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Valentin Tomberg and the Marys

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  • dottie zold
    Dear Joel, I address this to you not knowing whether or not you are able to help me understand this matter of the Shekinah incarnating at the turning point of
    Message 1 of 131 , Oct 5, 2006
      Dear Joel,

      I address this to you not knowing whether or not you
      are able to help me understand this matter of the
      Shekinah incarnating at the turning point of time,
      that Valentin speaks of and why he does so. If you are
      unable maybe there is someone else who has a thought
      as to this he says below:

      " Similarly, the Messiah, whom many have seen and met
      during the last twenty centuries, is no more only a
      spirit who 'descendes and reascends through all the
      heavens in order to exercise, with all the prophets
      who are to be found, the universal function of
      salvation', but rather is a human person who eixted at
      the bosom of the visible community of Israel twenty
      centuries ago. For just as the Word became flesh in
      Jesus Christ, so did the BATH KOL, the 'Daughter of
      the Voice', become flesh in Mary-Sophia. The Church
      worships her as the Virgin, as the Mother and as the
      celestial Queen, corresponding to the Mother, Daughter
      and the 'Virgin of Israel' of the Cabala, and to the
      Sophianic Trinity - Mother, Daughter and Holy Soul -
      mentioned above."


      Now, this is a very huge problem in this thinking that
      I am thinking is what I experience is amiss in Mr.
      Powell's work on the TrinoSophia. I just spoke with my
      Rabbi and asked him if the Jews held this as a
      possibility 'that the Bat Kol would incarnate into an
      individual person' and he said it was not possible as
      an 'entity, a being' that would incarnate into a human

      If Valentin means that this aspect of God was found in
      Mary that would be one thing, because it is understood
      that just as the Shekinah can be made understood to
      prophets and other righteous people so could the Bat
      Kol be understood and then 'spoken' forth in an
      understanding, but to state that this Bat Kol
      'incarnated' into Mary, the one called the Virgin of
      the second Jesus boy born, is askew of what I
      understand the truth to be in my studies and in Hebrew

      Now, if he means she was able to speak forth a thing
      that is something all together different than saying
      'the Bat Kol incarnated' as the Mary.

      And what is really bothersome to me, unless he has
      stated this in other places and has given forth how he
      has come to this, is that there are no traces to show
      such a thing in any ancient teaching that I am aware
      of. Now, this is where it gets a little tricky. It
      gets a little tricky in that it is so easy to say 'the
      Bat Kol incarnated into the Mary' and have lots and
      lots of people say 'YES! that is what I think too!
      Well, it would be really really hard for me to say
      such a thing actually with the study I have done. It
      would actually requires that I do a pretzel twist in
      my thinking. There is no other place that thought
      leads to as far as I can see. I am still trying to
      figure out how he got to that place. I can surmise a
      few things but those things are really not something
      to just say without clearly stating how one came to

      Either way, it comes to me that Valentin is setting
      soemthing straight. And his students are lost in what
      he said here while on earth and it seems they are not
      sensing into what he is saying now. It is in the
      future things he is sharing, that one can hear him
      speak to clear things and insights, not of the things
      his students study from his past work. It seems he has
      moved on.

      All good things,

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    • val2160
      Mysterious, Glowing Clouds Appear Across America s Night Skies * By Alexis Madrigal [Email Author]
      Message 131 of 131 , Aug 25 9:11 AM

        Mysterious, Glowing Clouds Appear Across America's Night Skies


        Mysterious, glowing clouds previously seen almost exclusively in Earth's polar regions have appeared in the skies over the United States and Europe over the past several days.

        Photographers and other sky watchers in Omaha, Paris, Seattle, and other locations have run outside to capture images of what scientists call noctilucent ("night shining") clouds. Formed by ice literally at the boundary where the earth's atmosphere meets space 50 miles up, they shine because they are so high that they remain lit by the sun even after our star is below the horizon.

        The clouds might be beautiful, but they could portend global changes caused by global warming. Noctilucent clouds are a fundamentally new phenomenon in the temperate mid-latitude sky, and it's not clear why they've migrated down from the poles. Or why, over the last 25 years, more of them are appearing in the polar regions, too, and shining more brightly.

        "That's a real concern and question," said James Russell, an atmospheric scientist at Hampton University and the principal investigator of an ongoing NASA satellite mission to study the clouds. "Why are they getting more numerous? Why are they getting brighter? Why are they appearing at lower latitudes?"

        Nobody knows for sure, but most of the answers seem to point to human-caused global atmospheric change.

        Noctilucent clouds were first observed in 1885 by an amateur astronomer. No observations of anything resembling noctilucent clouds before that time has ever been found. There is no lack of observations of other phenomena in the sky, so atmospheric scientists are fairly sure that the phenomenon is recent, although they are not sure why.

        Over the last 125 years, scientists have learned how the clouds form. At temperatures around minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, dust blowing up from below or falling into the atmosphere from space provides a resting spot for water vapor to condense and freeze. Right now, during the northern hemisphere's summer, the atmosphere is heating up and expanding. At the outside edge of the atmosphere, that actually means that it's getting colder because it's pushed farther out into space.

        It's not hard to see how a warming Earth could change those dynamics: as the globe heats up, the top of the atmosphere should get colder.

        "The prevailing theory and most plausible explanation is that CO2 buildup, at 50 miles above the surface, would cause the temperature decrease," Russell said. He cautioned, however, that temperature observations remain inconclusive.

        The global changes that appear to be reshaping noctilucent cloud distribution could be much more complex, said Vincent Wickwar, an atmospheric scientist at Utah State University whose team was first to report a mid-latitude noctilucent cloud in 2002. Temperature does not explain their observations from around 42 degrees latitude.

        "To get the noctilucent clouds you need temperatures that are about 20 degrees Kelvin colder than what we see on average up there," Wickwar said. "We may have effects from CO2 or methane but it would only be a degree or a fraction of a degree."

        Instead, Wickwar's explanation is that a vertical atmospheric wave discovered in their LIDAR data lowered the temperature in the region above their radar installation near Logan, Utah. But then you have to ask, he noted, "Where'd the wave come from?"

        They don't really have an answer yet. Other facilities around the world with similar LIDAR capacity haven't reported similar waves. And the Rocky Mountains, near Wickwar's lab, can cause atmospheric waves, which could be a special feature of his location.


        Other hypotheses abound to explain the observed changes in the clouds. Human-caused increases in atmospheric methane, which oxidizes into carbon dioxide and water vapor, could be providing more water for ice in the stratosphere. Increases in the amount of cosmic or terrestrial dust in the stratosphere could also increase the number of brightly shining clouds.

        Two years into Russell's NASA project, more questions exist than firm answers. They will have at least three and a half more years, though, to gather good data on upper atmospheric dynamics.

        The recent observations of noctilucent clouds at all kinds of latitudes provide an extra impetus to understand what is going on up there. Changes are occurring faster than scientists can understand their causes.

        "I suspect, as many of us feel, that it is global change, but I fear we don't understand it," Wickwar said. "It's not as simple as a temperature change."

        Image: 1. The sky over Omaha on July 14th, snapped by Mike Hollingshead at Extreme Instability 2. A rendering of the noctilucent clouds created from data obtained by Russel's NASA project, AIM. Video: NASA.

        WiSci 2.0: Alexis Madrigal's Twitter, Google Reader feed, and book site for The History of Our Future; Wired Science on Facebook.

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