more propaganda.

              Cheers,

              Tarjei
            • Frank Smith
              ... Famous last words. (Sound like a Norwegian Marx.) A problem with propaganda is that it involves disinformation. I was involved a bit in that during the
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 21, 2007
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                --- Tarjei Straume <straume@...> wrote:

                > I do agree that it's desirable to have no
                > propaganda, but in order to
                > eliminate propaganda and counter-intelligence and
                > stealth bombing and
                > cloak-and-dagger and trolling and disinformation,
                > we'll need to be at
                > peace. And there's no peace in sight until the Hole
                > is plugged -
                > permanently. Dottie is working overtime on that in
                > the Love
                > Department. When all the Hole Souls are redeemed
                > through love, we'll
                > have peace, and there will be no more propaganda.

                Famous last words. (Sound like a Norwegian Marx.) A
                problem with propaganda is that it involves
                disinformation. I was involved a bit in that during
                the cold war days, and I found that the disinformants
                often started to believe their own bullshit. As to the
                Love Ministry: I assume it will employ A_T-speak, aka
                anthro-babble? In that case I'd prefer to be a mere
                consultant.
                Frank



                Frank Thomas Smith
                http://SouthernCrossReview.org



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              • Tarjei Straume
                ... That s it, Frank! The AT Disinformation Office is yours! Why didn t you tell us this before? ... That s why we need a disinformant who is immune to such a
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 21, 2007
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                  Frank, you wrote:

                  >A problem with propaganda is that it involves disinformation. I was
                  >involved a bit in that during the cold war days,

                  That's it, Frank! The AT Disinformation Office is yours! Why didn't
                  you tell us this before?

                  >and I found that the disinformants often started to believe their
                  >own bullshit.

                  That's why we need a disinformant who is immune to such a disease.
                  And the only person strong enough, able enough, brave enough, and
                  wise and clever as a fox at the same time, that's you, Frank! Don't
                  ask what Anthroposophy Tomorrow can do for you, but what you can do
                  for Anthroposophy Tomorrow!

                  >As to the Love Ministry: I assume it will employ A_T-speak, aka
                  >anthro-babble?

                  Good idea. We need to develop some codes in disguise. Something like
                  if you write, "The Doctor privately mentioned that...." we know
                  you're about to propose a piece of disinformation for the Hole-moles.
                  And "I love the Doctor" means "Anthro-Mission Accomplished" and so
                  on. You'll think of something much better, of course, something that
                  won't be recognized by enemy agents.

                  >In that case I'd prefer to be a mere consultant.

                  Consultant is excellent.

                  Tarjei
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